What it means to be me in Corporate America?
Aisha Sarwari July 19, 2002
#49 Posted by ZafarA on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
Reply Roohi # 36
“What I don`t get (as usual) about this young person is the passion with which she dislikes being associated with India. Is it because she is in the media business and therefore has to deal all the time with the stereotyping of Pakistanis, promoting the Pakistani world view, their confusion with Indians etc. ? Or is this common to most Pakistanis ?”
Have a heart, jee, it’s not that dissimilar to the reactions Canadians have on being confused with Americans…And the Nepalis/Sri Lankans/Bangladeshis are not that thrilled when thought to be Bharatvaasis either, no…
“What I don`t get (as usual) about this young person is the passion with which she dislikes being associated with India. Is it because she is in the media business and therefore has to deal all the time with the stereotyping of Pakistanis, promoting the Pakistani world view, their confusion with Indians etc. ? Or is this common to most Pakistanis ?”
Have a heart, jee, it’s not that dissimilar to the reactions Canadians have on being confused with Americans…And the Nepalis/Sri Lankans/Bangladeshis are not that thrilled when thought to be Bharatvaasis either, no…
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#50 Posted by Lajwanti on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
Reply Umer Murtaza # 37
“Many of the replying posters are way past their sell-by-dates…”
What y ouare say, we are Christmas Cak, haiN? Ia mnot willingot be calling Christmas Cak, ok, Ia mnot Christain parson.
I am STALE JALAYBEE!!!!! Donot forgetting!
Thisi s finalwarn.
(Deepka is Christams Cak!!! Deepka I sbig jake.)
“Many of the replying posters are way past their sell-by-dates…”
What y ouare say, we are Christmas Cak, haiN? Ia mnot willingot be calling Christmas Cak, ok, Ia mnot Christain parson.
I am STALE JALAYBEE!!!!! Donot forgetting!
Thisi s finalwarn.
(Deepka is Christams Cak!!! Deepka I sbig jake.)
#51 Posted by Lajwanti on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
Reply Godot # 38
“I`m quite sure the author of this article is that ubiquitous 12-head. One can tell that by not only how poorly this article written, but its lack of focus on a central idea. Poor grammar, bad command of the English language, the content that makes no sense, and the clueless author: the hallmark of the 12-head.”
Godotbhai! Plzx!
“This article belongs in the garbage can. Its lack of intelligence should not offend anyone. It`s not worth a serious discussion.”
Ia m think you arebe ing litle unkindness, no? Ayeshga is onlys illy, shei snot nastiness like Deepka, a lsoshe is proper Muslimah, namazi, support Kashmira nd Filasteen, etc. Yoush ould be respact.
Don ot worrying Ayesha,m Godotbhai onlyi smaking jake. Keepon write, ok!!??
“I`m quite sure the author of this article is that ubiquitous 12-head. One can tell that by not only how poorly this article written, but its lack of focus on a central idea. Poor grammar, bad command of the English language, the content that makes no sense, and the clueless author: the hallmark of the 12-head.”
Godotbhai! Plzx!
“This article belongs in the garbage can. Its lack of intelligence should not offend anyone. It`s not worth a serious discussion.”
Ia m think you arebe ing litle unkindness, no? Ayeshga is onlys illy, shei snot nastiness like Deepka, a lsoshe is proper Muslimah, namazi, support Kashmira nd Filasteen, etc. Yoush ould be respact.
Don ot worrying Ayesha,m Godotbhai onlyi smaking jake. Keepon write, ok!!??
#52 Posted by jay on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
TALE OF TWO MEN,
Once up on a time long long ago an indian named Ganguly migrated to the US. He studied hard, worked hard and today is an expert on indian affairs in the US. Aysha reviles at his fame.
A few years after Ganguly migrated, a wealthy pakistani went to study at the London School of Ecnomics. After getting a masters degree, this man secured a job in Delhi for a british company. There he masterminded the abduction and murder of a few tourists. He was arrested and was serving prison term. Again usinh his skills managed to organise a hijacking and got himself freed as ransome. He returned to his home country where he masterminded the killing of an american reporter. Today he faces deathssentance. There are millions of pakistanis for whom this man is a hero. His name is Omar Sheikh.
In the value system of pakistan what he achieved is spectacular. His achievements are spectacul;ar compared to that of Ganguly who is known by less indians than Omar by the pakistanis.
Aysha not in touch with the reality of pakistan cannot wtite about the Omar, a true pak hero, instead slings mud at Ganguly. Aysha it time to accept the pak heros, makes connections to the true pak values. Bashing Ganguly cannot lead pakistan, praising Omar can.
Once up on a time long long ago an indian named Ganguly migrated to the US. He studied hard, worked hard and today is an expert on indian affairs in the US. Aysha reviles at his fame.
A few years after Ganguly migrated, a wealthy pakistani went to study at the London School of Ecnomics. After getting a masters degree, this man secured a job in Delhi for a british company. There he masterminded the abduction and murder of a few tourists. He was arrested and was serving prison term. Again usinh his skills managed to organise a hijacking and got himself freed as ransome. He returned to his home country where he masterminded the killing of an american reporter. Today he faces deathssentance. There are millions of pakistanis for whom this man is a hero. His name is Omar Sheikh.
In the value system of pakistan what he achieved is spectacular. His achievements are spectacul;ar compared to that of Ganguly who is known by less indians than Omar by the pakistanis.
Aysha not in touch with the reality of pakistan cannot wtite about the Omar, a true pak hero, instead slings mud at Ganguly. Aysha it time to accept the pak heros, makes connections to the true pak values. Bashing Ganguly cannot lead pakistan, praising Omar can.
#53 Posted by aicha on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
You obviously havent been stuck next to old people on a long-haul flight. They would be very interested in Junoon : ). Anyways Corporate America cares about only one thing - making money. It doesNT care about Pakistan or India or SriLanka. Which is ok and how it should be. Frankly can you differentiate between a person from Herzogovina and Bosnia? Can you tell who is from Mainland China or from Raiwan? Do you know where Bulgaria is? Do you know when they gained independance? Does it matter to you and me - not really!! So why label them only ignorant. Face it to them we are all - much as I hate to say it - brown sub-continental dwellers.
And on another note - this probably belongs elsewhere but - everyone must must see Leela. I have never seen such a wonderful/subtle/graceful movie. It was very well made.
And on another note - this probably belongs elsewhere but - everyone must must see Leela. I have never seen such a wonderful/subtle/graceful movie. It was very well made.
#54 Posted by shankar on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
UmerM
#37
Way to go pal! You new crop of 20 somethings Pakistani descent that has graced Chowk (though you yourself is a vetran), like Drumz , fawad & you are like a breath of fresh air.
You guys are willing to challenge the usual Indo-Pak hate propaganda & call a spade a spade. Its very nice to see young people who are fair & willing to question prejudice from both sides & think independantly.
There was a time when sarwari & ylh were the norm, not an exception. I didnt have a problem with them being proud, patriotic Pakis or muslims...but they always had to diss indians, no matter what the topic was.
Ylh, in particular, has this one-dimensional obssession how Jinnah was way better than Gandhi & how Pakistan is better than India. He is in total denial that both Jinnah & Gandhi are frikking anachronisms in their countries today. He just brushes it off with ``inshallah Pakistan will return to the true path of Jinnah``. Its no wonder why Indians loooved to provoke ylh & he would promptly oblige Chowk with his hysterical masterbations, which would then crescendo into a huge shower of ``come`` upon all of us...yuk!:)
Leaders of India & Pakistan constantly invoke the memories of their respective ``fathers-of-the-nation`` & then promptly take a crap on their vision. Truth be told, if Jinnah or Gandhi were alive today, they would happily opt to comit suicide, when they see the paths their respective nations are actually taking...
Sarwari is the female version of ylh...a tad bit more civil & mature, but has the same chip on her shoulder. It used to be so obvious, that Chowkies automatically became matchmakers because they thought as one entity.
Man, the two of them would make a great husband & wife team..the way they think & act....
#37
Way to go pal! You new crop of 20 somethings Pakistani descent that has graced Chowk (though you yourself is a vetran), like Drumz , fawad & you are like a breath of fresh air.
You guys are willing to challenge the usual Indo-Pak hate propaganda & call a spade a spade. Its very nice to see young people who are fair & willing to question prejudice from both sides & think independantly.
There was a time when sarwari & ylh were the norm, not an exception. I didnt have a problem with them being proud, patriotic Pakis or muslims...but they always had to diss indians, no matter what the topic was.
Ylh, in particular, has this one-dimensional obssession how Jinnah was way better than Gandhi & how Pakistan is better than India. He is in total denial that both Jinnah & Gandhi are frikking anachronisms in their countries today. He just brushes it off with ``inshallah Pakistan will return to the true path of Jinnah``. Its no wonder why Indians loooved to provoke ylh & he would promptly oblige Chowk with his hysterical masterbations, which would then crescendo into a huge shower of ``come`` upon all of us...yuk!:)
Leaders of India & Pakistan constantly invoke the memories of their respective ``fathers-of-the-nation`` & then promptly take a crap on their vision. Truth be told, if Jinnah or Gandhi were alive today, they would happily opt to comit suicide, when they see the paths their respective nations are actually taking...
Sarwari is the female version of ylh...a tad bit more civil & mature, but has the same chip on her shoulder. It used to be so obvious, that Chowkies automatically became matchmakers because they thought as one entity.
Man, the two of them would make a great husband & wife team..the way they think & act....
#55 Posted by Anika Zaidi on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
This is a perception of realities through a sensitive young impressionable & student of media advocacy lobbying & patriotism of A.F.S.
Look at the unanimous herd mentality of Hindians from Arjun_m to all inclusive Sadna have a knee jerk reaction of DENIAL ,perhaps even without reading the scathing each line of this article.When dont see even one dissenting voice i(metaphorically Eklavia is exception)among more than dozen hindians attack on Sarwari.....
I am but to conclude that the line is divided not on basis of truth & lies but Hindian `mera bharat mahan` childish slogans.I can invoke or rather provoke them to frenzy of emotional hyperbole, speaks of there irrational religousity enhanced by citizenry & madly fanatic patriotism
#56 Posted by Glen on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
[UP]
Militants seek Muslim-free India
Burhan Wazir reports from Gujarat on an explosion of violence, nationalism and Nazi-style politics and its result: 2,000 killed and 100,000 homeless
Observer Worldview
Sunday July 21, 2002
The Observer
At the elegantly simple home of Mahatma Gandhi in Ahmedabad, the bustling capital of Gujarat state, a museum eulogises his contribution to the founding of India. Gandhi`s clothes, books, journals and photographs line the walls. Outside in the freshly watered gardens the mango trees are in full bloom. One journal contains Gandhi`s simple denunciation of violence: `The science of war leads one to dictatorship. The science of non-violence alone can lead one to a pure democracy.`
More than 50 years after his death at the hands of a nationalist militant, Gandhi would find India unrecognisable. In the past five months his home state has been stunned by religious violence that shows few signs of fading.
India`s worst religious violence since the 1947 partition was sparked at the end of February when 57 Hindu pilgrims were killed in the alleged torching of a train carriage by Muslim militants in Godhra. Hindu militants sought a swift revenge.
Since then, massacres by Hindu gangs have become commonplace. In five months, more than 2,000 Muslims have been killed and more than 100,000 displaced, congregating in squalid camps around Gujarat.
The state is in turmoil. On Friday, only hours after the state`s top elected official, Chief Minister Narendra Modi, resigned and dissolved the legislative assembly to seek a fresh mandate, at least two people were killed and eight others injured when police opened fire to disperse rioting mobs. In recent months Mohdi had come under attack for his delayed response to the killings. His resignation was eclipsed, however, on Thursday when 70-year-old Muslim scientist Dr A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, an unrepentant nationalist and the father of India`s nuclear missile programme, was elected to the largely ceremonial role of President.
The violence has been linked to the rise of extremist Hindu groups such as the Association of National Volunteers, or the RSS - a khaki-clad nationalist paramilitary sect formed in the Twenties - and its offspring, the World Hindu Council, or the VHP.
Gujarat is one of the few states in India controlled by the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party. The state has been described as a `laboratory for Hindu fascism`. Since rising to power in the mid-Nineties, the BJP has aggressively pursued a pro-Hindu agenda.
It has also backed the construction of a temple in Ayodhya, where Hindu nationalists destroyed a mosque in 1992. Several members of the present Cabinet, including the Indian Deputy Prime Minister, L.K. Advani, were present at the demolition.
The RSS and the World Hindu Council, described locally as `Saffron Warriors`, have one clear aim: Hindu expansion by mass conversion. The militants believe that India was once an empire of 75 countries stretching from Cambodia to Iran.
They have introduced textbooks that convey former Hindu glories, and they propagate the myth of an India under siege from native Islamic militants. The RSS also lobbies to reintroduce the traditional names of cities like Mumbai, until recently Bombay.
`The situation is getting out of control,` says Arvind Sisodia, vice-president of the VHP in Gujarat. A passionate advocate of the Hindutva or `global Hindu conscious ness`, Sisodia is a middle-class worker at the Life Insurance Corporation of India.
`In Gujarat, the Muslims own all the shops; they are involved in illegal trade,` says Sisodia. `And Muslim boys steal our Hindu girls and marry them. So the situation is unbearable.`
In the days after the first killings in Gujarat, the VHP distributed leaflets asking Hindus to pledge a boycott of Muslims - including refusing to be taught by Muslim teachers and ensuring sisters and daughters did not fall into `the love-trap of Muslim boys`.
`It is up to all Hindus to make sure that we restore India to dominance,` says Sisodia. `Hinduism was once the dominant faith. Muslims have to learn to adapt. Otherwise, it will be dangerous for them. We don`t want them here.`
A few days after the deaths at Godhra, on a humid morning in an inner-city enclave of Ahmedabad, around 20 men marched up to the Indian flag and offered the Nazi salute. This was a training camp, or shakha, run by the RSS. There are about 40,000 camps scattered throughout India and informal ones abroad for expatriates.
The men, many of them in their thirties, are middle-class professionals - employees of Ahmedabad`s bustling industrial community. India`s middle classes are the keenest recruits to the RSS - drawn by fears of Islamic terrorism and of Westernisation amid a crumbling national economy.
In a fashionable Ahmedabad gated community lives Vijay Chauthaiwale, a microbiologist. Over lunch, with the World Cup playing on a satellite channel behind him, he explained his attraction to the RSS: `We are a very modern family,` he said, `but I feel that the more we move towards the West, the more likely we are to lose our Hindu values.
`Gandhi would not have understood,` he said. `He was an old-fashioned man with old-fashioned ideas. No one believes those things any more. The world has changed. And for Hindus to survive, we have to protect our culture and our way of life.`
For middle-class families such as Chauthaiwale`s, the Indian secular experiment has proved disastrous. The country`s Muslim population - now 11 per cent - is seen as a primary threat. `Where do the allegiances of the Muslims lie?` asked Kaushik Mehta, general secretary of the VHP in Gujarat.
He pointed to an enclave of Ahmedabad dubbed `mini-Pakistan` for its madrassahs, or Islamic schools. `We can`t allow such places to exist. They train terrorists. Muslims have to integrate. If they refuse to, we`ll be forced to make them. Or they can leave.`
For the 100,000 Muslims in squalid camps around Gujarat there is no such escape. In nearby Pakistan, India`s Muslims are viewed as traitors who betrayed Pakistan after partition. And now the Muslim camps are being shut down, casting their occupants into the streets and into the hands of Hindu extremists.
Most are fearful of returning to their villages. `They can`t go back because they face death threats,` said Father Cedric Prakash, director of Prashant, a human rights group in Ahmedabad. `The fanatics have all the power.`
More violence seems inevitable. At the end of February, Anjum Bana escaped her village in Panderwala with her six-week-old daughter. As Hindu militants torched the village, she hid in the forest. `There was nothing to eat or drink for three days,` she said. `I could hear people shouting RSS slogans all around me. And my child was dying. I know I can`t go back.`
The hawkish former Chief Minister of Gujarat, Narinder Mohdi, however, is unconvinced. In the early days of the rioting, as the body count escalated, Mohdi famously said Gujarat`s Hindus had shown `remarkable restraint`. Shortly before resigning on Friday, he said: `There is no problem with people returning back home. If they don`t want to go, they should be forced back. They have to go back.`
In a shabby camp in a graveyard in Ahmedabad, residents have taken to organising a night-time watch. `They know that once we are on the streets we are vulnerable. I can`t understand it. I have lived with Hindu neighbours for 40 years, and there have never been any problems. Now those same neighbours have turned on me. And no one will look after us.`
· Burhan Wazir presents `Unreported World: Saffron Warriors` on Channel 4 on Saturday at 7.40 pm.
The best global coverage
Observer Worldview
This week`s international news
The battle for India`s soul
09.06.2002: Luke Harding: Which way now for India?
03.03.2002: Gujarat riots: Police took part in slaughter
Kashmir crisis comment highlights
10.02.2002: Muzamil Jaleel: My lost country
02.06.2002: `The people suffer in a dispute they cannot control`
12.05.2002: Luke Harding: War at the top of the world
09.06.2002: John Butterworth: No panic in Bangalore
09.06.2002: Charles Glass: Have we learnt nothing from Rwanda?
02.06.2002: Arundhati Roy: Under the nuclear shadow
02.06.2002: Luke Harding in Delhi: The only question: when do you leave?
Jason Burke`s dispatch
09.06.2002: Kashmir dispatch: Here we go again ...
Worldview highlights: best of Jason Burke
Special reports
Observer Worldview
Special report: Kashmir
Special report: Pakistan
[UP]
Militants seek Muslim-free India
Burhan Wazir reports from Gujarat on an explosion of violence, nationalism and Nazi-style politics and its result: 2,000 killed and 100,000 homeless
Observer Worldview
Sunday July 21, 2002
The Observer
At the elegantly simple home of Mahatma Gandhi in Ahmedabad, the bustling capital of Gujarat state, a museum eulogises his contribution to the founding of India. Gandhi`s clothes, books, journals and photographs line the walls. Outside in the freshly watered gardens the mango trees are in full bloom. One journal contains Gandhi`s simple denunciation of violence: `The science of war leads one to dictatorship. The science of non-violence alone can lead one to a pure democracy.`
More than 50 years after his death at the hands of a nationalist militant, Gandhi would find India unrecognisable. In the past five months his home state has been stunned by religious violence that shows few signs of fading.
India`s worst religious violence since the 1947 partition was sparked at the end of February when 57 Hindu pilgrims were killed in the alleged torching of a train carriage by Muslim militants in Godhra. Hindu militants sought a swift revenge.
Since then, massacres by Hindu gangs have become commonplace. In five months, more than 2,000 Muslims have been killed and more than 100,000 displaced, congregating in squalid camps around Gujarat.
The state is in turmoil. On Friday, only hours after the state`s top elected official, Chief Minister Narendra Modi, resigned and dissolved the legislative assembly to seek a fresh mandate, at least two people were killed and eight others injured when police opened fire to disperse rioting mobs. In recent months Mohdi had come under attack for his delayed response to the killings. His resignation was eclipsed, however, on Thursday when 70-year-old Muslim scientist Dr A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, an unrepentant nationalist and the father of India`s nuclear missile programme, was elected to the largely ceremonial role of President.
The violence has been linked to the rise of extremist Hindu groups such as the Association of National Volunteers, or the RSS - a khaki-clad nationalist paramilitary sect formed in the Twenties - and its offspring, the World Hindu Council, or the VHP.
Gujarat is one of the few states in India controlled by the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party. The state has been described as a `laboratory for Hindu fascism`. Since rising to power in the mid-Nineties, the BJP has aggressively pursued a pro-Hindu agenda.
It has also backed the construction of a temple in Ayodhya, where Hindu nationalists destroyed a mosque in 1992. Several members of the present Cabinet, including the Indian Deputy Prime Minister, L.K. Advani, were present at the demolition.
The RSS and the World Hindu Council, described locally as `Saffron Warriors`, have one clear aim: Hindu expansion by mass conversion. The militants believe that India was once an empire of 75 countries stretching from Cambodia to Iran.
They have introduced textbooks that convey former Hindu glories, and they propagate the myth of an India under siege from native Islamic militants. The RSS also lobbies to reintroduce the traditional names of cities like Mumbai, until recently Bombay.
`The situation is getting out of control,` says Arvind Sisodia, vice-president of the VHP in Gujarat. A passionate advocate of the Hindutva or `global Hindu conscious ness`, Sisodia is a middle-class worker at the Life Insurance Corporation of India.
`In Gujarat, the Muslims own all the shops; they are involved in illegal trade,` says Sisodia. `And Muslim boys steal our Hindu girls and marry them. So the situation is unbearable.`
In the days after the first killings in Gujarat, the VHP distributed leaflets asking Hindus to pledge a boycott of Muslims - including refusing to be taught by Muslim teachers and ensuring sisters and daughters did not fall into `the love-trap of Muslim boys`.
`It is up to all Hindus to make sure that we restore India to dominance,` says Sisodia. `Hinduism was once the dominant faith. Muslims have to learn to adapt. Otherwise, it will be dangerous for them. We don`t want them here.`
A few days after the deaths at Godhra, on a humid morning in an inner-city enclave of Ahmedabad, around 20 men marched up to the Indian flag and offered the Nazi salute. This was a training camp, or shakha, run by the RSS. There are about 40,000 camps scattered throughout India and informal ones abroad for expatriates.
The men, many of them in their thirties, are middle-class professionals - employees of Ahmedabad`s bustling industrial community. India`s middle classes are the keenest recruits to the RSS - drawn by fears of Islamic terrorism and of Westernisation amid a crumbling national economy.
In a fashionable Ahmedabad gated community lives Vijay Chauthaiwale, a microbiologist. Over lunch, with the World Cup playing on a satellite channel behind him, he explained his attraction to the RSS: `We are a very modern family,` he said, `but I feel that the more we move towards the West, the more likely we are to lose our Hindu values.
`Gandhi would not have understood,` he said. `He was an old-fashioned man with old-fashioned ideas. No one believes those things any more. The world has changed. And for Hindus to survive, we have to protect our culture and our way of life.`
For middle-class families such as Chauthaiwale`s, the Indian secular experiment has proved disastrous. The country`s Muslim population - now 11 per cent - is seen as a primary threat. `Where do the allegiances of the Muslims lie?` asked Kaushik Mehta, general secretary of the VHP in Gujarat.
He pointed to an enclave of Ahmedabad dubbed `mini-Pakistan` for its madrassahs, or Islamic schools. `We can`t allow such places to exist. They train terrorists. Muslims have to integrate. If they refuse to, we`ll be forced to make them. Or they can leave.`
For the 100,000 Muslims in squalid camps around Gujarat there is no such escape. In nearby Pakistan, India`s Muslims are viewed as traitors who betrayed Pakistan after partition. And now the Muslim camps are being shut down, casting their occupants into the streets and into the hands of Hindu extremists.
Most are fearful of returning to their villages. `They can`t go back because they face death threats,` said Father Cedric Prakash, director of Prashant, a human rights group in Ahmedabad. `The fanatics have all the power.`
More violence seems inevitable. At the end of February, Anjum Bana escaped her village in Panderwala with her six-week-old daughter. As Hindu militants torched the village, she hid in the forest. `There was nothing to eat or drink for three days,` she said. `I could hear people shouting RSS slogans all around me. And my child was dying. I know I can`t go back.`
The hawkish former Chief Minister of Gujarat, Narinder Mohdi, however, is unconvinced. In the early days of the rioting, as the body count escalated, Mohdi famously said Gujarat`s Hindus had shown `remarkable restraint`. Shortly before resigning on Friday, he said: `There is no problem with people returning back home. If they don`t want to go, they should be forced back. They have to go back.`
In a shabby camp in a graveyard in Ahmedabad, residents have taken to organising a night-time watch. `They know that once we are on the streets we are vulnerable. I can`t understand it. I have lived with Hindu neighbours for 40 years, and there have never been any problems. Now those same neighbours have turned on me. And no one will look after us.`
· Burhan Wazir presents `Unreported World: Saffron Warriors` on Channel 4 on Saturday at 7.40 pm.
The best global coverage
Observer Worldview
This week`s international news
The battle for India`s soul
09.06.2002: Luke Harding: Which way now for India?
03.03.2002: Gujarat riots: Police took part in slaughter
Kashmir crisis comment highlights
10.02.2002: Muzamil Jaleel: My lost country
02.06.2002: `The people suffer in a dispute they cannot control`
12.05.2002: Luke Harding: War at the top of the world
09.06.2002: John Butterworth: No panic in Bangalore
09.06.2002: Charles Glass: Have we learnt nothing from Rwanda?
02.06.2002: Arundhati Roy: Under the nuclear shadow
02.06.2002: Luke Harding in Delhi: The only question: when do you leave?
Jason Burke`s dispatch
09.06.2002: Kashmir dispatch: Here we go again ...
Worldview highlights: best of Jason Burke
Special reports
Observer Worldview
Special report: Kashmir
Special report: Pakistan
[UP]
#57 Posted by arjun_m on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
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#58 Posted by arjun_m on July 22, 2002 2:25:56 pm
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#59 Posted by fawad79 on July 22, 2002 7:10:16 pm
umer ,
i agree totally. the key to life is live and let live. i think the best is to view all people as human beings........i have racism in me no doubt like when i see a paki girl and any nonpaki , im always thinking she couldnt get a paki guy but hey its not my problem and i shouldnt think that way!!! but i guess i dont want to be obsessed about india i just want to viewl them as people who are related and yet different from me who i can learn and be at peace with and yet still be me ............indians like shankar help who acknowledge our separate identity and are comfortable with it ..........i wish there were more indians like him ......
im heavily nationalistic like ylh he grew up in pakistan i didnt my little brother couldnt give a rat`s arse about the country i do for some reason i guess cuz its such a noble idea .......a country where principles not blood ties matter......where faith is the common bond not race.........thats the real reason i like pakistan and i read dawn every morning although i have never lived there......i dont know its something mystical yet so repulsive about pakistan .......its like a part of me but its not.........i dont know man im rambling
anyway i wish for peace and understanding between all south asians ........one day may there be a south asian union one day w/o visas and borders and hatred and riots and ideologies ,,,,,,,may the subcontinent achieve its destiny as a superpower ...........may be able to visist new delhi and say this is home may shankar be able to visit lahore and say this is home
anyway
peace
i agree totally. the key to life is live and let live. i think the best is to view all people as human beings........i have racism in me no doubt like when i see a paki girl and any nonpaki , im always thinking she couldnt get a paki guy but hey its not my problem and i shouldnt think that way!!! but i guess i dont want to be obsessed about india i just want to viewl them as people who are related and yet different from me who i can learn and be at peace with and yet still be me ............indians like shankar help who acknowledge our separate identity and are comfortable with it ..........i wish there were more indians like him ......
im heavily nationalistic like ylh he grew up in pakistan i didnt my little brother couldnt give a rat`s arse about the country i do for some reason i guess cuz its such a noble idea .......a country where principles not blood ties matter......where faith is the common bond not race.........thats the real reason i like pakistan and i read dawn every morning although i have never lived there......i dont know its something mystical yet so repulsive about pakistan .......its like a part of me but its not.........i dont know man im rambling
anyway i wish for peace and understanding between all south asians ........one day may there be a south asian union one day w/o visas and borders and hatred and riots and ideologies ,,,,,,,may the subcontinent achieve its destiny as a superpower ...........may be able to visist new delhi and say this is home may shankar be able to visit lahore and say this is home
anyway
peace
#60 Posted by pmishra2 on July 22, 2002 7:10:16 pm
Anika Zaidi #56
You are absolutely right. The indians are full of
[quote]
frenzy of emotional hyperbole, speaks of there irrational religousity enhanced by citizenry & madly fanatic patriotism
[end-quote]
This explains why only indians use islamic terms
as forms of denigration on this list. This also explains why indians are always whining and complaining about the ``other`` people getting ahead. After all these foolish indians do not realize that you have to pay your dues and work hard, sometimes even be treated less than fairly, before people will recognize your worth.
Stupid indians, no wonder they will never achieve anything or reach any higher goal.
You are absolutely right. The indians are full of
[quote]
frenzy of emotional hyperbole, speaks of there irrational religousity enhanced by citizenry & madly fanatic patriotism
[end-quote]
This explains why only indians use islamic terms
as forms of denigration on this list. This also explains why indians are always whining and complaining about the ``other`` people getting ahead. After all these foolish indians do not realize that you have to pay your dues and work hard, sometimes even be treated less than fairly, before people will recognize your worth.
Stupid indians, no wonder they will never achieve anything or reach any higher goal.
#61 Posted by roohi on July 22, 2002 7:10:16 pm
Zafar #50
``Have a heart, jee`` - if you say so, jee ...
Sounds like from Aishas recent comment that it was more of an emotional outburst in a moment of doubt and despair ... she has an ``indian friend`` as per the article after all ... so she can`t think we`re ALL bad (i hope).
``Have a heart, jee`` - if you say so, jee ...
Sounds like from Aishas recent comment that it was more of an emotional outburst in a moment of doubt and despair ... she has an ``indian friend`` as per the article after all ... so she can`t think we`re ALL bad (i hope).
#62 Posted by Bina on July 23, 2002 12:00:50 am
As I read these posts, it occurred to me that the tension and carping between India and Pakistan can be characterized as a case of sibling rivalry. India is the big brother or sister who had a head start of several years, is older, bigger, and somewhat of a bully to the younger sibling, Pakistan. Its talents and abilities already established, India also takes on the identity of the ``good child`` in order to win the approval and appreciation of its parents - Mai Baap? because of a general feeling of insecurity and jealousy upon the arrival of the younger sibling.
In the meanwhile, Pakistan, younger, scrawnier, has to resort to more extreme measures to attract the attention of its parents. It resents the monolith-type qualities of its older sibling and wants to desperately break away from the mold and establish a separate identity for itself. It plays the role of the rebel as it knows it can`t really supplant the role that the older sibling has already claimed for itself. It derives a great deal of satisfaction out of bugging and irritating the older sibling, who then goes running to Mom and Dad about how mean and bad the younger one is being.
Both siblings are intensely competitive with each other, almost obsessively so, and if they would just relax and chill out, each would realize that it has its own unique perspective and place in the world...
All this begs the question, ``When are the two children going to finally grow up and get out of the house?!!!!``
In the meanwhile, Pakistan, younger, scrawnier, has to resort to more extreme measures to attract the attention of its parents. It resents the monolith-type qualities of its older sibling and wants to desperately break away from the mold and establish a separate identity for itself. It plays the role of the rebel as it knows it can`t really supplant the role that the older sibling has already claimed for itself. It derives a great deal of satisfaction out of bugging and irritating the older sibling, who then goes running to Mom and Dad about how mean and bad the younger one is being.
Both siblings are intensely competitive with each other, almost obsessively so, and if they would just relax and chill out, each would realize that it has its own unique perspective and place in the world...
All this begs the question, ``When are the two children going to finally grow up and get out of the house?!!!!``
#63 Posted by sadna on July 23, 2002 1:32:01 am
Anika Zaidi #56
I forgot to mention the Time Asia cover stories on Pakistan and Musharraf which were published just last week.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020722/story.html
I forgot to mention the Time Asia cover stories on Pakistan and Musharraf which were published just last week.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020722/story.html
#64 Posted by shankar on July 23, 2002 2:53:04 pm
arjun_m,
For Pakistan to benefit from any of the riches from Central Asia, ESP natural gas, it has to make peace with India. Secondly, anybody investing money in a gas pipeline that runs through Afghanistan is taking one helluva risk.
Its easy to talk about building a pipeline. This pipeline, which carries inflammable gas, has to run through 1000s of miles of perhaps the most ``lawless`` rugged terrain, where the rule of the law depends upon the whims of the local warlord. Even without any military experience, I know its extremely easy to sabotage or blow such a pipeline. How the HELL can a consortium or country guard every INCH of this pipeline is BEYOND me?!
All someone has to do is to pay a local faction or a rival tribe. For the right price, they will only be too happy to blow it to smithereens. So not only does the consortium have to risk money in the cost of putting it up; but they will have to pay ``tax`` to every single warlord that pipeline traverses through, to ensure the gas will flow through it, without any interruptions.
This ``strategic depth`` in Afghanistan, to improve Pakistan`s economy is too risky a venture..if you ask me:(..probably a mirage..
For Pakistan to benefit from any of the riches from Central Asia, ESP natural gas, it has to make peace with India. Secondly, anybody investing money in a gas pipeline that runs through Afghanistan is taking one helluva risk.
Its easy to talk about building a pipeline. This pipeline, which carries inflammable gas, has to run through 1000s of miles of perhaps the most ``lawless`` rugged terrain, where the rule of the law depends upon the whims of the local warlord. Even without any military experience, I know its extremely easy to sabotage or blow such a pipeline. How the HELL can a consortium or country guard every INCH of this pipeline is BEYOND me?!
All someone has to do is to pay a local faction or a rival tribe. For the right price, they will only be too happy to blow it to smithereens. So not only does the consortium have to risk money in the cost of putting it up; but they will have to pay ``tax`` to every single warlord that pipeline traverses through, to ensure the gas will flow through it, without any interruptions.
This ``strategic depth`` in Afghanistan, to improve Pakistan`s economy is too risky a venture..if you ask me:(..probably a mirage..
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