The Good Wife

Ana, Hamid-ji,

Not only should you take pillows and a bistarbund, but trot along a few Details and Maxims mags with you...not only will you find ample proof of why Mrs. H- ``MS.`` to you-has more to offer than the oh so ingenues in clothing that just made it thru a paper shredder...and the staff writers are not rocket scientists either...gosh, I recently read an article about, Ana, get this, why its better for married men to frolic with sex workers than have affairs...I mean, it was just not even funny, witty, smart, soulful, but really reaching for the faux urbanity that these boy mags exude...my response? An article on What a Real Man Is...

Sac Sahib,

Methinks you wah! a bit overenthusiastically...pray tell how was Hamid Sahib`s post more well done than his more inspiring work on Pakistan and the mullahmonde?

And really, wasn`t the feminazi line a soupcon of gratuitous?

12 head

Jump in a lake. A cold one.

I believe the captain of the Titanic was also an athiest because he refused to accept that there was far more ice underneath the water than there was above it.

What was his excuse. `I couldn`t SEE anything.`

Umer M

Hey Arjun_m

Whats this Misoginy still going on .....

http://headlines.sify.com/popwin.html

MP woman burns herself on husband`s funeral pyre







New Delhi, Aug 7A 65-year-old woman burnt herself to death by sitting on her husband`s funeral and committing the centuries-old, but outlawed, custom of Sati, the Press Trust of India reported Tuesday.Two policemen had rushed to the village in Madhya Pradesh on hearing that the woman was about to commit Sati, but the locals threw stones at them and did not allow them to enter, the report said.The woman, Kuttu Bai, decided to kill herself on her husband Mallu Nai`s pyre after he died from a prolonged illness. Bai`s two grown-up sons did not make attempts to prevent their mother from sitting on their father`s funeral pyre, police said. Tamoli Patna village became deserted after the incident and police were unable to get further information. The last known incident of Sati was the death of 18-year-old Roop Kanwar, widow of Mal Singh, in the Rajasthan village of Deorala on September 4, 1987, which sparked national and international outrage. The police charged Sumer Singh, Mal Singh`s father, with forcing Roop Kanwar to sit on the pyre with her husband`s body as part of the outlawed Hindu rite. Pushpendra Singh, his other son, was accused of lighting the pyre in front of several people. Kanwar`s father-in-law and brother-in-law were both acquitted by an Indian court in October 1996.Following the Roop Kanwar case, India enacted federal legislation providing the death penalty for anyone abetting Sati.









©AFP 2000. All rights reserved. This material should not be published, broadcast, rewritten or distributed. All reproduction or redistribution is expressly forbidden without the prior written agreement of AFP.













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Hey Arjun_m

Whats this Misoginy still going on .....

http://headlines.sify.com/popwin.html

MP woman burns herself on husband`s funeral pyre



New Delhi, Aug 7A 65-year-old woman burnt herself to death by sitting on her husband`s funeral and committing the centuries-old, but outlawed, custom of Sati, the Press Trust of India reported Tuesday.Two policemen had rushed to the village in Madhya Pradesh on hearing that the woman was about to commit Sati, but the locals threw stones at them and did not allow them to enter, the report said.The woman, Kuttu Bai, decided to kill herself on her husband Mallu Nai`s pyre after he died from a prolonged illness. Bai`s two grown-up sons did not make attempts to prevent their mother from sitting on their father`s funeral pyre, police said. Tamoli Patna village became deserted after the incident and police were unable to get further information. The last known incident of Sati was the death of 18-year-old Roop Kanwar, widow of Mal Singh, in the Rajasthan village of Deorala on September 4, 1987, which sparked national and international outrage. The police charged Sumer Singh, Mal Singh`s father, with forcing Roop Kanwar to sit on the pyre with her husband`s body as part of the outlawed Hindu rite. Pushpendra Singh, his other son, was accused of lighting the pyre in front of several people. Kanwar`s father-in-law and brother-in-law were both acquitted by an Indian court in October 1996.Following the Roop Kanwar case, India enacted federal legislation providing the death penalty for anyone abetting Sati.

re. DRUMZ #74:

``Someone who thinks we`re here cuz adam ate an apple is in the same boat as someone who thinks the universe evolved outuva a exploded atom.``

hmmm.. are you making a case for a belief in a higher power/God here? Please elaborate if you`d like. Y`see when I tried using the First Cause argument with my five-year-old niece, she looked at me and asked ``yeah, but who made GOD?`` :)

The point, and MastRam if you`re lissening, is that God can not be argued rationally. Aprticular beleifs about this concept can be, and should be, but there are some matters that are just best left to faith. Oh, the kind of faith that does not fear reason and testing, that is. Ask hobbyty to elaborate.. i`m outta here fopr the next 48 hours.

rgds.

Bina,

Reading this (again)took me back to a story I read by Tahira Naqvi in her collection `Attar of Roses and other stories from Pakistan`. It`s about a woman whose husband gives her a notebook for the sole use of doing `hisaab-kitaab` for household money, and she chooses a cover for the notebook (not just that brown paper we had to use in school, but more colorful with a rose!), and prefers to write verses and stories rather than keep accounts, much to the outrage of her husband! I can`t remember the title of the story although I think it could just be called `The Notebook`. Have you read that by any chance?

Regards

DRUMZy:

re: Why do u think desi movies help maintain the status quo? (by putting ideal marriages out of reach for many people?)

--I`ve reconsidered my response to your view about `the natural longing to correct one of our most backward institutions` (am quoting from memory so forgive me if i`ve misquoted). What I meant by the status quo is that at the end of these movies (perhaps the older ones), the man`s authority..and the woman`s to continue against all odds to submit to such authority was what I understood to be the `status quo`. `Sahib, Bibi aur Ghulam.` to me, has a twist, in that the wife, in order for her husband to love her transforms completely to get his attention (and she hopes, his love), which she thinks he does..only to be killed by him in the end. And KKKG..that scene that I told you about on the other board--brings about a change in the husband, where she has always submitted to her husband`s authority without question in spite of all the pain she`s endured..until she decides she cannot remain silent anymore. So in that sense you are right..there are movies in which that longing to correct the `backwardness` of the institution of marriage is there.

In most if not all of NDN movies..it seems that there is little if any room for the single woman, the independent progressive single woman, because even if one exists, a story develops where marriage is the ultimate that one must reach. According to whom?!? Why is it that when a single woman in her late thirties tells a desi male or female that she is still single, that remark is either responded to derisively or with total disbelief? And before I`m told that this could apply to men as well, I`m sure it does, but I`m writing from the female perspective. This is perhaps what I was referring to as well! Peace and luv!

PM

[wouldn`t you think that the old give-and-take our parents` generations believed in is a sensible and even ennobling way? And puhleez, don`t anyone tell me it was all give on one side and all take on the other!]

--ok, how about if it was more give on one side and more take on the other???!!! or less give on one side and less take on the other, or any number of combinations...and how does that Beatles tune go, `and in the end the love you make is equal to the love you take...`

tahmed--If your marriage has remained successful according to your guidelines (drum roll!), then more power to you..or should I say Mrs. Ahmed?!?!

hamidm--Not only should you take a few extra pillows, but perhaps a `bistarband` just in case its not the couch but the porch!!!

DRUMZy--there are always exceptions to the antithesis, but you know that :). I`ll get to your answer about the status quo in a little bit, promise! Must away for now!

ISLAMABAD (SANA): Former prime minister and the chairperson of Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), Benazir Bhutto, is likely to return to Pakistan on September 6, the Radio Tehran reported.Quoting the party sources the radio reported that PPP chairperson Benazir Bhutto has issued directives to the concerned party officials for finalization of arrangements for her homecoming.

Sources close to Benazir Bhutto said that she has decided to return home during the first week of September instead of August 14 because no schedule for elections has been announced by the military government, the Radio Tehran reported.

Declaring the September 6 as the most appropriate time for Bhutto’s return, her party sources said that thousands of party workers will welcome her at Lahore airport where she will be also be accompanied by foreign media personnel, the radio reported``

Patrick: I am glad that you agree the pitfalls of old concept of rewarding god for good deeds in this life or afterlife. Is this really old? Just look around and see how many people are doing things including killing themselves for the sake of getting a rain check – to be cashed in after the collapse of the universe.

Then you moved on to say that what is being exchanged is energy and not matter. Is there any difference? Both matter and energy are interchangeable according to E=MC[ exp 2] as well as the particle and wave nature of light according to Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle. I have no problem with calling it energy as long as you agree the interchangeability into matter.

All right! We are part of the same energy being recycled through exchange between everything animate or inanimate. Since new concepts of god often refers to him as the underlying energy of all matter forms instead of old concept of god being source of all energy/ matter and thus creator of everything. The problem is that energy has certain fixed properties, which do not change with time. Energy has been obeying certain laws of nature. The social, moral, ethical and religious changes of the last few thousand years have not changed the properties of energy. No reason to change the concept of god, if he is underlying ultimate energy.

We can think of most recent concepts of god, particularly without the constraint of religions and theologies. There are basically two points of view. One, “god is within everything” and the other, “god is everything”. Both of these statements make god earthier than sky-god of the past. What I said was no different than, god is everything” except I used the term “self”. I do not see much difference in choosing a name for the reality of matter or energy. However, most would not like to say, “I am god”, for being part of same energy whereas I can simply look outside window and around myself and say, “I am”. It is me everywhere and I love it. Even after physical death, my matter or energy will be definitely conserved – thanks to gravity.

Another issue you might ponder when stating, “old or obsolete concept of god” is the rejection of old concept according to Moses, Jesus and Mohammed. I am sure, you would not like to discredit them for sticking to old in olden times and promising rewards through their special relationship with god.

More than half the population of the world believes in god; more than half the adult male population of the world smokes cigarettes too. The number of believers in itself is not a proof of his existence or goodness. It is the result of mostly Islamic and Christian colonialism. The might, coercion, propaganda, marketing, commercialism, advertisement, cheating, trickery and reward have gone into creating a self-propelled momentum for him. Neither Moses, Jesus or Mohammed planned to force the world to follow them and neither did Ray Croc and Sam Walton planned to make McDonalds and Wal-Mart stores to be what they are now, respectively. The conditions for growth are sometimes natural and other times created, by all means. The concept for which, some people like to sweat now, was not powerful enough even in its original and pure form to even impress the neighbors of god’s chosen ones. And what will be left of even the original, if the history associated with it turns out to be myths or fake, as Drumz has cleverly hinted in his post?

I agree that as the world changes, so does the concept of god. Then who is more powerful? The one who forces the other to change is technically more powerful. The changing concepts of god are at the mercy of changes taking place all around us in which scientific and technological developments are playing major roles. Moreover, change in the concept of god is illogical if he is underlying energy of the universe because the properties of energy are fixed and what will be the matter form of this energy. I guess, Hinduism and Idol worshipping is making more sense here because you can see god(s) in their temples as made up of matter.

God is a concept that requires heavy marketing for people to accept it. That is not the quality of inherently great concept. Compare that with democracy, modern medicine, modern communication systems etc. It is more like Coca-Cola or McDonald’s Hamburgers, requiring constant promotions. Counter-marketing against it is equally powerful. The communist China is very successful to thwart the concept of god from gaining converts through counter-marketing. But non-believers are not that powerful or interested in challenging god.

Drumz: Thanks! Good points.

re hamidm #94:

That was brilliant. Ample reward after sifting through self-styled prophets, rationality challenged feminazis and the usual horde of blood seeking cyber-warriors.

Thank you sir.

later

-sac

re: tahmed #95

...dude, i`m not trying to drag your ass to rationality...you`re free to believe what you like...keep on doing whatever you`re doing, and your concorde ticket to heaven will be reserved...

May I ask you how I am expected to let Hamid and Tahmed`s remarks escape uncommented on? Good Goddess, what is a woman to do?

Tahmed,

Are our ears like elephants? How so? I was thinking our ears are more like bobcat`s ears, and I`d pass on what Mr. S said about bobcats, but it was only the other day, and it seems to be far from me....Anyhoo, Mr. S and I were lost driving back from Massachusetts the other day, and he got lost...now, I had been warned that while men and women often lose their ways around highways, it seems to be a big issue of denial with men, i.e. ``I`m not lost. I know where I`m going.`` So that happened, only I couldn`t tell what the hell was going on in Mr. S`s normally brilliant neurons and brain cells, so I asked him if he`d like some lemonade, and, didn`t he think it was time to look into a proper exercise program? Well, he got more vexed, and since I had no idea why, I looked out the window and fell asleep...

Hamid,

Mrs. Hamid? Old rubber boots? Better take a few pillows with you on the way to the couch:)

re. DRUMZ:

[[

PM: ``Hey, las time I checked Roman history, there was a certain character named Jesus (well, translated) who lived circa 20 A.D. But what do I know!?!``

TRANSLATED??? Maybe u should recheck his-story before lecturing others.

]]

Last time I checked, the only HISTORICAL reference to the charachter known as Jesus was by the historian Josephus (sp?), who made refernce to a certain `Christus`. If you know better, please inform.

Er.. who`s preaching?

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re tahmed #95

Richard Dawkins answers the points raised by you quite well.

``It is often said, mainly by the ``no-contests``, that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic.

At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal`s wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can`t prove that there aren`t any, so shouldn`t we be agnostic with respect to fairies?

The trouble with the agnostic argument is that it can be applied to anything. There is an infinite number of hypothetical beliefs we could hold which we can`t positively disprove. On the whole, people don`t believe in most of them, such as fairies, unicorns, dragons, Father Christmas, and so on. But on the whole they do believe in a creator God, together with whatever particular baggage goes with the religion of their parents.``

Full essay at

http://www.world-of-dawkins.com/Dawkins/Work/Articles/1994-12religion.htm