Umair Raja and Omer Rafique July 31, 2002
#16 Posted by Akash on August 3, 2002 9:19:41 pm
Temporal#13
``aishwariya if not mauriya or ashoka?:)``
How many times Pakistanis on Chowk need to be told that it is ``Aishwarya`` and NOT ``Aishwariya``. And it is ``Maurya`` and NOT ``Mauriya``.
``aishwariya if not mauriya or ashoka?:)``
How many times Pakistanis on Chowk need to be told that it is ``Aishwarya`` and NOT ``Aishwariya``. And it is ``Maurya`` and NOT ``Mauriya``.
#15 Posted by Rafique on August 3, 2002 9:19:41 pm
---MastRam 11. Thanks for the link.....I was amazed by the number of books Clancy has been turning out lately. Now I know how he does it. This is also why the standard of these books is not upto par. I guess authoring is big business now.... There is an Op Center book called, ``Line of Control`` on India-Pak issues that I am currently reading.
---Raw_Dust 12. I can see how this could be confusing since fiction and reality are almost antonyms..... What I mean is that I do not like fiction that is completely based on imagination, like science fiction or books that base everything on major events that have yet to occur and have little chance of occuring.
---temporal 13. Thanks for the suggestions.....Following are my reasons for the wordings:....Squadron insgnias are considered unofficial parts of the cover all flying suits. Hence they are normally stitched. Apart from the insignias pilots usually place different optional patches on their cover-alls. These include items like the Pakistani flag or insignia of the aircraft they are flying. Since these change depending on the mood of the pilot they are usually velcroed so one can be replaced by the other....All squadron names in the PAF are read and written in this specific order, i.e. no. such and such squadron. The correct designation should actually be no. 32 Squadron, The Fighting Eagles....INS Gorshkov is the actual name of a Russian aircraft carrier that India has been evaluating. As far as I know India has not inducted it into its naval fleet yet so it has not received an Indian name yet. Perhaps I could replace it with INS Vikrant (originally HMS Hercules), which is an aircraft carrier currently in the Indian fleet.....Detailed descriptions are a matter of preference. I think it is important in the begining to give them since it establishes the author`s knowledge of the subject (assuming the descriptions are correct). As the book progresses they can be reduced.
---Raw_Dust 12. I can see how this could be confusing since fiction and reality are almost antonyms..... What I mean is that I do not like fiction that is completely based on imagination, like science fiction or books that base everything on major events that have yet to occur and have little chance of occuring.
---temporal 13. Thanks for the suggestions.....Following are my reasons for the wordings:....Squadron insgnias are considered unofficial parts of the cover all flying suits. Hence they are normally stitched. Apart from the insignias pilots usually place different optional patches on their cover-alls. These include items like the Pakistani flag or insignia of the aircraft they are flying. Since these change depending on the mood of the pilot they are usually velcroed so one can be replaced by the other....All squadron names in the PAF are read and written in this specific order, i.e. no. such and such squadron. The correct designation should actually be no. 32 Squadron, The Fighting Eagles....INS Gorshkov is the actual name of a Russian aircraft carrier that India has been evaluating. As far as I know India has not inducted it into its naval fleet yet so it has not received an Indian name yet. Perhaps I could replace it with INS Vikrant (originally HMS Hercules), which is an aircraft carrier currently in the Indian fleet.....Detailed descriptions are a matter of preference. I think it is important in the begining to give them since it establishes the author`s knowledge of the subject (assuming the descriptions are correct). As the book progresses they can be reduced.
#14 Posted by Ras Siddiqui on August 3, 2002 1:19:21 pm
A good read.
Keep up the tempo CHOWK Editors!
Ras
#13 Posted by temporal on August 2, 2002 10:42:28 pm
Umair & Omer:
[...with the squadron insignia sewn onto its right sleeve and a small Pakistani flag velcroed onto the left sleeve...]
insginia is sticthed...and the flag is velcroed? velcro is something that can be fixed or positioned and locked and removed...i chuckled when i read this...so the pilot can remove the green star and crescent and fix stars and stripes or any other flag before the next sortie?:)
[...belonging to the no. 32 Fighting Eagles squadron...]
drop `no.`...it read well without...
[...The PNS Multan had been posing as the Indian aircraft carrier INS Gorshkov...]
...why a russian name?...pick some indian version of `Ghori` :)...and if you cannot imagine why surely you are familiar with madhuri, aishwariya if not mauriya or ashoka?:)
...the detailed descriptions look bad in this chapter but would be ok if not over done in the novel...
rgds,
t
[...with the squadron insignia sewn onto its right sleeve and a small Pakistani flag velcroed onto the left sleeve...]
insginia is sticthed...and the flag is velcroed? velcro is something that can be fixed or positioned and locked and removed...i chuckled when i read this...so the pilot can remove the green star and crescent and fix stars and stripes or any other flag before the next sortie?:)
[...belonging to the no. 32 Fighting Eagles squadron...]
drop `no.`...it read well without...
[...The PNS Multan had been posing as the Indian aircraft carrier INS Gorshkov...]
...why a russian name?...pick some indian version of `Ghori` :)...and if you cannot imagine why surely you are familiar with madhuri, aishwariya if not mauriya or ashoka?:)
...the detailed descriptions look bad in this chapter but would be ok if not over done in the novel...
rgds,
t
#12 Posted by Raw_Dust on August 2, 2002 3:17:02 pm
`` I like fiction that is tightly bound to reality.
Something that hasn`t happened, but could easily happen. ``
What?
Something that hasn`t happened, but could easily happen. ``
What?
#11 Posted by mastram on August 2, 2002 3:17:02 pm
re Rafique #10
Clancy apparently doesn`t write all the details himself.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53078-2002Jul23.html
Clancy apparently doesn`t write all the details himself.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53078-2002Jul23.html
#10 Posted by Rafique on August 2, 2002 2:00:57 pm
Banjaara 6.... I will take your remark as a compliment, since I am neither a novelist nor a fiction writer, by profession nor by education......
Thanks for pointing out the Persian phrase. Now you know why I do not write in Urdu or Persian.....
Raw_Dust 7.... I like fiction that is tightly bound to reality. Something that hasn`t happened, but could easily happen. The kind of fiction that Larry Collins and Dominique Lapiere write. Their fiction is based more on tying fictional historical stories within factual circumstances. Mine is more of a current day attempt......
Pankaj 8..... I will submit Chapter 5, in a week or two. Let`s see if it makes it.......
semipreciousme 9. I agree it is too detailed. I, myself, prefer thrillers that concentrate on the abstract plot, and leave the details to the imagination of the reader, as sac has mentioned.
But, Clancy seems to have turned this concept on its head. He has simple plots, and spends all his time on details, down to the size of the bullets. One feels he could write his books with half the pages, if he skipped the details. But they outsell everyone, including writers like Ludlum, who concentrate more on the plot and characters.
I have discovered it is much easier to write chapters, if one describes the details. It is much more difficult to fill the pages if one just concentrates on the abstractions of the plot. I will attempt to describe the details when it comes to characters and armament, and concentrate on the plot, in all other situations.....
How does that sound?....
I have never been to Delhi, Riyadh or Israel, so I would welcome the highlighting of any errors in relation to these three areas (or any other areas, for that matter), like replacing cashews with pistachios, and Rajputana Rifles with the Rajput Regiment. So far we have had a lot of input from the Delhiwallas, but none from the Riyadhwallas and Israelwallas.....
Thanks for pointing out the Persian phrase. Now you know why I do not write in Urdu or Persian.....
Raw_Dust 7.... I like fiction that is tightly bound to reality. Something that hasn`t happened, but could easily happen. The kind of fiction that Larry Collins and Dominique Lapiere write. Their fiction is based more on tying fictional historical stories within factual circumstances. Mine is more of a current day attempt......
Pankaj 8..... I will submit Chapter 5, in a week or two. Let`s see if it makes it.......
semipreciousme 9. I agree it is too detailed. I, myself, prefer thrillers that concentrate on the abstract plot, and leave the details to the imagination of the reader, as sac has mentioned.
But, Clancy seems to have turned this concept on its head. He has simple plots, and spends all his time on details, down to the size of the bullets. One feels he could write his books with half the pages, if he skipped the details. But they outsell everyone, including writers like Ludlum, who concentrate more on the plot and characters.
I have discovered it is much easier to write chapters, if one describes the details. It is much more difficult to fill the pages if one just concentrates on the abstractions of the plot. I will attempt to describe the details when it comes to characters and armament, and concentrate on the plot, in all other situations.....
How does that sound?....
I have never been to Delhi, Riyadh or Israel, so I would welcome the highlighting of any errors in relation to these three areas (or any other areas, for that matter), like replacing cashews with pistachios, and Rajputana Rifles with the Rajput Regiment. So far we have had a lot of input from the Delhiwallas, but none from the Riyadhwallas and Israelwallas.....
#9 Posted by semipreciousme on August 2, 2002 12:23:47 am
...a little heavy on the technical details, but a pretty interesting read nonetheless...
#8 Posted by Pankaj on August 2, 2002 12:23:47 am
This part keeps my interest in the story alive. Someone should tell Chowk staff to post the remaining parts of the novel at regular intervals without much delay.
#7 Posted by Raw_Dust on August 1, 2002 5:38:41 pm
Re :Banjaara
Fiction is the key word in your reply (the way i see it).
Can we even call this a piece of fiction (in the literary sense of the word) in the first place?
Fiction is the key word in your reply (the way i see it).
Can we even call this a piece of fiction (in the literary sense of the word) in the first place?
#6 Posted by Banjaara on August 1, 2002 4:39:25 pm
Rafique # 5
``Dair aaye, darust aaye.....``
This common mistake is acceptable from the ordinary interactors but not from a novelist/
fiction writer.It is a Persian phrase which is :-
`` Dair aayed, durust aayed``.
Regards.
``Dair aaye, darust aaye.....``
This common mistake is acceptable from the ordinary interactors but not from a novelist/
fiction writer.It is a Persian phrase which is :-
`` Dair aayed, durust aayed``.
Regards.
#5 Posted by Rafique on August 1, 2002 2:54:14 pm
I would like to thank the Chowk editors for publishing Chapter 4....
Suborto 1. I sent this piece in months ago.....
I thought Chowk had decided not to print it. I am surprised it showed up. Dair aaye, darust aaye.....
Thank you for the information about the cashews. They will be changed to pistachios in the final copy.
hobbytv 2. I am working on Chapter 5 and 6. You will have to convince Chowk staff to publish it......
sac 3. You are correct is saying there is a lot of detail. That is deliberate. Ludlum and Forsyth leave a lot to the people`s imagination. But lately, Clancy seems to have become more popular. And the characteristics of Clancy`s writing that stand out, are the almost painful and excruciating details in which he describes each armament system.....
I am trying to follow the Clancy school of thought, since he seems to be selling more than Ludlum and Co......
mithuna 4. Your reference to Mohsin Hamid is absolutely correct. I have never heard of a better class separation definition of Pakistanis, than the, ``air-conditioned`` and the, ``non air-conditioned``.....
I am assuming it applies to Indians also.....
Suborto 1. I sent this piece in months ago.....
I thought Chowk had decided not to print it. I am surprised it showed up. Dair aaye, darust aaye.....
Thank you for the information about the cashews. They will be changed to pistachios in the final copy.
hobbytv 2. I am working on Chapter 5 and 6. You will have to convince Chowk staff to publish it......
sac 3. You are correct is saying there is a lot of detail. That is deliberate. Ludlum and Forsyth leave a lot to the people`s imagination. But lately, Clancy seems to have become more popular. And the characteristics of Clancy`s writing that stand out, are the almost painful and excruciating details in which he describes each armament system.....
I am trying to follow the Clancy school of thought, since he seems to be selling more than Ludlum and Co......
mithuna 4. Your reference to Mohsin Hamid is absolutely correct. I have never heard of a better class separation definition of Pakistanis, than the, ``air-conditioned`` and the, ``non air-conditioned``.....
I am assuming it applies to Indians also.....
#4 Posted by mithuna on August 1, 2002 1:36:53 pm
Subroto, about the ``as air-conditioned`` phrase... the author seem to be using a concept enunciated by the character Professor Julius Superb from Mohsin Hamid`s ``Moth Smoke``. You can find the full review of the book by Ras Siddiqui by searching for ``moth smoke`` on Chowk. Here`s the operative part:
{{``There are two social classes in Pakistan.`` Professor Superb said to his unsuspecting audience, gripping the podium with both hands as he spoke. ``The first group, large and sweaty, contains those referred to as the masses. The second group is much smaller, but its members exercise vastly greater control over their immediate environment and are collectively termed the elite. The distinction between the two groups is made on the basis of control of an important resource: air-conditioning.``
...
``You see Mumtaz was over-air-conditioned and longed to be uncooled, while Darashikoh was under-air-conditioned and longed to be cooled.``
}}
{{``There are two social classes in Pakistan.`` Professor Superb said to his unsuspecting audience, gripping the podium with both hands as he spoke. ``The first group, large and sweaty, contains those referred to as the masses. The second group is much smaller, but its members exercise vastly greater control over their immediate environment and are collectively termed the elite. The distinction between the two groups is made on the basis of control of an important resource: air-conditioning.``
...
``You see Mumtaz was over-air-conditioned and longed to be uncooled, while Darashikoh was under-air-conditioned and longed to be cooled.``
}}
#3 Posted by sac on August 1, 2002 12:19:37 pm
The narrative delves in way too many details. So much so that it can get a little jarring after a while. Maybe if various chapters were read one after the other the effect would be different.
It is a laudable attempt at some homegrown Ludlum or Clancy but the author(s) seem too concerned with minutae to realize that it is a work of fiction they are creating not some historical document. At some point the reader`s imagination has to be allowed to take over and create his/her own fantasy while he/she is reading it.
later
-sac
It is a laudable attempt at some homegrown Ludlum or Clancy but the author(s) seem too concerned with minutae to realize that it is a work of fiction they are creating not some historical document. At some point the reader`s imagination has to be allowed to take over and create his/her own fantasy while he/she is reading it.
later
-sac
#1 Posted by subroto on August 1, 2002 12:19:37 pm
Finally the wait for chapter 4 is over. As usual a good read but I don`t want that long a wait for chapter 5 please. Just a few minor quibbles, one of them being - ``he was as wealthy, as good looking, as sophisticated and as air-conditioned as any of the occupants of the lounge.``. As ``air-conditioned``? The possiblities to take-off on this are endless but I shall refrain.
Also I thought cashewnuts are generally exported from India not imported (40% of the world production), now if you had said pistachios thats another matter.
Also I thought cashewnuts are generally exported from India not imported (40% of the world production), now if you had said pistachios thats another matter.
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