What Went Wrong With Devdas

# 11 and 12

Amit and Maulvi Madani,

Actually one of the Muslim countries DOES make very very good movies. It`s IRAN. A new crop of Iranian directors: Makhmalbaf, Kiarostami, etc. are doing as good as Ray or Kurosawa. They`re quite famous now. Unfortunately Maulvi sahab, their movies always carry a subtle message of protest against the Islamic regime.

scout: ``you are a total fake idiot. NO ONE tells their kids to watch Pakistani movies....absolutely NO ONE.``

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Re:ahmed madani#11

Mianji, don`t feel so bad about this. The entire world is hooked on hindi movies, including your Central Asian republics. If you don`t believe me, check out the streets of Kabul. In fact people in UK, Russia and even USA are watching hindi movies.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, you guys are more addicted to it than even us Indians. I have Pakistani friends whose knowledge on hindi movies puts me to shame. Heck, your gangsters sitting in Karachi are funding our hindi movies and our proud manly punjabi heroes are constantly making calls to Karachi to get their blessings. So, consider it as a joint Indo-Pak venture and if it makes you feel better, call it urdu movies from India.

Why this lafagebazi of hindus and hindi movies. Why we pakistanies be worried about what happens to devdas a christian (was he son of M.K.Gandhi?)was he not drunkard became muslim abdulla gandhi to marry second wife with out law problems and jinnah`s daughter abandoned islam to become parsee. I am full of Indians and their moves , tired of them. Even my daughters brought devdas video and watch them. The dresses are good and movies is bogus any way. We are nation related to central asia . We are member and belong to central muslic republics of `Stans` and we are largest stan with population.

Already we are celebrating basant, our marriages are pucca huindu style , now we have even castes damn it. First we have to grow out of shadows of india and here this this hindu wants muslims get interested in hindi movies what a farce of 50 years from some where to no where land. Unless we keep india out out of site it will not go out of mind. Chowk is mag for mostly foren return or living expak pakistan lovers. Why not discuss moves from cental asian Islamic republic. Somes times i feel all this journey is for nothing if we have to discuss indian movies. What about horse and camel games of cental muslim comnwealth. why we avoid or shun or disparage all islamic and pick all hindu stuff in movies. Its all lafangebazi. Now pakistan video market is dominated by in english language by american xxx movies and family oriented movies by all stupid hindu indian movies. Even if muslims are in indian movies i want them to shut up. Either they should come permanantly to pakistan or shut up marketing in pakistan. Even army brats are putting indian movie songs and educated listening to Indian classical music. It idealogical struggle not music i am against. Why not movies, songs, stories artist from central Muslim democracies and republics is question. I hope this Punjabi hindu Munda stops peddling hindu stuff here. Please all patriotic people think by buying indian movies they are supporting so many indians working. Boycott them and let them suffer or they should buy our balouchi, sindhi and punjabi movies. What about our sister country of bangla desh they are people with culture just like india. By bangla movies, they have sexi actresses why not?

I heard some pak muslim of pakistan is going to teach indian movies course and pakis in ny want to study this course why are we obsessed with india. Are we in love with india when we should be getting ready for final knockout blow to hindu india. Its all lafangebazi, note we idealogical state not like india. See punjab and sindh had been there all time but pakistan is new and it should dominate. Why gentleman from new york do not teach sindhi culture class because we feel only urdu is culture and sindhi and punjabi is donkey agriculture. I must admit my punjabi mentaly and culturally retard leadership is so bankrupt that `they` send their children to english and urdu school but not punjabi as these mentally retard feudals dark ages monkeys think punjabi is not good language. They use urdu in assembly , they are retards creating confusion in minds of evolution monkey to man theory. Again let me remand all muslims to shun and avoid indian movies as then you are feeding snake who is going to bite you and kill.

Mr. Arora you are coward who ran to india from pakistan. Please do not give forn reference it does not impress Madani. Good luck

Anil,

I will buck the trend and say that I actually liked Devdas. The movie has an operatic flavor, which is quite unique by hindi movie standards. We desis are always complaining that hindi movies are trashy, yet when someone goes outside the box, we do not like it. The movie held my interest, the music was fabulous and you can feel the enormous care that has been taken to make this movie.

I don`t know what the critics wanted Bhansali to do. Surely he could not recreate 18th century Bengal on screen. Who would want to see a hindi movie like that ? If he acually did that, then the critics would criticize him that his Devdas is no different from the ones made in the past !!

tahafahim #2, `` I forbid my children from watching any films. If they watch they can watch Pakistani films.``

you are a total fake idiot. NO ONE tells their kids to watch Pakistani movies....absolutely NO ONE.

t

no garam hawa.

sathyu does not return borrowed books.

aakar

I can`t say I follow the author`s ideas on what poetry ought to be (cf. ana); however I did watch the movie and it didnt work for me at all.

most of the money apparently went on the sets and the costumes and the stars. for some reason its pretty hard to achieve suspension of disbelief when the main actor is SRK. Maybe its not his fault. oh well.. Lagaan was a whole better yarn.. you couldnt say it was boring (which devdas was)

Temporal..er..ouch..temporal :)

thank you for pulling that out from the dusty archives!!!! `twas a pleasure..

pata kya..my bade maamoo was a big movie buff..and one time he and his fairly new son-in-law (finally introduced...) were talking about Indian movies he used to see as a child (i think maamoo is in his 70`s now), and his son-in-law was commenting on how he had seen the same movies, and agreeing on how great they were...and this is when we all discovered just how old the newly introduced addition to the family was!!!

I would be hard pressed to compare an Indian classic with La Dolce Vita, or Satyricon, or La Belle et La Bete, or Cyrano de Bergerac, or The Hairdresser`s Husband as well...and I`m not even sure a comparison should be made :)

[Am torn ...... between Garam Hawa, Kaghaz ke Phool, Mother India, Sahib, Bibi aur Ghulam, Umrao Jaan Ada and Mughal-e-Azam.

Help!]

No help from my end...none whatsoever! What the `ell, no need to be torn..put yourself together again, and rank them altogether :). Although my little voice keeps telling me, `Sahib, Bibi aur Ghulam`...

And I close with a few lines from a movie from the list..I wrote this in a post to dost-mittar as well..

Aaj phir jeenay ki tammana hai

Aaj phir marnay ka irada hai

love, a.

ana #1:


[…the one scene where the cameraman is filming Waheeda Rehman, and the shadows..lovely! And when the song `Waqt ne kiya, kya haseen sitam, tum rahe na tum, hum rahe na hum` comes on..they stand at such a distance from each other, and that technical feat, as if their spirits move towards one another and embrace each other, and yet, they are still standing at that distance...poignant.. For me it still conveyed such a poetic sense…]

---this reminded me of this from chowk archives…
__________________________________________________

WAQT NE KIYA KYA HASEEN SITAM...

Ah the magic of movies, bioscopes as they were called in the early days of the silent movies. There were traveling ‘companies’ that would roam from village to village, propping up white bed sheets for a screen. A ‘mushki’ (water-carrier) stationed himself behind the screen. In the sultry summer heat the screen was liable to catch fire. His job was to moisten the screen to prevent it from heating up.

Sometimes, a team of musicians accompanied the bioscope to provide live musical interludes. The popularity of the medium soon made way for permanent cinema houses. First open-air, then enclosed, then with fans billowing, followed by air-conditioned theatres and finally completing the cycle, the drive-ins.

(This is from memory. We had an open-air cinema house as well as a drive-in in Karachi. Don’t know about India.)

The ‘silent’ were followed with ‘talkies’, then colour, cinemascopes, which is the norm now. Don’t know if any Todd-AOs or 70mms, or 16mm or straight-on-video were attempted.

Dadasaheb Phalke is generally acknowledged as the Mahatma/Quaid of Indian Cinema. He made the first feature film Raja Harischandra. Ardeshir Irani’s Alam Ara (1931) has the distinction of being the first talkie. The first colour film is a toss up between Mehboob Khan’s Aan and Sohrab Modi’s Jhansi ki Raani. The latter was ‘canned’ first but the former was released first.

(As a purist of sorts, I dislike the term Bollywood. I like Indian classics. Hence Bollywood---- mid 80’s onwards has diminished relevance for me----for the moment.)

There is magic in them old stalwarts, V. Shantaram, A.J. Kardar ( first Pakistani Cricket Captain A.H. Kardar’s brother or cousin?), Sohrab Modi, Mehboob Khan, Guru Dutt and others.
German art noveau surrealism of the mid to late 30’s appeared in late 40’s in India. If you watch some of the movies made circa 1950, you will notice their impact. Guru Dutt’s Kaghaz ke Phool epitomized this trend. For the song sequence ``Waqt ne kiya kya haseen sitam`` (Sung by Geeta Dutt:Music by Sachin Dev Burman: Lyrics by Kaifi Azmi) Guru Dutt had half the roof of Mehboob Studios knocked down to get the exact light and shadow effect. Attention to detail, mastery over direction and excellent cinematography are the hall mark of this period.
My biggest criticism of Indian Movies is their unrealistic story lines. Here I would have to concede that some movies made by the ‘alternate’ film makers, dubbed as art films, in the eighties and nineties have much more realistic story out lines.

But even the best of these Hindi films pale in comparison with the best of the rest in world cinema.

I would be hard pressed to compare Yimou Zhang’s Raise the Red Lantern (with Li Gong), Fellini’s Amarcord or 8 1/2, Henri Clouzot’s Diabolique, Kurosewa’s Seven Samurai, Rainier Fassbinder’s marathon 930min long Berlin-Alexanderplatz, Ingmar Bergman’s Cries and Whispers, Luis Bunuel’s Golden Age, Vittorio de Sica’s Bicycle Thief, or even little known gems such as Patrice Leconte’s Hairdresser’s Husband, Gabriel Axel’s Babette’s Feast or action movie like Wolfgang Petersen’s Das Boot with the best in Indian Cinema.

Why? I will be honest. I don’t know the answer.

Can only speculate. Perhaps it has to do with culture. Movies are a reflection of their surroundings. Suspension of disbelief, someone once said of movies. Shall have to do some more soul searching.

Here is my list of favourite classic Indian Hindi/Urdu movies. This list surfaced first in Veeresh’s article. This is a partial list in no particular order.

Balraj Sahni:....................Garam Hawa
Nargis (Fatima Rashid):..........Mother India
Nur Jehan:.......................Anmol GaRRhi
Gulzar (Sampooran Singh):........Maachis(film)Mirza Ghalib (TV)
Guru Dutt (Padukone):............Kaghaz ke Phool
Mehboob Khan:....................Mother India
Madhubala (Mumtaz Jehan):........Mughal-e-Azam/Barsaat ki raat
K (Karimuddin) Asif:.............Mughal-e-Azam
Dev Anand (Devdutt Pishorimal Anand):..Guide
Waheeda Rehman:..................ChaudhwiN ka Chand
Meena Kumari (Mahjabeen Bux):....Dil ek Mandir/ Sahib, Bibi aur Ghulam
Raj(Ranbirraj) Kapoor:...........Jaagte Raho
Amitabh Bachchan:................Sholay
Muzaffar Ali:....................Umrao Jaan Ada
Dilip Kumar (Yusuf Khan):........Devdas or Ganga Jumna
Shabana Azmi:....................Ankur
Satyajit Ray:....................Shatranj ke Khilari

Honourable mention: Shyam Benegal, Nasiruddin Shah, Smita Patil, Nutan, Sanjeev Kumar, Aamir Khan, Shah Rukh Khan, Nandita Das, Ashok & Kishore Kumar, Shashi & Shammi Kapoor, Kamal Haasan, Om & Amrish Puri, Mani Raatnam, Nana Patekar, Govind Nihilani.

And now, some drum roll please...

Am torn ...... between Garam Hawa, Kaghaz ke Phool, Mother India, Sahib, Bibi aur Ghulam, Umrao Jaan Ada and Mughal-e-Azam.

Help!

[Nobody can deny a director as gifted as Sanjay Leela Bhansali the right to interpret, or re-interpret, a novel. The best film and theatre productions on great novels and plays are the ones that offer their own interpretation of the writer’s work. Just as Shakespeare’s plays have been re-interpreted by stage and film directors down the ages, great novels too tend to gain from the creativity of film directors who have the courage to appropriately adapt the novel for the film medium.]

---True, but great novels too tend to lose from `the creativity of film directors who have the courage to appropriately adapt the novel for the film medium. I`m thinking of more contemporary novels though rather than Tolstoy. I mean..by all means, offer own interpretations, but to totally lose the novel? Shakespeare`s plays have been reinterpreted by film directors, yes..but they still retain much of what is Shakespeare, do they not?

[Most of our film directors and actors believe that poetry is mood, ambiguity and an extremity of emotion. They are unaware that since the mid-twentieth century, poetry is being defined by such precepts as Ezra Pound’s declaration that “poetry is written with brains” not emotions; and T.S. Eliot’s exposition of ‘the idea as a sensation’. Nor are they aware of Albert Camus’ recommendation to the modern artist, that it is a requirement of the times that the artist articulate the most complex of ideas in the simplest of ways.]

---I think this is the point where I am struggling with this article--the writer wants to define poetry according to Western standards. Are these the only ways in which poetry is defined? Are mood and ambiguity not aspects of poetry as well? But then again this is Arora ji`s interpretation...

i`ll reserve my thoughts for what could have possibly gone wrong with this article for now, as informative as it is...in the meantime...

[...Guru Dutt and his team knew, before the film’s theatrical release, that ‘Kaaghaz Ke Phool’ was not going to do well at the box office because it had become “over-technical”.]

---And in spite of that, KKP remains one of my favorite movies..for the story itself,and memorable scenes, the one scene where the cameraman is filming Waheeda Rehman, and the shadows..lovely! And when the song `Waqt ne kiya, kya haseen sitam, tum rahe na tum, hum rahe na hum` comes on..they stand at such a distance from each other, and that technical feat, as if their spirits move towards one another and embrace each other, and yet, they are still standing at that distance...poignant.. For me it still conveyed such a poetic sense..and pr`haps Devdas will do the same for some of the younger generation...kaun jane?