Immigrants All

rehan

parmeshwar godrej, not ``Pamela Godredge`` (how on earth will you teach bollywood if you cannot get mumbai celebrities right?).

sardarnis (if you were looking for the feminine for sardarjis) and not ``sardaris``.

what happened to kashmir plan? let`s go before/during elections (oct 16).

aakar

I will attend your seminar at the New sCHOOL. You are the most important Pakistani writing today.

wasiq

Re Zafar # 40

Actually pink tourism is a big source of revenue these days so even if Carr does not want to grow Gras under his feet the show might go on. Maybe apna Peter Bettie might steal the show to run it on Gold Coast!

sadna,

[we`re all in this together/actually we are all not]

---my badly phrased interpretation of Rehan`s `our very own`..chalo, not everyone agrees with that. :)

[``Clinton had did it again, knowing exactly what to say to whom.``

I think the author feels petulant that the US has changed its `nazar`, as in `we are the same but our friends the Americans have changed toward us Pakistanis. Indians are now basking in US favor which we were enjoying earlier, how fickle`.]

wow! and i can see why you would come up with such a response, given the paragraph right above it. Petulance, though? Looking at that very last sentence, I came up with nothing but Freud`s `sometimes a cigar is just a cigar`. They don`t call him Slick Willie for nothing you know!

:)

ana

I have no problem with anyone unilaterally calling overweight Indians overweight :)

``we`re all in this together ``
Actually we are all not.

The fact is that Pakistani immigrants,travellers, students, businessmen have now faced problems of restricted movement not only in the US but in the Gulf countries, in places like Philipines and Hongkong. What is the reason? Are Indians responsible?

``Clinton had did it again, knowing exactly what to say to whom.``

I think the author feels petulant that the US has changed its `nazar`, as in `we are the same but our friends the Americans have changed toward us Pakistanis. Indians are now basking in US favor which we were enjoying earlier, how fickle`.

My point has been, if so, author is being petulant to no purpose. Nothing Clinton or Bush can do or say to mollycoddle Pakistanis or show disdain for Indians can change the situation for Pakistanis around the world if Pakistanis donot bring about that change themselves.

Reply Subroto # 32

“With Kiran`s help Rahul and Vijay come out of the closet and move in together as lovers.”

Subrotoda, clearly you have lived for too long in Australia aur hamari convict sanskriti ka asar…vaisai, aap ne suna ke Mardi Gras is ar…I mean, belly up? Or is that just Sydney ka gup shup? They had a good run I guess…tho what Carr is going to do about that alleged $10 million business generated by it I don’t know…

Pathetic drivel, so typical of Rehan Ansari.

So you are going to teach the finer points of Indian cinema.... whats your next course? T-Bone steak recepies from Uttar Pardesh?

sadna.. :)

Point noted. Vaise, I hope personally that I never go to a party where gallopin` G.W participates and speaks..but IF i was to go there, and there were that many overweight Pakistanis (myself included..no brickbats or comments from the idiot gallery!) then I`d beat the Indian writer to the punch :). And before you think I`m making light of the situation facing US immigrants, I`m not because it`s touched all or most of us. It`s a horrible situation, you feel Rehan dealt with it badly, and why shouldn`t you voice your opinion?

And since you did mention the overweight bit, I went back and reread this piece yet again (I had already read it in Mid-day when it first came out):

[The level of fitness was low, men with paunches, heavy jowls and unimaginative haircuts. My sister, who is in advertising, tells me that these days it is all about the body. The

gora rich know it and look it and I was disheartened OUR VERY OWN were not up to date.](caps emphasis mine)

I know you`ve pointed out the difference between an Indian writing and a Pakistani writing, but the reason I was somewhat stunned by what you said was that Rehan doesn`t make that distinction here. Perhaps your criticism stems from the fact that he makes this statement implying we`re all in this together, and then moves on to make a connection with only one group? Is it in the saying `our very own` that he`s malafide???

ana, temporal

temporal says:
``your perception that he foments anti-indian sentiments``

ana says:
``If I am to focus particularly on one group (my own) that is being harassed and persecuted, am I necessarily being malafide because I don`t mention each and every single group that is being harassed and persecuted in my piece.``


I only hope I can emulate your forbearance when an Indian writer attempting a description of evils facing Indian immigrants, finds it relevant to write 500-1000 words about overweight Pakistanis at a lavish Pakistani wedding where GW Bush also participated and spoke.

t:

Just like other things in life, its all too easy to become a captive of the comfort zone as regards ones ``style`` in writing as you put it. To some degree all of us are guilty of that. But then most of us are not featured writers. Rehan on the other hand is one and needs to realize the dangers of becoming too predictable.

I guess I`ll go tend my garden now and leave the field to the groupies.

later

-sac

P.S:I was amazed by the number of desi faces up in your neck of the woods. Pretty soon they`ll have their own MQM ;)

temporal..

yes, writers do have to adjust in order not to lose readers, but readers ka bhi tau kaam hai..readers should dare i say `read responsibly`.

Of course not everyone is going to like everything that Rehan writes, just as everyone is not going to like everything that you write, temporal (i know i haven`t :)). We`re not living in that society portrayed in Fahrenheit 451 where citizens must all think the same. Criticisms towards his writings are valid, and they should help him grow (Rehan, ye tum paRRh rahe ho na?).

sadna,

of course there are things missing..but why must his omission seem malafide. If I am to focus particularly on one group (my own) that is being harassed and persecuted, am I necessarily being malafide because I don`t mention each and every single group that is being harassed and persecuted in my piece. Perhaps if Rehan turned this into a longer piece, then he could address the widespread persecution that certain Indians and Pakistanis suffering across the great USA. My understanding of many of Rehan`s writings is that he writes from the micro, from something that he personally did, or did not witness, thinking that we can all apply it to the macro. And not all of us can..my response to you was merely to say that I did not personally sense the negativity towards Indians that you did.

sadna #33:

[...I have not made any comments against chowk...]

---of course you did not...my apologies......must be the hot chillies last night...:)

...the aaker ref. was in response to your perception that he foments anti-indian sentiments...earlier...i recall he was lambasted by some for being anti-pakistan...guess that is par for the course?...

lve,

t

temporal #31

``and sadnabibi…your comments are misplaced and mis-directed against chowk``

I have not made any comments against chowk. Kindly do me the honor of reading my posts before commenting on them. I donot understand why my posts have to conform to anyone else`s opinions including Aakar Patel`s ?

If you want chowk to be the exclusive preserve of your friends and associates, kindly make arrangements to restrict access or post a notice.

Well Rehan how about some original screen plots for your class. Actually some are original created right now (ekdum taaza maal) now others you may have read before.

ORIGINAL Hindi Movie Plots

Boy meets girl. Boy falls in love with girl. Boy starts romancing the girl. Girl files harassment suit. Boy in jail.

Two friends play cops and robbers as kids, and while one grows up to be a honest and upright cop, the other also grows up to be a honest upright cop!

A poor young man falls in love with a beautiful and very rich girl and when they approach the wealthy, arrogant and powerful father he happily gets them married!

Consumed by revenge against the corrupt Thakur, angry young man becomes a dacoit. He soon finds that riding on a horse gives him saddle sores. So he surrenders to the police and gets a job as a driver.

Twins separated in a crowded mela grow up in separate towns, doing different jobs, marrying and having children, without ever meeting again!

Young woman in village has dreams of a handsome prince, who rescues her from a life of poverty and drudgery in the village. Handsome prince comes to village and hires young woman as nanny for his young kids with a generous salary package and medical benefits.

The angry young man, who`s mother, sister, brother and kids are killed by the big-time goon, decides to take revenge and reports this to the police who nab and punish the criminal!

Vijay and Rahul are friends. Vijay is in love with Kiran. Kiran is in love with Rahul. Vijay and Rahul have a fight over Kiran but come to realise that she is not the one. With Kiran`s help Rahul and Vijay come out of the closet and move in together as lovers.

Sac bud:

(and scouty, samina, ana, sadna et all)

yaro kyuN ooskay peechay lag ga’aye ho…the guy is talented…(ok send brickbats my way…i will clean the mess on the flor and get ready to weave in and out and duck outta way of your cyber missiles..just give me 72 hours):)…promise

scout,ana
Sorry I have to disagree with you about this article and author`s previous ones.

If as sac says, author has written in a sort of collage, I see too many things missing and his selection of detail to present seems malafide.

For your information, Indians of all shades too have suffered more than their share of post-Sept 11 raids, deportations, unjustified harassment and murder because they physically resemble the ethnic groups involved in 9/11. There is a Sikh-American? body which has been keeping track of these incidents all over the US.

Recently a visiting Indian actress from Kerala of all places was detained for questioning along with her entourage after arousing one passenger`s suspicion on a plane to NY. One of the things they were asked by the authorities : have you travelled recently to Pakistan and Afghanistan?

I am curious, why werenot they asked, have you travelled recently to Bangladesh, Nepal or India?

When will the author with his heightened sensibilities feel curious about this, I wonder?

A course in Indian cinema???? what are you going to teach?? how to make your plot as disjointed as possible and tie it with a showdown and exh=change of garlands at the end? how to deal with stupid producers who only want a - barish mein eik gaana aur fountain ke upar eik gaana aur neeche eik aur .....

Re the article - well if you arent legal then you`ve got to face the consequences. And urdu newspapers - arent they eq of tabliods?? So???

sadna #26,

i have to agree with ana, u can`t accuse the guy of being against a particular group. if u don`t like the way he writes, that`s another matter.

er, um, er, Rehan has made snide remarks and nasty comments about Indians?!? Brothas and sistahs, Rehan has made snide and nasty remarks about EVERYONE, Americans, Pakistanis, Indians and possibly even Plutonians (arre Rehan, kamazkam unko tau baksh dau!!!). He is the equal opportunity disher out of snide and nasty remarks, so let`s not all get paranoid all at once, please please please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And of course he`s not putting all of us down..lest our paranoia grows..but then nastiness is in the eyes of the reader, as you who`ve been reading his `badly-written` (ye mein nahin kehti, zamana kehta hai)articles have said.

scout #25
Not only this one but also a number of his previous articles have had snide and nasty references to Indians. If chowk authors donot want comments about their articles, they shouldnot publish them.

sadna #14,

wow sadna, that was one of your famous

sadna-esque posts which turns a pretty innocent article into anti-india paranaoia in your mind.

are you and jay related?

sac, scout,

nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah na-na!

:)

Shankar#90


Sadna is not the only one to get through during pauses at Chowk; some of the others in that privileged group are Fuzair, Feroz Khan, RSiddiqui, temporal, Urstruly and Beena.


BTW, the pauses are getting longer and longer. I wonder if Chowk is facing any serious problems (takeover battles:-)); will anyone from the Staff care to share?

Rehan,
some interesting contrasts here.
This may not be one of your best but it made
its point, Clinton and all.

Ras

sac #20,

glad to see someone agrees with me on his writing.

re saminashah #19:

Writing cannot be judged by what Joan Didion or Oprah Winfrey thinks about it. It either works or it doesn`t. This piece from one of Chowk`s featured writers doesn`t. Look at all of his work preceding this one and they all read exactly the same. Throw in a few jumbled events, add a few clever sounding new-agish remarks and then step away from the stew for the reader to figure out if its tuna or catfish. It has worked sometimes, on most occasions it hasn`t. Hence my advice to go take a class in creative writing. If Provicetown all the better.......

later

-sac

sac,

There were some connections there; I`m reminded of this para by Joan Didion:

``...We tell ourselves stories in order to live. The princess is caged in the consulate. The man with the candy will lead the children into the sea. The naked woman on the ledge outside the window on the sixteenth floor is a victim of accidie, or the naked woman is an exhibitionist, and it would be ``interesting`` to know which is which. We tell ourselves that it makes some difference whether the naked woman is about to commit a mortal sin, or is about to register a political protest, or is about to be, the Aristophanic view, snatched back to the human condition by the fireman in priest`s clothing just visible in the window behind her, the one smiling at the telephoto lens. We look for the sermon in the suicide, for the social or moral lesson in the murder of five. We interpret what we see, select the most workable of the multiple choices. We live entirely, esp. if we are writers, by the imposition of a narrative line upon disparate images, by the ``ideas`` with which we have learned the freeze the shifting phantasmagoria which is our actual experience....``

She then continues to muse that the narrative line itself sentimental, meaningless, connective, etc. What happens nowadays is no less indefinable.

.......tavern is really swanky so is the russian tea too bad its gone they had the sexiest women i swear ..............

I get the feeling that this article was written under the influence or some 10 year old wrote this in his off time. What`s the point? Taking seemingly unconnected observations and unifying them into a collage works for certain subjects, it absolutely doesn`t in this case. Observing a wedding at Tavern on the green with its atrocious food and then quoting ad-nauseum from some two-bit rag is supposed to be eye-opening? Throwing in some self-indulging comments(these days it is all about the body) won`t cut it. Maybe ylh was right all along........

A course in creative writing in exchange for the class in Indian cinema won`t be a bad idea...............

later

-sac

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Bleeding India by a thousand cuts was not so low cost an option after all. But those who support low cost options made sure they were rich enough to be legal immigrants, so are content to let their poorer countrymen to be the fall guys paying for this lowcost option back home and in the US. Its easier to whine about the US and Indians than to make this connection between cause and effect.

Instead of whining about rich Indians and their horses, why not ask how many rich Pakistanis in the US have helped out the unfortunates caught in the 9/11 net?

What is the proportion of money donated by these rich Pakistanis to `Islamic charities` for Kashmiris and Afghans to money spent helping these unfortunates in the US?

How many Pakistani-Americans have forsworn low cost options to at the very least save the future generations of legal/illegal immigrants from such harassment?

How many Pakistanis migrating to other countries want it all ways, namely to be offered every right and facility wherever they go including the right to preach hatred/use violence against those granting them those rights.

Sometimes its better to celebrate life with an obscenely ostentatious wedding in Manhattan than try to spend that money across the river buying Stinger missiles and nuclear weapons knowhow.

Your article is strangely lacking any elaboration of these details.

scouty,

#1

sis, that was one of your all-time classics!

scout (#1) - I think you answered your own question: ``.... if only more of us would diffuse and assimilate like the jews`` with what would be the likely result when in the next line you ask:

``and what`s this recent trend of desis becoming more `gora` and goras becoming more `desi` in terms of culture and morality.``

To me this is one of the reasons we should avoid ``assimilation and diffusion`` - you will become indistinguishable from the rest of the bland mixture. We Pakistanis are even worse than the Indians in some respects: The Indian movies slavishly copy dance numbers, bare skin, the heros and heroines are no longer the charming originals of the older indian movies. They`re just imitations of the Hollywood types. But the Indian movies/actors/actresses are just bad copies. We on the other hand are bad copies of bad copies!!! We`re actually imitating imitations!! Pathetic.

Given this, why the interest in actually paying MONEY to study Indian movies??! Or am I missing something?

Rehan,

Hasbe ma`amool, you get the good, the bad and the ugly reviews. I thought this was quite descriptive of two different scenarios, and NOT smacking of jealousy. I, however am! All the best with your class, and remember the advice you gave me about mine? I just know you`re going to do the same!!! a.

Nice write up Rehan.

Trying to show the callousness of the gora-fied desis who throw their wealth lavishly (really, what is the need to transport elephants from the zoo - that`s just barbaric animal cruelty) and the helplessnes of desis who are struggling to make ends meet whatever way they possibly can, legal or illegal immigrants, does it really matter if they work and live honestly?

It`s a pity that the rich don`t even make an effort to help their poor brethen. The 2,000+ souls - Pakistanis, Arabs, Sikhs, even some Hindus - that are languishing in US jails without any reason or representation, just on the basis of American hatemongering tactics after 911 - can be helped by those who have influence, who have ``made it`` in the US, and who can give afford to give them some assistance. But why should they?

Showing off dancing horses at a wedding is more important than saving human lives. Disgusting.

Re: Scout, #2

Good one!!!

There is the connection of the surrealism between the have and have nots. Some fine juxtapositions and sobering ironies here; NYC can be exhilariatingly democratic at time (the subway car, jury duty) and as rigidly stratified as a feudal fiefdom. But the multitude of strands; i.e. Mr. Clinton (viz his encoded speeches to the Dem. Party in elbowing out Jesse Jackson during the late 90`s primaries) seems a perfect character as does the mystery of the blue eyed Ayub, and of course the round ups and interrogations of Pakistani Muslims.

While I am aware of some of the more eggregious breaches of the Constitution affecting some Pakistanis who have been imprisoned, I`d like to know more about the newspapers referenced. Does anyone know if they can be accessed online, or if not, what are some of these papers?

yes, I read someplace that the indians and pakistanis actually get along pretty well in NY and other places. maybe someone can correct me on this.

a number of well known indians in show biz (aamir khan, kamal haasan and others) were also subject to various indignities on US trips.

--

The level of fitness was low, men with paunches, heavy jowls and unimaginative haircuts. My sister, who is in advertising, tells me that these days it is all about the body. The

gora rich know it and look it and I was disheartened our very own were not up to date.

--

I don`t see the point of having millions or billions of dollars when one does not look after the most precious gift we have.. the trillion dollar body. In most cases its as simple as having an aerobic workout for 20 minutes a day. it wont prevent aging or death but at least we can live life a little more fully, more gracefully.

Rehan

From the first para, I thought you were going to contrast the life of the desis, who have made it in the USA and those who are struggling to find their feet. This would have been an interesting and useful article.

However, all you rest of the article smacked of jealousy of the rich sardarji and usual complaints about the heavy handedness of the FBI. On the first a lot of immigrents have made through hard work and business acumen. More power to them. On the second if the FBI and other government agencies are paranoid about Pakistani immigrants, they have good reason. Every terrorist act performed in US had a Pakistani connection. So yes, many innocent Pakistanis are paying for the sins of their compatriots. But that is the way of the world.

Rehan

From the first para, I thought you were going to contrast the life of the desis, who have made it in the USA and those who are struggling to find their feet. This would have been an interesting and useful article.

However, all you rest of the article smacked of jealousy of the rich sardarji and usual complaints about the heavy handedness of the FBI. On the first a lot of immigrents have made through hard work and business acumen. More power to them. On the second if the FBI and other government agencies are paranoid about Pakistani immigrants, they have good reason. Every terrorist act performed in US had a Pakistani connection. So yes, many innocent Pakistanis are paying for the sins of their compatriots. But that is the way of the world.

Rehan, you are going to teach on Indian cinema? But that`s a HUUUUGE subject!!! Are you going to teach about movies in all Indian languages, or only on the standard Bollywood fare? Will you include the so-called parallel cinema of Kerala and Bengal in your syllabus? Lots of foreigners know nothing about Indian movies other than the silly song and dance hero-heroine-villain Bollywood movies. I hope you are not going to reinforce those silly stereotypes of Indian cinema.

u know, i was dying, absolutely dyinggggg to take a course on Indian Cinema since i adore the subject so much and would eventually like to write a thousand page thesis on it, but the registration fee is toooooooo steep.

oh well. long live free IFC

it`s unfortunate that innocent Muslim families fall under the tarnish of fundamental Islam and thus are humiliated in this manner, and Muslims are stupid enough to retaliate with anger and violence instead of intelligence and introspection.... if only more of us would diffuse and assimilate like the jews....not the zionist freaks, but the intelligent, powerful Jewish community that rules NY, and much of the US.

and what`s this recent trend of desis becoming more `gora` and goras becoming more `desi` in terms of culture and morality.

izzat bech khai humnay.