Organized Irrelevance

sattar2:

you do have a funny bone...am glad you discovered there is more to them fables than flying donkeys...now let me get back to the 31st chapter...

...t

karakoram #8, sattar2#39: Khadija ia believed to be 15 years older and not 25 years older than Mohammad. She was 40 and Mohammad 25 at the time of wedding. Even 40 does not sound reasonable, becasue she was still well in her child bearing age and gave birth to several children, including Fatima. She had no child from previous marriage/ marriages.
She passed away many years before Mohammad migrated to Medina. It is not known, if he took all his posessions with him or left behind in the care of relatives or Khadija family members. During her marriage with Mohammad, her business was the main source of income for the family. It was good enough that Mohammad can leave for days or even month at a time to meditate at ghar-e-hira, taking with him food and water and not worrying about running the househod.
The Islamic traditions fall silent about her immediately after her death and no mention of her is made anywhere. The person who could have memories of her, her daughter Fatima also died unexpectedly in her 30s soon after Mohammad`s death and the Khadija chapter was closed.
sattar2: Some authors seriously believe, Jewish conspiracy in the whole affair with Khadija being the leading Jewish influence, due to her upper hand in the family. They point out clear departure from too much talk about Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Jacob etc in the revelation during the time Khadija was alive. Once she died, like the Madni surahs, the topics are different and the mood about Jews is also very diferent. I do not know how much anti-Islamic bias there is in these authors`s research.

Oh by the way, the Guardian, ran an interview with one of
Saddam`s ex-mistress who was ``rescued`` by the opposition.

In one of the quotes, she says that besides drinking heavily, Saddam wants to have his name etched for another 1000 years just like Salaudin.

So it all comes down to this; trying to live in memory lane. Gives a hoot for his people. Most of the islamic countries(except malaysia) gives a hoot.

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,788164,00.html

Re Karakoram #8, on khadija`s business “…became focused with Islam, the business stopped. Not exactly sure what happened with it …”


The organized federation of Jews, parent company of what is now known as Merrill Lynch, chalked out a plan for an IPO … an investment banking firm was hired … Mo and family, and Abu Bakr and Ali got “friends and family” … and started counting days till the end of the six-month lockout period …

That was before the market crashed … the one run by the league of confused arabs … later named the OIC. Camel breeding farms reorganized their debt under chapter 11 … bedouin dreams of indoor plumbing, processed sugar, and a stairmaster in every home were shattered … all was lost.

Plan B was to start a religion … aimed at offsetting the effects of high unemployment and a sharp drop in median household disposable income. Revelations were directed against monetary interest, alcohol consumption, group sex, and idol worshipping. Options were expensed on basis of ahadith. Hand count was taken … and 4 marriages were allowed. Fasting was institutionalized to bring the body mass index of the adult population within the limits set by the arab FDA. Tahajjud was initiated as a healthy substitute to nightlife, with the slogan … ‘pray with us, and you’ll have 70 times as much fun later’.

The idea caught on … zakat money started flowing in … organized labor and management shook hands … economy stabilized and steered clear of the second dip. Only this time Mohammad was smarter … instead of leaving people with too much time in their hands … he asked them to stay occupied with prayer … memorizing the voluminous Quran … and discussing the social benefits of a society free from riba, punk rock, and oprah winfrey. Some of this did not sit well with the neighboring Jews … and led to a few armed conflicts ... including one where Mohammad went after the banu quraizah to even the score.

But that’s a whole new chapter in the history of investment banking.

Please check out this link about Saudi Schools and how they are trying to improve their curriculam:

I found the last para interesting, one Saudi guy, says that ``islam is not THE subject but A subject now``; he laments that, ``we need good muslims who are doctors, good muslims who are economists and not muslim as a ``full time job``. very interesting statement.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/06/60minutes/main521056.shtml

faziiet,

{{The reason the OIC is so pathetic in the face of Indian actions that are offensive to Muslims is, well, because Pakistan has done a rather poor job of building ties to other Muslim countries...}}

Oh jeeze, thats an interesting revelation !!(no sarcasm meant).

I`m no diplomat, but the few films of newsclips that I have seen of Arab dignitaries (esp the monied Arabs) visiting Pakistan, (metaphorically) there is a hoard of Pakistani fussing around ``his excellency``, lapping up his every word & kissing his feet.. C`mon Pakistanis are the biggest Arab brown-nosers in the world...uh..maybe I`m just overreacting to the natural hospitality Pakistanis exude towards any foreigner.

Who fights harder for the ``causes`` of oppressed muslims in this world?!.....whether it is Kashmiris, Palestinians, Afghans under the Soviets or even Chechnya?..PAKISTAN!!

Who has saved the Islamic world from slimy banias & godless Soviets...?!PAKISTAN!!

Who has vanquished & humbled Israeli pilots?!..., not Arabs...its the fearless knights of the skies...nobody can beat them in dogfighting... the indomitable PAKISTAN air force...,.ask ylh if you dont believe me!...the whooole Islamic world was cheering as Israel planes crashed & burned, when they dared to take on the PAF.

...And you are telling me despite all this, ``Pakistan has done a poor job``, diplomatically, in the Islamic world?! You are going to get the world renowed Mahela Lodhi et all, a wee bit peeved at you! Pakistani diplomats work night & day in the Islamic world, shouting themselves hoarse from the rooftops of the world ,about Kashmir.

Are muslims from outside the subcontinent blind & deaf?!...Maybe when Pakistan piously declare ``moral victories`` & quote Galib about ``hum bhi dekhenge!``, the rest of the muslim world tells it..``Oh, get a frikking LIFE!!``

PS..I understand you authored this article. BTW, you did a pretty good job; dont mind our rude & sarcastic replies:)

No its just not OIC,,

Its the whole Muslim Nation.

Even from the begginng there seems something seriouy wrong with Islam.
Look what they did to their Khulfa`s Rashideen....
or to their other heros like... Tariq Bin Ziad or Mohammed Bin Qasim or even Quaid-e-Azam.
no to mention Tipu Sultan and other...
...when one read quran One get a distict regret in the tone in Allah Messege of Missing out the Jews...
He has admitted times and again to trying to tame Jews...and when he failed...he picked Arabs...a second choice.. so we are infact Second choice....and second choice is always not the best choice.

No its just not OIC,,

Its the whole Muslim Nation.

Even from the begginng there seems something seriouy wrong with Islam.
Look what they did to their Khulfa`s Rashideen....
or to their other heros like... Tariq Bin Ziad or Mohammed Bin Qasim or even Quaid-e-Azam.
no to mention Tipu Sultan and other...
...when one read quran One get a distict regret in the tone in Allah Messege of Missing out the Jews...
He has admitted times and again to trying to tame Jews...and when he failed...he picked Arabs...a second choice.. so we are infact Second choice....and second choice is always not the best choice.

hari, for the Pakistan, the source of the problem can be traced back to Mullah-Army-ISI establishment that has waged war against nationalist parties since at least 1955.

It is time that Muslims revisited the thinking of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan
and the movement that started at Aligarh.

The rest is all ....

Ras

According to BBC, al-jazeera is going to air video clips from interview taken from two al-queida members from, Karachi, Pakistan!

Here is the link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2239889.stm

Similarly, LA Times ran a big piece about 9/11 about two sundays back as to who planned, who executed the plan, etc. According to LA times, the plan was hatched by a Sheikh Khalid something...from Karachi, Pakistan.

What has Pakistan become? When is Pakistan going to flush these nut-cases?

What to talk about Ummah when even a country like Pakistan could never unite under Islam? It`s time to go back to our nationalist origins and stop pretending Islam matters in our daily lives or can be the sole reason for a nation state.

so long as OIC represents countries which use Religion as a basis of identity or existence, then there is a problem.

To me using a 7th century ideology to define 21st century functionality is irrelevant.

All the west visualizes is a woman fully draped in Black burqa even on her face in a scorching hot sun invites being labelled irrelevant. I have known that black absorbs heat and white reflects heat. So you would expect women in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere in the muslim world, even if they are firm believers in following dictums, would atleast wear white instead of black atleast for common sense.

So if the OIC and the muslim ummah cannot even see common sense in this basics of basics, how can you expect them to strategize for the future?

Ref Field Marshal turned Economic Analyst #6
[In the current world, co-operation is based on common economic interests. Hence, Pakistanis need to try to become part of large economic unions, Muslim or otherwise. After all, Prophet Muhammad and his wife did run an import-export business that traded with all kinds of people with different religions.]
The trouble with this idea was brought forth with great impact this morning.
As I was walking along the beach in Chennai, I noticed a bunch of sidewalk hawkers selling religious items. Sunday seems to be some sort of festival for the local Christian Church (Our Lady of Vailankanni) with Ganesh Chaturthi following a couple of days later. The vendors were prominently displaying pictures and figurines of Mary and Jesus as well as Ganesh (the elephant-headed god of Hindus) to cater to all those who would be interested in these items.
Imagine a similar day in any of the countries constituting the Muslim Ummah. All pictures and figurines would be destroyed as being un-Islamic. Also, there is NO record of the Prophet Muhammad or his wife Khadhija hawking copies of the Torah and the Bible alongside the Koran though there were plenty of Jews and Christians in Arabia, including in Mecca and Medina. You might excuse this by saying that the Prophet was attempting to corner the market on religious following by concentrating exclusively on those who would be interested only in the Koran but he also brought in a brand new approach to market dominance: just kill off those who would not buy his wares. This seems to be still the trend with the Ummah.
As Naipaul points out, the Islamic countries want trade with the West but on their own terms. Thus everybody wants The Bomb and missiles but not necessarily the intellectual discipline that goes with having to make them. They want Hollywood entertainment so long as all women are properly covered in burqas and are accompanied by male mehrams. Well, the West is NOT willing to sell you The Bomb at any price but short-range missiles seem to be a fair trade against oil. The Muslim Ummah can buy airconditioners, automobiles, TVs, water desalination plants, etc., but The Great Satan and the Wicked Witches of the West draw the line there. Thus the Ummah is seriously pissed off at the West.
Are you willing to allow free trade in ideas as well as goods? If not, the Ummah will still be following 7th generation Arab thought, thoroughly modern for its times but sadly outdated for the 21st century, while riding in limousines instead of on camels.

Dear Haroon,

A few things from my personal opinion…

This whole Ummah thing…the more I think about it…isn`t it just a fantastical concept? Did one united body of Muslims ever exist? I don`t know but I don`t think so. Muslims began splitting apart from a very early age due to political disputes and this political skeleton was fleshed out with religious doctrines. Rather than promote and study independent strands of thought and let them thrive under one circle, we decided to categorise ourselves into exclusive little packages. If that wasn`t stupid enough, we began promoting little rituals and festivals amongst our own little circles so that we became even more distinct and separated from one another. To put the icing on the cake, every sonofabitch stamped their rhetoric with hell fire.

Where does one start? Well, the pillow fight over who was to take over the leadership after the death of the prophet`s death is a damn good example.

Muslim people have been screwed around by a hell of a lot of their `leaders`, some of whom have screwed around with others also. That`s why the OIC is so $hit in the bigger scheme of things. Today, a lot of us are waiting for the Messiah to descend and I agree with Sameer when he says that `majority of the people of Pakistan, just like people anywhere else want better life, justice and peace.` I`m glad he wrote that because it shows our collective attitude towards our problems. We want to make money, we want to educate our children but we don`t consider it our job to fix them. Instead we want someone else, in our own home territory, to deal with those situations and give us something ready-made that we can work upon. I`m sorry but that sounds like sheep talk to me and people who expect others (their corrupt leaders, the IMF or the world or whatever) to give us crutches will never succeed. Yes, we`ll float from butane gas cookers to microwaves but we won`t be the ones creating waves. (Yes, I know, I know; it`s easier said than done but I wouldn’t be saying this if I wasn`t doing anything [no matter how insignificant] myself).

This is why Pakistanis or Muslims (since we are discussing them) are successful in western nations but not back in their own countries. I think Western Muslims do not give enough credit to the institutions that have been created over the decades and centuries that help nourish them.

However, I do believe in an ummat and I do believe that only a collective of everyday people from around the world co-operating will help move us forward. Afterall, the concept is revolting to some of us only because it has been taken up by political leaders whose only interest in ummat relates to their own causes. Otherwise, the concept circles around social unity. What is so wrong with unity?

And who gives a monkey as to whether there is/isn’t an OHC for Hindus or an OCC for Christians or an OBC for the Buddhists. Smells of a mind which stopped pioneering a long time ago.

But I`ll be honest, whenever I hear any ummah shummah, I get pi$$ed off because it amounts to some guy recruiting young dopey kids to serve the political purposes of the few shady people at the top.

However, I`m all for an ummat if it`s run by the Muslim public of every type and from every social stratum, if it`s completely out of the sphere of politics, politicians and those with political affiliations, if its aims are to benefit every single Muslim AND Non-Muslim who lives in a Muslim majority country, if it increases communication amongst people and aids religious and cultural tolerance and scientific understanding, if it builds bridges and brings peace, if it aims to empower the people and bring out all the nasty little problems that we suffer from and finally and most importantly…if it`s a good larf …then why not?

But if a bunch of nutters are going to invoke ummatism to fuel their own political movements or spread nationalism or force their own brand of culture and religion down people`s throats, then screw it. We`re all better without it.

Best wishes,
Umer M.

harun excellent article ..........................i commend ur stance

Haroon Mughal,

You have some interesting views that lead to other questions. However, we may first want to understand what you mean by ``selling`` (as in response to # 13).

When two nations do completely different things, why do you prefer to say that they merely sold themselves differently? Is that the methodology you suggest we employ in our personal lives too? Or, in any other social/international context?

IMO, this is a very important issue. A nation can cure a disease only if it diagnoses the problem correctly. Let`s get this diagnosis right.

ORGANIZED RELEVANCE

Dear Mughal

That was an analysis done very well. I don`t think I disagree with anything in your article except one that ``Muslim`` countries should abandon the idea of OIC. Let me build my case from taking the example of Turkey. Turkey is a member of OIC (since 1969) despite the fact that it is strictly a ``secular`` country and maintains its secularism through fascist means. In addition, it is THE country who abandoned the Khilafah and thus rejected the concept of Ummah. The second example is that of Syria and Iraq who are ruled by rabid Islam haters of Baa`th party. The third example is that of Libya which is ruled by a fascist, socialist, despot. Despite all these characteristics these countries are members of OIC that is Organization of Islamic Countries. Don`t you find it mind-boggling. Well, the answer is simple, i.e., being the member of OIC is a political compulsion of the rulers of these countries. The compulsion is from the people of those countries. Why OIC is so impotent? Again we take the example from some of the prominent countries of this organization:

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Iraq (below 33rd parallel), Saudi Arabia, Yemen: These countries are under direct occupation of US and other Western colonial powers.

Jordan, Egypt, Morroco, Tunisia, Algeria: The governments are not only unrepresentative and oppressive but are candidly clients of Western and US colonial powers.

Iraq, Syria, Libya: are either ruled by socialist, fascist despots or are ruled by rabidly anti-Muslim Baa`th party.

African Nations: Are either still fighting the tyranny of Europeon colonial rulers who just would not leave them alone or are the hunting ground of Multinational Corporations and Diamond, Oil and Gold Syndicates, who fund mercenaries and are engaged in covert wars to protect their loot and plunder.

So is there any wonder why the OIC is defunct? But so is the now-defunct-United Nations, which is rendered defunct by the same colonial powers. You have cited the internal reasons, one of which is, unrepresentative governments for the failure of OIC, which I agree, but that is not the whole truth.

I titled my post ``Organized Relevance`` because there IS organized relevance at least at three levels between the people of these countries.

Level 1:

Intergovernmental i.e. OIC, which is defunct because of the reasons said above.

Level 2:

Non-Governmental Associations, that include, political, non-political, and semi-political organizations that exist in these countries. These are the forces, which keep the unrepresentative governments from getting out of hand. The political clout of these organizations must not be under-estimated; these are the organizations who derive the movements for Islamic banking, economy, education, and other welfare schemes.

Level 3:

The Militant Associations: This is a new phenomenon. The greatest catalyst that triggered the formation of such associations is the occupation of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and that of Kuwait in 1992 by US and Western colonial powers. These associations are worldwide, and fighting against the local and foreign oppression. Don`t nobody tell me that 19 hijackers attacked US just because they hated their freedom OK.

So whether one likes it or not OIC will be there as long the as the concept of Ummah is alive and well. And concept of Ummah is alive and well as long as Islam is alive and well because one of the core social principles of Islam are the concept of Universal brotherhood and that transcends all barriers of borders, nations, color, language, and ethnicity. The irony is that those who reject the notion of Ummah in one breath sing the hymns of praise for EU in the same breath. If EU is a good idea then so is Ummah.

Faziiet #19, do you know what the name of that Sikh was? Could he have been India`s foreign minister, and as such the only authorized representative for India? And if so, would it be appropriate for OIC to throw him out?

Mr Haroon, a very good job at articulating the impotence of OIC. But your conclusion to push for a meaningful organization stands in question. Given the fact that it would most certainly be another inter-governmental institution, i fail to see how would it be any better than the current one.
Moreover, why would the people have any say in determining the goals that you stated. I dont think, the common man in Islamdom, has the strength or the inclination to pursue such noble objectives.

The problem lies within. The real demon haunting the Islamic world is within itself. I dont think threats like Israel, India or western hegemony can even come close to the oppressive and incompetent regimes ruling these nations.

Muslim world unfortunately, was sitting on the sidelines when the west was going through its painful phase of Modernistic maturity and it gave up a lot of blood to achieve this. I dont think Muslims can achieve the same so easily.

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Dear Jay,

Mashallah at your spurious analysis. Those with inferior minds cannot help but display their ignorance openly. Since I wrote the above article, I can at least say this much: Does it matter where I was educated? (For your information, I was educated in the United States... born and raised here as well, which doesn`t make me any better or worse than someone educated in India, Pakistan, whatever). I spent some time with the OIC but was disgusted by it -- the article is my suggestions for its improvements (through an alternative organization).

There are those of us who do not believe that the raison d`etre of humanity`s existence is economic improvement, and that people can live good, meaningful lives without a narrow focus on materialism (Were you raised as a slave to the Westernization of almost all intellectual output in the world? Possibly).

Furthermore, India was not rejected because it was a ``kafir`` nation. India was invited to the first OIC meeting in Morrocco, but had a problem, and they decided to send a Sikh as the leader of their delegation. Naturally, this made many Muslims, both inside and outside of India, rather nervous. Why wouldn`t the Indians allow Indian Muslims to head the delegation? Were they afraid of what they were going to say, in criticism of the government -- or were there other factors at work? Both are possible. India stated that the first head of the delegation was caught up and the Sikh politician was put in his place. Regardless, it caused difficulties, India was insulted and withdrew, and the OIC felt itself similarly insulted and withdrew.

I am not one to believe in pan-Islamism against economic benefit, nor do I believe in exclusionary tactics. Societies are based on the acceptance of ideological systems, and whether it is a religious system or a neo-liberal Western democratic system, at root it demands the same acceptance of certain beliefs, and this acceptance of beliefs necessitates some discrimination. Muslims feel discriminated against by secular governments, due to their religion`s non-secular nature, and secularists feel discriminated against by religious governments, due to their distaste for religion combining with politics. I am only accepting reality when I forwarded this article, not living in some dream world.

Haroon,

After writing so much about the failure of OIC you could not dare to take a step further and analyse the roots of its failures. You cannot notice that the essential objective of such a religio political grouping is to identify the others as kafirs. You did not dare to state that india was expelled form OIC because it is not an islamic country though it is the second most populus muslim country.

All that you could come up with in conclusion was to resucuiate the OIC because you believe in a muslim unity, not in economic complimetarity. This is the final disply of your pakistani education. Pathetic.

re: sameerjb # 14

I have no idea what British Commonwealth does. All it definitely does is to indicate which good-for-nothing countries once had the privilege of being slaves of the British. Perhaps the slave in us is not dead yet.

Oh, we get to have some books from the British Consulate! That must be it. A few shillings and pounds, some contacts, may be.

Prembhai, Nasahbhai

“Ummitis is a disease that particuarly affects some people in the subcontinent”

Ummitis is VARY DANGROUS diseases! Plz! b hoshiyar! Ia m think if you brtush/flossing reglarly it isok. Also gargling with zamzam pani.

Haroonbai, I am likingy our aticle. Donut listening to all peoples whoa re asking nastyquastions, logical flanaflana,ok? Youj ust writew hat you are feel in heart. Be strung! Many Muslim/Muslimah are believe whaty ousay. (Nasbandibai is alsowrite like this shreef thins, proper Islamic behaviorus ands oforth)

Slaam!

Prem: To some extent nasah is right. The reason I say ``to some extent`` is the fact that only official level and among some urbanites, Ummah disease exists. Otherwise majority of the people of Pakistan, just like people anywhere else want better life, justice and peace. The Pakistani establishment line has been to make sure Pakistani thinks think themselves of not-Indian, not south Asian but part of Islamic world, west of Pakistan. Majority of Muslims live in Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. This majority is not so much considered Ummah by Pakistani establishment but Arabs, Iranians, Afghan, Turkey and central Asian Muslims. Hardly any Pakistani head of state visits these majority Muslim countries but rush to Arab countries, especially to KSA every other month.
All Pakistani establishment to do is to stop publicizing Ummah business for couple of years and Ummah Shummah stuff will be left for religious parties and mullahs sermons. Actually there are more Muslims in Phillipines than Chechniya and more Keralite Muslims than Palestinians but Pakistanis and OIC are mostly concerned with smaller groups of Muslims to the west than the larger ones to the east. The reason has also to do with all the invading barbarian heroes coming from the west.
OIC is like British Commonwealth, based on not-so-proud legacies. Yet even India has never seriously considered leaving Commonwealth, although British monarch is the life-term head of this organization. Every two-years all the leaders stand behind Queen shamelessly.
One thing that makes me proud of Pakistan more than India is that Z. A. Bhutto, like Ireland before, left commonwealth for the sake of pride. Pakistan should not have gone back. Had Nehru dumped Commonwealth, many countries would have left it.

shankar:
could it be because the Indian Army has had a field hosptial in Tajikistan to help the wounded in the Northern Alliance, and also a hospital in Kabul, whereas Pakistan has exported Islamist revolutionaries to all neighboring countries?

re: faziiet # 10

Why would you say that India has simply done the job of selling itself better?

You begin by laying out, what I believe, is the truth. India and Pakistan have DONE very different things, taken very different ACTIONS in the global arena.

These actions involve costs, lead to commitments, relationships, understandings, and ofcourse, consequences.

One country has built its foreign policy on pan-Islamism, other has built it on mutual interests.

If I had two people who behaved completely different toward me, I would behave differently toward them. Where does ``selling`` come into play?

Help me understand.



re: sameerjb, Shankar

You folks know all this stuff better. But, could it be, partly at least, because of what nasah wrote: that Ummitis is a disease that particuarly affects some people in the subcontinent, that for others it is not as all encompassing dream as it appears to be for Haroon Mughal and his cohorts.

Could it be that others are more keen on pursuing their own interests than some worldwide Islamic dreamland? And if that is the case, then why do you expect their behavior to be any different from what it is?

shankar: OIC, JI of Pakistan, Ikhwan of Egypt, Nahdat-Ul-Ulema of Indonesia were all cretaed by Saudi backing to follow Saudi agenda. Kashmir, Chechniya etcetra are not high on saudi agenda.
The most important thing for Saudis is to be respected and acdepted as pro-Islamic monarchy, in order to justify and prolong their rule over Muslim holyland - a monarchy otherwise known for raids on caravans in the past. Technically any person of King Abdullah of Jordan or King of Morrocco or even ex-king of Libya Shah Idrees has more claim on Saudi Arabia for being the descendants of Mohammad.
For poor third world Muslim countries like Pakistan, OIC is first step towards a good political/ economic relationship with USA through the intermediacy of Saudis. Saudis are the main arbiter of Muslims with USA.

Re: Shankar`s Last Posting

-- The reason the OIC is so pathetic in the face of Indian actions that are offensive to Muslims is, well, because Pakistan has done a rather poor job of building ties to other Muslim countries. Because of our ideological background, we associate our religion and our nationalism quite tightly together (on the whole), whereas in other Muslim countries, this is unfortunately not the case.

Now, during the Cold War, most Arab states sided with the USSR and India did as well, laying a groundwork for scientific and technological cooperation between these states. Post-independence in Central Asia, India actively sought to help these states through technological and economic cooperation... while Pakistan`s misguided foreign policy basically aided all the anti-government groups operating in Central Asia and Afghanistan. As a result, the governments of many Muslim countries became increasingly pro-India and warier of Pakistan.

That`s why the OIC is always waffling on the issue of Kashmir. India simply has done a better job of selling itself, while many Muslim countries are -- quite obviously -- not at all representative of their religious values or camaraderie... often they stand even against the views of their own respective populations. The other problem Pakistan has is that it just doesn`t have as many resources as India, so it can`t offer as much assistance.

I dont understand what kind of hold India has over the OIC.

Does it require money to pass a resolution to condemn (in the harshest possible way), the slaughter of Muslims in Gujrat?

Why cant the OIC take an unequivocal stand to support Pakistan re Kashmir, I mean a resolution with some teeth?

Trashing Israel, with a sugar daddy like the US, firmly backing it, is a waste of time. India, OTOH does not have a sugar daddy (like the erstwhile Soviet Union) anymore. India is far more vulnerable to international pressure than Israel is. There is nothing that India has to offer that the OIC nations cant get from other sources.

Its not the lack of funds that makes the OIC ineffective. Its the lack of BALLS.

Romair:``After all, Prophet Muhammad and his wife did run an import-export business that traded with all kinds of people with different religions. ``

Actually, Prophet Mohammad`s wife, Khadija ran the business, he was employed by her. She took a liking to him, was the one who proposed, she was 25 years his senior, a widow, who had been married before, it was his first marriage. Mohammad learnt alot from her and did not marry again while she lived. He got to travel and learn about other cultures and customs because of that job.

Once he received wahi and became focused with Islam, the business stopped. Not exactly sure what happened with it.

Mr Haroon Moghul,

Your article is in itself is an oxymoron. The title is : ``Why The OIC Is Not the Answer`` yet in it you suggest in the end that `` It is high time that we, the peoples of the Muslim Ummah, push for a true Organization of Islamic Cooperation ...``! Sounds like Musharaff`s ``real (true) democracy``.

Ever heard of the term humanity!

QuantumQuark

I am supporeter of belonging to as many international organizations, as possible, even if they are useless (like the OIC).
However, I have never quite been able to figure out this concept of Muslim Ummah. What exactly is an Ummah? And has it ever existed, other than in the initial stages of Islam? The answer would have to be a, ``No.``
During the life of Hazrat Ali, there was actually a battle between the forces of Hazrat Aisha and Hazrat Ali, in which some very prominent Sahaba died. After Hazrat Ali, the Muslim, ``Ummah`` ended up being a kingdom, with a Caliph, or smaller kingdoms with a bunch of Caliphs. That is what exists today. Hence, historically there is very little history of a united Muslim Ummah`s existence. If even the Sahaba (whether one looks at them from a religious point of view or a secular point of view, one has to agree they were the most successful people in the world, during their days) were fighting it out with each other, then one would have to say a united Ummah is not an easy concept to pull off.
In essence, there is no Islamic Ummah, other than in the idealistic minds of people who want there to be one. This maybe tragic, it may be uneconomical, but it is true. So what is the point of tying ones camel to something which doesn`t exist, in the hope that it may come into existence, someday.
Pakistani Muslims are treated like third class citizens by Arab Muslims (at least by the rich ones). Iraqi Muslims and Irani Muslims rencently finished a ruthless war. Iraq Muslims invaded Kuwait. Turkish Muslims kill Kurd Muslims. As do Iraqi Muslims. Pakistani Muslims and Bangladeshi Muslims went to war. Indian Muslims fight on the opposite side of Pakistani Muslims. Taliban Muslims fight Northern Alliance Muslims. The list goes on and on......
In such an atmosphere, with so many political anamolies (e.g. Kurds, Kashmiris, Turks and Pakistanis are predominantly all Muslim. But Turkey will not support Pakistan`s stance on Kashmir, because that would bind Turkey`s hands from killing its own Kurds. ), how can an Ummah exist.
I don`t think it is a practical idea to hope for an international organization with massive amount of co-operation just on the basis of religion (there is nothing wrong with basing it on a common religion. It`s just that it won`t work) . That will only work in an ideal society, in which each Muslim is willing to look after his other Muslim brother. In the current world, co-operation is based on common economic interests. Hence, Pakistanis need to try to become part of large economic unions, Muslim or otherwise. After all, Prophet Muhammad and his wife did run an import-export business that traded with all kinds of people with different religions.
The other even more important form of a union, would be one based on human rights. Unfortunately, such unions only exist in private organizational forms like AI, but do not exist at national organizations, involving countries (although the International Criminal Court etc. are trying to initiate this). If such a union does come into existence, then it should take action against human rights abusers all over the world, regardless of their religion and the amount of money they put into the world economies. Once that happens, the whole world will be a better place, for people of all religions.

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Why The OIC Is Not the Answer for “WE” the Muslims -- because in 2002 – there is no OBC to answer for “WE” the Buddhists –- no OHC for “WE” the Hindus – no OCC for “WE” the Christians.

The Delusional disease of Unionitis of Umma or Ummitis -- that the subcontinental Muslims uniquely suffer from – is a creation of their pathological attachment to a religion and the rootless ness brought by their twisted Psyche continually fed since childhood -- upon fairy tales of the glorious religious PAST – that never existed.

That mirage of Unity for the Muslims – was, is, and will be -- nothing but an illusion/delusion -- since the very beginning -- when they assassinated Omar while he was praying in the masjid – beheaded Osman while he was reading Koran – or cut into pieces prophet’s grandson Hussein when he was dying of thirst.

Let’s face it – today -- the only ‘Good Muslim’ is a BACKWARD Muslim -- ONLY hundred years behind the Christians – who were no better than us – BUT – that was hundred years ago -- when they also had their own OCC’s -- only to kill each other in the 100 year fratricidal Cristian wars of Europe.

But there is still hope for the Muslim if not in 2002 – in 2100 -- if we can get rid of IRRELEVANT organizations like OICs -- NOW.

hasan

So a free press that see it duty to : do exactly what? Tell the truth? financed by whom? Al-Jazeerah is heavily subsidized by Qatari authorities, but that`s not what we want, right?
``It is high time that we, the peoples of the Muslim Ummah, push for a true Organization of Islamic Cooperation, focusing on tangible goals: raising literacy, building schools, wells and roads, improving the status of women, increasing opportunities for higher education, promoting inter-Islamic tourism, trade and cultural cooperation, strengthening the Islamic family, supporting Muslim values, ethics and economic practices and so forth. Unity will only be established amongst those that understand the necessity of such unity, and the great sacrifices it entails.``
I`m confused, does such an agreement exist, to do the things you suggest? And is this a widespread, general agreement? Or will will it take some top down (OK, we`ll call it ``grass roots`` or some such) effort to create such an agreement? Don`t get me wrong I agree with the goals you mention. I`m all for secularization, just not secularism.

OIC may be useful for some other people or countries but it is useless for Pakistan. Actually it is harmful for Pakistan to be attached to this piece of sh1t. Pakistan, a poor third world country, should run for cover at the first sight of organized religions, religious organization, political organizations based on religions and international associations based on ``stincking heap of garbage`` heritage. Pakistan must be out only for Pakistan, Pakistanis, progress, trade, peace, good neighbors etcetra.

OIC may be useful for some other people or countries but it is useless for Pakistan. Actually it is harmful for Pakistan to be attached to this piece of sh1t. Pakistan, a poor third world country, should run for cover at the first sight of organized religions, religious organization, political organizations based on religions and international associations based on ``stinking heap of garbage`` heritage. Pakistan must be out only for Pakistan, Pakistanis, progress, trade, peace, good neighbors etcetra.