ISNA 39th Annual Conference

``the horrible hindoos in hindustan forgot to put heeng in their dal ......... ``

Hey dude, we only put heeng in One type of Dal. The yellow one. Most Indians, or should I say, Punjabis, eat Maa kee Daal, which is dark and we do not put heeng in it. We also eat Rajma, again, no heeng...

What;s the Paki fetish on Hindus and heeng anyways??? HamidM, Ayesha Sarwari etc etc...we don`t give you hell about putting cardomom or saffron in everything do we????

``i did not go to the gathering``(hamidm)

a sigh of relief!

For those of you who attended, was there any self-criticism on part of Muslims? self-criticism of islam, and the members of the community on a whole? if so, what was proposed as a process to a solution?

Is the purpose of ISNA gatherings merely a `get-together` event, or do those gatherings take up religious reformist agendas or do they aim to maintain conservative ideals?

sameerjb

.... sorry to disappoint you, but i did not go to the gathering of arabs and arab-wannabes who claim to be americans but yearn for an islamic state ...... it is shameful how these munafiqs and hypocrites showed up on the hallowed grounds of washington to claim their ``rights`` ..........also, mrs hamidm does not think it is a good idea to be exposed to these people more than twice a year lest i become a wife-beater, or give up shaving, or start belching at the dinner table, or become convinced that foreplay is haram ..........astaghfirllah!

This conference sure got a lot of attention.
Thanks for witing this piece on CHOWK.

Ras

samina
No.

Sameer,
The way you put it, I have to agree with you.

btw, post 9/11, didnot the FBI chief Louis Mueller attend a meeting of one of the `Muslim` associations and make a speech which said some harsh things. He still got criticised for attending the meeting, though. Was it an ISNA meeting he attended..?

``balehbaleh: you know hamidm if i ever see you remind me to cap your punk-ass.......................``

LOL, Somebody should knock u the fukk out for thinking that.

In response to PM, who wrote in #21:

``digit,
Well spoken there! (you know which number :)). I`ve always admired your great articulation. ``

Umm...I haven`t interacted yet! Heck, I just re-registered today for the snazzy new get-up here. Thanks for the compliment though! Back at you.


He further wrote:

``though, i would have to say, there was an oddly high number of people in the audience who, when taking the floor, referred to the Old Country as `home`-- a conflict there?``

This is an interesting thing you point out here. I`ve noticed that among Pakistani ex-pats, many have this notion that they have simply migrated to the US or Canada, and fantasize of returning back ``home`` one day. Perhaps what you were observing was a manifestation of this.

hamidm: Did you really go to ISNA meeting?
How come wives do not realize that once in heaven, their husbands will forsake them for 72 virgin houris? They should keep their husbands from becoming too good Muslims. Hell is the place where love from family will conquer fire and other hardships.
balehbaleh: What is good for you is not necessarily good for me and what I say is not for the sake of telling anybody what to do; I say what I believe!!!

Sadna,
Are you back from the motherland?

......... so after the ritual sacrifice of sheep and camels at the lincoln memorial, the 32,000 brothers and their sisters in deen raised the heavens with deafening takbeers and allah-0-akbars ........ it is said that the jews in haifa and their supporters on capitol hill shook in their shoes and the horrible hindoos in hindustan forgot to put heeng in their dal .........

......... isna 2002 passed many resolutions to create an islamic society in america :

.....yusuf islam`s committe on islamic music passed a resolution condemning britney spears for unislamic behaviour and asked for a ban on eminem........eminem quickly embraced islam and hugged yusuf islam and his mother .... mariah carey cried and retained a new fashion consultant from jiddah .........

.... the islamic sports committee presented a petition to the baseball commissioner asking for a sixth inning break for maghrib prayers - the players have threated to strike; they also asked the nba to lengthen basketball shorts by another ten inches and put an end to the nonsense of wnba ...... kobe bryant is moving to china ......

......... hot-dogs were baned for lewd presentation and halwa will replace apple-pie as the national desert; camels are being considered to replace chevrolet .............

....... the abaya and the hijab were recommended as the national dress for all americans .........the amish protested and moved to mexico ........

.......... a resolution was presented to place hazrat omar`s face on mount rushmore - this resolution was rejected and the presenter was reprimanded for this silly idea ....... an alternate proposal to blow up mount rushmore like the bamiyan buddhas was passed and will be presented to john ashcroft ..........

........ i also met temporal at the meeting - he has become a born again muslim and is moving to a madrassa in utah to teach grammer and study polygamy ..... we will miss him .......

balehbaleh,
Dude, I`m not the ``pc police``; there is no such thing as the ``pc police``.
The writer made his/her case, and people responded. It seems what bothers you is that the people asking these questions about the efficacy and insight of Pakistani-Americans organizing through religious beliefs are Pakistani Americans themselves....If you`ve noticed, so far no Hindu interactor has posted messages about the ISNA-its all coming from within....so bro, deal.

sadna: I agree that organizations enhance individual and group interests. But when group is made up of diverse individuals with only one thing in common, the focus is limited to the common interest.
Pakistani-Indian-Bangladeshi Muslims is the largest immigrant Muslim group, perhaps largest or second largest group of Muslims behind African American Muslims. Both of these groups can serve their common interests in many other ways. Although Arabs are more in numbers than desi Muslims but Arab immigrants to USA and Canada are predominantly Christians. For its 39 year of existance, ISNA is an Arab and Arab affairs dominated organization. Its literature usually talked about basic tenets of Islamic religions and its explanation ( a sort of tablighi jamaat) plus Palestine and later Bosnia. Nobody can provide a list of ISNA accomplishments of last 39 years because there are none. During Iranian Islamic revolution, ISNA was opposed to it, not because it was anti-American; because it was Shia Islam and ISNA and another student organization, MSA both were pro-Saudi and perhaps funded also by Saudis.
ISNA made no attempts to make Muslims adjust to USA/ Canada culture until 9/11 last year. Even then Arab-American organizations were leading the efforts to make USA public understand Arab and Islam better as ``peace-loving`` people and religion respectively. It is funny to know but couple of Pakistani students of Ohio State University did more to make a case against attacking Iraq during a debate with Madeleine Albright, Bill Cohen and Sandy Weinberger than all of ISNA and MSA combined.
Moreover, if benefits of an organization are practically nill and disadvantages many, why half a million Pakistanis should associate with such an organization? It is same one religion, one nation - Ummah concept that pulls Pakistanis towards or into it.
I said earlier and I repeat, Pakistani Americans are better off without ISNA and other anti-American organizations - if Pakistani Americans are pro-Pakistan before pro-Islam. Being pro-Islam is counter to being pro-Pakistan under the umbrella of MSA, ISNA and NOI of Louis Farakhan.
The problem with such people is really the reverse preferences. These full-time Muslims, part-time Pakistanis are real enemies of Pakistan both at home and abroad. Unfortunately they are blinded to an extent of not even considering this possibility. Can you imagine the amount of money spent by Pakistanis on this three day event could have been used to lobby Pakistan in Washington or better given to Edhi Foundation in Pakistan.

digit,
Well spoken there! (you know which number :)). I`ve always admired your great articulation.
I watched one of the symposiums of the conference on C-Span. The speeches were both pragmatic and inspiring, suggesting ways to counter the post-9/11 discrimination as well as ways to co-operate with the `mainstrem`, asserting one`s identity as American (though, i would have to say, there was an oddly high number of people in the audience who, when taking the floor, referred to the Old Country as `home`-- a conflict there?)
SammerJB: Brother, you... you.. overcompensate!

you know hamidm if i ever see you remind me to cap your punk-ass.......................

sameer

you should be ashamed of yourself, inferiority complex etc what garbage ................if people are practicing muslims who cares some pakistanis identify themselves as muslims some as south asians.................both are equally valid for you to denounce one and not the other shows only your bias and hatred toward islam.................i personally could care less for south asian american org.s or muslim american im asian american but thats my choice..............u know bashing islam is popular on this forum and what u know sameer ur posts sound like ursltruly jay arjun etc welcome to the club .............and where is the samina shah pc patrol ? oh yeah i forgot its ok to bash islam and practicing muslims and not everybody else.................................

````So Hamidm is after all a closet mullah```` (American Express)

Not hamidm -- he went to that Assembly of Misplaced Fools called ISNA(Islamic Society of Neanderthal Americans) -- as a chowk`s Investigative Reporter cum connoisseur of bizarre --- with his probably god-fearing wife and agnostic children:-

Its part of normal democratic culture when people with common interests organize like this, plumbers do it, businessmen do it, so do neighbourhood/ethnic/immigrant groups. Its supposed to help enhance individual and groups interests and capacity to pursue those interests, link meaningfully with other groups for general good, be a source of cohesion blah blah.

Whether all these good things follow from the functioning of a organisation all depends on the organisation, the goals it pursues and the manner in which functions, obviously. Any reason to think this organisation is not one of the `good` ones?

On a related matter, can someone give an an honest answer to my question - whether at this gathering funds were being collected for causes like Kashmir jihad?

Sameer,
You do bring up some good points about pan Asian organizing.

Hamidm2,
Click on the Chowk community tag up on your right hand screen, then click on Chowk Unplugged. When you get to that page, click on People-there`ll be an alphabet; click on H and look for your nick. Once you find your nick click on it and your member profile will appear. You will find yours empty-so go back onto the home page, and click on the ``edit profile`` thingy underneath your sign in section. You`ll be presented with your empty canvas into which you can pour your dreams, aspirations, vitals, reading lists and wacky foibles onto....plus we the interactors get to see how many stars we have awarded you....its all I can do to email someone and say, ``so what did I get? Repetitive? Needs a vacation to New Mexico?``....the funs just beggining.....

Empirical: Thannks for your comments. I would leave the discussion of inferiority complex to those who consider themselves as Muslims and also feel the backwardness of Muslim societies due to obsession with organized form of Isalam. I am very clear about my disassociation from organized as well as personal forms of Islam.
Being a born Pakistani, I have the right to indulge into any discussion that I deem harmful to the survival, success, progress and respect for Pakistan. I do not care about non-Pakistani participants of ISNA meeting because they are not my concern. For Pakistanis many better avenues are present to be heard politically, like south Asian, Asian American or Pakistani Americans. Culturally also many organizations like Urdu, Panjabi, Pushtu, Balochi, Sindhi, Pakistani organizations provide food for identity and culture hunger. ISNA can not ne any substitute for identity, culture, political or even spiritual because the spiritual aspects take back seat in ISNA. It is a shame and pathetic that some 2-4 million American Muslims have insecurities and need ISNA. It represents infwriority complex as well as clearly differentiating and opposing majority value system. What they do not realize is that majority value system is a successful one and their presence here is a testament to that success. They do not want to accept, adopt, respect, learn or merge but want to be understood, respected and treated as equal despite obsession with a distinct failed social value system. Such insecurities are common to much smaller groups like Hare Krishna, New Agers etc.
Fortunately most of the Pakistani Muslims do not buy this radically opposed and hateful inside and moderately understanding outside approach of ISNA and the likes.
This is the worst kind of hypocritical bunch. At home they teach their children to be wary of successful culture and brag about the superiority of a system whose failure caused them to immigrate to the heathen successful cultures on the first place. Given the choice more than half the Muslim population of the world would run away from Muslim majority countries for the sake of becoming a minority. Once accepted, they try to create little enclaves of the sweet memories of generations upon generations of failures and injustices, based on religion. The cultural and ethnic enclaves are not resentful of other enclaves the way religious exclusiveness is. Ethnic enclaves do not look across the street and conclude everybody hell-bound.
The association with ISNA is more of a dissociation from everybody else who does not follow the final message. Why should Pakistanis be part of a group that is based on dissociation from Chinese, Japanese or Indians? Pakistanis should be part of good Asian American community so that more Pakistani immigrants are allowed in, so that Pakistanis face no harassment, so that Pakistan have good relationship with USA and Canada. How can Pakistanis be too associated with ISNA and simultaneously complaining about deportation and unfair treatment of illegal Pakistanis?
Desi American, Asian American, South Asian American...Yes, ISNA...No!
Non-Religious Organizations.......Yes, Religious Organizations......No!

.. .....since this is a brand new chowk i have decided to adopt a brand new identity - name, beard, maswak, watwani, lota and all ....... so i was there at this gathering of desert bedouins and arab wannabes with their women dressed in abayas and their moon faced little girls wrapped in cahaddors and hijabbs ...... they prayed and debased themselves at least five times a day, and then went on to eat biryani with their fingers and rant and rave about how their fellow american citizens do not treat them like one of their own ......... ...these fellow americans - irish, italian and horrible hindoo - were sitting at the bar, drinkin beer and tallking about taking down sad-am and osama and abdul who have been stiffin them ............... the ummah, caught up in religious frenzy, was quite unaware that their fellow americans were worried about other things like the baseball strike and the west nile virus and jerry springer .........

......... it was a most unamerican gathering - no hot dogs, no beer, no country western music and no fun at all ............ i don`t think i will go back next year ..........i`d rather go the southern baptist convention where the men discreetly drink out of brown bags and the women fix a mean chilli ............or maybe i will go to the horrible hindoo convention and smear myself with red paint and cow dung .............


............ and who is giving out thiese stars ?

re: stuka # 5

I KNOW you are being mischievous there :)

NO religion outlaws independent thinking. It is true that Islamists, like their counterparts in other religions, have skillfully deployed endless, intellectually empty gobbledygook to keep many Muslims enslaved to narrowness and irrationality. But those days are coming to an end. We all, including Muslims, are waking up to our true relationship with God, to genuine spirituality, and the use of our God-given brains. People like Tahmed and many others (including Scout) are living, no, shining, examples of this great human awakening.

That doesn`t mean I oppose such gatherings. If folks just met together to address community concerns, help each other, pray to God, then all power to them. If, however, it is another expression of Ummitis, then these gentlemen and ladies/ or their children will soon be in trouble.

There are some basic laws of nature, and nobody - not even people with the best of intentions - can escape them.

re: sameerjb #2

...exactly...

Also, I want no stars for Urstuly`s ratings.

Dear Scout #1,

Point taken, though a religion that doesn`t believe in clergies and religious middlemen should not be boxed with other organised religions. No?

Of course, those who try to stop such stupidities as worshipping at shrines etc. are immediately named Wahhabi...but there you go. You can`t win all the time.

Best wishes.
Umer M.

Was the issue of tolerance addressed at this conference? Did any of the participants feel that the form of govt systems needed to be Islamacized? How did the participants view themselves as Muslims living in America?

Naeem,

Thanks for the report and commentary. I watched part of the conference on CSPAN and some of speeches made a lot of sense to me.

I hope that hate filled comments like #2 won`t deter you from interacting here.

Scout:

``they will die alone, and that all that is truly significant is their personal, individual relationship with God and the good they`ve done in life. ``

Jeez, are you sure you haven`t turned agnostic? I completely believe in what you say, and though I refer to myself as Hindu, the term has more of a community based rather than a religious reference to me. In a religious sense, I am agnostic. Do you realize the depth of what you are saying? Islam and Christianity are religions of the book and do not allow for such an independent thinking.

PEACE & JUSTICE?

Mr. Randhawa,

Welcom to Chowk. Thanks for writing this reportage, which are desperately needed at this time.

At this time when anti-Muslim bigotry is being institutionalized in the American system, we desperately need more and more of the gatherings like ISNA. At the current time if these orgs choose not to become active in community realtions, and choose to keep quiet, there is nothingin the world that can prevent future Muslim generations from becomming the ``New Niggers`` of USA.

Now it does not matter whether you are a practicing Muslim or pork eating, alcohol imbibing ape trying to be more loyal than the king, the massive deportations and confinement in concentration camps is just a terrorist attack away.

It is not the time to sit back. It is time to show what you are, and what you beleive in.

Ref Reply #2 SameerJB

I couldnt seem to figure out where your animosity was directed. Towards the conference, the community or to the religion. I guess it must be all three. The alternatives to attending the conference as u described were spending the money on vacations or charity. I would assume that the people who attended the conference had the same objectives in mind. I am sure you completely failed to see that.

As for your last comments OIC and ICNA, i would recommend that you take these ideas to the ``world leaders``.. they would be more eager to listen to your insecurities arising from a deeply ingrained inferiority complex.

I can understand your liking for western norms, ideals and social practices, however deriving a stronger sense of association with it, by demeaning another community and its habbits doesnt suit any civilized individual.

Naseem,

Excellent article. I felt that ISNA was a very inspiring collection of lecturers, especially Dr. Mokhtar Maghroui, who honestly challenged my faith as it has never been challenged before. I particularly liked the emphasis on increasing spirituality and faith and lessening our dependence on politics as the goal in all our endeavors. The naysayers are just a waste of time -- you may feel free to ignore them. We Muslims have to continue to develop a global consciousness.

But the best part of ISNA was that I met so many Muslims in America that are amazingly hard-working, intelligent, active and religious. Muslims in prestigious law schools, business schools, doctors, scientists, thinkers, activists, etc., all of them networking.

The article was appreciated for reflecting this.

Even excluding the longterm negative impact, what a waste of time (3 x 8 x 32000 hrs), money and vacation time. All to listen to same old blah blah, recycled from different mouths. Each and every one of these 32000 fools could have spent this money on themselves, their children, poor relatives, recognized charities or increased their savings. With this money, each one could have bought some good books and good misic CDs.
I think ISNA and OIC should be merged, sealed in thickwalled lead containers, otherwise used for storing radioactive waste, and buried at the bottom of the pacific ocean at the deepest point.