Islamic Utopia?

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Urstruly (#151):

You may also predict that the sun will rise tomorrow … but that does not mean anything. I hope you have better ways to attempt to prove your intelligence. On the other hand believing in prophets living in the heavens … or raising the dead … indicate lack of intelligence. I hope you can appreciate this basic point.

I can explain … how you initially ignored the issue of prophet-in-the-sky … then tried to distance your Islam from it … took a stance against Maudoodi and your mullahs … became silent when I highlighted your contradictions … and are now back to flip-flopping your position on this issue.

But before this … you should acknowledge … your continued silence on a host of issues I highlighted in post #146. No sane person can subscribe to such absurdities.

Also … the issue is not “dead prophets waiting in heaven” … as you suggested in #108. It is … a prophet living in the skies for two thousand years … who will finally descend to earth. Your flip-flopping position is further highlighted by the fact that … despite my prodding you on this issue for almost a year (or more?) … all you seem to be suggesting now is that you have not taken a position on this issue yet.

Any position you take … will only highlight absurdities and contradictions in your Islam. And that’s the dilemma you are faced with ... which explains your silence on various issues I have highlighted.

Adnan (#123),

Obviously you are not bothered by your inability to explain absurdities in your Islam. Your concern should not be Ahmadi beliefs … rather your own beliefs here.

You have missed the point. One’s belief … is a personal matter … and becomes important only when it is used to perpetuate oppression and violence. Your Islam may tell you to believe in flying prophets … and that’s just fine. However, when you perpetuate violence in the name of religion … your Islam becomes a dubious, barbaric ideology, designed for political purposes by power-hungry mullahs.

Before discussing other issues … you should recall our earlier debate regarding meaning of “Khattam-un-Nabiyeen”. You gave your reasons for interpreting it one way … and challenged me to respond. I pointed out flaws in your reasoning … but you failed to do acknowledge this.

Now, flaws in your reasoning, would not have necessarily dictated how “khattam” should be interpreted. All it meant was that … the reason you are giving me … is not valid. You failed to appreciate this simple point and turned a blind eye towards inconsistencies in your approach.

I also proposed, on basis of Quran, why “khattam” should be interpreted as “ultimate”. You failed to respond to my arguments.

I further quoted some well-respected scholars from Islamic history … who supported Ahmadi interpretation of “khattam”. Here, your counter-argument was that … these scholars are smaller in number than those who think otherwise … and therefore must be wrong.

Such absurdity … as displayed by … you made me realize futility of discussing other issues with you.

I can easily respond to your comments against Mirza Sahib and Ahmadi beliefs … since they are based on selective and out-of-context accounts of events. But before we do that … let’s first finish our earlier debate … where I highlighted flaws in your interpretation of khattam … which you failed to acknowledge.

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Sattar

Just as I predicted in #108 that you wont answer it; your reply # 146 doesn`t qualify as an answer by any stretch of imagination.

Aamir (#118):

As a Muslim, I believe that original teachings of all revealed religions … Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Daoism, Hinduism, Zorastrianism (sp?), Islam, and many more … were revealed by the same God Almighty. All religions implore the followers to worship God Almighty … and have love and compassion for all of God’s creations. This is consistent with the message of Quran, where Gracious and Merciful Allah Almighty tells us that messengers have been sent to all nations through the course of human history.

As I understand it … man-made distortions have crept in all religions over time … message of peace is lost to human tendencies for violence and power abuse, men are given god-like status, super-natural traits get ascribed to mere mortals, and more.

Islam, as I understand it, is a religion for all mankind, unlike other religions, which were transient in their teachings, and addressed time-specific needs of specific nations. In its true sense, Islam validates the prophethood of prophets sent to various nations (these include Krishna, Ram, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Zaratushtra, Confucius) … and gives a unified message of oneness of God and brotherhood of all mankind. It teaches us to live by principles of justice and peace in our communities, to treat everyone with extreme love and affection, and to exist in harmony with our Creator, with each other, and within ourselves.

Quran tells believers not to force Islam on others. Believers are commanded only to convey the message of Islam to others … and leave religion as a matter between each person and God Almighty. It forbids coercion in such matters and allows freedom of one’s conscience.

I pick on mainstream Islam for its absurdities … to highlight the contradictions in mullahs’ understanding of Islam … which is often used as a tool to justify violence against others. Specifically, the tiny Ahmadi-Muslim community has been the target of mullah’s vile persecution for over half a century, and as an Ahmadi, I find it disturbing … and at times poke fun at mullah’s understanding of Islam. In essence … this humor is directed against religious persecution of anyone … not just Ahmadi-Muslims.

Another post and another quote. This time from chowk archives. This was written by Zeejah, the piece was titled ``Murder Most Foul``. This article previously appeared in newsline.

``... The rest of the sordid story is well known, how Hina Jillani sat in on the meeting, barely escaping with her life; how Mohtarama entered on the arm of her part-time chauffeur; how Saima prepared to run when she saw him; how he shot her in the head; how her mother and uncle (who waited downstairs) took a hostage while escaping; how the uncle congratulated the father on the success of the `mission`. So much for `Pathan` values. Pathans are known to honour their word over their lives. ...``

O, light of ijtihad, please show me the way from this dark horror of Islam.

-einsteinwallah

A quote from following URL: http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15-1-2000/Art5.htm (AT THE THRESHHOLD OF A NEW MILLENNIUM–II, By Zafarul-Islam Khan):

``Much of our internal problems may be traced to the self-imposed decadence and the self-created ideological vacuum. After the Mongol invasion in the thirteenth century, our scholars closed the doors of ijtihad, i.e., independent reasoning and inference about new issues and situations which keep arising because human society by its very nature is in constant flux and in an ever-changing ferment. Only animals are unable to plan any change in their lives. New situations and challenges crop up all the time in every human society. And only those societies succeed and grow which accept new challenges and take the trouble of solving their problems in time.

Islam had foreseen this problem and to tackle it had created the institution of ijtihad, reasoning or inference by scholars, as the fourth source of Islamic rules after the Qur’an, Sunnah and ijmac, that is consensus of the scholars. The institution of ijtihad had emerged during the very life-time of the Prophet. Perhaps I do not have to remind you that at the time of despatching Mu’adh, may Allah be pleased with him, as governor of the Yemen in 9H/630-1CE, the Prophet asked him how he was going to give his rulings. Mu’adh replied that I will rely on the Book of Allah, then on the Sunnah of His Prophet. And if I do not find anything in these sources I will use my reasoning. The Prophet was very pleased with this reply.``

In other words Book of Allah and Sunnah of His Prophet constitute those parts of a constitution of Islam which cannot be amended. Will such castrated ijtihad do the job?

A question: where is the word jihad mentioned in these sources? If jihad is not mentioned in these two sources then rest of the world can hope to live in next millenium without fear of being wiped out by muslims.

If rest of the world has doubt about Islamists giving up the terroristic version of the concept of jihad, then it is the muslim world who will live in fear.

Also somebody mentioned apostasy. Are the prescriptions against apostatsy also in these two sources?

-einsteinwallah

Urstruly Sahib (#108, 119):

You are demanding a reply from me the same day. I do have other responsibilities … besides responding to your posts, Sahib.

By the same token … you should also have explained issues that I raised many months ago … that you continue to be silent on. These include …

- Jesus raising the dead [this idea makes no sense at all]
- Moses given the miracle of magic, since magic was practiced by people in ancient times [same as above]
- Your approval of early Christians being fed to the lions [religious persecution … your disapproval would have been appropriate]
- Your tacit approval of verdict of scholars in attempting to crucify Jesus [same as above]
- “Dishonest” and “un-Islamic” works of the ”fat-butt, lethargic mullahs” [your ullema in your own words … what can I say?]
- Killing apostates [sheer barbarism … disapproved of in Quran]
- Waging jihad against polytheists … [same as above]
- Furthermore, on the blasphemy board … where you supported killing for blasphemy… you invited me to respond … but became silent and stopped responding when I countered your arguments.

Clearly you are unable to intelligently explain your Islam … but are too embarrassed to admit this … and here you want my immediate response!

Moving on …

In my post #116 to Ashok, I explained the dilemma of mainstream Islam … and inherent contradictions embedded in it. If that interests you … you should find my explanation adequate for now … and should have something intelligent to say.

I’ll let you ponder over this post for now. Feel free to share any reasonable thoughts you may have …

Still convinced that racial profiling does not effect brown non-muslims? Even Booker Prize nominee Rohinton Mistry is not safe.

ARTS ABROAD
For Canada`s Top Novelists, Being Born Abroad Helps
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS
New York Times
November 4, 2002


``_ _ _ _Mr. Mistry`s publicist at Knopf, Jill Morrison, said he decided last week to cancel a six-city American tour that was supposed to have begun today in Salt Lake City because of harassment he suffered because of his color on a previous tour at the end of September and in early October. She said the incidents occurred at La Guardia Airport and in Washington and Minneapolis_ _ _``

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I don`t want to jump into this mess..... but the attached news item was really interesting. Are cows and calfs on the endangered speicies list in India ? or are cows really believed to be sacred animals ? What happened to the brahmins who killed the dalits that killed the cow ? Is it against the law to kill a cow in India ? what if you own the cow ? What if you want to kill a chicken that you own ? What if you kill a couple of dalits that you don`t own ?

holy cow ! India really is messed up.

Three dalits thrashed for allegedly skinning calf
Three dalits were thrashed and handed over to the police for allegedly skinning a calf before elders in Panipat district, Haryana, found them not guilty on Tuesday.
The three, residents of Chamra village in Panipat, were caught on Sunday.

A panchayat ``unanimously`` resolved that the dalits were not guilty, as the calf was already dead, Haryana assembly Speaker Satbir Kadian said.

Following the ruling, the three were released, the sources said.

The incident came just 20 days after the killing of the five dalits in Dulina village of Jhajjar district for allegedly skinning a cow.

dear paki haters:

uncle sam pays up $7 b to clean up the mess created by paki army in the first place. and i should be the one complaining? personally, i am laughing all the way to the bank because i had shiltload of cash sunk in karachi stock exchange which in case you have not noticed has doubled since sep 11.

what have you guys got from uncle sam besides escaping the formality of not being finger printed upon arrival in the u.s.? seems to me that uncle sam continues to put a higher value on an american life in comparison to an indian life. otherwise why else would it support the butcher of kargill? and when will you guys gather the courage to confront uncle sam on this. oh sorry, i forget, you are the ones who stood idly by for 800 years while all your temples in north india were being destroyed by two-bit invaders who could not make it big in west asia.