Bitter, Not Sweet

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Bart #53

Of course I called for the application of terror to the people connected with its sponsorship in Pakistan. Not all Pakistanis -- but why should you bother with what I said?

Enjoy your liberal dream world in which excesses and mob violence in Gujarat (in 2002) are identical to a 20 year state-funded proxy war. Only a deeply confused person would feel that one excused the other.

Sadna:

You seem very focused with your Jihad to paint Pakistan bad. The Americans know how much cooperation the Pakistanis have extended and I as a Pakistani am happy about these extremist elements being captured. India tried as hard as it could to gyrate its hips do what it could, to tie al-qaeda, kashmir, pakistan into one knot. It does not seem to have worked.

Regarding the kutte ke dum, its all relative, maybe the dum is already seedhi and its the kutta thats bent out of shape.

Peace.

pmishra2
Its like trying to straighten a kutte-ki-dum.

When Imran Khan or any other prominent leader openly supports jihad or Pakistanis protest Pakistan joining the war against Taliban, then violence in Karachi or elsewhere is not considered to be a consequence of such attitudes. Then, too, being a `pawn of the US` is the issue.

Its as if the period between 1989 to 2001 when US took no interest in jihad and Pakistanis were left to make of their jihad strategy what they would never existed.

The sad fact is that many elite Pakistanis consider themselves next-best goras and consider the US govt is more accountable to them than their own.

harimau#54
- I don`t see how these accounts explain america helping taliban
- but boy was that funny!!! thank you, for quoting that - you should expand on that and write an article -- this is religion in the making in Tamil Nadu - and you are at the right time and place? to report it. It would be a hilarious article!!!!
Brat

Ref arjun_m #44
[#36 by soysauce on September 13, 2002
++
According to some accounts america helped the taliban to power,
++
and which accounts would those be? Please dont waste bandwidth by posting shireen mazari`s tripe.]
Please do not expect anything except rote memorization and regurgitation from Inji-kari-kuzhambu. His entire life is one of accepting mindless tripe from the Doctor Artist Leader and using that to justify his entitlements.
Let me give you one example of what passes for logic in the land of the Java code coolies (otherwise called Tamil Nadu). Recently, a temple in Karur, a provincial town, decided to hold a religious celebration to sanctify the temple after major reconstruction. This is pretty much standard procedure. The priests opined that the ceremony should be conducted with Vedic mantras in Sanskrit. Some part of the local population, which saw a political opportunity, demanded that the ceremony be conducted in Tamil. The Shankaracharya of Kanchi and several other religious leaders expressed the opinion that since the temple was originally sanctified under Agama rites using Sanskrit, the ceremony should follow that tradition.
In the event, the Tamil crowd carried the day and the ceremony was performed in Tamil. Doctor Artist Leader, (you must realize that NO ONE in Tamil Nadu gets referred to by his given name and is always respectfully addressed by any number of honorifics; Doctor Artist Leader being the former Chief Minister Karunanidhi {literally, Fund of Compassion}) thundered that the Gods who do not know or understand Tamil do not need to be present in Tamil Nadu and those who believe that Gods do not understand Tamil can leave the state.
The thought that occurred to me was: will the Fund of Compassion and Fount of Rationalist Thought go to the mosque in the Thousand Lights area of Chennai and declare that the Allah who demands to be worshipped in Arabic and not in Tamil should leave Tamil Nadu taking along with him all those who pray in Arabic?
Of course not!
The same thought was echoed by the leader of the Hindu Front in his newspaper interview.
I would like to know that idiot Sangilikkaruppan`s thoughts on the matter.
Before that idiot attempts to rationalize this by saying that there was a difference of opinion amongst Hindus over the language of worship whereas there is none among the Muslims, one must remember that this idiot conveniently forgets the fact that the issue of language in Hindu worship was raised by the Doctor Artist Leader himself during his tenure in office. The man who set the fire is now stoking it.
I do have a suggestion for Sangilikkaruppan. He can become a priest at the Khushbambika Temple in Trichy where he can offer worship in his beloved Tamil language.
Khushbambika is the personification (or, is it deification?) of the movie actress Khushboo. The level of insanity in Tamil Nadu is so high that the locals have erected a temple to Khushboo and are handing out kumkum (vermillion) as prasad to all visitors. The fact that Khushboo is a Muslim girl does not seem to faze these crazies and Sangilikkaruppan is likely to tout this as yet another manifestation of secularism.
Note to non-Tamil Chowkies: The story about the Khushbambika Temple is NOT made up. One does NOT have to make up any stories about Tamil Nadu and its movie mania. There are several TV channels dedicated to showing movies, song sequences from movies, trailers of movies yet to be released, etc. I count Jaya TV (Jayalalitha, the current Chief Minister and former movie actress owns this), K TV (named for Karunanidhi, the Fund of Compassion), Sun TV (owned by Kalanidhi {literally, Fund of Art} Maran, nephew of the Fund of Compassion), Raj TV, Raj TV Digital Service, Vijaya TV, Doordarshan-Chennai and SCV (supposedly this stands for Simran channel, Simran being a Punjabi import to Tamil filmdom). A few days watching TV in Chennai will convince you that the Taliban were on to a good thing when they banned TV in Afghanistan.
Note to Sangilikkaruppan: Just like the Oduvaars sing Thevarams in Shiva temples, may I suggest that you sing ``Ottakatthaik kattikko`` at the Khushbambika Temple?

pmishra2 # 51

Sorry my list of people who call themselves Indian and revel in kicking someone when they are down -- was not exhaustive. Did I leave you out? Oh, please go and call all of your friends and band together to call me an apologist, moron and whatever else. It`ll be quite a refreshing change.

Do you read news exclusively with the lens that - let me see - who can I blame about this? What, when you were a kid someone told you that those big bad Pakistanis have made our lives miserable and unless we do something about them we won`t have peace? Or did they tell you that as a hindu (if you are one) you have to right all the wrong done to Hindus by Muslims?

Talking of people being killed, what about the Muslims that were killed in Gujrat? Who paid or trained those Hindus? (or did you not see pictures of that being splashed across papers?) Oh no, sorry I forgot that was justified -- right? Well perhaps these people in Kashmir feel that what they do is justified -- but because of that you can`t very well choose to point your dirty fingers at any Pakistani that you see. To use a cliche a few are pointing back at you by the same token.

Your personal belief about terror and it`s use to make people realize things is eerily similar to that exercised by Al Qaida -- hold on have I discovered something - it`s not Israelies -- it`s RSS, Hindu Maniacs who are the thugs in the thick with Osama???


Bina #52

Thank you Bina. I````m glad you will not be put by such people. Please do keep writing, I enjoy your articles and interactions immensely.

Brat

HXN:

I will not acknowledge that I ``brought this on myself``. I wasn`t sitting at the table agreeing with the ISI when they decided to bring on their Taliban policy (I must have been all of, oh, say, twelve years old then?). I wasn`t part of the cabal that decided to fund OBL against the Russians. I didn`t go on the streets urging young boys to go over to Kashmir and Afghanistan and give up their lives for someone else`s fight.

Personally I care more about what happens to Sindh (and Pakistan) than Kashmir. Let Kashmir be independent, or part of Pakistan, or part of India, or all of India`s, whatever. I really don`t think my country and its 130+ million citizens should be made to suffer for some generals` misguided visions about Kashmir and Afghanistan.

I want recognition for the fact that my city and my country and its citizens are pawns in this game of power politics, played by the same players that were calling the shots thirty years ago. Same game, different name.

Bitter diatribe? You bet. Applaud me and laugh when I write funny things that point out the idiocy ever present in Pakistani society. Abuse me when I write about the pain and fear that convulses us when another bomb explodes, another Daniel Pearl occurs, another riot kills innocent people. But take your sanctimonious, self-righteous, moral superiority and try it on someone else. It won`t work on me.

Brat #49

Please do stop calling yourself an Indian. How about calling yourself a moron?

Do you read the news at all? how many 100 indians have been killed in J&K in the last two weeks alone? And who is paying and training for these people?

My personal belief is that until members of the Pakistani elite (say for example wife and children of army people) are victims of terror there will be no end to the export of terror. So, while we all deplore killing of civilians, it is good to know that ``freedom struggle`` enjoyed by indians in Jammu and Kashmir has also arrived in Pakistan. Enjoy ! And remember dont rush to judgement: a person commits a suicide bombing only when they are desperate for freedom etc.

hxn #48

I`m ashamed to be called an Indian when I meet people like yourself or arjun_m or previously rsaxena -- who care enough only to point fingers at the Pakistani Chowkies and throw whatever problems that the media cares to flaunt!

What has *your* country done in 50 years? Are you claiming that you`re not a hypocrite? This piece was not about hypocrisy. It was about someone who looks at their home and feels pain, and shares that with you.

Are you saying that the little girl who got shot/unconscious in this episode brought it upon herself? Did the kids who were born in Pakistan/Iraq/Afghanistan bring it upon themselves ? Should they acknoweldge their mistake before your royal highness concedes to shed a tear for them?

Of course no one from *your* part of the world does any injustice? RIGHT?
Brat
ps: What do you really know about Pakistan or Pakistanis?

To bina shah

“Where was the acknowledgement for what we’ve suffered, here in Pakistan?”

so self-righteous. I’ll acknowledge you’ve suffered once you acknowledge that you brought it on yourself.

Pakistani “moderates” like you are the real problem b/c your hypocrisy is what allows terrorism to flourish.

What do I mean? Let’s see.

You’re probably a western educated Pakistani who thinks she believes in democracy and pluralism. Hmm. 1947 pretty much contradicts anything you think you might know about tolerance. And democracy? Most Pakistanis are so obsessed with Kashmir that they’ve sold their country to any and all nutcase jihadis in the hope that these psychos can win you that precious real estate.

…And if these psychos happen to plan one of the most evil acts of mass murder in modern times from your neighborhood? Not your problem, eh?

And if these psychos bring their violence to Karachi? You’re shocked ~ shocked!

And you want recognition for your “suffering”?! explain that to the families of 9-11 victims.

Reap the whirlwind, ms. Shah.

p.s. its a damn shame what pakistan has done to karachi these past 50 yrs

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I work in mid-town manhattan close to the Roosevelt hotel where Musharraf is staying. The security around the hotel needs to be seen to be believed. There are sharp-shooters on top of the Bear Stearns building, pacing up and down overlooking the hotel. The Two adjoining streets have been blocked off and lanes close to the hotel in the other two have been closed. Yesterday after work when the motorcade was returning from the General Assembly, all pedestrians and traffic was stopped... this one bystander casually stepped off the sidewalk and the doors of a suburban burst open and 2 security agents pointed guns at the bystander asking him not to move !

Never like this before.. way too crazy and jumpy.

Contrary to the delusionists (whether in Asia Times or Chowk) there is less and less interest in Pakistan and India. The main action is in Iraq and thats where Bushie is focussed.

A belief that because Musharraf met with media figures, somehow this is wonderful betrays colossal ignorance of history. Useful dictators, whether Marcos or the Shah of Iran have always been courteously treated by their US masters. Often, they have been asked to address media people with their peculiar theories on inapplicability of democracy to their respective countries.

As a resident of the US, let me assure you that deepest suspicion of Pakistan and its progeny is alive and well. The daily reports of massacres by Jihadists in Jammu and Srinagar are also viewed by the reading and thinking public.

The general has been paid for its services and received a nice thank you. Beyond that, the party is pretty much over for him here.