Bina Shah September 11, 2002
#10 Posted by Karakoram on September 12, 2002 6:53:09 am
sadna:``Your own taxpayer money was spent from mid 1990s to Oct 2001 to support Bin Laden and Taliban militarily in the war they were fighting. Inspite of this Bin Laden and Taliban got the bombs dropped on them, while the Pakistani government got the dollars. ``
US tax payer money was spent in the 1980s to create many Bin Ladens and to fund the holy war against the soviets. Everyone got the dollars then. The choice for Pakistan this time was too easy: Isolation, bombs and being controlled by freaks and fundamentalism OR dollars, clean-up of terrorist groups, and improved communication with the world.
I do understand your point about mourning your dead though. Not only Pakistan, but most developing countries have less respect for their own citizens and lives. I don`t believe its a cultural or religous trait, its got to do with having a sense of belonging to a community, charity, etc. and that has to be developed.
US tax payer money was spent in the 1980s to create many Bin Ladens and to fund the holy war against the soviets. Everyone got the dollars then. The choice for Pakistan this time was too easy: Isolation, bombs and being controlled by freaks and fundamentalism OR dollars, clean-up of terrorist groups, and improved communication with the world.
I do understand your point about mourning your dead though. Not only Pakistan, but most developing countries have less respect for their own citizens and lives. I don`t believe its a cultural or religous trait, its got to do with having a sense of belonging to a community, charity, etc. and that has to be developed.
#9 Posted by sac on September 12, 2002 6:53:09 am
A friend tells me the whole shootout was beamed live on the new channel GEO started by the Jang group. Welcome to COPS!!
It was not too long ago that kids on their way to Princetons and Harvards were shown in elite schools in Pakistan thumping their chests and claiming Bin Laden was a hero. There is another writeup in the current issue of Time magazine about a teenage Pakistani who talks about the adulation Bin Laden gets in top girls schools in Pakistan. Granted most of these kids will not turn into suicide bombers but why take a chance? The kids with acceptance letters in their drawers will end up wherever they want eventually. This is the perfect time for them to reflect on what a massive responsibility awaits them should they choose to return to their motherlands.
later
-sac
It was not too long ago that kids on their way to Princetons and Harvards were shown in elite schools in Pakistan thumping their chests and claiming Bin Laden was a hero. There is another writeup in the current issue of Time magazine about a teenage Pakistani who talks about the adulation Bin Laden gets in top girls schools in Pakistan. Granted most of these kids will not turn into suicide bombers but why take a chance? The kids with acceptance letters in their drawers will end up wherever they want eventually. This is the perfect time for them to reflect on what a massive responsibility awaits them should they choose to return to their motherlands.
later
-sac
#7 Posted by sadna on September 11, 2002 11:07:29 pm
I mourn the tragic loss of the little four-year old girl. Everyone else in this story is yet to deserve sympathy.
1000s of Pakistanis(and their parent organisations in Karachi propagating their anti-West cause without government objections for more than a decade ) didnot believe enough in the US promise of `liberty and justice for all` and preferred an Afghan visa to die for Bin Laden.
Your own taxpayer money was spent from mid 1990s to Oct 2001 to support Bin Laden and Taliban militarily in the war they were fighting. Inspite of this Bin Laden and Taliban got the bombs dropped on them, while the Pakistani government got the dollars.
What sacrifice are you talking of?
You have to learn to mourn your own dead (all of them) before you can expect others to offer condolences.
#6 Posted by Cemendtaur on September 11, 2002 10:49:51 pm
Congratulations to Chowk staff for giving this website an excellent face-lift. I assume Ginni Dhindsa of Chowk has put in an ungodly amount of time in this.
C.
C.
#5 Posted by eslurf on September 11, 2002 9:21:04 pm
You sure as hell don`t get to see the truth on CNN :-)
Just the American Version of it.
Packaged and Presented for the American Public...
I often wonder if they really tell the public the truth or just jazz up propaganda sometimes...
Not that I have anything against it.
I try to watch Al - Jazeera or Saudi TV (channel 22 riyadh) or read their website (in english)
http://www.cursor.org/aljazeera.htm
One should actually visit websites run by governments of surrounding arab countries to get a broader perspective..
or perhaps their own version of propaganda...
who knows really...... !
Just the American Version of it.
Packaged and Presented for the American Public...
I often wonder if they really tell the public the truth or just jazz up propaganda sometimes...
Not that I have anything against it.
I try to watch Al - Jazeera or Saudi TV (channel 22 riyadh) or read their website (in english)
http://www.cursor.org/aljazeera.htm
One should actually visit websites run by governments of surrounding arab countries to get a broader perspective..
or perhaps their own version of propaganda...
who knows really...... !
#4 Posted by SameerJB on September 11, 2002 9:06:10 pm
Bina: The blame for our regrets lies right at our own doorstep as ferozk just wrote (post #2). some 20+ years ago, a mf general got 2 squadrons of F-16 for getting us in the mess. This time another ah general is asking for 70, i.e., 4 squadrons for our involvement and next time another bc general will ask for 8 squadrons of F-16s. That is the price we ask and get for our involvement.
Look at the positive side. So many illiterate Pakistani males will end up in heaven plus so many F-16s, parked facing Mecca. Who cares about Karachi? Don`t we appreciate verses like, ``tu shaheeN hey basaira ker pahaRoN kee chatanuN maiN``? The right place for good Muslim aka shaheens is tore bora mountains.
Let`s keep Pakistan as ``Nahi An`il Munkiristan`` and see it spiralling down to dark ages and anarchy. Say no to kafirs, imperialism, western culture, USA, profanity, decadence, pornography, alcohol, pork, liberal education, godless science and technology, shaving legs,............say yes to nothing!
Look at the positive side. So many illiterate Pakistani males will end up in heaven plus so many F-16s, parked facing Mecca. Who cares about Karachi? Don`t we appreciate verses like, ``tu shaheeN hey basaira ker pahaRoN kee chatanuN maiN``? The right place for good Muslim aka shaheens is tore bora mountains.
Let`s keep Pakistan as ``Nahi An`il Munkiristan`` and see it spiralling down to dark ages and anarchy. Say no to kafirs, imperialism, western culture, USA, profanity, decadence, pornography, alcohol, pork, liberal education, godless science and technology, shaving legs,............say yes to nothing!
#3 Posted by PM on September 11, 2002 8:46:37 pm
Bina,
Unfortunate as the deaths in karachi and elsewhere in Pakistan as fall out of our alignment (and my blood boils as much as anyone`s on this), you have to consider that the reason condolences may not be forthcoming from world leaders is the fact that we had some part to play in nurturing these terrorist elements when it suited us. That Big Brother did too, is somehting of common knowledge, but the prerogative of power speaks it`s own language. Always has, always will. `tis best we take it all on the chin (lick our wounds?) and live to fight the next day. Expecting shabahshes and complaining when they dont come isn`t going to help our self respect any.
rgds,
PM
Unfortunate as the deaths in karachi and elsewhere in Pakistan as fall out of our alignment (and my blood boils as much as anyone`s on this), you have to consider that the reason condolences may not be forthcoming from world leaders is the fact that we had some part to play in nurturing these terrorist elements when it suited us. That Big Brother did too, is somehting of common knowledge, but the prerogative of power speaks it`s own language. Always has, always will. `tis best we take it all on the chin (lick our wounds?) and live to fight the next day. Expecting shabahshes and complaining when they dont come isn`t going to help our self respect any.
rgds,
PM
#2 Posted by ferozk on September 11, 2002 8:16:23 pm
Bina
Karachi is a major Afghan city, like Quetta, and it should not come as a shock to you that Karchi had replaced Beruit long time ago as the worst crime/terror ridden city in the world.
What happened in Karachi was the harvest of the last twenty years of intolerance.
Being a Karachite, I left Karachi in 1981 for a very good reason and that reason was reinforced yesterday.
Karachi of the old is dead. The Karachi of today is dying. The new Karachi of tomorrow will be still borned!
The next battle ground in the war on terror will not be Iraq, but Pakistan and Karachi will be the front line of this new war and what happened yesterday, a few minutes from your home, was the first shots of a new battle waiting to be fought!
Ciao
Karachi is a major Afghan city, like Quetta, and it should not come as a shock to you that Karchi had replaced Beruit long time ago as the worst crime/terror ridden city in the world.
What happened in Karachi was the harvest of the last twenty years of intolerance.
Being a Karachite, I left Karachi in 1981 for a very good reason and that reason was reinforced yesterday.
Karachi of the old is dead. The Karachi of today is dying. The new Karachi of tomorrow will be still borned!
The next battle ground in the war on terror will not be Iraq, but Pakistan and Karachi will be the front line of this new war and what happened yesterday, a few minutes from your home, was the first shots of a new battle waiting to be fought!
Ciao
#1 Posted by Godot on September 11, 2002 7:47:52 pm
Excuse me, but what`s the point of this article? I can see the anger in it, but it`s rambling without any direction.
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