Bitter, Not Sweet

Shut up already!
This their party - you can come if you really want to - but don`t expect their gratitude, their affection, their anything - This is about their world, in their play, they play all the major roles, the bit actors are generally grateful for the work - so shut up, already. - Go mouth off about ``soverngty of Parliament`` or ``English democracy`` support the democractic struggle of the heroic tennant farmers taking industrila action against owners and rulers or some such lunacy, get a few lines of mention as the bit player - the review is usually not about bit players. Either way, a little gratitude from the likes of yuo will go a long way.

Romair # 13...

I dont disagree with much of your criticism on sameerJB`s post. People who feel that their articulation skills give them the right to cirticise whatever they like can only be put in the category of educated bigots. Plus it is more than valid that a person who has done something to try solve a problem has the right to be its critic. I dont believe that he or anyone of his ilk have even raised a finger to help anyone except their own ........

however, you repeatedly try to acquit the pak army from the ills inflicted on pakistan. An f-16 pilot or a soldier manning his post may not be indicted. But the policies pursued by the army brass have brought nothing but problems for Pakistan. I dont need to reiterate our army`s conduct for the past 50 years. Their crimes are very well known. They have turned pakistan from an state with an army to an army with a state... practially the definition of a banana republic. Whenever the generals have tried to take matters into their own hand, it has back fired onto them. But they never seem to quit making the same mistakes again and again. The army should stick to its job of protecting the country from any aggressor and let the politicians do their job of running the country. Its a very simple matter.

It must refrain from trying to use its military wisdom to solve a nations problem. It will never work.. never has..

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I don`t understand. What are you trying to say? A four year old child was brutally shot to death practically in front of your house and you are pointing out things about which country has suffered how much? Forget the countries. What did you as a human being do about the child? How can people recover from such shocks so quickly? The first instinct is not to attend to the burials of the innocent or leave the house and help the victims in the next building - ask if they need tea, coffee, food, blankets...but rather log on to the internet to pour forth a diatribe ... against whom? And for what purpose?

How can you see clearly who is to blame, when the tears in the eyes have not dried up yet? Or did you not cry at all?

**I`m sorry, this is brutal what I`ve written, but I mean it...Sitting so far away, I am in shock. How can u be immune?**

For Karachi:

Jo Ubur yuhaan say uthay gaa, woh saaray jahaan peh bursay gaa
Yeh sheh`r humeshaa tursaa hai, yeh sheh`r humeshaa tursay gaa

Adnan (or anyone else. . .)
Who wrote those lines you quoted in #22?

ummm... I dont remember... I`ve never been good with names... but, I think whoever wrote it died from dehydration a long time ago.

AllahDitta: Drought? What drought? The people here are obsessed with other issues. All you need is resume that states “once served in military” and tell everybody to shut up. The magic stick is risking your life by serving in the armed forces and all past, present and future sins are forgiven. No matter they fail to see sarcasm in ``who cares about Karachi`` from a Karachi-born with part of his skin buried in Karachi. No matter that they have repeatedly used abuse for elected representatives with 2/3 majority, referring to them as ``bari tind and choti tind`` but if another person uses mf, ah and bc for two real and one imaginary well-deserving generals, their patriotism, morality standards and what-not wakes up.
Who has said anything about F-16 pilots or their salaries? But the careless recycling of the same two-pages over and over ignores relevance or irrelevance. It has to be two pages, 10 paragraphs else not worth posting. Why it hurts so much to label Zia and Musharraf something that few others disagree? Is it not true that Zia got 2 squadrons and Mush is asking for 4 squadrons of F-16s? Who were/ are they accountable to, for spending?
The quagmire we are in is primarily of these peoples’ making. The 40 percent of the budget is chewed up every year and 70 percent of the debt is due to military spending and purchases of the past. Yet it is intolerable for resume-waving people to even take any criticism in least word count abbreviations. What would you call a person who takes revenge from employer for suffering humiliation for being fired? Is ah such a bad term for this individual. And what did Zia do to be respected? Serving the nation and Islam in order to make billions for him? If serving and sacrificing once is the only criteria then BB`s father has sacrificed his life - the ultimate sacrifice - and daughter of a shaheed deserves much better respect, much better than Musharraf or Zia.

Ref Analyst of All Things #13
[I have always felt that the people flying the F-16s and protecting Karachi, while risking their lives, making 1/20th the salary that you (and I) make are doing far more for Karachi than you are.]
Is this something like they were doing in the US? You have F-16s patrolling the skies over Karachi to protect against airliners flying into tall buildings?
[go stand at the border and risk your life to protect Karachi against an Indian attack.]
We don`t want Karachi. In fact, we don`t want Pakistan. The more I reflect, the more I agree with that dear boy Yasser Latif Hamdani that Jinnah was the best friend India ever had. I mean, here was a guy who understood perfectly what an Islamist thug would be like and chose to take a very large number of them out of India. How can one be not grateful for that? After seeing exactly what is happening in Pakistan, most Indians (including Advani) are saying: ``There, but for the grace of God, go I``.
[Why don`t you try to reform Islam from the inside, instead of declaring yourself a Buddhist and then hurling abuses at Islam...]
Can you say ``blasphemy``?
[I know judges and soldiers and police officers who are in situations where they can be killed in Pakistan, but that doesn`t stop them from serving their country.]
Particularly, when serving the country means handing out death sentences for blasphemy. This seems to be the current legal trend in Pakistan.

Bina,

That ordinary Pakistanis are paying for the sins of their leaders, there is no question about it. Have the current leaders learnt a lesson from the past? The answer is resounding no.

This should be a time for introspection for the Pakistani leaders and people. What brought them into this mess? There is a saying in punjabi,

`Mudai sust, gawah chust`.

While the Arab were fanning the fire of anti westernism and militant Islam, their governments, knew what side the bread was buttered and did not let their soil to be used this purpose. What did the Pakistanis do, they became, even more radical, and allowed a whole generation to go waste in their medivial mudrassas. The graduates of these madrassas left their sponsers behind and were on the fore front of this madness.

I dont understand your anger at the American for mourning their loss. What is stopping, you from going to mosque and doing the same for your dead country men and women. There were a lot of Pakistanis who died in WTC. I have not heard or seen any news item lementing the loss of those lives.

Re: LadyAna

We are not immune to it. We are just numb from it.

Ciao

in order to get respect, u have to give it....

a group of Pakistani `jehadis` were screaming ``death to Musharraf, Bush is the enemy, Islam will dominate` etc...on Madison Ave. a few weeks ago while the NYPD stood next by, quiet and calm.

i think it`s time we get our acts together and eliminate these fanatics before complaining about how the US treats us.

i know these people are a minority, but they make more noise and thus get more attention than the so-called moderates who sit and watch.

self criticism is the surest way to jumpstart individual growth, and we Pakistanis need to do that instead of complaining and basking in self pity all the time.

Bina,

the article itself was written very well.

Karakoram #9
I too meant developing countries need to learn to value their own citizens before expecting others to do so.

``US tax payer money was spent in the 1980s to create many Bin Ladens and to fund the holy war against the soviets. Everyone got the dollars then. ``

Its nice to hear someone acknowledge that Pakistan did get remunerated with dollars in the 80s. Add to that eight waivers passed by the US Congress during that period especially to protect Pakistan from sanctions for developing nuclear weapons.

Didn`t US decide to get involved in a holy war which was already started by Pakistan a few years earlier which targetted not only the government in Kabul but also the Soviets in a neighbouring Soviet republic?

Its been said that US also left it to Pakistanis to decide which mujahiddeen groups would get the $2 billion worth of funds and arms they spent on the Afghan war and Pakistan chose to fund and arm the most fundamentalist ones.

And after getting hundreds of millions of dollars of aid, arms and training from the US, enabling them to drive out the Soviets in `89?, the mujahiddeen turned coat and began killing Americans only a couple of years later, perhaps after the Gulf war. For example the first WTC bombing happened in 1993 and must have been planned earlier.

Of course how fundamentalist groups managed to find funds and arms to operate and expand operations to train so many thousands of anti-US terrorists for 13-odd more years after the US left is a question usually unasked and unanswered.

re air chief marshal romair

``...or go stand at the border and risk your life to protect Karachi against an Indian attack. ``

Sir, India is the least of Karachi`s problem. Karachi needed to be defended against an Army alright: Karachiites will tell you that it was NOT the Indian Army that sowed terror and panic in that fair city twice in the last fifteen years. Those who truly love Karachi, as I do with all my heart, know well that her bitterest enemies are not to the East but to the North. It is not India but the rest of Pakistan that has rapaciously exploited Karachi to the hilt for more than fifty years. And when Karachiites finally vioced concern at their plight, they were meted out the barbarity typical of the bravery showed in Bangladesh and Baluchistan.

Please, save those nonsensical and insincere tears about the plight of Karachi. They sound brazenly phony.

Romair,

{{go stand at the border and risk your life to protect Karachi against an Indian attack.}}

Whatever issues Sameer & you disagree upon are between the two of you....until you drag India into it.

So let me poke my nose in this & tell you that you are a bigot...you have demonstrated just as much bigotry, in the past, as you have accused Sameer of. The difference between him & you is-- he uses ``abusive`` acronyms , whereas you quote Ghalib, when you are angry. If you believe that that gives you some kind of moral superiority, or gives your biggotted beliefs greater validity, think again.

The Webster dictionary meaning of ``bigot`` is a person who holds blindly or intolerantly to a particular opinion. Yes yes, you are very tolerant. You have never been disrespectful or profane towards any religion, person or country. I cant accuse you of that. You are also open to criticism, lord knows you have a ton of critics on this site.

However, you hold certain beliefs as gospel truth ``blindly``. You argue their merit very well...& quote ``experts``, whose opinions matches yours. You also leave enough ``wriggle room`` to slip out, when you are cornered & huffily & defiantly proclaim ``where have I ever said that?!`` That makes you an extremely good debator & spin doctor.

Psychiatrists & trial lawyers sometimes needle the patient (or witness) to lose their cool to get their true feelings out. When a person gets emotionally charged, their deepest resentments (which they hold as gospel truth), come spewing out.. That famous hollywood line ``you cant handle the truth!`` is an example of what i`m trying to say. HOW a person spews out his ``truth`` is LESS important than WHAT his ``truth`` is.

Here are some of the ``truths`` I believe, you believe as dear. Not only that, I think your precious Pakistani military believes that, as well...

1)India is out to destroy Pakistan. They have never accepted Pakistan`s existence & wont rest until it is reabsorbed or made into another Afghanistan.

2)Indians are generally ``OK`` human beings...you can do ``business`` with them & watch their rotten movies...; but when it comes to Kashmir, they lose all logic & moral values & become oppressors & hegemons (even the most ``moderate`` Indian loses him/herself).

3)Its not possible to change the Indian mindset about Kashmir . The only way to make them give up their sins is to keep on provoking them. Use every means, fair & fowl, to bring them to the negotiating table. Thats why the war of a 1000 cuts is RIGHT, holy & necessary.

4)Pakistan`s stance on Kashmir is right, moral & necessary. Maybe, strategically, with 20-20 hindsight, Pakistan has made some mistakes in implementing its Kashmir policy. But that does`nt mean Pakistan should give up what she thinks is right & just & moral. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. Ulitmately, Allah is on the side of Pakistan (ergo on the side of the ``true`` Kashmiri patriots). So, sooner or later, the inevitable WILL happen: Allah`s law will prevail & the oppressors (read Indians) will be vanquished. ``Hum bhi dhekenge!``

5) There is a HUGE difference between ``terrorists`` who try to kill Mushy or destroy Pakistan`s true stance of a country that stands up to terrorism; & those who kill the Indian oppressors for their terrible terrorism in Kashmir. The former are misguided bigots, whereas the latter are ``freedom fighters``, the true soldiers of God.

I can go on & on..but I hope you get the picture...
In your defense, however, I must admit that bigotry exists ( to a larger or smaller extent) in EVERY human being. But, remember, when you point a finger at somebody, there are at least 3 fingers pointing back at you..

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