A Classical Revival?

CHowk Staff has revoked my privilige of instant posting; I am sort of pissed at that. Now I feel equal to you all-and that has made me sleepless. I was never used to travel in the third class compartment along with other commoners. There was a time when Chowk used to publish great stuff and best of that was my own posts. Now I have to wait in que like rest ughhh...... I hope now that mean witch saminashah is happy......and mubarak to chowk for their so called improved quality of debate ughhhh.....I am also thinking of taking a leave of absence and go somewhere else where there is not so much indifference and I am hated again.

rsridhar i actually agree with you about bollywood nowadays not being very indian anymore but rather a false attempt at portraying india as a part of the USA; even the songs are crap now.

Gone are the days when they actually depicted indian culture with films like pakeezah and mughal e azam and chaudvin ka chand and most of raj kapoor`s films and guru dutt`s too. and i have heard bhimsen joshi and ravi shankar [he isn`t a patch on nikhil bannerjee] etc.

But most of this north indian culture which passes off as hindustani culture nowadays is a product of the muslims of india anyway; the sitar and many raags were invented by hazrat amir khusro delhvi; Miyan Tan Sen was a convert to Islam and invented Raag Miya ka Malhaar etc. Almost all of the gharanas of classical hindustani musiqui are Muslims and as for ghazals--which go hand in hand with a lot of this culture--the poets were/are almost all Muslims. The only really great hindu ghazal poet i can think of is Firaq Gorakhpuri.

No doubt the the basis of a lot of this culture was hindu but it was islamicised by the Muslim genius and hence popularised. Even most of the great monuments of architecture which India is famous for and which drive its tourism industry are mostly (not all) built by Muslims; and the international symbol of India--The Taj Mahal- was built by a Muslim too!
Heck it might be hard for you hinoods to admit but the best thing which ever happened to India was the arrival of and rule by the Muslims.

***
As for this aping of all things western and the erosion of native languages and cultural traditions--this is happening in Pak too--and it is a shame. e.g. our generation is no longer as familiar with the great Farsi classics as our forefathers which is a pity as this is a part of our common muslim heritage; ppl nowadays don`t/can`t speak khaalis urdu; as for the decimation of punjabi literature--the less said the better! Where in world literature is their poetry as moving and spiritually intoxicating and full of Truths as that of the Punjabi Sufis: Baba Bulleh Shah, Hazrat Mian Muhammad Bakhsh, Baba Waris Shah sahib, Hazrat Sultan Bahu, Hazrat Fariduddin Ganj e Shakar, Hazrat Mihr Ali Shah etc? Yet it is being neglected! And the Farsi and Arabic and Urdu poets are too many. And of course Sindhi`s great poets too such as Shah Abdul Latif BhiTai etc.

There is nothing wrong with learning about western culture--they too have some great literature--Goethe for example--but not at the expense of forgetting our own!

**
I`d rather watch an Indian film about Mirabai and her poetic bhajans then a typical bollywood clone of the latest USA film!

**

rsridhar i actually agree with you about bollywood nowadays not being very indian anymore but rather a false attempt at portraying india as a part of the USA; even the songs are crap now.

Gone are the days when they actually depicted indian culture with films like pakeezah and mughal e azam and chaudvin ka chand and most of raj kapoor`s films and guru dutt`s too. and i have heard bhimsen joshi and ravi shankar [he isn`t a patch on nikhil bannerjee] etc.

But most of this north indian culture which passes off as hindustani culture nowadays is a product of the muslims of india anyway; the sitar and many raags were invented by hazrat amir khusro delhvi; Miyan Tan Sen was a convert to Islam and invented Raag Miya ka Malhaar etc. Almost all of the gharanas of classical hindustani musiqui are Muslims and as for ghazals--which go hand in hand with a lot of this culture--the poets were/are almost all Muslims. The only really great hindu ghazal poet i can think of is Firaq Gorakhpuri.

No doubt the the basis of a lot of this culture was hindu but it was islamicised by the Muslim genius and hence popularised. Even most of the great monuments of architecture which India is famous for and which drive its tourism industry are mostly (not all) built by Muslims; and the international symbol of India--The Taj Mahal- was built by a Muslim too!
Heck it might be hard for you hinoods to admit but the best thing which ever happened to India was the arrival of and rule by the Muslims.

***
As for this aping of all things western and the erosion of native languages and cultural traditions--this is happening in Pak too--and it is a shame. e.g. our generation is no longer as familiar with the great Farsi classics as our forefathers which is a pity as this is a part of our common muslim heritage; ppl nowadays don`t/can`t speak khaalis urdu; as for the decimation of punjabi literature--the less said the better! Where in world literature is their poetry as moving and spiritually intoxicating and full of Truths as that of the Punjabi Sufis: Baba Bulleh Shah, Hazrat Mian Muhammad Bakhsh, Baba Waris Shah sahib, Hazrat Sultan Bahu, Hazrat Fariduddin Ganj e Shakar, Hazrat Mihr Ali Shah etc? Yet it is being neglected! And the Farsi and Arabic and Urdu poets are too many. And of course Sindhi`s great poets too such as Shah Abdul Latif BhiTai etc.

There is nothing wrong with learning about western culture--they too have some great literature--Goethe for example--but not at the expense of forgetting our own!

**
I`d rather watch an Indian film about Mirabai and her poetic bhajans then a typical bollywood clone of the latest USA film!

**

re:#36 by Lajwanti on September 18, 2002
Lajwantiji,
Thanks for your advice. Ali1 is incorrigible. But he surpassed himself in his last post. How much hatred this guy has against a religion can be gauged from that post. BN, Kathak etc are mere dance forms. There is nothing religious about them though some of the themes are religious. But people like Ali1 never learn. I gave it to him what he deserved and have no regrets. Still, thanks for your kind advice.
Sridhar

urstruly # 39

[Abay aadhay hindu! what happened to your tail ``Talib``. ]

Now be gentle with our friend here. Picture him running for his life in the streets of his native Ahmedabad, with the kar sevaks with cans full of kerosene on his tail.... and him performing abhinayas, natyas and nrityas while he runs.... the Indian constitution tucked in his right and Bhagwad Geeta in his left hip pocket....

shammi # 31

``The other thing that helps India churn out artists in various fora is the freedom of expression allowed by the system.``

This entire post is nothing but condescending bull.... a Pakistani dissident living in India can exercise his freedom of expression, yeah sure. But if a MF Hussain wants to paint some nude goddesses you know which hole the freedom of expression gets shoved into.

Forget about freedom of expression you hindutva thugs, how about giving the citizens of India the freedom to eat what they want to eat... like Bhagwan forbid... beef! There are over 1000 cow slaughter roits in India every year, with one muslim on average killed in each one of those.

Kathak and bharatynatyam dancers should hold a half peeled banana in there hands while performing and doing the intricate abhinayas, natyas and nrityas. That will make the monkey dance look more authentic.

rsridhar # 33

Why so angry my friend? I have nothing but regards for you and your monkey bhagwan. May he squirt his blessings on your face soon.... though you have enough foam coming out of your mouth already. ;-)

rsridhar # 33

Why so angry my friend? I have nothing but regards for you and your monkey bhagwan. May he squirt his blessings on your face soon.... though you have enough foam coming out of your mouth already. ;-)

The thing that I hate about Kathak and all other natya crap is that the dancers make this gesture with their legs:

_< >_

god this is ugly, why you do that. That is one of the reasons I hate this pleeed dance.

re: Ali1
``...There are over 1000 cow slaughter roits (sic) in India every year...``
Really? Prove it. MF Hussain is still able to do whatever he wants, and paint at will. That is the ultimate measure of how much the system tolerates art. Was I condescending? Absolutely so. You deserve nothing less.
Re: Naqshbandi
I think that Pakeezah is a great movie. I recently saw it again. What do you think of Raj Kumar`s rebellion against the family patriarch when he refuses to admit as as a daughter-in-law a girl who was born out of wedlock? I think that you are a fairly conservative person. How come then that you appreciated the movie despite this obvious affront to conservatives?

Hi Urstruly..

Question for you. Why do you insist on calling Zafar aadha-hindu?

Thanks.

Shammi

These are the statistics of Anti-Muslim riots and number of Muslims murdered since 1954. The figures have been taken from Home Ministry of India. Ali`s estimate is just about right. Please also keep in mind that the governments in our countries always quote fewer number of casualties in such incidences.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Communalism/muslims_stat.htm

I think people like Ali1 and others have genuine grievances with Hindus which must be addressed with compassion and love - and not with the Kathak naach of obfuscation.

Reply Urstruly

“But before I leave I want to ask this character: Abay aadhay hindu! what happened to your tail ``Talib``. Did Chowk Staff chopped that off?”

Abbe aadha suwar, mera tail bhool ja – yeh there liye nahin hai. Go try it on in Peshawar.

Dance is finally a set of stylized idioms. That many styles of Indian classical dance used their repertoire of idioms to convey themes from Hindu religion and mythology doesnot mean that other themes cannot be conveyed, or that new dance idioms cannot be created. If dance is allowed to survive in Pakistan, the hatred of everything Hindu can lead to new styles.

rsridhar
My theory has been that if these people didnot have hindus to hate, they would turn on their women. Classical dance is a potent combination of some hindu stuff + woman, so such a violent abusive reaction is only natural.


Re Kathakali, apart from hearing of the revival of old compositions, I have even read of a Kathakali performance of King Lear from Shakespeare :).

Naqshbandi

How do you explain more poverty in the Northern part sof India, more women are killed for dowry there .

Generally communal riots happen in these parts.

Generally southern parts are peaceable , and more organised compared to the North.

Now would all this have something to do with the arrival of Muslims?