Truth Hurts

How`s this for Desi-Western integration:

``Udan Kabootar Pigeon Fly

Look Dekho Asman Sky``

and ``Take na hai to Take, nahi tey aglee dukan vekh``

Guys - Hindustani Classical Music is fusion too ... so are violin recitals in Carnatic Classical Music and Indian Film music has been ripping off western tunes (and story lines) for ever so why get worked up if the pendulum is swinging the other way now ? BTW to the ``aaja nach lay`` = east punjab music/culture ... hello ? .... ever heard of Gurbani ?

Zafar;

hehehe!! Loads of people thought that Ali G was a Pakistani when he first came out, they said he was a Pakistani taking the mickey out of wannabe gangsters and it turns out he`s a dark skinned Jew from Hampstead!!

nooralain;

Hello baby how are you?? I like your new name.

DRUMZ;

You crack me up man. Did you ever hear of this New York punk band the called the MC5?? The name of their album reminds me of you: ``Kick out the Pricks, Motherf*****s!!``

Yeah and you are right ADF are a phat band

(But Nashqbandi wont like them because they are all Hindus...)

Nashqbandi;

I totally agree with you. Pakistanis in England should be very weary of associating themselves with non Muslim Punjabis...we are like the pied piper of hamellin who with our boliyaan and dhols and bhangras will turn Pakistani boys and girls into whisky~drinking, sex~crazed bacon~eating maniacs!! Our plans have been foiled.

(From now onwards I appoint DRUMZ to answer every point you raise on my behalf, because he is the man...)

take care

-h-

Lets not ignore that a lot of this East/West fusion (who gives a fukk about Kipling`s foolish azz) has taken place for hundreds of years in he Caribbean. Reggae (RAGA) and Soca have subtle NDN themes. CHUTNEY Music is mainly West Indian and uses NDN beats/instruments (see this at any W. indian club).

Asif: If i recall correctly, Asian Dub Foundation did a song WITH Nusrat so i dont know what the hell ur talking about.

``Why on Earth Pakistanis and Indians in the UK want to dress like and behave like NY gangters is something which completely puzzles me!``

People generally live by the culture which is prevelent in their day/place. Of course western desi`s would dress western (WHY are we discussing this)???

PS: Does Sufism tell u to speak on things u ADMITTEDELY know NOTHING about (she sang neither rap nor reggae). Please check urself before acting all holy on a computer. And isnt Music HARAM?

Reply Harpreet #8

…when I was growing up in Birmingham half my school were goray and kale and lots of them could speak Punjabi because we would teach them the swearwords…”

If it`s not too much of an inconvenience, would you be so kind as to provide Punjabi dialogue for Ali G interviewing Cherie Blair/Margaret Thatcher?

Reply Prem #13

[``Truth`s lyrics offend Hindu culture (what the fukk does that mean?)``
“Can`t stop laughing......DRUMZ`s inimitable, unerring words”]

Mashallah. What more can one say?

Nooralain

“I love Rai music...especially Khaled, Mami and Fadela!”

Fadela’s voice rules…sadly I like her earlier stuff better (N’Sel Fik, Hana Hana)…later stuff is too smooth and…a bit vapid…

Dost-Mittarji – First Ali_1 calls you poisonous, then Mr Nasbandi accuses you of carnality (taubah!) – what have you done to offend these people?!!

Mami is Israeli!!! Ohmigoodness, this is news to me. Mami is Algerian. He sings of his `bledi` Al-jazay`r. from whence came this information that he is Israeli??? With his gorgeous voice, it wouldn`t matter if he was from Antarctica...but someone should get their facts straight. Mami was born and raised in Algeria :). I love Rai music...especially Khaled, Mami and Fadela!

asif Naqshbadi: It is impossible to have definite barriers to cultural overlap, partcularly for youngsters frowing up in diaspora. More important thing is that if it coming at the expense of pure Punjabi or pure western music. The fact is that it is not. The traditional Punjabi music as you pointed out is alive and well and actually progressing. However, in our traditions, music was never focussed on unrbanite youngsters. Both Sufi and folk music is more for adults to enjoy. For each Jazzy-B there are many traditional popular singers even from diaspora. Malkit Singh lives in UK, Manmohan Waris and Harbhajan Mann are Canadians. Possibly Harbhajan Talwar is also from UK. Similarly Sufi music is also alive and well in Indian Punjab, if you follow the best of Punjabi artists such as Hans Raj Hans, Gurdas Mann and Manpreet Akhtar; others are more into folk music. Actually folk music is in bad shape in Pakistani Punjab with everybody targeting the yurban oungster market.
Just listen to Kuldip Manak`s koka and you will forget about Jazzy-B. Even 100 Jazzy-Bs can not be compared with this song. Basically it is a mater of choice and fortunately plenty of choice is available right now in Punjabi music.

harpreet...:)

Personally I think it sucks! (I`m not talking about this particular song--I rarely, if ever, listen to western music by which i mean music from the Graeco-Roman/Judaeo-Christian culture). How annoying is it to begin listening to a Punjabi (or even Urdu!) song and suddenly you have some twat start rapping or doing reggae in the middle of it! It is a case of neither here nor there! Na idhar kay rehe hum na udhar kay! I don`t think it is inherently bad in itself--but what is bad is when this is then supposed to represent this mythical thing called `desi` culture in England.
The only thing desi about much of this `desi` (`British-Asian`) culture is the colour of the performers` skin: it is nothing but Western culture which has been adopted wholesale but with an Indian skin on top to try to pass off as `desi`.

Wasn`t it Kipling who said, East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet? I think he had a point when it comes to musical mixing and to an extent cultural too!

What is most annoying is how it takes perfectly good Indo-Pakistani music and then ruins it by re-mixing it! For example the late great NFAK
was a qawwal and his music and lyrics are all about spirituality and love of Allah--then you get some idiots who decide to remix it and add some reggae/r n b/ gangsta rap in the middle of it to produce a hybrid which is criminal! Yet this is supposed to be desi and `cool`! Ask the vast majority of those who listen to this crap and they wont even be able to understand half of the lyrics of NFAK or their meaning!!

Call me a purist but I think that Muslims in general and Pakistanis in particular should be wary of this so called British Asian culture!

I do agree with harpreet (?) that to lump together everything as `eastern` is wrong.By the same yardstick I also think that using the word `desi` --as if India and Pakistan had one identical culture!--is also wrong. Most Pakistanis are Muslims--our identity comes from Islam first and then indeed there are cultural aspects but it is a fact that Islam modifies each culture it comes into contact with-retaining the pure and getting rid of that which is against its basic premises. Thus compare poetry and music from the Punjab: though both Punjabi the music and poetry of Muslim Punjab `West Punjab` is of a spiritual nature whereas that of the non-Muslim punjab is mostly of a carnal and sensual nature. I don`t know about Indian Punjab but I don`t think men and women dancing together in a nightclub on the dancefloor to the tunes of `aaja nach lay` (or whatever) is Punjabi culture in Pakistani Punjab? Is it?!

The songs at the MayooN and Mehndi rasams on the other hand is Punjabi culture....

The converse is true for Pakistani rock bands like Junoon--why have they ruined some wonderful lyrics of Baba Bulleh Shah by putting them to a rock tune?! Then this suddenly becomes `Sufi rock` music! Please! Baba Bulleh Shah must be turning in his grave!

...and look how `original` these so called representatives of `desi` culture in the UK are:

LL Cool SINGH!
Jazzy B (I think he`s Canadian right?)
Punjabi MC?!!
(there`s even a LL Cool Khan now!)

And even the way they dress shows they are just cheap clones of American gangster rappers. Why on Earth Pakistanis and Indians in the UK want to dress like and behave like NY gangters is something which completely puzzles me!

re: DRUMZ #11

``Truth`s lyrics offend Hindu culture (what the fukk does that mean?)``

Can`t stop laughing......DRUMZ`s inimitable, unerring words :)

...chill out...Addicitive is just entertainment...stop taking everything so damn seriously...if you don`t like it, don`t listen to it...if some goras and kalas enjoy indian beats, let them...bollywood has been stealing from hollywood (rather poorly i might add) for ages...no one complains about that...how is this any different...

No one has mentioned that the morality police (some NDN company) is suing DRe for taking the Lata Mangeshgar`s sample and using it on his Label (the song was produced by DJ Quick). The 500 million dollar suit states that Truth`s lyrics offend Hindu culture (what the fukk does that mean?).

Personally, Im not feeling this trend. I respect those that started it (missy/cube/jay-z-Big Pimpin) but now theres just a bunch of fools jumpin on the bandwagon. The dumbest rapper ever (Nore) crucified his beat, and Redman/Erick Sermons chorus is ``Whatever she say`s then im that`` over an Indian woman singin about suicide.

I do like people going back to simple beats like flutes (Ashanti) drums etc cuz I HATE these overly produced synthetic tracks they have these days.

Theres still a LOT of good untapped raga material out there. Certain flute tunes could murder a track.

PS: The Canadian rock band ``The Tea Party`` have been using sittars and NDN music for decades, long before this hip hop trend.