Looking For Life on Other Worlds

SameerJB #48 Glad to see your post that does justice to the article which deals with an aspect that represents humanity at its best - i.e. in the persuit of science, with open minds and stout hearts. (I refer to stout hearts, given the timid manner in which most of us - particularly among us muslims as we pass through our days of degeneration and decay nowadays - cling to preconceived notions on the one hand, and lash out on the other hand at the West for daring to use their God-given minds and eyes).
Coming to the subject...
I find it fascinating that carbon-based life on earth - including us humans - is made up of atoms that were (as someone once put it) ``forged in the couldron of some long-dead stars``. And we know that such atoms have been continuously forged ever since for perhaps the past 16 billion years. And we also know that these atoms can then assembled into molecules, and ``confederations`` of molecules (aka living cells) in conditions that are not particularly extreme (relative to the extremes of pressures and heat and radiation and so forth that can be found in the universe). So, by all indications, the question seems not ``whether there is life outside planet earth``, but: ``when will we discover it``, or ``when will it discover us``, or ``have we already been discovered, and are being observed unbeknownst to us?``.
While we seem to be at a dead-end for now in the search for ET life, we are on a superhighway nowadays (thanks to genetic research) wrt to life on earth. We are discovering (as per a recent book by Pinker on the subject) that there are indeed genetic differences between humans. That we are different from animals only in quantitative terms, not qualitative. That things like immortality are not beyond our reach, given reasonalbe time and scientific effort. I have no doubt that this search of understanding life on earth (as opposed to ET life) will in a few decades from now totally change our notions of the past few thousand years on what it means to be human.

Hameed # 28

What I meant was that at philosophical level, at least, at this stage we must broaden our definition of ``life``. Currently, our computer generated virtual characters are perfectly capable of exhibiting the chracteristics defined by calssical definitions, in virtual reality. A man-machine-man interface is also possible through robots- this is a step further from virtual reality. Intelligent prosthetics are capable of interfacing with organic cells.

Best thing about research is not just dedication but obsession to probing. The desire of human mind to be curious leading to probing has created and destroyed many myths and theories. The life in any form elsewhere is one of the most fascination area after classifying all life forms on earth. Beyond fascination, finding life in any form anywhere else will be a major breakthrough in understanding the evolution of life on earth also.
Salman has laid out the case for carbon based life nicely based on the distinct propoerty of carbon to make extensive length of bonding with other carbon atoms, not only leading to the complexity and diversity of chemistry, life and functioning of life, also to sustaining of life by utilizing the stored energy in C-C bonds and (sadly) the destruction of life through oxidation.
For carbon based life to sustain, beside liquid environment, the rate of reproducing or making copies from simple molecular forms to complex life must be comparable to than of oxidation. The conditions on earth are possible, without any doubt, at many other plabets and moons, depending on the distance from the heating source - sun/ star and the gravity to keep an atmosphere. The possiblity of producing basic organic chemicals is also beyond doubt. It is the presence of certain ctatalyst to start giving a certain set of chemical edge over others, followed by a synergy or federation of a group of molecules to look after each other`s interests.
That is where not just the structure but also stereochemistry (shape and orientation of molecule in space) starts playing significant role. Basically a particular shape has to to have a slight edge over its rivals in cooperation from others molecules of the federation who are better defended living in walled cities or creating cell-walls. Given the billion of years, favorable conditions and availabilty of basic ingredients, the chance of selfishness among an exclusive group of molecules to behave for a common goal of protecting their federation at all cost is very probable. Similarly having many kind of life forms in competition with each other and developing a food chain is also natural outcome of limited lifetime of carbon based life in the presence of worst poison, oxygen - can`t live without suicidal dependence on oxygen, thanks to triplet biradical nature of oxygen.
Within carbon based life, the possibility of having life forms similar to the ones on earth would be a rare possibility. given so many things in the gistory of evolution to follow exactly same path as on earth, down to extinction of dianosaurs. This is very unlikely even if planets with similar to earth atmosphere exist.

Salman, Welcome back to CHOWK!

A big change from our usual lineup here.

Ras Siddiqui

tahmed: LOL, im not even gonna lie.

American: But i accept what my ancestors believe. I have a picture of muhammed`s flying horse in my room; its next to my painting of the ant who spoke to soloman...

Drumz #36 I am delighted to see you feel so strongly about flying saucers. My mission to chowk is now accomplished! Since you are clearly a devout believer, I can now speak freely to you:
You see, I come from the planet Zorga (beep) From a galaxy far...far...away. My mission is to find strong believers in flying saucers...believers like you. You are chosen to help us green-skinned aliens rule earth (beep! beep!) As a first step towards your future glory...you are to pack one bag (no more, sorry), and go stand in the middle of your backyard on one leg, arms outstretched and with your eyes closed (never mind the neigbors). A flying saucer will hover over you, and beam you up...(beep)...You will then be appointed ``Local Police Chief on Planet Earth`` by the Grand Marshall of the Imperial Zorgan Starfleet himself (beep! beep!), in an impressive ceremony on board the flying saucer. So, get moving, soldier! You flying saucer awaits you!!

Finding life on other planets is not such a big deal. Now if we find intelligence, intelligent life that`ll be something. Take for example Pakistan, a lot of life, population growing like crazy, but very little intelligent life to speak of.

Salman Hameed has my vote for PM... (that is Post-Master, an infinitely more useful job)

The very fact that someone has broken away from the usual moronic BULL5HIT (be it Pak-Bharat dushmani, or good vs bad Religion, or that awful mindless waste-of-time version of gulli-danda called Crook-it) and started another discussion is a highly commendable undertaking. I wish there were more of you on Chowk than is presently the case.

Now, turning to SETI, it is such a tragedy that the war mongering nit-wits in the US Congress have yet again refused to provide any funding for it. Thanks to funds from Paul Allen and some other private groups the few dedicated exobiologists are holding the fortress. But then I sometimes think that maybe these people should first go S (search) for TI before they can worry about ETI...

(Kirk said into his communicator, ``Beem me up, Scotty``? sigh, sigh, rolling eyeballs, ``There is no intelligent life form on this planet``. I wonder if he meant Earth??)

Lady: Since we`re talking about `science,` well some of us are... and other types of life, why not look rite here. There is nuthin in science which disproves the existence of other dimensions. Last I heard, they believe there may be at least 12 dimensions...

Extra terrestrial life may just be at a quicker vibrating dimension (one which we can`t see). Thats how Hazred and the jinn tie in.

it made a wonderful read.
thank u.
``Life on other worlds, most likely, will not be driven by DNA, but perhaps by some other molecule with similar properties. What an astonishing discovery would that be to find such a molecule! ``

O cool.. now I read everyone`s comments, I know what y`all r talking about. Shaikh naksahbandijamaatiofbarevliibnhisabbi is talking about some sufi fellow that he believes in, and drumzy is talking about a hazard dude who wrote about UFOs and jinns he`d interviewed. Cool. :)

But I thought the topic was finding DNA on other planets, hmmm???
What happened to that?

btw... why do we assume that we need to find DNA on other planets? Maybe it could be something else - something more basic or maybe more advanced. Why only DNA?

#32 drumz - it`s arrite. :).

#29 Amex - Well. 1st of, not everyone knows what a necronomicon is (I didn`t). So I just put that in for readers to understand what y`all were jabbering about so much. necronomicon necromonicon necroconinon necroposidon etc etc etc... It IS related to the discussions. :p

Tahmed: PSEUDO-SCIENCE?????? Whom is the bullsh1t supposed to fool? 500 years ago, the western scientific revolution began because intelligent people got tired of believing things without evidence. Thus the scientific method was formed to discern truth from fiction.

Fast forward to today when we have people like you and the writer of this piece who under the name of science DISMISS things they havent analyzed and know NOTHING about. Nothing logical or analytical going on here, just the opinion of you all who are too lazy to do any research.

You and the writer IGNORANTLY group all UFO reports together and then diminish them by linking them to ``half-brained idiots who dread being kidnapped by space aliens.`` Where do u get the audacity to speak on science?

Im about looking at a case with an open mind, collecting and analyzing the evidence and making synthesized conclusions. I never said `the majority of ufo reports are true` or anything to that effect. I said there are some strong claims (of course u know nuthing about the subject so whats the point)?

I know 17 year olds who can debate the bullsh1t outta 98% of the people on this joke of a site.

If there is anyplace where pseudo-science is confused with real science, it is in this field of ETs. In the US, there are people who are convinced that a flying saucer crash-landed at Roswell, NM in 1947, and the bodies of a couple of space aliens were secretly recovered and sent to a government lab. Rumors have lingered on, and Roswell remains today, I understand, a tourist attraction complete with museum and so forth. The US airforce a couple of years ago had to issue a formal report denying that it ever got hold of dead space aliens. Then we have all sorts of theories of the Egyptian pyramids being some kind of space ports for aliens who visited earth long ago. And of course there was the famous radio show of the 1930`s about an attack from invaders from mars that was so realistic a number of listeners committed suicide rather than submit to a life of servitude to martians.
Science, which I think is far more interesting even if it has yet to report its first finding a extra-terrestrial life, seems too profound for these half-brained idiots who dread being kidnapped by space aliens to understand. Now, Drumz is of course too smart to ever worry about being abducted by space aliens, but just to be sure I understand he keeps his cell phone handy...

Asif: Your wimpy azz couldnt make `biting comments` with a gun.

``drumz: you dismiss the spiritual visions of Ibn Arabi...as a ``mad Arab`` and his...Futuhat e Makkiyyah Sharif ...as his `necromonicon.``

Here u stated that i called Ibn Arabi a ``mad arab.`` When did i mention Ibn Arabi? I said ``The ``mad arab`` who wrote the mystical ``necronomicon`` described alien looking beings.`` U assumed ``mad arab`` reffered to Arabi when i was talking about Al Hazred (I even named his book). Theres a reason ``read`` was the first revealed word.