Myopic, Malevolent, Megalomaniac

karakoram

NO! I am not a closet-Wahabi. In fact i dislike them a lot for aspects of their aqeedah! I am a Sunni (Barelvi) and also affiliated to a Sufi tariqah.
But the MMA is NOT all just pro-Taliban parties. It is not such a black and white issue of pro and anti Taliban. The main reason I am happy that the MMA won so mnay seats is that Mawlana Ahmad Shah Noorani--a great Sunni alim of the ``Barelvi`` school is also a part of the MMA-indeed their President and not him alone but the majority of Barelvi ulama in Pakistan too who form the JUP. After all, although we have some doctrinal differences with the Deobandis and the JI we also have a lot in common AND **politically** the goals of ALL the Islamic groups are the same whether Wahabi, Deobandi or Barelvi: the implementation of Shariah in toto in Pakistan and the Nizam e Mustafa (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam).

Naqshbandi and hamidm: I agree that the next elections will be won by MMA, if USA goes in Iraq without any green light from United Nations.
But more like due to smart military strategists devising plans to win election by setting up not one but four groups - PML (Q), NA, SDA and Crescent Group. I guess they need to learn some basic maths like dividing 100 supporting votes to 4 pro-government candidates decreases the winning probability compared to 100 votes going to just one candidate. But I guess confusing public into mistakenly casting vote for pro-government vote won over winning probability.
But, Naqshbani Saheb, I assure you if there is remote chance of MMA sweeping the next electtion, USA will make sure to bring BB, NS and Altaf Bhai back, may be their planes escorted by squadrons of US and Pakistani fighter jets, military welcoming them with guard of honor and 21 1/2 guns salute at Karachi and Lahore.
Zakkk: I am also very surprised at the defeat of Mir Afzal Khan`s nephew, Abbas Sarfraz from Mardan at least. He was as sure to win as Makhdoom Amin Fahim from Hala. Nothing but supporting Musharraf caused his defeat. But don`t worry, he has great potential and good future ahead as a member of next generation of politicians which includes many well educated and talented individuals. In addition to Abbas Sarfraz, two very talented future leaders on PML (N) ticket, Khurram Dastgir Khan and Ahsan Iqbal Chaudhry also lost. You might have read articles by these two individuals in Nation, Dawn and News dailies. Abbas Sarfraz, Ahsan Iqbal, Khurran Dastgir Khan and late Omar Asghar Khan were my favorite politicians in addition to Aehtzaz Ahsan of PPP, much more than Imran Khan and Zubaida jalal. Actually at the time of Musharraf`s overthrow a whole group of potential good leaders were in the process of making but the process was derailed. Does anybody remember Inayatullah Niazi and the skills he applied to corner Manzoor Wattoo in Punjab Assembly? Actually, except for supporting military government, Pervez Elahi is not a bad candidate for Punjab chief minister given his experience and determination. He might turn out to be as good as Shahbaz Sharif.
Bina: Did any member of your family or close relative win elections?

Hmm there are several discrepancies in this election. While OMair will be happy to note that from my guess PTI has increased the number of votes it polled from the last election. On the other hand using NWFP as a test case, on certain seats like Karak, Swat-1 and Peshawar-2
The MMA`s win was very odd, outlying stations who normally should not have polled many votes (and when they are polled the votes are usually rejected), suddenly received a wave of pro MMA votes. While the MMA was popular in those areas, it wasn`t THAT popular...in fact some candidates didn`t even know who their MMA opponents were because they were nobodies at a political levell. Mind you I do accept the fact that a combined vote bank of the JUI-JI-TJP and tactical voting, as well as the support of the PML(N) and SHerpao group in certain areas gave the MMA a huge advantage..but in places like Mardan against Abbas Sarfaraz huge amounts of resources were at his disposal.

naqshbandi

.......... i tend to agree with your prediction:``in the next general elections the MMA will sweep the board throughout the country and win by a large majority. This current election is just a taster of what is to come``

.......... unfortunately that will be the last election in pakistan because, as you well know, the khulafa-i-rashedden were not elected......... fortunately, they also taught us how to get rid of unelected leaders............

..........hopefully it won`t come to that and musharrraf, with help from amreeka and ganesh, will kill the devil`s serpent in allah`s egg ..........


sameerjb

......... i hope musharraf realizes his mistake and allows ns, bb and altaf bhai to return ........i never thought i would call him altaf bahi, but at this point he is beginning to look like jesus the saviour............if not, the religious scum will fill the vacum and we might be in for a lot of trouble like algeria and egypt ..........

......ganesh willing, we will be just fine and once these guys get their land cruisers and nadas they will settle down ..... maybe we are worried for nothing ......... maybe these guys are like those happy malangs at bari imam who spend their day drinking bhang and chanting ``allah hu`` .........

Naqshbandi:
I thought u was a sufi i.e. not agreeing with the wahabi/taliban interpretation of Islam. Since the MMA is pro-Taliban why are you so happy about them winning ?

are you a closet wahabi masquerading as a tolerant peace loving sufi ?

nyt on pak elites and anti-americanism


October 13, 2002
Pakistan`s Elite Show Anti-Americanism in Elections
By DAVID ROHDE


SLAMABAD, Pakistan, Oct. 12 — Seated on the front lawn of his father`s palatial house in a leafy enclave here, Ehsan Ijaz, a 20-year-old junior at Georgia Tech, explained this afternoon why other members of the Pakistani elite have turned against the United States.

While anti-Americanism has long had deep roots here, Western diplomats and Pakistani analysts all insisted that there was no great cause for concern because Pakistan`s wealthy elite and urban middle class would never support the country`s Islamic religious parties.

That changed on Thursday, when residents of Islamabad, with the richest and most well-educated population in Pakistan, backed the local candidate of a coalition of religious parties bent on expelling American forces from Pakistan, ending corruption and imposing Taliban-style Islamic law.

Mr. Ijaz, an affable computer science major who was dressed in flip-flops, shorts and a Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets T-shirt, said he was not surprised, because in Islamabad, the image of the United States is ``terrible.``

Mr. Ijaz himself felt some sympathy for the religious parties. He cited popular frustration with the corruption of the country`s two main parties, and the hope the religious parties would reform the derelict education system and curb poverty.

But mainly he finds himself defending the United States these days, in increasingly heated conversations with other members of the country`s elite.

The talk of an American attack on Iraq has caused many here to declare the American campaign against terrorism a war against Islam. That follows anger over the United States military campaign in Afghanistan, a perception of one-sided American support for Israel and resentment that while President Bush speaks of democratic values, he backs the military dictatorship of Gen. Pervez Musharraf in Pakistan. Much of the anti-Americanism is also based on notions about the attack on the World Trade Center that Americans would consider ludicrous.

The hardening of attitudes is playing out in politics. On Thursday, the local religious party candidate, Mian Aslam, received 40,000 votes in the Islamabad area, twice the number of his nearest rival, the candidate of one of the country`s two mainstream political parties. Mr. Aslam, a wealthy businessman, said, ``The people of Pakistan want an Islamic system.``

The religious parties did well not only in the religiously conservative provinces bordering Afghanistan. They also beat leading mainstream candidates in the country`s cities for the first time, picking up one seat here in the capital, two in Lahore and two in Karachi.

Based on the final returns today, the religious parties will control two of the country`s four provincial governments and will be the third-largest party in the National Assembly, holding a record 45 seats. Their best previous showing was 9 seats in 1993. That will give the party considerable standing in the assembly, where the party backed by General Musharraf won 77 seats and that of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto won 62. (A fourth group, the party of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, took 15 seats.)

Mr. Ijaz has personally been caught in the tensions between the Muslim world and the United States, because he is missing classes waiting for his visa to be renewed. He criticizes the new security checks for Muslim males from 20 countries that have prevented him getting a visa to continue his studies.

But he fights with his growing number of Pakistani friends who deride America as a bullying, arrogant, anti-Islamic country. Mr. Ijaz has been told by people here that the jets that struck the World Trade Center were flown by remote control or were part of an American or Israeli conspiracy to defame Islam. It is commonly believed here that thousands of civilians died in indiscriminate American bombing in Afghanistan. Estimates by journalists put the figure at 400 to 1,500.

``People here don`t understand why they attacked Afghanistan,`` Mr. Ijaz said, referring to the United States. ``They fear that if they attack Afghanistan today they can attack Pakistan tomorrow.``

Conversations with Pakistanis over the last two months matched Mr. Ijaz`s description. In Karachi, a wealthy young businessman who had studied in Britain asked why the Western news media had failed to report that the United States dropped nuclear weapons in Afghanistan.

A young Pakistani man who had lived in New Jersey for several years announced at a party given by American marines that he admired the strength of the Jewish conspiracy that controls the Western news media, the United States Congress and the world economy.

In an interview before the elections, Rasul Bakhsh Rais, director of an American studies center at Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, said anti-Americanism was simmering among the urban middle class and elite. But at the time, he said the sentiment would not produce increased support for the religious parties.

``I`m surprised,`` he said in an interview a day after the election. ``I did not expect this.``

Anti-Americanism was not the only factor for the support for the religious candidate here, both he and Mr. Ijaz said. Mr. Asam said today that his campaign focused on reducing poverty and lawlessness in Islamabad. A perception that the government fixed the race prompted a low mainstream turnout that also aided the religious parties.

Zarin Qureshi, a retired air force colonel who voted for the religious party candidate in Islamabad, said today that the victory was a message to the United States to halt its ``anti-Islamic`` policies on Chechnya, Israel and Iraq.

Western diplomats said the widespread belief in conspiracy theories here stemmed from an education system that teaches rote learning, not critical thinking.

The Pakistani news organizations also fuel suspicions. In the last two months, English-language Pakistani newspapers have reported that the Federal Bureau of Investigation wanted to open 200 offices in Pakistan and that dozens of American soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan, and highlighted accounts of discrimination against Muslims in the United States.

The tone of anti-Americanism in the English-language press has become increasingly acerbic, Professor Rais said. President Bush is strongly criticized in opinion pieces, and recent editorial cartoons have festooned his name and image with swastikas and stars of David.

Pakistani political analysts said anti-Americanism would die down here if Afghanistan is fully rebuilt, the dispute with Iraq is resolved through United Nations inspections and a Palestinian state is created. Until then, Mr. Ijaz said, he expected his friends to continue hating the superpower they read about.

He recently sent two letters to a local newspaper. One complained about the United States` discrimination in granting visas. The other defended the United States response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

``Whenever I say that I am not getting a visa and Americans are cruel, they publish it,`` he said. ``But when I say something positive about America, they never publish it.``

Urstruly:
that hurt :(

HamidM:
Just saw the news about the french oil tanker blasts. The Yemenese now agree that it was a terrorist attack and have rounded up 20 suspects.
You can add this to your list for the week.

bina ji--not that it is relevant to this issue whether i come back to pakistan or not, but to answer your question the answer is that i was planning on returning to pakistan anyway within the next 4 years insha Allah and the performance of the MMA has only strengthened my resolve to return. I am going to pak this december and then plan to go every year now until my kids (insha Allah!) are about 4 after which i will pack up shop and return to settle in Pakistan. That is the plan insha Allah.
So yes. I want my future kids insha Allah to grow up in an Islamic country and Pakistan is ideal for me as i am a pakistani and love it from the heart. I also feel with my doctorate in bioengineering finished by then i can also help pakistan...

***
Sameerj--i would love it if Maulana Noorani sahib of the Ahle Sunnat was the PM!
Prediction: in the next general elections the MMA will sweep the board throughout the country and win by a large majority. This current election is just a taster of what is to come.

**
:)

Option I: Best option for USA right now is to force Musharraf to allow BB, NS and Altaf Hussain back to Pakistani politics to counter the rising influence of religious fundamentalists.
Option II: Musharraf would like USA to consider him even more indispensable and backing him to have permanent constitutional role for military in politics (Turkey model) keeping him at the top of the helm, short of resorting to Algerian example.
Option III: Another less likely option is to dismiss the election results through Supreme Court on the request of some losing candidates or party in the election.
Right now BB, NS and Altaf Hussain must be lobbying hard in USA for option I while Musharraf would naturally be trying to convince USA of option II. The Iraq offensive around the corner, option I is much more appropriate for US interests in Pakistan than relying on one man, Musharraf, but with Bush in the White House both option are equally probable. Let us see what and how the second most important player in Pakistani affairs after USA, the Saudis, would use their influence in current situation.

# 62 No such Islamic law exist in Paksitan (yet). I think only one insecure here is you.

marshall romair,

............stop putting a fauji spin on everything ............... it is silly to compare what happens in pakistan, bali, yemen an bangladesh to what is happening in france and germany ....... the fact of the matter is that resurgent islam is philosophically at odds with the rest of the civilized world, whereas the germans and the french disgree with the americans on matters of foreign policy and haute cuisine ............ five billion of the six billion folks on earth generally agree on the standards of a modern civilized society - the one billion muslims are the exception .......... rock stars and capri pants are in, from shanghai to mumbai to pago-apgo ....... only in the islmic world are they seen as symbols of a hedonistic life style that must be destroyed ................

.............. so don`t confuse the two issues - the people who voted for MMA voted for allah as much as they voted against bush .............. and therein lies the rub ................ unfortunately ``philtanthrapists`` zubaida whatshername and nawabzada imran will not be able to fight the tide - sooner or later they will join forces with the jihadic forces to destroy the infidels led by brittney spears and keith richards............ but he is indestructible - on the day of judgement only He and the cockroaches will still be standing (or crawiling) .................

It is interesting to see how the US foreign policy is having effects on areas outside the US.

In Pakistan, a coalition of religious parties, which had only 2 seats in the last elections, now controls two of the country`s four provinces. Considering the fact that the maulvi brigade could only win a few seats even after Zia, and during the time the PPP was putting up the Taliban in Afghanistan, would be a good indication that Pakistanis do not naturally vote for maulvis. Obviously, Pakistan has not become a maulvi state, just within the past three years - specially since Musharraf`s govt. has actually been going in the opposite direction of where the maulvis wanted to go. It is correct that internally Pakistanis wanted a change from the status-quo parties, but why go towards the maulvi parties for change? There were other non-maulvi non-status quo alternatives, as well. It would be correct to assume some external event has caused the success of the maulvis.

That external event is the foreign policy of the Americans, and the huge wave of anti-Americanism that is now sweeping everyone again.

But this anti-Americanism is not limited to the Islamic maulvi brigade. In Germany, Schroeder was recently able to come from behind and win the elections, after he stated that under no circumstance would he ever support a US attack on Iraq, even if the UN approved it.

In Britain and other European countries, some of the biggest peace rallies in European history have taken place against US adventurism.

Arundhati Roy, the Indian human rights activist, is flying around all over the world, pointing these things out. Interestingly, her stance on this issue is nearly identical to the stance of the maulvis in Pakistan. Even L.K. Advani of India is not openly supporting this action. Mandela has now started calling it racism against a black UN Secretary General.

If US action can put people as far apart as Arundhati Roy, l.K. Advani, Mandela, Qazi Hussein and Schroeder on the same platform, then maybe the US should realize that its foreign policy is leading to events in other countries, which will only be a long term negative for America.

Unfortunately, the one area where the US has the least qualified professionals is in its State Dept. Some of the brightest American students I have ever met in my whole life used to ask me the stupidest questions while I was studying here in the US: do you have tomatoes in Pakistan? Does every Ayyraab have four wives? You guys have oil and are Arabs, correct? Do Indians ride elephants? etc. etc.

If this is what the best and brightest in the US know, in their early and mid twenties, about the areas with which the US keeps going to war, then all I can say is they will remain bumbling idiots in the foreign policy arena, even when they are in international decision making positions in their forties and fifties.

People correctly fear the maulvi brigade, all over the world. Power in the hand of ignorant, narrow-minded people, who can see nothing but their own interests, can be very dangerous and can lead to fundamentalism. I equally fear the US foreign policy makers, for exactly the same reasons. And currently the later has a lot more power than the former.

My advice to my US friends from college, some of whom now maybe occupying decision making positions in various US State Dept. desks: Please don`t attack countries, if 99% of your countrymen do not understand enough about those countries to know whether they have tomatoes or not, or where those countries are even located on the map, or how to even pronounce the names of those countries correctly.

Then again, if 99% of the US population knew anything about the countries that the US attacks, they may not support those attacks. So it is actually in the interests of the US govt. to have a foreign-policy ignorant population, which readily accepts Bush`s analysis of world politics. Just like it is in the interest of the OBL`s of the world to have ignorant followers, who accept his teachings on Islam.

I hope the recent success of the maulvi brigade in Pakistan will make the Americans realize their foreign policy adventures and attempts to subjugate this brigade, is actually having the opposite effects. I hope instead of bombing, now the US will decide to dipolomatically engage all parties, and try to get to the core of the human rights issues (many of which the maulvi brigade has a correct stance - like the Palestinian issue).

hamidm2:
You can`t convert from Muslim to anthing else in Pakistan, otherwise you are liable to be killed according to Islamic laws. You can`t convert in India according to the new laws promulgated against any kind of religous conversions- the Hindus are getting insecure about their religion too.

You live in the US as it is, so I guess u can convert to anything here.

Church of Scientology is supposed to be fun. You may get to hang out with some celebrities. anyone know anything about it ?

nasah:
let me guess... u don`t like/trust Musharraf ? right ?

this has been a great week for islam ..........

first the mullahs won big in pakistan paving the way for allah`s return to islamabad; then the umah was able to slaughter over a hundred hedonistic infidels in bali; and now taslima nasreen has been sentenced to one year in prison for writing a book .............verily, the forces of allah are on the march ........... how do i officially convert to hindooism?..........and i am not setting a foot in filthy ganga, or putting that silly red paint on my forehead ........