Myopic, Malevolent, Megalomaniac

Ref Sangilikkaruppan #130

[Unkalji, Haha you do seem to have a sense of humor after all.]

How about if I call you Fakhr from now on instead of Sangilikkaruppan? You think you have enough sense of humor to handle that?

sameerjb -- just clear a factual error u made -- no one from noorani`s party won any seats from karachi as u said -- not even the provincial ones -- they are all JUI or JI --

dost-mittar #140: The answer to your question is provided by hari in reply #141. In our part of the world, coming to power of Taliban and BJP did not soften their stands and MMA is going to follow the same line. Taliban said many good things about women before controlling all of Afghanistan but went as conservative as possible. Whether it is Taliban or MMA and Qazi Saheb of JI, the traditions and examples of last 1400 years of conservative Muslim rulers dictate a certain conservative path for deobandis and wahabis. The MMA is motly deobandi with only couple of winners from Shah Ahmed Noorani`s barelvi group in Karachi. For deobandis and wahabis, the most pure and highly admired example of Islam in politics was provided by Syed Ahmed Shaheed Barelvi and Shah Ismail in the northwest frontier mountains around 1831. Even the barelvis look more towards sufis of Persia and Arabia than liberal and enlightened Punjabi, Sindhi and Pathan sufis like Baba Farid, BUlley Shah, Shah Hussain, Khawaja Ghulam Farid, Sacchal Sarmust, Shah Latif Bhattai, Shahbaz Qalander and Khushal Khan Khattack. Whenever they mention desi sufis, it is often conservatives like Data Ganj Bakhsh and Shah Rukn-e-Alam. The teachings of liberal sufis could become tremendously powerful bridge between liberal/ seculars and Muslims one one hand and powerful tool to improving relations with India, particularly of Punjabi and Sindhi origins on the other. Obviously this is not much useful for certain vested interests and agencies.
So Qazi and Fazloo are more equivalent to Advani, Moodi and Mullah Omar and women and minorities will not fair well under their rule.

Here is one of the best article thus far on post election scenario and problems. This one is from Nation daily. It was difficult to choose this one over another good analysis by Kuldip Natar in the same issue. I will just quote the last sentence of Kuldip Nayar`s article: ``The bst way to fight fundamentalism is to become more liberal``. Fellow Pakistanis: Think abot it seriously.

Living with the MMA
Sherry Rehman
Every election in Pakistan, no matter how managed or controlled, has produced a ripple of optimism and hope for the future. Election 2002, however, will have the dubious distinction of going down in history as one that has yielded a wave of anxiety about the fate of the new parliament, government, and chronically endangered democratic process. An unprecedented level of uncertainty in the fragility of emerging coalitions is one critical factor contributing to the atmosphere of pervasive gloom. ...

#139 Sameer:

When speaking of separate universities for women, this is exactly what Taliban promised when it debarred women from education and said they had planned to build separate schools but it never materialized; the outcome was thousands of girls/women were left without anything. In fact, there were stories where previous girls schools were emptied of students and given to madrassas for boys or schools for boys.

How about building schools first and then talking. As a guarantee, people ought to demand that guaranteed and compulsory primary/secondary/high school education be given as ``birth right`` to all people irrespective of gender. Then these mullahs have to abide by the constitution and not what they ``think``.

Heeeeeeeere comes finally Islam in Pakistan to fulfill Jinnah`s vision, at least so thinks Qazi. From News:

MMA to abolish co-education: Qazi

Says honour killing un-Islamic [thank god]; no job restriction
on women [on women?]; welcomes Vajpayee`s visit

PESHAWAR: The Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) would seek to ban co-education, Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Vice President of the MMA, told thousands of burqa-clad female supporters of the alliance here on Sunday

He said women should not be forced to wear the all-enveloping Burqa but should have to follow Islamic sharia laws. ``There will be no restrictions on women but they have to live according to the teachings of Islam,`` Qazi said.

``We will abolish co-education and we will set up separate universities for girls,`` he said. He spoke to the women from behind a curtain. Qazi also promised that the Islamist parties would do away with the tradition of ``honour killings``, in which male relatives in feudal-dominated rural and tribal areas kill female relatives accused of immoral behaviour.

The MMA won 45 seats, up from just two in 1997. It also won a majority in the NWFP Assembly, and has become the largest party in the Balochistan Assembly. Qazi promised equal job opportunities for women, and new laws on violence against women. ``We will give women honour, respect and dignity, and bring laws to end discriminatory laws,`` Qazi said. ``We will abolish the un-Islamic practice of honour killings,`` he said.

Party officials said the convention was called to dispel worries that the MMA would clamp down Taliban-style on women if it came to power. Allaying the fears as propaganda, Qazi said the ``massive participation at the rally today is proof that both men and women want Islam in this country``. ``We will treat women with respect, provide them education and training and there will be no job restriction on women.``

``Islam is the only religion which gives shelter, protection and all political and other rights to women,`` the leader of the JI women`s wing Aisha Munnwar told the gathering. ``We will start a movement which will be a base for Islamic revolution and women`s welfare in Pakistan,`` she said. Another top JI women`s representative, Koasar Firdous, said, ``Our first priority is to give respect in Pakistani society to the women.``

Qazi said the MMA plans to set up educational institutions exclusively for women, including universities and vocational training centres. Women will receive both religious and secular education and female experts in teaching, medicine and other fields would be offered ``a conducive atmosphere to work with dignity.``

``Laws will be passed against sexual harassment of women`` and special centres will be established for widows and destitutes, he said as chants of `Allah-o-Akbar` and `Long Live MMA` punctuated his speech. ``Islam has given women more rights than any other religion,`` he said adding that ``it allows woman to marry a person of her choice.``

He also declared as ``wrong`` a ban tribesmen had clamped on women`s right to vote during the general elections, saying the MMA would abolish all unfair practices. Several provincial and central leaders of the MMA`s women`s wing also addressed the convention.

Qazi Hussain Ahmad, while welcoming the upcoming visit of Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, said that his party has always advocated meaningful dialogue with India.

Talking to newsmen here at Tehmas Khan Football Stadium at Shahi Bagh after addressing the JI women`s convention on Sunday, Qazi said his party`s objection to Vajpayee`s visit to Pakistan in 1998 was in reaction to denouncing by him of geographical boundaries between Pakistan and India as artificial.

``We had never objected to the visit of late Rajiv Gandhi,`` he remarked. When asked about his position in the future government, Qazi Hussain Ahmad said he is not going to accept any office in the expected government of the alliance of religio-political parties either at the centre or in the provinces. ``I want to serve the masses while living among them and do not need any position in future government,`` he maintained.

Commenting on the reaction of the Hamid Karzai government to the victory of the MMA in polls, he said the Afghan government is the United States-backed puppet regime and its foreign ministry is being run by the Americans.

Regarding the formation of government at the Centre, Qazi reiterated that Maulana Fazal-ur-Rehman is the unanimous parliamentary leader of the alliance of the six religio-political parties.

He said they will enter into coalition with only those political parties which accept their condition of backing Maulana Fazal-ur-Rehman for the top slot. He maintained that they will accept only those foreign funded projects which do not affect Islamic norms of society. He said he is ready to fulfil his resolve of converting Governor`s House and Frontier House into educational institutions.

jay 132:

What happened to mr ylh ?

P Mishra, Omar et al:

I read that the women from Banu and other areas in NWFP, BALUCH etc were not allowed to vote(on the most part);

Wouldn`t that invalidate the election that MMA is so proud to announce?

pmishra2-- hahha surely u jest yaar -- no thanks but not interested in seeking asylum anywhere in the foreseeable future -- as for the `morass` we are in why dont u worry more about gujarat yaar -- and speaking of asylum are you sure your not in one ! hahah --

Sameer: Here is my tribute to the great Punjabi poet Ustad Daman in his istyle. I am sure if he were alive he would have said something similar.

saadi paalicy bass ayho.
Fissile dao, Missile lao.

Camp kholo, RiyaleaN badle,
band karo phir DaaleyaN badle,
paise nu apna Khuda kaho..
Fissile dao, Missile lao.

khabay gwanDi nu dewo unglaN,
sajjay gawandi nu wando raflaN,
puThi je paindi jaapay baazi,
Dhihla munh kar, bholay ban rahvo..

Osamay nu pakRo, te Laden lukao,
doweiN paasay,behja behja karao,
eho je veile nai murh murh aunday,
dowiN hathi laddo bhoro ji bhoro...

Wazarat te Sadar nu akhaN wikhao,
kare oon aan je, thallay chuk laho,
jado loRh jaapay, jadoN jee chahwe,
apnay hi mulakh nu ja sar karo..
Fissile dao, Missile lao.....

bhukhay awaam da karo na jhohra,
Europe America ch rakho phera tora,
kade New York, kade Tora Bora,
aidhar di suno, udhar jaa kaho...
Fissile lao, Missile dao.
saadi paalicy bass ayho....

Plot thickens! From News daily for people interested in detailed political landscape of Pakistan.
The brewing deadly intrigue
By Nusrat Javeed
ISLAMABAD: Within the crowd of our intrigue-addicted notables with agricultural land that has assembled in the Q-faction of Pakistan Muslim League these days, a deadly intrigue is brewing. It`s immediate objective is to delay, if not scuttle for good, the nomination of Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali as the prime ministerial candidate of the party, which had emerged as the single largest group after elections held on Oct 10.
The long-term objective, however, is to check the growth of Chaudhrys -Shujaat Hussain and Pervez Elahi- as the ultimate king makers and power brokers. The ongoing game also has the making of a proxy war, ganging some discreet political managers of the Musharraf government up against the most trusted principal secretary of his, Tariq Aziz.
It will be for the first time since holding of elections that Central Working Committee of the Q-faction of PML meets in Islamabad on Saturday. After expected postmortem of their failings at polls, the movers and shakers of the ``king`s party`` have to get down to the business of government formation. And you begin doing that by nominating a prime ministerial candidate. Putting the obvious two and two together, most Islamabad-based journalists had already narrowed their choice to Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali in this regard.
Jamali could also make it to Prime Minister`s office in 1985, when another military government was moving to put a civilian face on it after holding the non-party elections. Elahi Bux Soomro and late Muhammad Khan Junejo were the others. The ``path dependent`` observers were compelled to imagine that going through the similar motions in 2002, the military government of General Musharraf would either go for him or Soomro.
Speaker of the dismissed national assembbly of 1997, Soomro, had lost elections from the home constituency of Jacobabad. The wagging tongues of Islamabad insist that Elahi Bux lost because his own nephew, Mohammadmian -the incumbent governor of Sindh, was not very motivated to help his rise. The drawing room gossip also claims that those factions of Jamalis who are settled in Jacobabad were also ``worked upon``. So, Mir Zafarullah ends as the one and only candidate vying for the prime ministerial office from the PML-Q.
Whatever the truth, Jamali had certainly emerged as the most formidable candidate since compilation of the election result. The most solid point going in his favour is the fact that his elections would give Pakistan a Prime Minister for the first time, from a strategically placed province with abundance of tapped and untapped resources of energy. Islamabad has seldom acknowledged the worth of this province. That led to a lot of anger and resentment there, which the election of Jamali may help assuaging.
But only the dispassionate commentators, who are not in the game of grabbing power, could foresee the feel-good sides of the possible election of Jamali. The real players of the palatial intrigues see things differently. And to many of them, Chaudhrys of Gujrat had emerged as the most powerful family since the fall of Nawaz Sharif in Oct 1999. ``If not checked here and now, the family has all the potential of turning unmanageable in the end. As the House of Ittefaq proved to be after years of growing under the patronage of General Zia`s military government,`` they say.
Chaudhrys maintain the lifestyle and mindset of proud and rustic Jats from Gujrat. But the feudal families of Punjab, the English colonialists would mention in official gazetteers, consider them ``upstarts.`` The Sharifs of Lahore were placed in the same category. And after enduring them for over 20 years, ``the gentlemanly class`` of our rural notables is pretty weary of this type. They rather suspect the Chaudhrys taking the same path to upward mobility in power politics the Sharifs had traveled before.
Many from amongst the recently elected members of the national assembly on PML-Q tickets also belong to ``the gentlemanly class`` of Punjab. A good number of them had already reached Islamabad to smell and participate in brewing games. And the most popular is the one ``forewarning`` the-powers-that-be. ``Don`t give a free hand to Chaudhrys, when it comes to select a Prime Minister,`` is the desperate, one-line message. What has really hit the panic button is the quick act of Chaudhry Pervez Elahi in collecting numbers, which could smoothly take him to the Chief Minister House of the most powerful province, Punjab. Nawaz Sharif had also reached Islamabad after consolidating his position in that office.
Zia had alienated the mass of Sindhis by hanging Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. As if to compensate he appointed Muhammad Khan Junejo as the Prime Minister after holding the non-party elections in 1985. Though a thoroughbred democrat, Junejo was a lie-low type who also was tight-fisted in doling out the state patronage. As the chief minister of Punjab, Nawaz Sharif was the other extreme. In no time he began outshining the PML President, Junejo, and start building the populist constituency of his own. After defying the first government of Ms Bhutto from 1988 to 1990, he doubly enhanced his stature and relevance.
The opponents of Chaudhrys allege that the Jats of Gujrat are planning the repeat of his tactics. ``They are propping Jamali to Prime Minister`s office.
For, he has no popular constituency. To survive, he would always be looking up to the chief minister of Punjab and his official and private resources for keeping the majority in the future assembly intact. And we don`t need elaborating the rest,`` begin the conspiratorial whispers in Islamabad these days.
Every journalist prefers the short and sweet of the intrigues coming his or her way. Don`t blame this correspondent, therefore, to instantly getting to the question: ``Who else, if not Jamali?`` None of anti-Jamali operators, one has been talking to since Thursday, provided any answer. Most of the time is still spent in drumming the ``disastrous consequences`` of giving Chaudhrys a free hand. Yet, the contours of the game-to-be are becoming clearer after hours of separate conversations with a score of PML-Q leaders, elected to the national assembly on Oct 10.
To delay or pre-empt the nomination of Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali, some are definitely set to play the ``Punjab card`` at PML-Q meeting Saturday. It`s to be recalled and rubbed in that it was a ``dynamic Punjabi`` from Lahore, whom the military had removed on October 1999. Though candidates sticking to the Nawaz faction fared miserably during the recently held polls, the dispassionate analysis of them proves that the toppled prime minister continues savoring a deeper and vast constituency, at least in the urban areas of Punjab.
``The future Prime Minister must come from Punjab to make Nawaz history,`` many voices are set to demand at PML-Q meeting. It would also be better if the person looked for were associated with Lahore as well. Though the sluggish mien of Mian Azhar could hardly sell in the macho streets of the Punjab metropolis, the handlers of PML-Q had built many hopes about him. He had lost and we are only left with Humayun Akhtar returning to the national assembly from Lahore on PML-Q ticket.
Humayun had looks, which could kill. He can even hire the most deadly spin-doctor from the image building industry of New York. But the military elite will hesitate, at least at this stage, to launch him to the Prime Minister`s house. Just for the reason that he is the son of a former head of the ISI who led waging the jihad in Afghanistan. The ``negative`` sides of the family tree of Humayun can go in favor of another urbanite Punjabi, Khurshid Mehmud Kasuri. He also has funds to dispose off for building the image of a dynamic deliverer about his person. His launch can also help assuaging the alarmist concerns MMA had set amongst the liberals of this world after resurgent with a bang on Oct 10. Yet the question: How the propping of urbanites, the likes of Humayun and Khurshid, can satisfy the Mians, Ranas and Sardars of the rural Punjab who also feel uncomfortable with Chaudhrys for they are Jats. And not the ``valiant`` Rajputs or the ``assiduous`` Araeens, for example.
``The populists`` are often tempted to act on whims anywhere in the world. Nawaz Sharif was also prone to it, no doubt. But he had developed the authority of putting ``all-chiefs-no-Indians`` variety of ``Punjabi notables`` under his disciplinary thumb. All have now become equals in that faction of the PML that had ditched him after the fall of Oct 1999. Fasten your seat belts. We are about to board a fast train to highly engaging power games.

omar_r_quraishi #128

In spite of your ``sophistication`` you are unable to distinguish between an indian nationalist and a BJP follower with Sarvarkar-Jinnah TNT ideology. Oh well, the loss is yours...

One final comment on your elected mullahs. Overall, this is a good thing. They are a real part of Pakistan and represent a small but significant sections thinking. By bringing them into the democratic process, there is hope that in 20-30 years time you may move out the morass you are in. Sticking with military rule means that you will never leave the morass. Excluding them against the peoples will will lead you straight to Algeria.

Again, if you need asylum in india sometime soon, drop me a line..

TEARS FOR PAKISTANIS,

There was a time following the islamic revolution in Iran, the educated were welcomed in the west, as poor sould could not take the yoke of islam. Today the situation is very different, every pakistani has been tarnished with the jihadic brush. For the least of reasons, they are being deported, student visas are rarer than moderate muslims in pakistan. It is a pathetic stuation for the likes of ylh who have tasted the freedoms of the west, now has to grow a beard just to survive. The situation is far worse for women, the likes of anNy who happen to have a mind of her own.

At last the educated have been forced to pay the price for their silence, for their support for jihadists disguised as freedom struggle or great low cost military strategy. All of the ones who refused to say aloud or even accept that killing of kafirs is not jihad have to grow beards to cover their emberassment or be under burkha to show their insignificance.

At last the monster from the TNT embriyo is emerging.

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Unkalji,
Haha you do seem to have a sense of humor after all.
I have heard of Parkarvarkar (raise the petticoat).

sameerjb-- thanks v much for the reference -- ill check it up -- and the reference to the nation article -- well there r lots of theories going around and no one really thinks -- at least not in the press -- that the results and the MMA win was completely manipulated --

pmishra2 -- hahah your funny dude -- the extrapolations that you infer show you have a very fertile imagination -- no i didnt think everyone here is ``really, really stupid`` -- just you ! hahah -- and that too im saying for a reason coz most of your posts on chowk seem to be thoroughly reactionary and quite devoid of either reason or good taste -- and pmishra2 at least the BJP did not need any rigging to win ! or the shiv sena for that matter, probably your party of first choice, or is it the RSS or the VHP ---

arjun -- be my guest and go and check that thing on google -- u wont find any letter like that -- quite the opposite actually -- but anyway go ahead and be my guest --

MISSING PAKISTANIS

One of the strogest proponents of the 3 percent theorists and the publicist of moderate democracy loving pakistanis, Mr Tahmed is missing since the elections. YLh, of course since his deportation has not been able to find much time. If these two can accept their complete misreading of the pak psyche and the rise to power of the children of TNT, it could just be the moment of pride for pakistan, two who have learned from chowk.

omar_r_quraishi: I picked up that incident from an article in this edition of south asia tribune at www.satribune.com I will go back and provide you with actual url. It was expected because MMA has won Islamabad seat and area around Faisal mosque, F-8 area, is little upper middle class with some people who do not mind little freedom of fashion, perhaps. At the same time it is very close to mostly conservative Afghan refugee dominated G-8 sector.
Here is another intersting information, I picked up just now from an article by Shahwar Junaid in today`s Nation daily:
[One assessment is that the government was not able to manipulate the election machinery in the NWFP and Balochistan to the extent that it would have liked to and local staff did not cooperate in the manipulation as required. The percentage of votes cast in both provinces remained consistent at about 24 to 35 per cent, regardless of the affiliation of successful candidates. Elsewhere in the country, in every constituency where pro-government parties won, the number of votes polled was about 10 to 25 % higher than the norm and the additional votes were cast in favor of the winning, pro-government candidates.]
I guess, pro-government voters in winnable constituencies were more enthusiatic than other places? Interesting ``conspiracy`` theory?

omar_r_quraishi #123

Welcome back ! Andnso surprise, you are spending your time ``explaining`` how heavy support for fundamentalist
parties in Pakistan doesn`t mean anything. And yes, some guy
called Lieven also think so and he is amerikan so must always
be right. On the other hand
support for BJP in India, well, than means Hitler has more-or-less
been reborn, arre, the fascism and look they have the swastika
already !!

What a joke! What hypocrisy! You must think we are really, really stupid. Good luck with your hatemongers. I have a feeling that you might need asylum someplace outside pakistan sometime soon.

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I said in #56 wrt Pakistani establishment and religious parties
``The shady liason of the past is now a marriage with one spouse yelling desertion``

The correct statement is: ``The shady liason of the past is now a marriage with the bride proudly displaying the meher``

samer jb-- could you elaborate more on the incident u said happened in islamabad -- was it recent and did u read it in some paper or is it hearsay or anecdotal -- thanks in advance

since you guys are talking about the elections results, here`s something that will be published in this saturday`s dawn -- feedback can be mailed to the email address at the end of the article, which is actually part of a column called `media review` -- hence the reference to the coverage in foreign newspapers -- thanks


The rise of the MMA

The American and British press has shown a distinct wariness in the dramatic success of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA), perhaps understandably so, since this six-party alliance had an overtly anti-west agenda.
Writing in The Guardian on Oct. 12, Anatol Lieven, a senior associate of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, says that the increase in the vote for the MMA was “worrying and unwelcome, but it does not have to lead to disaster.”
Lieven wrote that the “key question” – presumably as far as America and the rest of the coalition allies are concerned – would now be how far an MMA government in the NWFP is able to block joint actions by Pakistan and the US against Al Qaeda. Several commentators speaking on various private channels like Geo, Indus Vision and ARY have said that since the decision to stay in the war against terror was one taken by the federal government that policy is likely to remain the same. However, one analyst did ask the relevant question that what would happen if a raid against a suspect Al Qaeda terrorist has to be carried not in FATA but in Peshawar? As in, what if the provincial government refused assistance? To this, the answer came that the federal government has paramilitary and military troops at its disposal but still it would be an unsavoury and embarrassing situation were an elected government to refuse assistance to Islamabad in such a delicate matter. Besides, maybe some people forget that it was the police that carried out the raid in Karachi that netted the much-wanted so-called 20th hijacker Ramzi bin Al Shibh.
Going back to this article, Lieven wrote that the MMA was a “very long way” away from gaining “a plurality, let alone a majority”. And then the point that has been made in the editorial columns of some Pakistani newspapers (including Dawn), that the alliance is not a homogenous/monolithic bloc but a “highly disparate and mutually antagonistic alliance” especially since it contains parties with varying degrees of militancy.
“Maybe hatred of America and of General Musharraf, and the joys of controlling provincial governments, will hold them together – but maybe not,” he writes. However, the very cynical among us, including some in the PML(N) and the MQM, have said that the MMA’s success is deliberate ploy undertaken by the manipulators and that the actual ‘king’s party’ was not the PML(Q) but the MMA. Khawaja Saad Rafique is reported to have said this at a news conference, but a few days later we heard of reports of the PML(N) contacting the MMA at the highest level with former prime minister Nawaz Sharif calling up and congratulating Qazi Hussain Ahmed.
The Guardian article then goes on to say that it is worrying that the MMA had “virtually obliterated most of its secular rivals” in the Frontier. However, perhaps if one were to do a detailed analysis of the total number of votes cast per party and then multiply it by the turnout percentage we would probably get some interesting figures. For example, taken at the national level, according to the Election Commission of Pakistan the MMA received 19 per cent of all votes cast. If the turnout, say, is 40 per cent (by all means an optimistic estimate), then 7.6 per cent of electorate voted for the MMA. This obviously is more an indictment of our electoral system which seems to rely almost exclusively on the first-past-the-post principle rather than the more equitable proportional representation concept (applied only to reserved seats). Of course, this figure of 7.6 per cent assumes that those who did not turn up to vote were all non-MMA supporters, a fairly safe assumption since it has been widely acknowledged that the alliance did manage to mobilize all its vote-bank on a fairly large scale.
Anatol Levien then writes that the MMA could be expected to gain a “near-stranglehold” on the senate and that this “could block any continuation of the social reforms” begun by Gen Musharraf. This remains to be seen though it is likely that the MMA’s majorities in the two smallest provinces might more than offset the gains made by the PML(Q) and the PPPP in the larger provinces in terms of the representatives each province will send to the senate. However, the writer does correctly gauge that it is not sure to what extent the presence of MMA governments in these two provinces would undermine the hunt for Al Qaeda, keeping in mind that their already existed considerable hostility to these operations in FATA.
The rest is quite instructive, thought nothing new for most Pakistanis: “If the MMA does succeed in obstructing US goals, the Pakistani administration would probably come under intense US pressure to get rid of it. Pakistani governments have shown again and again that with the support of the army, they can indeed get rid of governments in Pakistan`s three smaller provinces.”
As for the Punjab, the MMA made very limited inroads, but these were still significant, especially in areas where the writer says there is “heavy military recruiting”. In fact, NA-49 Islamabad, lying next to Rawalpindi division – the army’s heartland – now has an MMA MNA.
In their reporting of the 2002 elections, The Guardian, The New York Times and The Washington Post generally took the line that the MMA’s big win would hand them control of two provinces that were key to the anti-terrorism campaign, not least because several senior Taliban and Al Qaeda figures are believed to be hiding there. Mian Aslam, the MNA-elect from Islamabad told The Guardian in response to a question that the MMA would “never” had over Taliban suspects to Washington. “The Taliban are our brothers. They are good people. The idea they are bad is a misconception of the west,” Aslam said, perhaps forgetting that a vast majority of Pakistanis found their style of governance, to say the least, repulsive and against all religious or civilized norms. Round about the same time the Jamaat-i-Islami’s Syed Munawwar Hasan and senior MMA leader told a press conference in Karachi that the Al Qaeda and Taliban were like “brothers” and they would never be handed over to any foreign power.
In an interview to The Observer, Qazi Hussain Ahmed said: “We are not extremists. We would like to make bridges with the West – but we want justice. Injustice is being done to Muslims in Palestine and Kashmir…. We don’t want to chop people’s hands off. We don’t want to make all women wear burqas. We live in the world. We are educated.”
The MMA win also, for better or for worse, shows that emotional slogans can sometimes be much better in garnering votes than discussing issues that really matter, like providing clean drinking water, better roads, sanitation, electricity, telephones, a safer and cleaner living environment or increased job opportunities. It remains to be seen whether the initial anti-US and anti-‘war against terror’ platform of the MMA gives way to more bread and butter issues.—OMAR R. QURAISHI (email: omarq@cyber.net.pk)

Myopic, Malevolant, Meglomaniac...add to that Mendacious and Moron and you describe Sameer to a tee.

Dionysus

Ref Subroto #118

[Re 115 Harimau ``There is a strong possibility that your sons-in-law might be named Swaminathan (Swami - God, nathan - master) or Doraiswamy (Dorai -Lord, Swamy - as before), which would be a MAJOR improvement over Fakhar. ``
Aha but then he could have a surname of Zhawar (the marathi equivalent of fuc..r) or could be named Gandpuse (pimple on bum) maybe even a Ghorpade (iggy the iguana).]

Anyone who marries a Ghati deserves whatever life dumps on them.

And you seem to be forgetting Dikshit and Ashole among Ghati names.

There are two clear opinions developing among Pakistani press regarding the outcome of the election. While pre-poll rigging and fudging counting in selected rural seats is agreed upon by all, both opinions regarding MMA strong showing are exactly opposite of each other.
1. The government`s overkilling of PPP (P) and PML (N) left a vacuum filled by only other anti-Musharraf and anti-establishment force, MMA. Obviously this depicts the myopic vision of military establishment.
2. More popular among international and anti-establishment Pakistani diaspora press like South Asia Tribune are more convinced of MMA victory as much engineered by the establishment as PML (Q). Basically the plan was: If you support Musharraf or baradri system or lotas, vote PML (Q); if oppose Musharraf on any basis, vote preferably MMA over PPP (P) or PML N). This shows the extent military establishment is ready to go to keep their hold on power.
The second one ihas started to gain acceptance in the Pakistani media also because, a) they are not willing to believe military establishment to be so stupid not to calculate the risk of PPP (P) and PML (N) overkill in order to block these parties from winning. Morover, it is becoming clear that PML (Q) and MMA will ultimately join hands to form government at the center and control Punjab, NWFP and Balochistan together, and possibly Sindh too, if MQM could be wooed to join hands.
Another very strong reason being pointed out is that the results make everybody in the military establishment happy, given a strong presence of Islamists like General Aziz in the military. He has even given statement welcoming the election results. The so-called Liberal group in the military establishment is happy to keep PPP (P) out and Islamists are happy to have MMA part of the power now.
It becomes more understanding now that madrassah degrees were accepted as bacjeolar degree equivalent while bar at- Law from Lincoln Inn was unacceptable. The MMA was given much free access to politicking than other parties and reports are that in Karachi and NWFP, agencies openly supported MMA because PML (Q) had no chance of winning there. An article by Abdul Sattar in SA Tribune details the MMA activities with the help of invisible hands and MQM and PPP are providing further details of orchestrated victories of MMA in Karachi.
There you have it. MMA victory pleases Islamists in the military establishment and gives them something to cheer about following Lusharraf`s U-turn of longterm association of Islamists and fundamentalists with the military establishment in destabilizing elected governments and providing blood in persuit of Afghanistan and Kashmir policies.
The latest about prime minister slot is that Taj Mohammad Jamali, Farooq Leghari and Khursheed Mahmood Kasuri are top of the list unless MMA asks this position for Qazi Hussain Ahmed who has a very long History of collaboration with ISI, well-known and even disliked with Jamaat-e-Islami. Shaukat Aziz will be brought in as senator and keep his position.
There you have it. Between Musharraf, MMA and PML (Q), any chance of even negotiation with India about anything is out the window for the duration of this holy and unholy alliance in the making. The parties who opposed the creation of Pakistan are in bed with the party who basically run Pakistan dry through spending and ever present lotas (hypocrites and opportunists).
Already some incidents in Islamabad and other places have taken place that suggest things to come. Near Faisal Mosque, Islamabad, a group of girls were beaten up, reminiscent of Taliban style, by MMA workers for not wearing enough Islamic clothes. Police actually supported the MMA workers as people belonging to ruling party. similar events are taking place at small scale, yet, at other places. The limit of Islamic zealots is beyond control of even the leadership of MMA because they do not need orders to perform sacred duties.
Jamaat-e-Islami and Fazloo are already demandingg changes in PTV culture.
Good luck to women, girls, minorities and freedom loving people of Pakistan.

Re 115 Harimau ``There is a strong possibility that your sons-in-law might be named Swaminathan (Swami - God, nathan - master) or Doraiswamy (Dorai -Lord, Swamy - as before), which would be a MAJOR improvement over Fakhar. ``
Aha but then he could have a surname of Zhawar (the marathi equivalent of fuc..r) or could be named Gandpuse (pimple on bum) maybe even a Ghorpade (iggy the iguana).
Its a big bad world lets be careful out there...

Re: Dost-Mittar
``…I dont think a madrassa degree qualified…"
Wrong, you would be surprised. Musharraf`s government upheld a madrassa certificate as being the equivalent of a college degree.
``… MMA have been duly elected by the people…"
Perhaps you missed out on the criticism of the EU and the Pakistan Human Rights Commission that declared the elections to be `deeply flawed`.
I do, however, agree that the MMA should not only govern, but should one day come to power throughout Pakistan. That will be ultimate reward for MMA supporters who live in the comfort of liberal democracies while wishing a theocracy for the Pakistani people. After the creation of Bangladesh, this is the 2nd logical needed `endorsement` of TNT that is sorely needed. :) Who knows, the MMA might usher in free markets, capitalism, greater scientific achievements, greater integration with the rest of the world, increased Pakistani exports, a run for the money to Bangalore. Anything is possible, right?

Re Romair`s Post:

Quite a heartfelt one. You`re probably right about the unwillingness to cede power to the Mullahs by the educated elite.

Keep this in mind however...the MMA won a province today, what if they win the country tomorrow? The MMA does not recognize parliamentary democracy. What if they choose the path of democracy to take power but refuse to take that power when it comes time to cede it? Is it ``democratic`` to elect a government which will never have elections again.

I see your point about the mullahs never being given a chance too. Maybe they should be given a chance to rule Pakistan as well, just like the BJP proved itself to be as bad as any other party in India. After all, the governing elite of Pakistan from 1947 onwards has always played lip service to Islam for the sake of the masses while being quite liberal in their personal lives.

Maybe it is time for that dichotomy to end. Let Pakistan immerse itself in Islam the way Iran did. Let the Maulvis make Pakistan as ``Pak`` as they can with the implementation of Shariah and an isolationist foreign policy.
If the Mullahs then do good by Pakistan, the country would have found it`s way as an Islamic emirate. If the Mullahs end up like the mullahs of Iran, well at least the people themselves will rid themselves of the ghost of Islam. You may then end up dropping the ``Islamic`` from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a dichotomy by itself.

IMHO:

Short term: Good. Because the religious parties have something to ``lose`` hopefully, there would be less ``jehad`` calls or religious blood letting on shias and other minorities. That way Mush has played a good tactical hand by just giving them marginal power but not all the power.

Long term: Not good. Reports indicate relig parties recd appx 25% of the seats which could keep them marginal for a while, but they would have enough time to consolidate and increase their cloud via perks of the office. It is also not good because as parliamentarians they would want to have access to classified info on nuclear and other sensitive issues and could pass on that info to Al-Queida types(not that they are doing it already with the help of other supporters in the intell community)

What happened to the Chinese equation since I understand one of China`s muslim area(xing...g or something) borders NWFP and with MMA`s ``strategic depth`` in Balochisthan they could start giving trouble to the Chinese front also?

Any comments? Me thinks, the whole thing about MMA winning was engineered for something big. God knows what?

Ref hamidm2 #60

[.............verily, the forces of allah are on the march ........... how do i officially convert to hindooism?..........and i am not setting a foot in filthy ganga, or putting that silly red paint on my forehead ........]

Listen, if you remain a Muslim, there is a possibility that one your two precious daughters will bring home a guy named Fakhar as a prospective husband...... I believe there was a candidate in the Paki elections named Fakhar Iman.

Can you imagine your friends and in-laws asking, ``Where is that Fakhar?`` This would be Life imitating Art, the Art being the movie ``Meet the Parents`` where the principal character is named Gaylord Focker.

By all means, convert to Hinduism. There is a strong possibility that your sons-in-law might be named Swaminathan (Swami - God, nathan - master) or Doraiswamy (Dorai -Lord, Swamy - as before), which would be a MAJOR improvement over Fakhar.

Shut up, Musharraf tells EU

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_85223,00050002.htm
//....The EU observers team chief, John Cushnahan, released a scathing report on Saturday of last week`s general elections, calling them ``deeply flawed`` and attacking constitutional changes announced by Musharraf in August.//

....Mushy Boy is growling like a caged dog. Even biting the hand that feeds him. What happens when Paris Club won`t through bones any more.

Ref sac #109

[P.S: Maulana Noorani is fluent in 12 languages including German and French. Wonder who he talks to?]

Aren`t all these guys taking their instructions directly from God Himself? But then, Arabic should be sufficient for a conversation with Allah.

sac,

I think it was Time magazine`s comment on the Indian PM, Narashima Rao:

``He speaks 12 languages, but doesnt say much in any of them!``:)

re ROmair #89:

Seems this guy will never shut up.

Who is not accepting the success the MMA has had? Creating imaginary opponents seems to be an essential ingredient of the Kakul curriculum......

What does land reforms in the NWFP mean? Name 3 so-called `feduals` in the NWFP. Can somebody please explain to me what does the oft-repeated term `land reforms` means? Who is going to be the great reformer who`ll come up with this magical potion that will solve all of our problems?

The MMA has won in its traditional strongholds of Karachi, Lahore and NWFP. Whats the big deal? The feudals left in the playing arenas of Sind and Punjab have won as in the past. Sameer and I have always commented on the feudals ability to act as a bulwark against the fundos. Nothing new there either.

The field marshal and equally deluded idiots on this site have always came out with the 5% votebank argument the fundamentalists have enjoyed in the past. What they forget is that 5% always votes. That argument will hopefully not be repeated. Apart from pockets of urban Pakistan, the rest of the country is deeply religious and getting more so due to the failure of other alternatives.

MMA is composed of a bunch of muddleheads with deep ideological differences who`ll be at each others throats in no time. Their so-called manifesto will closely follow the pattern outlined by hamidm. It means more miseries for the women folk and the minorities(as if they needed any help...). That will be price the mythical common man will have to pay in 2010 to come back to the way he was in 2002. Their unfortunately is no shortcut. It has taken the Iranians a decade and a half to realize that the promised revolution has taken them nowhere. Pakistan and other Muslim countries will have to suffer at the hands of the Islamists till they take their pounds of flesh. The risk is that the patient has had too many surgeries already. Surgeons like the field marshal always want to remove the tumor without looking at alternative treatments or underlying causes.....

The most regrettable thing coming out of this fiasco is the root of the problem that lies with the army`s occupation of Pakistan. Well meaning individuals like Sameer and temporal will be sidetracked into these minor details while the monster continues to devour Pakistan.

later
-sac

P.S: Maulana Noorani is fluent in 12 languages including German and French. Wonder who he talks to?

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Romair,
#89

Nice post.
Why did`nt the ``villager from Bannu`` not vote for Imran Khan`s party?
I think he has always said the ``right`` things for a Pakistani politician--criticise the US bombing of Afghanistan, the need for Pakistanis to be closer to Islam in their pvt lives, but to keep religion out of politics, support the dominant discourse of Pakistani stand on Kashmir, criticise the feudals.. etc etc...

Why was`nt his message more appealing to the average voter? Granted, he did better than his last effort. However, if anybody should have filled the political vacuum that Mushy created by weeding out the ``undesirables``; his party should have. I mean, he even took pains not aligning himself to closely to the King or his party.

You seem to have spun his party`s performance as positive. I can spin it negatively...if he couldnt win now, when the heck could he win? when the maulvis dissappoint the villagers?

Ref Field Marshal #48

[Relgious parties, in all countries, are always more dangerous when they are out of power, than when they are in power...]

For a moment, I thought you are absolving the BJP of any blame but, true to form, you followed that statement with

[.... (unless they are the no. 1 party, and form the national govt as in the case of the BJP. - this hasn`t happened in Pakistan).]

So, the victory of MMA is the triumph of democracy in Pakistan but the victory of BJP is the rise of extremism?

By the way, Musharraf has again denounced the polls in Kashmir as ``farcical``. Do you think he meant that Pak election rules were not applied there, regarding disqualification of candidates?

By the way, what about election results from Azad Kashmir and the Northern Areas? You guys keep talking about the four provinces of Pakistan: Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP. You mean to say that Indian Kashmiris must have the right of self-determination but not those under the thumb of Pakistan? As half a Kashmiri yourself, did you get half a vote or none at all?

naqshbandi

........ i am really impressed with maulana noorani`s credentials, specially the professorship at baghdad, but what has he really done ? ....... what did he accomplish as an MNA and what has he done for the people other than send poor young me to die in afghanistan and kashmir ............we might laugh at poor romair`s ``philanthrapist`` imran khan, but he has done a lot for the poor people of pakistan - and even though i think he is a political idiot, he continues to be the main beneficiary of my charity donations .......... what has the maulana done?

.............. but the big question is does the maulana believe in multi-party democracy or, like hassan turabi and the mad mullahs in iran, does he believe in one god, one party and one election ? ............ if you can assure me that he is a true democrat and not a momin who wants to establish allah`s kingdom by hook or crook, then i might consider overlooking the fact that he has sided with the horrible taliban, has called the murderer omar sheikh a mujahid and splashes water all over the plane toilet when flying first class on pia ................

.......... let`s not forget hitler was elected in 1933 and the rest is history ............

Zakk: Thanks for posting that article.

I agree, MMA has won and should govern. If they don`t govern well and people`s problems do not go away or get exacerbated, the logical thing is that people will vote them out next time.

Unless the people are really stoooopid and led to believe that MMA is governing fine, its just the secularists and the US/Jewish/India/Ahmedi/Shia conspiracy that is messing up people`s lives.

I for one, do not belive that Mullahs and Maulvis can solve any of the people`s problems... they can create many problems, generate frustration, threaten violence, fuel hatred, all by invoking their version of Islam- but visionary thinking, I don`t expect from them.

I would loved to be proved wrong.

temporal

............ do you really want me to write an article on the chowk? ......... sorry to disappoint you, but i don`t think i can do it ....... i couldn`t hold a coherent thought together for that long, and besides, who would put up with all those dots ............ it would be too hard and i really have nothing to say unless i have had three martinis too may and then at that point i don`t know what i am saying because i really don`t care what i am saying and sometimes i forget to put in the punctuation and that makes you mad and that in turn makes me sad because i really think that even though you are a rather anal grammararian you are an okay ..........

interesting article in the news today:

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2002-daily/14-10-2002/main/main7.htm
MMA right to govern must not be denied

By Nusrat Javeed

ISLAMABAD: A peculiar group of armchair liberals from amongst the elitist crowd of Islamabad sounds desperate. It seriously believes that USA would just abandon us, if not bombing with B-52s, in case Muttehidda Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) of the religious-right of Pakistan is allowed to form the provincial government in NWFP.

Besides pushing Islamabad `back into diplomatic isolation,` we are told, Mullahs` inclusion in the central government will also discourage foreign investment in the country and `cancel out` all the good work, Shaukat Aziz has presumably done for turning the economy around with active inputs from World Bank etc during the three years of General Musharraf.

Our elitist crowd never approved General Musharraf`s idea of holding elections. Pakistan, they always believed, is yet not ready for a sophisticated system of `free for all democracy.` It needed `at least a-ten-year rule by a benevolent despot before returning to the luxury of electoral politics.`
....

re: how Mushy boy lost Kashmir
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=254058
Sridhar

teemporal: Thanks for your post. Basically all this discussion could have been under any of three articles - your`s, Saima Shah`s and this one. Actually this one is in support of ``Unraveling Pakistan``, providing additional and electioneering theatrical acrobats of military establishment and by overkilling mainstream political parties. I would not have thought of writing it if not for your`s and Saima Sha`s article. I even picked the title MMM after Saima Sha`s 3M title.
faisaluno #96: absolutely. I second your thoughts. Not that everybody else pays taxes honestly but maulvis contribute absolutely nothing to national exchequer. Honestly speaking they do not even have the justification to ask government to bring running water or toilets to their mosques and madaris, unless asked shamelessly in the name of serving religion. Poor people depend these services before mullahs.

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if the maulvi leaders are so concerned about the plight of people from bannu, why were they sending these people to afghanistan to be slaughtered by the thousands? and what will stop these mullahs from sending these people to kashmir where they will murder innocent hindus and muslims before getting crushed like insects at the hands of indian security forces? and how many of these mullahs will send their own kith and kiln to fight in these battles?

who has gained besides the rapacious army generals and mullahs with the continued turmoil in Kashmir and afghanistan? who will the generals turn to when they need a fresh bunch of brain washed zombies to go into battles that enables these generals to send their sons to study in the u.s? (dont think mqm will be lining it cadres to go into kashmir). why is it such a surprise that army will support groups that protect its economic interest? what was the creation of iji all about? why is this election any different?

With regards to the plight of the poor man from bannu, the reason he is in the state that he is in is because he comes from a culture that celebrates rape and plunder and looks down upon hard work. as long as he does not develop enough sense to challenge the dogma passed down to him from generations, he will continue to live a life his forefathers have lived for centuries.

NAQSHABANDI

whats the difference between a deobandi and a wahabi and are you one of those if so cool...........i have some hardcore wahabi friends that i tempt with drinking beer me i prefer islamic revolution along iranian lines im half persian u know


javid eslami enqalab javid

Romair (89):
Good post.
Lets talk realistically now. What changes will the Maulvi brigade bring about that will improve the lives of common man ? Will they create more jobs, will they provide opportunites to learn non-Islamic subjects so that people can learn useful skills ?, will they improve the lot of women ?, will they ask the tribals to carry their own weight and pay taxes/electricity ? What will the maulvis provide in terms of vision and long-term planning ?

Will they actually provide something or will they just continue to demand things to happen magically after coming into power. So far they want Shariah.. what is that going to do for the naswaar eating brutes ?

It seems that the manifesto of the maulvis is anti US, anti secular, anti etc etc. and so far pro taliban, pro al qaeda, pro shariah....

where does the common man`s issues come into play ? Are they just leading the common man on ? When things get worse for the common man, the maulvis can always say its because of secularism, because of USA, because of minorities who can now vote, or the ahmedis which are conspiring against good muslims.

The Maulvis haven`t said anything useful or enlightening. One thing though.. they may be making the common man happier.. so that if the common man is sent to do jihad and die for the maulvis he will die happy thinking he`s going to heaven... with all the bullshit he`s been fed.

The maulvis are dangerous because even though they do not have immediate solutions to Pakistan`s common man problems (which no one has), they say they do and when their solution doesn`t work, they will point to enemies far and near: secularists, jews, ahmedis, USA, etc. and say they are cause of your troubles... KILL them.

Dangerous game.

Romair #89:

Excellent, heartfelt post. My respect for you has really gone up bhai (not that I didn`t respect you before.)

Dil se jo baat nikalti hai asar rakhti hai
Par nahin taaqat e parwaaz magar rakhti hai (Iqbal)

If all the `haves` of Pakistan were as sincere and honest as you our country would be a beacon of light! I really get the impression that a lot of the `air coniditioned classes` (Mohsin Hamid`s term!) detest the maulvis more than they do anyone else--whether it is the anti-Pakistani Indians, the Israelis or any of the other enemies of Pakistan. All they seem to care about is to be able to live their hedonistic lifestyles without any hindrance and bhaaR mein jaaye Pakistan!

Well, it is about time that the people who *really* care about Pakistan and Islam --the poor and the down-trodden--had their say.

Of course if the MMA do sweep to power in the near future you can bet your bottom dollar that all these rich Pakistanis will abandon the country and go off to live in the UK and the US in their flats in SW7 etc. This is what happened in Iran after the 1978 revolution and this is also what will happen in Pakistan.

In the long term--it will be for Pakistan`s benefit.

BTW the ulama are not as unwordly as many of you might believe. The only thing is they are principled. Now I am a Barelvi and have some serious differences of aqidah with, for example, Qazi Hussain Ahmad--but I would happily vote for him than for any of the secular candidates.
At least he sticks to his principles. Another example is of the late senator Allama Abdus Sittar Khan Niazi rahmatullah alayhi; even though he was sentenced to death in the 70s (or late 60s) for his part in the anti-Qadiani movement he refused to change his position; only when the government changed was his sentence revoked.

So don`t write off the maulvis! Give them a chance.
`al ulama warith ul anbiya` (hadith sharif)
`ulama anbiya e kiraam kay waris hain`
`olama waris e anbiya hastand`
The ulama are the heirs of the Prophets.

Romair #89:

Excellent, heartfelt post. My respect for you has really gone up bhai (not that I didn`t respect you before.)

Dil se jo baat nikalti hai asar rakhti hai
Par nahin taaqat e parwaaz magar rakhti hai (Iqbal)

If all the `haves` of Pakistan were as sincere and honest as you our country would be a beacon of light! I really get the impression that a lot of the `air coniditioned classes` (Mohsin Hamid`s term!) detest the maulvis more than they do anyone else--whether it is the anti-Pakistani Indians, the Israelis or any of the other enemies of Pakistan. All they seem to care about is to be able to live their hedonistic lifestyles without any hindrance and bhaaR mein jaaye Pakistan!

Well, it is about time that the people who *really* care about Pakistan and Islam --the poor and the down-trodden--had their say.

Of course if the MMA do sweep to power in the near future you can bet your bottom dollar that all these rich Pakistanis will abandon the country and go off to live in the UK and the US in their flats in SW7 etc. This is what happened in Iran after the 1978 revolution and this is also what will happen in Pakistan.

In the long term--it will be for Pakistan`s benefit.

BTW the ulama are not as unwordly as many of you might believe. The only thing is they are principled. Now I am a Barelvi and have some serious differences of aqidah with, for example, Qazi Hussain Ahmad--but I would happily vote for him than for any of the secular candidates.
At least he sticks to his principles. Another example is of the late senator Allama Abdus Sittar Khan Niazi rahmatullah alayhi; even though he was sentenced to death in the 70s (or late 60s) for his part in the anti-Qadiani movement he refused to change his position; only when the government changed was his sentence revoked.

So don`t write off the maulvis! Give them a chance.
`al ulama warith ul anbiya` (hadith sharif)
`ulama anbiya e kiraam kay waris hain`
`olama waris e anbiya hastand`
The ulama are the heirs of the Prophets.

sameer:

having said all that i wanted to in `Unraveling Pakistan` please forgive me for refraining from these interesting but pointlress (from my perch) discussions...

(after all is discussed and flogged to death Pakistan will remain an Occupied Territory...and nothing will really change..however well-intentionally we argue...our army has to be removed from the equation if there is ever to be any meanigful change in the lives of ordinary pakistanis)

regards

temporal

PS:

#89 by Romair:

am amused when you reiterate twice...rather innocently that ANP has accepted the results and are not claiming foul and why others commenting on the elections are claiming they were manipulated...

...am amused because am waiting for you to do a cartwheel twist and turnaround trick on top of the needle when imran and pti will soon claim that elections were indeed manipulated...

PPS:

..please forgive me for asking this...but why do you always REACT...why don`t you write an article here?...

..i wonder about this...not writing an article on chowk articulating your views...there are others who just `re-act` aplenty but never contribute an article....just off the top...sadna, jay, nasah, hamidm etc...

Here is some interesting info about the President of the MMA --Mawlana Shah Ahmad Noorani:

***
A brief sketch of the life of
His Eminence Maulana Shah Ahmad Noorani Siddiqui


Born in Meerut, India in the holy month of Ramadan and became a hafiz-ul-quran (memorized the entire Holy Quran) at the tender age of eight.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eminent son and Successor of His Eminence, The Late Maulana Shah Muhammad Abdul Aleem Siddiqui al-Qadiri Mubaligh-e-Azam RA. who was one of the greatest Islamic scholars of the 20th. century, Islamic Missionary of international repute and Head of Qadiriyya and Chistiyya Spiritual Orders.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Direct descendent to First Khalif of Islam Hazrat Sayeddena Abu Bakr Siddiqui (RA)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graduated from the National Arabic College, Meerut,lndia. Obtained the FAZIL-E-ARABI degree from Allahabad University and DARSE-E-NIZAM (FAZIL) from Darul-Uloom Arabia, Meerut.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaks over 12 languages including Arabic, English and French.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Accompanied His Late Father R.A on Islamic Missionary tours to various parts of the world in his early youth.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Started his full-fledged international missionary tours around the world soon after the birth of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previously held the post of Honorary Secretary General of the WORLD MUSLIM ULAMA ORGANIZATION for 12 years thus working for the cause of Islamic Unity. (whilst Mufti-e-Azam of Palestine was the President of this Organisation).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Founder of WORLD ISLAMIC MISSION at Dar-ul-Arkam in Makka al-Mukarrama in 1972


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President of INTERNATIONAL ISLAMIC MISSIONARIES GUILD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elected President of JAMIAT-E-ULEMA Pakistan (JUP) in 1972 in which he toured with a Government Delegation of Ulama (Islamic scholars) to visit Russia and China.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elected as a Member of Parliament from Karachi in 1970 and subsequently elected Leader of the Parliamentary Party of the JAMIAT ULAMA - PAKISTAN (JUP) unanimously.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elected as a Member of the Senate of Pakistan in 1973.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Presided over the International Islamic Conference held at Bradford, U.K., in April 1974 and subsequently elected the First President of the WORLD ISLAMIC MISSION.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re-elected Member of Parliament in March 1977.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a member of the Constitution Committee of the Parliament, His Eminence made more than 200 amendments and suggestions with a view to diverting the Constitution of 1972 towards democracy based on the principles of Islam.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His constant struggles resulted in the acceptance of Islam as the State religion of Pakistan.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was the first scholar and member of parliament to demand that the Constitution of Pakistan included the definition of a Muslim and fought for the Finality of Prophethood to be included in this definition


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His Eminence is an international figure of high repute having successfully brought his mission to various countries in Europe, Africa and South America including USA, Canada and the West Indies.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inspired Muslim scholars and leaders to establish branches of World Islamic Mission world-wide which has since built dozens of mosques and schools.


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President of the Mili Yakjeti Council in Pakistan and worked to unite the various religious parties of Pakistan into a single unified alternative political force.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lecturer and visiting professor at the University of Baghdad, Iraq.


***

Now how many of the secular candidates can boast such qualifications?!
This is just to show the lie to the accusation that maulvis are `jahil, uneducated fanatics`!!

Sameer: I personally I do not care much for Abbas Sardaraz`s performance as a Minister neither was I impressed with Umer Asghar Khans performance. But yeah Ahsan Iqbal I was impressed by his efforts.:)

jay #82

I have also been deeply amused by the hypocritical claims that religous parties had not previously gotten much support in Pakistan. ``President`` Zia-ul-Haq, whom Indians can think of as Bal Thackeray combined with Praveen Togadia and then finally re-born as a general, had in the 80`s steered Pakistan towards a hate-filled, kafir-obsessed islamist society (complete with vans for whipping, I recall).

In this environment what need is there for religous parties?? It is like saying that as people in Florida do not agitate for more sunshine, they must love the climate in Seattle. Or as Indians do not agitate in favor of spicy food, they must love bland food. It is a nonsensical argument ! In a constitutionally bigoted and religously sectarian state, what need for parties espousing bigotry and sectarianism?

But now post-9/11, the foundations of the Zia state have come under some pressure. The afghan adventure is completely over, the Kashmir adventure has been shown the yellow light. The current general has even removed separate electorates for the miserable minorities ! And guess who is getting a lot of votes !!

I guess the people who are surprised are either ignorant or were so taken with their fairy tales that they lost touch with reality.

I can never figure out how people can support democracy on the one hand, and then come up with conspiracy theories on the other, when parties they oppose end up winning the vote. It is quite pathetic to see such people paint themselves as democrats.

If PML(Q) had unexpectedly won all the seats, one could have an argument that Musharraf had rigged the votes. Why in the world would he want the MMA to win? And win so big. Just two weeks ago, everyone was calling him Busharraf, and hailing his anti-maulvi stance. Now he is considered in the maulvi camp, according to the writer of this article, even though he has been putting there workers and leaders in jail, left and right, without due process. If he were going to rig it, he would have rigged it in the direction of Q, ANP and MQM - three parties that have strongly supported him. All three of these parties ended up losing seats to the MMA.

There are two parties that have been heavily effected by the rise of the MMA. First is the ANP. It has been wiped out completely in NWFP, a province it used to own. Zero seats. However, the ANP have said the elections were fair, and have congratulated the MMA. If the party who lost the election to the MMA is willing to accept the result, then how can others not accept it. The other effected party is PTI (the party I support), since it could have filled the obvious vacuum that has been filled by MMA. PTI, so far hasn`t given a statement.

One of the reasons the MMA has won is exactly due to the attitude shown by many, ``upper-class`` interactors here, i.e. poor, unshaven, unbathed Pakistanis living in lower-middle class areas have no right to voice their votes. If they do voice their votes, then it must be a conspiracy. When Musharraf was rounding up all the religious party folks and putting them in jail, I had stated that it is illegal to put people in jail without due process. Yet many of the upper-middle class crowd on this site never made a single noise at the lack of due process. Perhaps Pakistanis with beards deserve no due process.

It is quite easy to see why the MMA has won, so big. People have given the Army a chance, it didn`t work. People have given the feudal ``liberal`` (they are liberal only in Lahore, and Islamabad, by the way, not in their feudal lands) parties a chance, but they screwed up the country big time. Now they have decided to give the maulvis a chance.

We, living in San Jose and Defence, do not like the maulvis because they stop our Junoon concerts and make the girls in Citibank wear long sleeve shirts, and speak out against the USA thereby restricting our visas. These are valid cocerns. I am effected by the directly also. That is why, we in large urban upper class areas (including me and my family) have not voted for them. That is our right. But that is also the boundary of our rights

The maulvi brigade does have an appeal to the naswar-eating, unshaven, unbathed labourer who lives in a village in Bannu. His whole month`s salary could not afford a Junoon concert ticket. He has never even been in an airplane, much less applied for a US visa. And the girls at Citibank laugh at him, disgustingly holding their noses when they pass by him. And he is already very conservative. Do you really think, it matters to him whether people living in Defence Society in Lahore or Karachi can party or not, under the mullah? He is tired of voting for people who don`t even live in Bannu (they live in Islamabad and London) and just come to Bannu during elections. So, he has voted for the maulvi candidate, who are mostly middle to lower middle class, and actually live in the areas they are contesting from, in the hope that they will at least put more food on his plate and kick the Americans out (whom he does not like in his land).

All of the above is due to the pathetic political performance of the feudal, provincial, Army (though not this time around) and ethnic parties. The guy living in the Bannu village has given these parties plenty of chances, yet they have screwed up his life, more and more.

I am now in two minds over who is more narrow-minded in their approach towards Pakistan, the maulvi brigade or the anti-maulvi brigade. I have criticised both of them on this site. I don`t consider myself part of the maulvi brigade, at all. But interestingly, the maulvi brigade (Naqshbandi/Urstruly F-Kush etc.) have been far more polite in accepting the criticism, then they anti-maulvli brigade. The maulvi brigade on this site is always on the defensive while the anti-maulvi brigade is usually on the offensive.

The anti-maulvi brigade seems to feel it has a right to define the direction of Pakistan, and if the naswar-eating fellow in Bannu doesn`t like it, he can f//ck off. He should just be rounded up by the govt. and be put in jail, according to them. Well, now Gul Khan in Bannu and Baluchistan has spoken up and he has told the anti-maulvi brigade to f//ck off. If he doesn`t get more food on his plate and running water in his village, he is not going to let the anti-maulvi brigade attend Junoon concerts and wear designer clothes either. Nor will he let them send their kids to America. The PPP and PML parties have already put him in conditions that are similar to the seventh century, why not have a leadership from that era also. Maybe, they will, at least, provide his family with more food.

MMA has won big in NWFP only, and since the party that has lost to them there (ANP) has accepted the result, everyone else should accept the victory of the MMA, instead of demeaning it. After all, democracy is supposed to mean tolerating the views of people one disagrees with and accepting their votes. The people coming up with conspiracy theories unfortunately have no respect for tolerating others` views, and will always be a hinderance to Pakistan`s democracy. The maulvi brigade will keep winning as long as the PPPs and PML feudals of Pakistan are not kicked out or reformed (as well as the conspiracy theorists). That is why I am such a big critic of feudalism and of conspiracy theorists. They will always find some way or some theory to sideline the poor common man.

I think all of us should accept the results as a step towards democracy. And have faith in the common man of Pakistan and his right to vote. All of us on this website, have nothing in common with the average Pakistani`s lifestyle. Many of us don`t even live in Pakistan. Once Gul Khan is free of feudalism (and of the Generals and the conspiracy theorists and corruption, and perhaps of us the upper-middle English speaking class also), I don`t think he will let Pakistan go down the drain. After all, he wants a study visa to the US, he wants to date the girls at Citibank and he wants to have enough money to attend Junoon concerts also.

The maulvi brigade is not completely in power. It will water down its agenda. I am sure of it. In the end I think it may cause ten problems for upper-middle class Pakistanis with US visas, but solve twenty for the naswar-eating stinky ditch-digger in the village. Its about time, someone solved his problems also.

Baluchistan and NWFP are now finally under the control of the middle and lower-middle class (albeit of the bearded variety, with hypocrite maulvi leaders from the upper-middle class). The landed artistorcracy of this area would never have introduced land reforms for the poor. If the maulvi brigade ends up introducing massive land reforms in these areas, then I will more than happily agree to wear a beard, if they ask me to (provided it does not have to be really long like Qazi Hussein`s. I assume they have no problem with gottees, french cut beards, or the one that Brad Pitt seems to be supporting).

Ras and Semipreciousme: I got lucky to have this article published in less than 24 hours of its submission. However, I did write it will confidence of whatever little insight I had. I really wanted chowk followers to know and discuss ahead of any other source. I knew too well that many columnists in Dawn, News, Nation and Daily Times will be writing same stuff, although with better composition qualities. Whether it means anything for chowk and chowk readers but the fact is that this time chowk is ahead of the rest of media in presenting and discussiing an important development.
While people following standard Pakistani media are waking up to the reality, chowk has been at it within hours of trends of unofficial results. In this sense, the contents of this article to be 100 percent correct predictions, becomes less important.

``the goals of ALL the Islamic groups are the same whether Wahabi, Deobandi or Barelvi: the implementation of Shariah in toto in Pakistan and the Nizam e Mustafa (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam). ``

If any Pakistanis who like their drink want to apply for political asylum in India once Naqsbandi and his people come to power, I`d be happy to support your applications. :)

Inspite of all you may have heard, we do like Pakis who party.

…sameersaab, reading your article a couple of days back, i thought it was kooky…at best, a shot in the dark…but believe it or not, many people at work today were saying the same exact thing as you…opinion was divided whether musharraf was a cunning b@stard or just shooting himself in the foot….guess i don’t have to ask where you stand…:)

SWAYING IN THE WIND

Only a week ago the jihadic parties were the worst, every one ranging from romair to tahmed were so proud that they won only 3 seats. It all has changed, to romair the jihadists are seasoned politicians, they believe in democracy, now they have become respectable. This is the kind of intelectual honesty that these pak analysts have got.

Now suddenly from sameer to romair are declaring that the next election will be swept by the jihadists. Hello, take time out and accept that the 60 percent that did not vote earlier were the jihadists. At last the children of TNt have come of agae. The 200,000 madrsas have delivered the goods.

For oce accept the beauty of TNT, the political operationalisation of the islamic kernal of kafir. Combine it with the bomb and the military to perfect the another central theme, the jihad.

The fools of delhi are still talking about talks, jihad is centrl to any islamic country and all that india should talk about is a cost effective way to send the jihadists to heaven. For the first time the truth is staring at the fools of delhi, the issue is not kashmir, it is managing a jihadic fromtier.

im glad the religuous parties won too !!!!!!1 why cuz its better than stooges like musharafff

Sameer,
Very good analysis here, especially due to the early posting of this article. Although one cannot judge at this point where things are
headed, it appears that the ``Kings Party`` needs to make a choice between the religious right wing or the PPP to form a government come November 1.

Ras Siddiqui

Re Hamidm2 # 60
``........... how do i officially convert to hindooism?..........and i am not setting a foot in filthy ganga, or putting that silly red paint on my forehead ........ ``
Welcome back to the fold brother Hamidm. Don`t worry about swimming in filthy rivers, we can arrange the ceremony at Hyatt or would you prefer the Hilton?
Restoring the circumcision might be painful though......in the mean time got to organise the Jersey cow for the gomu.......

Dost Mittar,
Though a Musharraf supporter, I must take exception to your comment at being `happy` that the MMA won anything ! I wouldn`t want to give them anything more than 5 seats - that too under duress..
AK

karakoram

NO! I am not a closet-Wahabi. In fact i dislike them a lot for aspects of their aqeedah! I am a Sunni (Barelvi) and also affiliated to a Sufi tariqah.
But the MMA is NOT all just pro-Taliban parties. It is not such a black and white issue of pro and anti Taliban. The main reason I am happy that the MMA won so mnay seats is that Mawla