Myopic, Malevolent, Megalomaniac

Romair (89):
Good post.
Lets talk realistically now. What changes will the Maulvi brigade bring about that will improve the lives of common man ? Will they create more jobs, will they provide opportunites to learn non-Islamic subjects so that people can learn useful skills ?, will they improve the lot of women ?, will they ask the tribals to carry their own weight and pay taxes/electricity ? What will the maulvis provide in terms of vision and long-term planning ?

Will they actually provide something or will they just continue to demand things to happen magically after coming into power. So far they want Shariah.. what is that going to do for the naswaar eating brutes ?

It seems that the manifesto of the maulvis is anti US, anti secular, anti etc etc. and so far pro taliban, pro al qaeda, pro shariah....

where does the common man`s issues come into play ? Are they just leading the common man on ? When things get worse for the common man, the maulvis can always say its because of secularism, because of USA, because of minorities who can now vote, or the ahmedis which are conspiring against good muslims.

The Maulvis haven`t said anything useful or enlightening. One thing though.. they may be making the common man happier.. so that if the common man is sent to do jihad and die for the maulvis he will die happy thinking he`s going to heaven... with all the bullshit he`s been fed.

The maulvis are dangerous because even though they do not have immediate solutions to Pakistan`s common man problems (which no one has), they say they do and when their solution doesn`t work, they will point to enemies far and near: secularists, jews, ahmedis, USA, etc. and say they are cause of your troubles... KILL them.

Dangerous game.

Romair #89:

Excellent, heartfelt post. My respect for you has really gone up bhai (not that I didn`t respect you before.)

Dil se jo baat nikalti hai asar rakhti hai
Par nahin taaqat e parwaaz magar rakhti hai (Iqbal)

If all the `haves` of Pakistan were as sincere and honest as you our country would be a beacon of light! I really get the impression that a lot of the `air coniditioned classes` (Mohsin Hamid`s term!) detest the maulvis more than they do anyone else--whether it is the anti-Pakistani Indians, the Israelis or any of the other enemies of Pakistan. All they seem to care about is to be able to live their hedonistic lifestyles without any hindrance and bhaaR mein jaaye Pakistan!

Well, it is about time that the people who *really* care about Pakistan and Islam --the poor and the down-trodden--had their say.

Of course if the MMA do sweep to power in the near future you can bet your bottom dollar that all these rich Pakistanis will abandon the country and go off to live in the UK and the US in their flats in SW7 etc. This is what happened in Iran after the 1978 revolution and this is also what will happen in Pakistan.

In the long term--it will be for Pakistan`s benefit.

BTW the ulama are not as unwordly as many of you might believe. The only thing is they are principled. Now I am a Barelvi and have some serious differences of aqidah with, for example, Qazi Hussain Ahmad--but I would happily vote for him than for any of the secular candidates.
At least he sticks to his principles. Another example is of the late senator Allama Abdus Sittar Khan Niazi rahmatullah alayhi; even though he was sentenced to death in the 70s (or late 60s) for his part in the anti-Qadiani movement he refused to change his position; only when the government changed was his sentence revoked.

So don`t write off the maulvis! Give them a chance.
`al ulama warith ul anbiya` (hadith sharif)
`ulama anbiya e kiraam kay waris hain`
`olama waris e anbiya hastand`
The ulama are the heirs of the Prophets.

Romair #89:

Excellent, heartfelt post. My respect for you has really gone up bhai (not that I didn`t respect you before.)

Dil se jo baat nikalti hai asar rakhti hai
Par nahin taaqat e parwaaz magar rakhti hai (Iqbal)

If all the `haves` of Pakistan were as sincere and honest as you our country would be a beacon of light! I really get the impression that a lot of the `air coniditioned classes` (Mohsin Hamid`s term!) detest the maulvis more than they do anyone else--whether it is the anti-Pakistani Indians, the Israelis or any of the other enemies of Pakistan. All they seem to care about is to be able to live their hedonistic lifestyles without any hindrance and bhaaR mein jaaye Pakistan!

Well, it is about time that the people who *really* care about Pakistan and Islam --the poor and the down-trodden--had their say.

Of course if the MMA do sweep to power in the near future you can bet your bottom dollar that all these rich Pakistanis will abandon the country and go off to live in the UK and the US in their flats in SW7 etc. This is what happened in Iran after the 1978 revolution and this is also what will happen in Pakistan.

In the long term--it will be for Pakistan`s benefit.

BTW the ulama are not as unwordly as many of you might believe. The only thing is they are principled. Now I am a Barelvi and have some serious differences of aqidah with, for example, Qazi Hussain Ahmad--but I would happily vote for him than for any of the secular candidates.
At least he sticks to his principles. Another example is of the late senator Allama Abdus Sittar Khan Niazi rahmatullah alayhi; even though he was sentenced to death in the 70s (or late 60s) for his part in the anti-Qadiani movement he refused to change his position; only when the government changed was his sentence revoked.

So don`t write off the maulvis! Give them a chance.
`al ulama warith ul anbiya` (hadith sharif)
`ulama anbiya e kiraam kay waris hain`
`olama waris e anbiya hastand`
The ulama are the heirs of the Prophets.

sameer:

having said all that i wanted to in `Unraveling Pakistan` please forgive me for refraining from these interesting but pointlress (from my perch) discussions...

(after all is discussed and flogged to death Pakistan will remain an Occupied Territory...and nothing will really change..however well-intentionally we argue...our army has to be removed from the equation if there is ever to be any meanigful change in the lives of ordinary pakistanis)

regards

temporal

PS:

#89 by Romair:

am amused when you reiterate twice...rather innocently that ANP has accepted the results and are not claiming foul and why others commenting on the elections are claiming they were manipulated...

...am amused because am waiting for you to do a cartwheel twist and turnaround trick on top of the needle when imran and pti will soon claim that elections were indeed manipulated...

PPS:

..please forgive me for asking this...but why do you always REACT...why don`t you write an article here?...

..i wonder about this...not writing an article on chowk articulating your views...there are others who just `re-act` aplenty but never contribute an article....just off the top...sadna, jay, nasah, hamidm etc...

Here is some interesting info about the President of the MMA --Mawlana Shah Ahmad Noorani:

***
A brief sketch of the life of
His Eminence Maulana Shah Ahmad Noorani Siddiqui


Born in Meerut, India in the holy month of Ramadan and became a hafiz-ul-quran (memorized the entire Holy Quran) at the tender age of eight.


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Eminent son and Successor of His Eminence, The Late Maulana Shah Muhammad Abdul Aleem Siddiqui al-Qadiri Mubaligh-e-Azam RA. who was one of the greatest Islamic scholars of the 20th. century, Islamic Missionary of international repute and Head of Qadiriyya and Chistiyya Spiritual Orders.


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Direct descendent to First Khalif of Islam Hazrat Sayeddena Abu Bakr Siddiqui (RA)


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Graduated from the National Arabic College, Meerut,lndia. Obtained the FAZIL-E-ARABI degree from Allahabad University and DARSE-E-NIZAM (FAZIL) from Darul-Uloom Arabia, Meerut.


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Speaks over 12 languages including Arabic, English and French.


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Accompanied His Late Father R.A on Islamic Missionary tours to various parts of the world in his early youth.


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Started his full-fledged international missionary tours around the world soon after the birth of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.


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Previously held the post of Honorary Secretary General of the WORLD MUSLIM ULAMA ORGANIZATION for 12 years thus working for the cause of Islamic Unity. (whilst Mufti-e-Azam of Palestine was the President of this Organisation).

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Founder of WORLD ISLAMIC MISSION at Dar-ul-Arkam in Makka al-Mukarrama in 1972


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President of INTERNATIONAL ISLAMIC MISSIONARIES GUILD


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Elected President of JAMIAT-E-ULEMA Pakistan (JUP) in 1972 in which he toured with a Government Delegation of Ulama (Islamic scholars) to visit Russia and China.


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Elected as a Member of Parliament from Karachi in 1970 and subsequently elected Leader of the Parliamentary Party of the JAMIAT ULAMA - PAKISTAN (JUP) unanimously.


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Elected as a Member of the Senate of Pakistan in 1973.


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Presided over the International Islamic Conference held at Bradford, U.K., in April 1974 and subsequently elected the First President of the WORLD ISLAMIC MISSION.


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Re-elected Member of Parliament in March 1977.


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As a member of the Constitution Committee of the Parliament, His Eminence made more than 200 amendments and suggestions with a view to diverting the Constitution of 1972 towards democracy based on the principles of Islam.


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His constant struggles resulted in the acceptance of Islam as the State religion of Pakistan.


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He was the first scholar and member of parliament to demand that the Constitution of Pakistan included the definition of a Muslim and fought for the Finality of Prophethood to be included in this definition


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His Eminence is an international figure of high repute having successfully brought his mission to various countries in Europe, Africa and South America including USA, Canada and the West Indies.


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Inspired Muslim scholars and leaders to establish branches of World Islamic Mission world-wide which has since built dozens of mosques and schools.


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President of the Mili Yakjeti Council in Pakistan and worked to unite the various religious parties of Pakistan into a single unified alternative political force.


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Lecturer and visiting professor at the University of Baghdad, Iraq.


***

Now how many of the secular candidates can boast such qualifications?!
This is just to show the lie to the accusation that maulvis are `jahil, uneducated fanatics`!!

Sameer: I personally I do not care much for Abbas Sardaraz`s performance as a Minister neither was I impressed with Umer Asghar Khans performance. But yeah Ahsan Iqbal I was impressed by his efforts.:)

jay #82

I have also been deeply amused by the hypocritical claims that religous parties had not previously gotten much support in Pakistan. ``President`` Zia-ul-Haq, whom Indians can think of as Bal Thackeray combined with Praveen Togadia and then finally re-born as a general, had in the 80`s steered Pakistan towards a hate-filled, kafir-obsessed islamist society (complete with vans for whipping, I recall).

In this environment what need is there for religous parties?? It is like saying that as people in Florida do not agitate for more sunshine, they must love the climate in Seattle. Or as Indians do not agitate in favor of spicy food, they must love bland food. It is a nonsensical argument ! In a constitutionally bigoted and religously sectarian state, what need for parties espousing bigotry and sectarianism?

But now post-9/11, the foundations of the Zia state have come under some pressure. The afghan adventure is completely over, the Kashmir adventure has been shown the yellow light. The current general has even removed separate electorates for the miserable minorities ! And guess who is getting a lot of votes !!

I guess the people who are surprised are either ignorant or were so taken with their fairy tales that they lost touch with reality.

I can never figure out how people can support democracy on the one hand, and then come up with conspiracy theories on the other, when parties they oppose end up winning the vote. It is quite pathetic to see such people paint themselves as democrats.

If PML(Q) had unexpectedly won all the seats, one could have an argument that Musharraf had rigged the votes. Why in the world would he want the MMA to win? And win so big. Just two weeks ago, everyone was calling him Busharraf, and hailing his anti-maulvi stance. Now he is considered in the maulvi camp, according to the writer of this article, even though he has been putting there workers and leaders in jail, left and right, without due process. If he were going to rig it, he would have rigged it in the direction of Q, ANP and MQM - three parties that have strongly supported him. All three of these parties ended up losing seats to the MMA.

There are two parties that have been heavily effected by the rise of the MMA. First is the ANP. It has been wiped out completely in NWFP, a province it used to own. Zero seats. However, the ANP have said the elections were fair, and have congratulated the MMA. If the party who lost the election to the MMA is willing to accept the result, then how can others not accept it. The other effected party is PTI (the party I support), since it could have filled the obvious vacuum that has been filled by MMA. PTI, so far hasn`t given a statement.

One of the reasons the MMA has won is exactly due to the attitude shown by many, ``upper-class`` interactors here, i.e. poor, unshaven, unbathed Pakistanis living in lower-middle class areas have no right to voice their votes. If they do voice their votes, then it must be a conspiracy. When Musharraf was rounding up all the religious party folks and putting them in jail, I had stated that it is illegal to put people in jail without due process. Yet many of the upper-middle class crowd on this site never made a single noise at the lack of due process. Perhaps Pakistanis with beards deserve no due process.

It is quite easy to see why the MMA has won, so big. People have given the Army a chance, it didn`t work. People have given the feudal ``liberal`` (they are liberal only in Lahore, and Islamabad, by the way, not in their feudal lands) parties a chance, but they screwed up the country big time. Now they have decided to give the maulvis a chance.

We, living in San Jose and Defence, do not like the maulvis because they stop our Junoon concerts and make the girls in Citibank wear long sleeve shirts, and speak out against the USA thereby restricting our visas. These are valid cocerns. I am effected by the directly also. That is why, we in large urban upper class areas (including me and my family) have not voted for them. That is our right. But that is also the boundary of our rights

The maulvi brigade does have an appeal to the naswar-eating, unshaven, unbathed labourer who lives in a village in Bannu. His whole month`s salary could not afford a Junoon concert ticket. He has never even been in an airplane, much less applied for a US visa. And the girls at Citibank laugh at him, disgustingly holding their noses when they pass by him. And he is already very conservative. Do you really think, it matters to him whether people living in Defence Society in Lahore or Karachi can party or not, under the mullah? He is tired of voting for people who don`t even live in Bannu (they live in Islamabad and London) and just come to Bannu during elections. So, he has voted for the maulvi candidate, who are mostly middle to lower middle class, and actually live in the areas they are contesting from, in the hope that they will at least put more food on his plate and kick the Americans out (whom he does not like in his land).

All of the above is due to the pathetic political performance of the feudal, provincial, Army (though not this time around) and ethnic parties. The guy living in the Bannu village has given these parties plenty of chances, yet they have screwed up his life, more and more.

I am now in two minds over who is more narrow-minded in their approach towards Pakistan, the maulvi brigade or the anti-maulvi brigade. I have criticised both of them on this site. I don`t consider myself part of the maulvi brigade, at all. But interestingly, the maulvi brigade (Naqshbandi/Urstruly F-Kush etc.) have been far more polite in accepting the criticism, then they anti-maulvli brigade. The maulvi brigade on this site is always on the defensive while the anti-maulvi brigade is usually on the offensive.

The anti-maulvi brigade seems to feel it has a right to define the direction of Pakistan, and if the naswar-eating fellow in Bannu doesn`t like it, he can f//ck off. He should just be rounded up by the govt. and be put in jail, according to them. Well, now Gul Khan in Bannu and Baluchistan has spoken up and he has told the anti-maulvi brigade to f//ck off. If he doesn`t get more food on his plate and running water in his village, he is not going to let the anti-maulvi brigade attend Junoon concerts and wear designer clothes either. Nor will he let them send their kids to America. The PPP and PML parties have already put him in conditions that are similar to the seventh century, why not have a leadership from that era also. Maybe, they will, at least, provide his family with more food.

MMA has won big in NWFP only, and since the party that has lost to them there (ANP) has accepted the result, everyone else should accept the victory of the MMA, instead of demeaning it. After all, democracy is supposed to mean tolerating the views of people one disagrees with and accepting their votes. The people coming up with conspiracy theories unfortunately have no respect for tolerating others` views, and will always be a hinderance to Pakistan`s democracy. The maulvi brigade will keep winning as long as the PPPs and PML feudals of Pakistan are not kicked out or reformed (as well as the conspiracy theorists). That is why I am such a big critic of feudalism and of conspiracy theorists. They will always find some way or some theory to sideline the poor common man.

I think all of us should accept the results as a step towards democracy. And have faith in the common man of Pakistan and his right to vote. All of us on this website, have nothing in common with the average Pakistani`s lifestyle. Many of us don`t even live in Pakistan. Once Gul Khan is free of feudalism (and of the Generals and the conspiracy theorists and corruption, and perhaps of us the upper-middle English speaking class also), I don`t think he will let Pakistan go down the drain. After all, he wants a study visa to the US, he wants to date the girls at Citibank and he wants to have enough money to attend Junoon concerts also.

The maulvi brigade is not completely in power. It will water down its agenda. I am sure of it. In the end I think it may cause ten problems for upper-middle class Pakistanis with US visas, but solve twenty for the naswar-eating stinky ditch-digger in the village. Its about time, someone solved his problems also.

Baluchistan and NWFP are now finally under the control of the middle and lower-middle class (albeit of the bearded variety, with hypocrite maulvi leaders from the upper-middle class). The landed artistorcracy of this area would never have introduced land reforms for the poor. If the maulvi brigade ends up introducing massive land reforms in these areas, then I will more than happily agree to wear a beard, if they ask me to (provided it does not have to be really long like Qazi Hussein`s. I assume they have no problem with gottees, french cut beards, or the one that Brad Pitt seems to be supporting).

Ras and Semipreciousme: I got lucky to have this article published in less than 24 hours of its submission. However, I did write it will confidence of whatever little insight I had. I really wanted chowk followers to know and discuss ahead of any other source. I knew too well that many columnists in Dawn, News, Nation and Daily Times will be writing same stuff, although with better composition qualities. Whether it means anything for chowk and chowk readers but the fact is that this time chowk is ahead of the rest of media in presenting and discussiing an important development.
While people following standard Pakistani media are waking up to the reality, chowk has been at it within hours of trends of unofficial results. In this sense, the contents of this article to be 100 percent correct predictions, becomes less important.

``the goals of ALL the Islamic groups are the same whether Wahabi, Deobandi or Barelvi: the implementation of Shariah in toto in Pakistan and the Nizam e Mustafa (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam). ``

If any Pakistanis who like their drink want to apply for political asylum in India once Naqsbandi and his people come to power, I`d be happy to support your applications. :)

Inspite of all you may have heard, we do like Pakis who party.

…sameersaab, reading your article a couple of days back, i thought it was kooky…at best, a shot in the dark…but believe it or not, many people at work today were saying the same exact thing as you…opinion was divided whether musharraf was a cunning b@stard or just shooting himself in the foot….guess i don’t have to ask where you stand…:)

SWAYING IN THE WIND

Only a week ago the jihadic parties were the worst, every one ranging from romair to tahmed were so proud that they won only 3 seats. It all has changed, to romair the jihadists are seasoned politicians, they believe in democracy, now they have become respectable. This is the kind of intelectual honesty that these pak analysts have got.

Now suddenly from sameer to romair are declaring that the next election will be swept by the jihadists. Hello, take time out and accept that the 60 percent that did not vote earlier were the jihadists. At last the children of TNt have come of agae. The 200,000 madrsas have delivered the goods.

For oce accept the beauty of TNT, the political operationalisation of the islamic kernal of kafir. Combine it with the bomb and the military to perfect the another central theme, the jihad.

The fools of delhi are still talking about talks, jihad is centrl to any islamic country and all that india should talk about is a cost effective way to send the jihadists to heaven. For the first time the truth is staring at the fools of delhi, the issue is not kashmir, it is managing a jihadic fromtier.

im glad the religuous parties won too !!!!!!1 why cuz its better than stooges like musharafff

Sameer,
Very good analysis here, especially due to the early posting of this article. Although one cannot judge at this point where things are
headed, it appears that the ``Kings Party`` needs to make a choice between the religious right wing or the PPP to form a government come November 1.

Ras Siddiqui

Re Hamidm2 # 60
``........... how do i officially convert to hindooism?..........and i am not setting a foot in filthy ganga, or putting that silly red paint on my forehead ........ ``
Welcome back to the fold brother Hamidm. Don`t worry about swimming in filthy rivers, we can arrange the ceremony at Hyatt or would you prefer the Hilton?
Restoring the circumcision might be painful though......in the mean time got to organise the Jersey cow for the gomu.......

Dost Mittar,
Though a Musharraf supporter, I must take exception to your comment at being `happy` that the MMA won anything ! I wouldn`t want to give them anything more than 5 seats - that too under duress..
AK