Myopic, Malevolent, Megalomaniac

jay #82

I have also been deeply amused by the hypocritical claims that religous parties had not previously gotten much support in Pakistan. ``President`` Zia-ul-Haq, whom Indians can think of as Bal Thackeray combined with Praveen Togadia and then finally re-born as a general, had in the 80`s steered Pakistan towards a hate-filled, kafir-obsessed islamist society (complete with vans for whipping, I recall).

In this environment what need is there for religous parties?? It is like saying that as people in Florida do not agitate for more sunshine, they must love the climate in Seattle. Or as Indians do not agitate in favor of spicy food, they must love bland food. It is a nonsensical argument ! In a constitutionally bigoted and religously sectarian state, what need for parties espousing bigotry and sectarianism?

But now post-9/11, the foundations of the Zia state have come under some pressure. The afghan adventure is completely over, the Kashmir adventure has been shown the yellow light. The current general has even removed separate electorates for the miserable minorities ! And guess who is getting a lot of votes !!

I guess the people who are surprised are either ignorant or were so taken with their fairy tales that they lost touch with reality.

Sameer: I personally I do not care much for Abbas Sardaraz`s performance as a Minister neither was I impressed with Umer Asghar Khans performance. But yeah Ahsan Iqbal I was impressed by his efforts.:)

Here is some interesting info about the President of the MMA --Mawlana Shah Ahmad Noorani:

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A brief sketch of the life of
His Eminence Maulana Shah Ahmad Noorani Siddiqui


Born in Meerut, India in the holy month of Ramadan and became a hafiz-ul-quran (memorized the entire Holy Quran) at the tender age of eight.


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Eminent son and Successor of His Eminence, The Late Maulana Shah Muhammad Abdul Aleem Siddiqui al-Qadiri Mubaligh-e-Azam RA. who was one of the greatest Islamic scholars of the 20th. century, Islamic Missionary of international repute and Head of Qadiriyya and Chistiyya Spiritual Orders.


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Direct descendent to First Khalif of Islam Hazrat Sayeddena Abu Bakr Siddiqui (RA)


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Graduated from the National Arabic College, Meerut,lndia. Obtained the FAZIL-E-ARABI degree from Allahabad University and DARSE-E-NIZAM (FAZIL) from Darul-Uloom Arabia, Meerut.


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Speaks over 12 languages including Arabic, English and French.


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Accompanied His Late Father R.A on Islamic Missionary tours to various parts of the world in his early youth.


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Started his full-fledged international missionary tours around the world soon after the birth of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.


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Previously held the post of Honorary Secretary General of the WORLD MUSLIM ULAMA ORGANIZATION for 12 years thus working for the cause of Islamic Unity. (whilst Mufti-e-Azam of Palestine was the President of this Organisation).

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Founder of WORLD ISLAMIC MISSION at Dar-ul-Arkam in Makka al-Mukarrama in 1972


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President of INTERNATIONAL ISLAMIC MISSIONARIES GUILD


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Elected President of JAMIAT-E-ULEMA Pakistan (JUP) in 1972 in which he toured with a Government Delegation of Ulama (Islamic scholars) to visit Russia and China.


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Elected as a Member of Parliament from Karachi in 1970 and subsequently elected Leader of the Parliamentary Party of the JAMIAT ULAMA - PAKISTAN (JUP) unanimously.


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Elected as a Member of the Senate of Pakistan in 1973.


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Presided over the International Islamic Conference held at Bradford, U.K., in April 1974 and subsequently elected the First President of the WORLD ISLAMIC MISSION.


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Re-elected Member of Parliament in March 1977.


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As a member of the Constitution Committee of the Parliament, His Eminence made more than 200 amendments and suggestions with a view to diverting the Constitution of 1972 towards democracy based on the principles of Islam.


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His constant struggles resulted in the acceptance of Islam as the State religion of Pakistan.


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He was the first scholar and member of parliament to demand that the Constitution of Pakistan included the definition of a Muslim and fought for the Finality of Prophethood to be included in this definition


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His Eminence is an international figure of high repute having successfully brought his mission to various countries in Europe, Africa and South America including USA, Canada and the West Indies.


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Inspired Muslim scholars and leaders to establish branches of World Islamic Mission world-wide which has since built dozens of mosques and schools.


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President of the Mili Yakjeti Council in Pakistan and worked to unite the various religious parties of Pakistan into a single unified alternative political force.


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Lecturer and visiting professor at the University of Baghdad, Iraq.


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Now how many of the secular candidates can boast such qualifications?!
This is just to show the lie to the accusation that maulvis are `jahil, uneducated fanatics`!!

sameer:

having said all that i wanted to in `Unraveling Pakistan` please forgive me for refraining from these interesting but pointlress (from my perch) discussions...

(after all is discussed and flogged to death Pakistan will remain an Occupied Territory...and nothing will really change..however well-intentionally we argue...our army has to be removed from the equation if there is ever to be any meanigful change in the lives of ordinary pakistanis)

regards

temporal

PS:

#89 by Romair:

am amused when you reiterate twice...rather innocently that ANP has accepted the results and are not claiming foul and why others commenting on the elections are claiming they were manipulated...

...am amused because am waiting for you to do a cartwheel twist and turnaround trick on top of the needle when imran and pti will soon claim that elections were indeed manipulated...

PPS:

..please forgive me for asking this...but why do you always REACT...why don`t you write an article here?...

..i wonder about this...not writing an article on chowk articulating your views...there are others who just `re-act` aplenty but never contribute an article....just off the top...sadna, jay, nasah, hamidm etc...

Romair #89:

Excellent, heartfelt post. My respect for you has really gone up bhai (not that I didn`t respect you before.)

Dil se jo baat nikalti hai asar rakhti hai
Par nahin taaqat e parwaaz magar rakhti hai (Iqbal)

If all the `haves` of Pakistan were as sincere and honest as you our country would be a beacon of light! I really get the impression that a lot of the `air coniditioned classes` (Mohsin Hamid`s term!) detest the maulvis more than they do anyone else--whether it is the anti-Pakistani Indians, the Israelis or any of the other enemies of Pakistan. All they seem to care about is to be able to live their hedonistic lifestyles without any hindrance and bhaaR mein jaaye Pakistan!

Well, it is about time that the people who *really* care about Pakistan and Islam --the poor and the down-trodden--had their say.

Of course if the MMA do sweep to power in the near future you can bet your bottom dollar that all these rich Pakistanis will abandon the country and go off to live in the UK and the US in their flats in SW7 etc. This is what happened in Iran after the 1978 revolution and this is also what will happen in Pakistan.

In the long term--it will be for Pakistan`s benefit.

BTW the ulama are not as unwordly as many of you might believe. The only thing is they are principled. Now I am a Barelvi and have some serious differences of aqidah with, for example, Qazi Hussain Ahmad--but I would happily vote for him than for any of the secular candidates.
At least he sticks to his principles. Another example is of the late senator Allama Abdus Sittar Khan Niazi rahmatullah alayhi; even though he was sentenced to death in the 70s (or late 60s) for his part in the anti-Qadiani movement he refused to change his position; only when the government changed was his sentence revoked.

So don`t write off the maulvis! Give them a chance.
`al ulama warith ul anbiya` (hadith sharif)
`ulama anbiya e kiraam kay waris hain`
`olama waris e anbiya hastand`
The ulama are the heirs of the Prophets.

Romair #89:

Excellent, heartfelt post. My respect for you has really gone up bhai (not that I didn`t respect you before.)

Dil se jo baat nikalti hai asar rakhti hai
Par nahin taaqat e parwaaz magar rakhti hai (Iqbal)

If all the `haves` of Pakistan were as sincere and honest as you our country would be a beacon of light! I really get the impression that a lot of the `air coniditioned classes` (Mohsin Hamid`s term!) detest the maulvis more than they do anyone else--whether it is the anti-Pakistani Indians, the Israelis or any of the other enemies of Pakistan. All they seem to care about is to be able to live their hedonistic lifestyles without any hindrance and bhaaR mein jaaye Pakistan!

Well, it is about time that the people who *really* care about Pakistan and Islam --the poor and the down-trodden--had their say.

Of course if the MMA do sweep to power in the near future you can bet your bottom dollar that all these rich Pakistanis will abandon the country and go off to live in the UK and the US in their flats in SW7 etc. This is what happened in Iran after the 1978 revolution and this is also what will happen in Pakistan.

In the long term--it will be for Pakistan`s benefit.

BTW the ulama are not as unwordly as many of you might believe. The only thing is they are principled. Now I am a Barelvi and have some serious differences of aqidah with, for example, Qazi Hussain Ahmad--but I would happily vote for him than for any of the secular candidates.
At least he sticks to his principles. Another example is of the late senator Allama Abdus Sittar Khan Niazi rahmatullah alayhi; even though he was sentenced to death in the 70s (or late 60s) for his part in the anti-Qadiani movement he refused to change his position; only when the government changed was his sentence revoked.

So don`t write off the maulvis! Give them a chance.
`al ulama warith ul anbiya` (hadith sharif)
`ulama anbiya e kiraam kay waris hain`
`olama waris e anbiya hastand`
The ulama are the heirs of the Prophets.

Romair (89):
Good post.
Lets talk realistically now. What changes will the Maulvi brigade bring about that will improve the lives of common man ? Will they create more jobs, will they provide opportunites to learn non-Islamic subjects so that people can learn useful skills ?, will they improve the lot of women ?, will they ask the tribals to carry their own weight and pay taxes/electricity ? What will the maulvis provide in terms of vision and long-term planning ?

Will they actually provide something or will they just continue to demand things to happen magically after coming into power. So far they want Shariah.. what is that going to do for the naswaar eating brutes ?

It seems that the manifesto of the maulvis is anti US, anti secular, anti etc etc. and so far pro taliban, pro al qaeda, pro shariah....

where does the common man`s issues come into play ? Are they just leading the common man on ? When things get worse for the common man, the maulvis can always say its because of secularism, because of USA, because of minorities who can now vote, or the ahmedis which are conspiring against good muslims.

The Maulvis haven`t said anything useful or enlightening. One thing though.. they may be making the common man happier.. so that if the common man is sent to do jihad and die for the maulvis he will die happy thinking he`s going to heaven... with all the bullshit he`s been fed.

The maulvis are dangerous because even though they do not have immediate solutions to Pakistan`s common man problems (which no one has), they say they do and when their solution doesn`t work, they will point to enemies far and near: secularists, jews, ahmedis, USA, etc. and say they are cause of your troubles... KILL them.

Dangerous game.

NAQSHABANDI

whats the difference between a deobandi and a wahabi and are you one of those if so cool...........i have some hardcore wahabi friends that i tempt with drinking beer me i prefer islamic revolution along iranian lines im half persian u know


javid eslami enqalab javid

if the maulvi leaders are so concerned about the plight of people from bannu, why were they sending these people to afghanistan to be slaughtered by the thousands? and what will stop these mullahs from sending these people to kashmir where they will murder innocent hindus and muslims before getting crushed like insects at the hands of indian security forces? and how many of these mullahs will send their own kith and kiln to fight in these battles?

who has gained besides the rapacious army generals and mullahs with the continued turmoil in Kashmir and afghanistan? who will the generals turn to when they need a fresh bunch of brain washed zombies to go into battles that enables these generals to send their sons to study in the u.s? (dont think mqm will be lining it cadres to go into kashmir). why is it such a surprise that army will support groups that protect its economic interest? what was the creation of iji all about? why is this election any different?

With regards to the plight of the poor man from bannu, the reason he is in the state that he is in is because he comes from a culture that celebrates rape and plunder and looks down upon hard work. as long as he does not develop enough sense to challenge the dogma passed down to him from generations, he will continue to live a life his forefathers have lived for centuries.

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teemporal: Thanks for your post. Basically all this discussion could have been under any of three articles - your`s, Saima Shah`s and this one. Actually this one is in support of ``Unraveling Pakistan``, providing additional and electioneering theatrical acrobats of military establishment and by overkilling mainstream political parties. I would not have thought of writing it if not for your`s and Saima Sha`s article. I even picked the title MMM after Saima Sha`s 3M title.
faisaluno #96: absolutely. I second your thoughts. Not that everybody else pays taxes honestly but maulvis contribute absolutely nothing to national exchequer. Honestly speaking they do not even have the justification to ask government to bring running water or toilets to their mosques and madaris, unless asked shamelessly in the name of serving religion. Poor people depend these services before mullahs.

re: how Mushy boy lost Kashmir
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=254058
Sridhar

interesting article in the news today:

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2002-daily/14-10-2002/main/main7.htm
MMA right to govern must not be denied

By Nusrat Javeed

ISLAMABAD: A peculiar group of armchair liberals from amongst the elitist crowd of Islamabad sounds desperate. It seriously believes that USA would just abandon us, if not bombing with B-52s, in case Muttehidda Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) of the religious-right of Pakistan is allowed to form the provincial government in NWFP.

Besides pushing Islamabad `back into diplomatic isolation,` we are told, Mullahs` inclusion in the central government will also discourage foreign investment in the country and `cancel out` all the good work, Shaukat Aziz has presumably done for turning the economy around with active inputs from World Bank etc during the three years of General Musharraf.

Our elitist crowd never approved General Musharraf`s idea of holding elections. Pakistan, they always believed, is yet not ready for a sophisticated system of `free for all democracy.` It needed `at least a-ten-year rule by a benevolent despot before returning to the luxury of electoral politics.`
....

temporal

............ do you really want me to write an article on the chowk? ......... sorry to disappoint you, but i don`t think i can do it ....... i couldn`t hold a coherent thought together for that long, and besides, who would put up with all those dots ............ it would be too hard and i really have nothing to say unless i have had three martinis too may and then at that point i don`t know what i am saying because i really don`t care what i am saying and sometimes i forget to put in the punctuation and that makes you mad and that in turn makes me sad because i really think that even though you are a rather anal grammararian you are an okay ..........

Zakk: Thanks for posting that article.

I agree, MMA has won and should govern. If they don`t govern well and people`s problems do not go away or get exacerbated, the logical thing is that people will vote them out next time.

Unless the people are really stoooopid and led to believe that MMA is governing fine, its just the secularists and the US/Jewish/India/Ahmedi/Shia conspiracy that is messing up people`s lives.

I for one, do not belive that Mullahs and Maulvis can solve any of the people`s problems... they can create many problems, generate frustration, threaten violence, fuel hatred, all by invoking their version of Islam- but visionary thinking, I don`t expect from them.

I would loved to be proved wrong.

naqshbandi

........ i am really impressed with maulana noorani`s credentials, specially the professorship at baghdad, but what has he really done ? ....... what did he accomplish as an MNA and what has he done for the people other than send poor young me to die in afghanistan and kashmir ............we might laugh at poor romair`s ``philanthrapist`` imran khan, but he has done a lot for the poor people of pakistan - and even though i think he is a political idiot, he continues to be the main beneficiary of my charity donations .......... what has the maulana done?

.............. but the big question is does the maulana believe in multi-party democracy or, like hassan turabi and the mad mullahs in iran, does he believe in one god, one party and one election ? ............ if you can assure me that he is a true democrat and not a momin who wants to establish allah`s kingdom by hook or crook, then i might consider overlooking the fact that he has sided with the horrible taliban, has called the murderer omar sheikh a mujahid and splashes water all over the plane toilet when flying first class on pia ................

.......... let`s not forget hitler was elected in 1933 and the rest is history ............