Election in Pakistan

Twisted irony:

Now that the MMA won in Baluch/NWFP, is it conceivable that many Pakistanis who cannot stand the harsh social policies of MMA combine would cross over to Afghanisthan and become sort of refugees; It used to be the other way around a while back.

Reply dost-mittar #29

``That`s because the leader of the moderates is a Kumbhkarn in his sleep-in phase!``

Kaun?????? Not hamara Atalji, surely...

The main organisation suspected without proof in the Bali bombing is an Islamist party which openly states that it aims to establish a panIslamic state in all of SE Asia. The establishment of an ideal Islamic state is the repeatedly stated baseline aim of many Islamist parties.

I doubt such a fundamental charter will be moderated, it may perhaps be toned down temporarily in the interest of policy but as an ultimate aim, it will only strengthened by the taste of power. Why doesnot someone ask Messrs Qazi Hussain or Munir Hassan directly about this and see what they say? And I am curious will their reply be any different from the normal religious belief of laymen Pakistanis?

That is nothing unusual statement from Qazi Hussein Ahmed. Within MMA, Jamaat-e-Islami has urban look and urban support and their statements are usually nore tuned to urban masses. Moreover, Qazi sSaheb is well-known collaborator of ISI in foreign policy issues. During Vajpai`s Lahore yatra, Qazi was acting upon the advice of his handlers because it was against Musharraf`s wishes, mainly to create rift between NS and military leading to Kargil and overthrow.
The military-mulah nexus is well in-tact on the basis of Kashmir and internal Pakistani politics. Military will be able to use MMA strength in Pakistan more readily now than before against any group deviating from military inspired internal and external policies.

``ll MMA accept Zubaida Jalal as PM? she seems to be front runner now alongwith Zafar Jamali .coz for MMA, woman as head of state not acceptable..... if she beocms PM , do we see this an effort to damage Benazir`s charm as one & only big woman leader.........

dost-mittar: The chance of modration for religious parties under current socio-political situation is minimal. Their voting block is also mainly on the basis of Islam first, Islam the solution, Islam the ideology and anti-west posture. The moderation in foreign policy is possible if the situation in Afghanistan, Kashmir, Palestine and Chechniya changes to their delight which does not have much chance in near future. At home front, more poverty, more frustration with economy or unemployment and the proliferation of western culture in small segment of society provides ammunition to religious right and translates into vote. Once a sizable vote block does not have bank accounts and no stake in riba-free banking, voting in favor of parties wanting Islamic banking is no problem for moderate Muslims as well. In democracy, they will have to stick to their agenda to win whatever percent of vote they can get. If their position in power structure is made permanent, like military is trying for themselves through NSC, or a khilafat/ religious kingdom type permanent mullah role such as in Saudi Arabia, taking the pressure off from winning popular support could turn many to moderation. I quote one of Musharraf statement and just change military to mullah:
[You need to bring military in (constitutional role through NSC), to keep military out (overthrowing elected governments)]
For Fazloo and his ilk, Musharraf has set an example. They could possibly ask an Iranian type guarantee:
[You need to bring mullah in (constitutional role through National Religion Council), to keep mullah out ]
Then you might try to keep feudals out by bringing them in some sort of National Agriculture Council.
And then to keep India out of interfering in Pakistani affairs..............oooooooooops!!!
Many of the mullahs have their children well-educated in the west and even having semi-western lifestyle. This is more common with Jamaat-e-Islami mullahs than other deobandi groups since the founder of JI, Maulana Maudoodi`s children got the best education available in USA. Qazi Saheb now can not be criticized from within JI for copying Maudoodi`s example. For outside public, it is not a major issue to decide their vote for or against anybody. Even BB and her family with all that liberal image have not opened a single additional school on their lands for girls or boys. Their tenants/ serfs are no better off in any way than others in that area. This personal hypocrisy does not effect PPP voting block much also because she does believe and practice educating women through government/ official chanel.

Reply Dost-mittar #25

``The experience in most countries is that extremists moderate when they come to power.``

Dost-mittarji - true of most of the factions, but even a few remaining hard line is enough to make a lot of trouble - look at Iran`s stalled progress, or even hamare haaN ki kahani. I get the feeling that Vajpayee, Swaraj etc. would have been delighted to make the beej the equivalent of the Christian Democrats (incrementally and by stealth), but that wasn`t what EVERYBODY wanted, and all it took was a few to derail that. Regards

Reply Stuka #8

“Why just Lallu Yadav? I was called Khaki Knicker behind my back by certain ``nose in the air`` friends who just happened to be related to Congresswallahs.”

Main kahna nahin chahtha thha, but now that you mention….(did they call you ChuddaaaaN? I bet they diiiiiid…)

But the rise of these parties is a clear indication that the Nehruvian parties (I include Basu’s bhadra lok CPI mob in this) failed in India – and perhaps they failed because they didn’t address the people’s concerns, in fact they had little respect for the people’s opinions when compared with their own enlightened ones.

For eg, how many Indians on chowk actually care all that much whether there is mandir or a masjid in Ayodhya? (I couldn’t give a rat’s ar$e, dunno about you.) I find it hard to believe that anybody would get aggro about it, yet the fact is, it IS a major issue for many people – and they voted for a party which said that it would address it seriously. (Vaisai beej is not living up to promise, but that is another issue…how long since anybody accused Kaangress of secularism, after all...)

I dunno about Pakistan (would be interested in hearing from you folks by the way) – does the higher profile of the MMA etc mean that some issues which ordinary people think should be on the agenda are now going to be discussed in a meaningful way? (This doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll happen – discussion really takes the shine off some ideas, IMO…) If so, WHAT issues?

the mullahs are back...aaah!

#23 by sameerJB

sameer: ``Dozakh ka azab and Janat ki Hawa`` are ultimate thing which we believe going to happen and its totally diffrent to this discussion! i didnt mean to disagree with u in totality, although perhaps not as much u have but we also have interaction with JI at various level and there are ppl at top level who understand moderation factor of Islam and they also understand if like Mr Zia ul Haq they just keep shouting Islam, Islam and do nothing to solve ppl problems, they are going to end up same as some of the other parties. However, nominating Maulana Fazrul Rahman for PM is not a wise move.

Dr Atta# i have no doubt about uor much familirity with him but still theory dont make much sense that he is minister because of JI. will he continue as minister if JI is part of colation?

Zakkk: Thanks for clarifying abput ANP and BNM but PML (N) being right of center and interest in seeing the governemnt failing will habe no interest in challenging JI workers or madrassah students. At least 5 MMA members owe their victories to PML (N) backing.
Nawaid: I know JI up close and personally. Pakistan will be more like an Islami Jamiaat-e-Tuliba running student union of a college or a university, if JI is part of the ruling coalition.
I don`t think it is logical not to talk about that has not happened yet, like you seem to be suggesting. What about, ``Musalmano dozakh ke azab se daro`` when that has not happened yet either?
I am much more familiar with Dr. Ata, including personally, than you think.

Sameer the BNM (H), ANP and to a lesser extent PML(N) in Punjab are also worker parties.

#5 by Urstruly:

thanks for the link…think the columnist has let his optimism get in the way of reason…

personally what mr haqqani says in this and in the previous column may be ...just maybe …closer to the reality as it emerges in the coming months

http://www.jang.net/editorial/index1.cfm?ed_fullpath=http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/oct2002-daily/15-10-2002/editorial/index.html&top_fullpath=http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/oct2002-daily/15-10-2002/top.htm&cont_fullpath=http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/oct2002-daily/15-10-2002/cont.htm

over the long term...the occupation of the army has to go once and for all...otherwise...new faces playing same old tricks on the poor awaam yet again!

#18 by sameerJB

i m surprised that Govt not formed yet and u are more worried about New Year eve celebrations... and whats the harm having some respect of holy month.......MMA workers! I dont recall seeing any party`s worker giving importance to Law of land, PPP and MQM, we had seen both party`s worker doing the same thing in past , who knows MMA workers might turnout little better as we never gave them chance....Islamic Revolution, i dont see it coming in near future , It would be very stupid from MMA to form Taliabn style Govt in Pak, are they stupid enough to do that.....i dont think so......Revoluiton involves thousand of factors and i dont think MMA is going to disturb the basic structure we have now and not necessary if they want to they can do that easily.......however, we might see few changes which might direct more towards Islamic fundamentals, and i dont see any reason to get frightend by those basic Islamic steps.

# Dr Attau Rahman...i think Dr Atta was very famous in his field long before coming into ministry and he proved with his performance that he was not a wrong choice........theory that Dr Atta was selected in October 1999 because of his assosiation with JI not making much sense as it was very early for the military Govt to associate itself to any party.

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Urstruly:

I`m not sure exactly what side you`re on: peace loving or your version of Islam peace or no peace. If its the latter IMO you`re a part of the problem.

Another thing, why does everyone have to agree on everything ? As corny as it sounds why can`t the different Muslim sects and everyone in general learn to live with their differences and diversity. If the Qazi doesn`t like women without their heads covered on TV, why doesn`t he switch to the Koran channel :)

Keeping people away from information and external influences is next to impossible in this day and age and why would you want to keep your people isolated and un-creative ?

This is the fundamental question. Why is the Qazi insecure ? How long does he think he can keep the people secluded and following his interpretatioon of Islam... Look at Iran, even though the Mullahs have had power for so long, people are still secretly doing what they want to and the younger generation desperately wants the control of the Mullahs to stop. And its going to happen sooner or later.

As far as the ideological differences go, the people are more easy going than the religous leaders. Its the religous leaders who have always fueled hatred and now they`re joining arms- the differences just don`t go away for the experts, especially since they haven`t gone away in 1400 years.

If the shias wanted shia rule the would move to Iran. they like other minorities don`t mind living in a plural society (even if ruled by a non-syed, shudder) as long as they can do what they want, beat themselves up every Muharram, do their niyaaz`s and majalis etc.

Were u a PPPia in college ?