Saima Shah October 16, 2002
#32 Posted by harimau on October 18, 2002 7:26:10 am
Ref Field Marshal #8
[In a national survey carried out by Herald magazine, the top problem according to Pakistanis was unemployment. Threat of war with India was second. Kashmir was around sixth or seventh. Return to democracy was ninth. ]
And exactly where did ``Establishing an Islamic Caliphate in Pakistan`` rank? Or, was that question never asked?
[In a national survey carried out by Herald magazine, the top problem according to Pakistanis was unemployment. Threat of war with India was second. Kashmir was around sixth or seventh. Return to democracy was ninth. ]
And exactly where did ``Establishing an Islamic Caliphate in Pakistan`` rank? Or, was that question never asked?
#31 Posted by harimau on October 18, 2002 7:26:10 am
Ref Field Marshal #8
[People need to have some faith in the poor common voter. He/she loves Pakistan more than all of us, since Pakistan is all that he has. He cannot even migrate out of it. At the very least, respect his/her views. He has initiated a process of kicking out the status quo politicians.]
On the other hand, elections in Jammu & Kashmir are `farcical`. And if the Indian voters turn out the Congress in favor of the BJP, that is the rise of fundamentalism.
Really, I have seen more analysis such as these issueing out of your fundament than acceptance of the fact that there is literally no hope for Pakistan until there is a radical change from its policy of confrontation with India which started on Aug 14, 1947.
[People need to have some faith in the poor common voter. He/she loves Pakistan more than all of us, since Pakistan is all that he has. He cannot even migrate out of it. At the very least, respect his/her views. He has initiated a process of kicking out the status quo politicians.]
On the other hand, elections in Jammu & Kashmir are `farcical`. And if the Indian voters turn out the Congress in favor of the BJP, that is the rise of fundamentalism.
Really, I have seen more analysis such as these issueing out of your fundament than acceptance of the fact that there is literally no hope for Pakistan until there is a radical change from its policy of confrontation with India which started on Aug 14, 1947.
#30 Posted by harimau on October 18, 2002 7:26:10 am
Ref faisaluno #15
[also think you give mush too much credit for newfound openness found in pak society. it was n.s who started the ball rolling by taking on the mullah over the changing of the sabbath. i am also optimistic that pakis will not give up on their freedoms. we came through zia and we will come through this. and eventually we will find our khatami.]
You may have to put up with several Asahollah -- er, Ayatollah -- Khomenis and even your Khatami may have to labor under your Khamenei. The latter has been explicitly provided for in the PCOs because the Prime Minsiter can be dismissed by the President.
[also think you give mush too much credit for newfound openness found in pak society. it was n.s who started the ball rolling by taking on the mullah over the changing of the sabbath. i am also optimistic that pakis will not give up on their freedoms. we came through zia and we will come through this. and eventually we will find our khatami.]
You may have to put up with several Asahollah -- er, Ayatollah -- Khomenis and even your Khatami may have to labor under your Khamenei. The latter has been explicitly provided for in the PCOs because the Prime Minsiter can be dismissed by the President.
#29 Posted by harimau on October 18, 2002 7:26:09 am
Ref arjun_m #17
[Bin Laden backer seeks top Pakistan post]
CNN reports that Pakistan aided North Korea in developing nuclear arms in return for missile technology.
Looks like Dubya may have to revise his `Axis of Evil` to include another country.
[Bin Laden backer seeks top Pakistan post]
CNN reports that Pakistan aided North Korea in developing nuclear arms in return for missile technology.
Looks like Dubya may have to revise his `Axis of Evil` to include another country.
#28 Posted by Ras on October 17, 2002 11:59:10 pm
A slight digression if I may;
From Dawn (Karachi)
PPP got highest number of votes
By Our Special Correspondent
ISLAMABAD, Oct 17: People`s Party Parliamentarians (PPP), who won 62 seats in the Oct 10 elections, have polled more votes than the PML(Q) which has bagged 77 seats, according to poll statistics released by the Election Commission.
The PML (Q) received 7.33 million votes, 24.81 per cent of the votes polled. But the PPP had 7.39 million votes (25.01 per cent).
The six-party alliance of religious parties, the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) which won 52 seats, including seven independents from Fata, polled relatively fewer votes. It received just over 3.29 million votes, and its overall percentage comes to 11.10. By comparison, the PML (N), which won a mere 14 seats polled 3.32 million votes (11.23 per cent), slightly higher than that of the MMA.
These statistics are based on the results of 269 out of the 272 seats announced by the Election Commission; three results have been withheld due to irregularities or complications.
More people cast their vote in last week`s election than in the two previous elections. They show high turnout in rural areas and villages; in some constituencies over 50 per cent. This figure is much higher than in the cities where polling was slow.
The EC said that out of a total of just over 70 million registered voters, fewer than 30 million cast their vote, which comes to (41 per cent).
The revised polling figures include votes cast by post, but without any significant difference in the overall party position.
#27 Posted by Prem on October 17, 2002 9:19:10 pm
I got taken in... Was just about to lose all hope in humanity (if Saima can be a Musharraf devotee, then....).
Thank you, Saima, for clarifying things. The sun will still rise in the east tomorrow (I think).
Thank you, Saima, for clarifying things. The sun will still rise in the east tomorrow (I think).
#24 Posted by arjun_m on October 17, 2002 1:53:16 pm
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#23 Posted by SameerJB on October 17, 2002 11:53:39 am
Saima, Samina and Samina:
Very interesting read. First time I read it casually and thought that Saima is lamenting at the masses for not standing behind the Captain / Hero. I was going to respond last night by suggesting a hoard of potential Captains waiting in line at GHQ and that it is better for a nation to back institutions than individuals (Captains and Heroes).
Reading second time, I felt author lamenting at people not voting as one of the Saminas and anNy responded.
Now Saima says that it is tongue in cheek and a satirical look at Musharraf.
Dumb and stupid Sameer becharey ka tau ser hee ghoom gaya. Seven out of last ten articles on chowk are authored by names starting with letter S; bas qayamat aaney wali hae.
Very interesting read. First time I read it casually and thought that Saima is lamenting at the masses for not standing behind the Captain / Hero. I was going to respond last night by suggesting a hoard of potential Captains waiting in line at GHQ and that it is better for a nation to back institutions than individuals (Captains and Heroes).
Reading second time, I felt author lamenting at people not voting as one of the Saminas and anNy responded.
Now Saima says that it is tongue in cheek and a satirical look at Musharraf.
Dumb and stupid Sameer becharey ka tau ser hee ghoom gaya. Seven out of last ten articles on chowk are authored by names starting with letter S; bas qayamat aaney wali hae.
#22 Posted by arjun_m on October 17, 2002 10:38:19 am
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#21 Posted by Tidbit on October 17, 2002 9:06:57 am
*thumbs up*...great read as always...while there are some things i was a bit confused about in your piece i have to agree with one thing...the people who didnt go and vote have no right to complain that the mullahs are coming to power...one of my relatives, he did the same thing...refused to go and vote because he didnt want a nishaan on his thumb!!! later on he was acting up about MMA winning...i told him very nicely to put a lid on it cuz he didnt vote...his opinion simply does not count!!!!
that`s the problem with us...we`ll let just about anyone do us...ravage us beyond recognition...but we`ll still let ourselves be screwed cuz we`re just too darn lazy to go out and make ourselves heard....sensible people??? where??? show me plz and ill show u a cow tht can fly!!
rgds,
samina
that`s the problem with us...we`ll let just about anyone do us...ravage us beyond recognition...but we`ll still let ourselves be screwed cuz we`re just too darn lazy to go out and make ourselves heard....sensible people??? where??? show me plz and ill show u a cow tht can fly!!
rgds,
samina
#20 Posted by mohar11 on October 17, 2002 7:49:53 am
//....you should never have been afraid of .... backing down on Kashmir. //
Sound advice from Saima. The general has one more chance now - to back down on Kashmir. Kashmiris have expressed what they want - through a very legit and successful democratic process. Kashmiris have voted for peace development - they don`t want no more paki/afgan/arab jehdis running around in their backyard. All that the general has to do now is declare innocently that he accepts the verdict of the people of J&K and slowly walk away from the kashmir`s jehadi mayhem - with his dignity in tact. He don`t have to accept defeat or the fact that so called Pakistani Ideology and TNT have failed miserably - the policy of ``thousand cuts`` has boomeranged badly.
He has the proverbial fig leaf now. He should grab the opportunity now.
This should not be too difficult for him - He has already done this once not long ago - when he walked away from Afganistan - under guise of protecting nuclear assets and Kashmir ``cause`` where as the reality was yet another of the paki foreign ``policies`` have boomeranged badly. Twenty years of investment in blood and money for some elusive ``strategic depth`` went out of the window in just two minute - all it needed was a phone call.
Kashmir ``cause`` is dead. Has the general enough grey cells to grasp the reality now. Judging from the past behaviour - I don`t think so.
Sound advice from Saima. The general has one more chance now - to back down on Kashmir. Kashmiris have expressed what they want - through a very legit and successful democratic process. Kashmiris have voted for peace development - they don`t want no more paki/afgan/arab jehdis running around in their backyard. All that the general has to do now is declare innocently that he accepts the verdict of the people of J&K and slowly walk away from the kashmir`s jehadi mayhem - with his dignity in tact. He don`t have to accept defeat or the fact that so called Pakistani Ideology and TNT have failed miserably - the policy of ``thousand cuts`` has boomeranged badly.
He has the proverbial fig leaf now. He should grab the opportunity now.
This should not be too difficult for him - He has already done this once not long ago - when he walked away from Afganistan - under guise of protecting nuclear assets and Kashmir ``cause`` where as the reality was yet another of the paki foreign ``policies`` have boomeranged badly. Twenty years of investment in blood and money for some elusive ``strategic depth`` went out of the window in just two minute - all it needed was a phone call.
Kashmir ``cause`` is dead. Has the general enough grey cells to grasp the reality now. Judging from the past behaviour - I don`t think so.
#19 Posted by ZafarA on October 17, 2002 7:49:53 am
``...I enjoyed poking fun at the sacred cows of Pakistani political priorities.``
hai tuabah!....I`m still shaking ten minutes after reading that...
hai tuabah!....I`m still shaking ten minutes after reading that...
#18 Posted by jay on October 17, 2002 7:49:53 am
PAKISTANI NATURE,
One thing good about romair is that he is the quetessential pakistani. He is educated was in the military, has been in the west. Only a few weeks ago he was proud that jihadists got only 3 percent votes, that was the rpoof that pakistanis are not jihadists. Now he is proud again because the same jihadists have won power, now thay are the liberal democrats, creatings jobs for the pakistanis. Again he is correct, the jobas are jihadic jobs, to become shaheeds so that the arab money flows to the families.
What is learned as part of the curriculum in the schools can manifest as chamelean, always jihadist at heart.
One thing good about romair is that he is the quetessential pakistani. He is educated was in the military, has been in the west. Only a few weeks ago he was proud that jihadists got only 3 percent votes, that was the rpoof that pakistanis are not jihadists. Now he is proud again because the same jihadists have won power, now thay are the liberal democrats, creatings jobs for the pakistanis. Again he is correct, the jobas are jihadic jobs, to become shaheeds so that the arab money flows to the families.
What is learned as part of the curriculum in the schools can manifest as chamelean, always jihadist at heart.
#17 Posted by arjun_m on October 17, 2002 7:49:52 am
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#16 Posted by SaimaShah on October 16, 2002 9:34:16 pm
re: faisaluno
thanks. just to clarify, the article is tongue in cheek and a satirical look at Musharraf. In his own eyes he has come to the rescue of Pakistan.
re: romair
really enjoyed your critique. It is a brilliantly pragmatic analysis...and I hope you are correct that Mullahs will be better than Feudals. In the meanwhile though, I enjoyed poking fun at the sacred cows of Pakistani political priorities. As for the critical part in the article being Islam vs. Secularism, I dont agree--My point is that Pakistani society has so far not raised its Collective Voice for equal opportunity, jobs and a better economy. And that is why I call it a magic kingdom.
thanks. just to clarify, the article is tongue in cheek and a satirical look at Musharraf. In his own eyes he has come to the rescue of Pakistan.
re: romair
really enjoyed your critique. It is a brilliantly pragmatic analysis...and I hope you are correct that Mullahs will be better than Feudals. In the meanwhile though, I enjoyed poking fun at the sacred cows of Pakistani political priorities. As for the critical part in the article being Islam vs. Secularism, I dont agree--My point is that Pakistani society has so far not raised its Collective Voice for equal opportunity, jobs and a better economy. And that is why I call it a magic kingdom.
#15 Posted by faisaluno on October 16, 2002 9:00:15 pm
enjoyed reading your article and completely agree with your description of south asia. however dont share your assesment about the architect of kargil. dont forget this is the guy whose actions directly resulted in the death of at least a thousand people and who has now conspired to hand the reins of the country to the worst elements of pak society; the jahil mullah and the feudal. dont think pak army is the sort institution that would take chances with something as unpredictable as the elections. if mush was really concerned about building a tolerant and progressive society, he would have taken at least minimal steps to insure some continuity after the elections. at minimum he could have insured the independence of ptv so that there was some checks on the new government. the fact that ptv continues to escape reform says something about the relationship between the rulers and the masses. there can be no better testimony to the mentality of our godfathers than their belief that they can continue to fool people through khabarnama.
also think you give mush too much credit for newfound openness found in pak society. it was n.s who started the ball rolling by taking on the mullah over the changing of the sabbath. i am also optimistic that pakis will not give up on their freedoms. we came through zia and we will come through this. and eventually we will find our khatami.
also think you give mush too much credit for newfound openness found in pak society. it was n.s who started the ball rolling by taking on the mullah over the changing of the sabbath. i am also optimistic that pakis will not give up on their freedoms. we came through zia and we will come through this. and eventually we will find our khatami.
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