Saima Shah October 16, 2002
#1 Posted by Saminasha on October 16, 2002 10:28:19 am
Outstanding metaphor in the first para! Will get back to you on the rest....
#2 Posted by temporal on October 16, 2002 10:47:01 am
saima:
when the captain
is but an usurper
and an impostor to boot
who owns neither the uniform
nor the medals
who has neither body nor soul
when the captain
is but a puppet
what do you do then
what would you do then?
lve,
t
when the captain
is but an usurper
and an impostor to boot
who owns neither the uniform
nor the medals
who has neither body nor soul
when the captain
is but a puppet
what do you do then
what would you do then?
lve,
t
#3 Posted by Ansari on October 16, 2002 10:47:28 am
Excellent. I really enjoyed reading this. Thank you.
``As for failure? There is no such thing where there is commitment.`` Golden words to live by.
``As for failure? There is no such thing where there is commitment.`` Golden words to live by.
#4 Posted by Godot on October 16, 2002 12:09:10 pm
Saima, this is just a wonderful article. Or it appears wonderful to me perhaps because I agree with everything you said. I see where you are coming from because I am coming from the same angle. Thanks for another great article!
t, sometimes I wonder about you!!! Musharraf a usurper? And Benazir, Zia and his child Nawaz self-less givers and motivated by the beautiful future of their country? What magical planet you live on?
t, sometimes I wonder about you!!! Musharraf a usurper? And Benazir, Zia and his child Nawaz self-less givers and motivated by the beautiful future of their country? What magical planet you live on?
#5 Posted by temporal on October 16, 2002 12:42:49 pm
#4 by godot:
[…t, sometimes I wonder about you!!! Musharraf a usurper? And Benazir, Zia and his child Nawaz self-less givers and motivated by the beautiful future of their country? What magical planet you live on?…]
you are not alone…everyday…at least once I wonder too:).
First godot-ji.…why even mention the names of those unmentionable plunderers and rapists?…did I write or hint about them in my post?…
…don’t you see?...the puppet and the puppeteers (the general or the captain here and the corps commanders) are making decisions over there on and for EVERY single Pakistani?…who gave them that right?
...t
[…t, sometimes I wonder about you!!! Musharraf a usurper? And Benazir, Zia and his child Nawaz self-less givers and motivated by the beautiful future of their country? What magical planet you live on?…]
you are not alone…everyday…at least once I wonder too:).
First godot-ji.…why even mention the names of those unmentionable plunderers and rapists?…did I write or hint about them in my post?…
…don’t you see?...the puppet and the puppeteers (the general or the captain here and the corps commanders) are making decisions over there on and for EVERY single Pakistani?…who gave them that right?
...t
#6 Posted by SaimaShah on October 16, 2002 12:55:00 pm
Hey Godot!!
thanks so much for the nice things you said. I really appreciate the praise from you.
Saima
thanks so much for the nice things you said. I really appreciate the praise from you.
Saima
#7 Posted by anNy on October 16, 2002 1:13:11 pm
im one of those 70 percent who didnt bother to vote. reading this i am feeling deeply ashamed
#8 Posted by Romair on October 16, 2002 1:35:17 pm
I am still waiting for the day when (us) Pakistanis stop looking at everything and every solution as a debate between Islam and secularism. It doesn`t make sense to paint every Pakistani problem within these boundaries. It certainly doesn`t make sense to paint every Pakistani solution within these boundaries. This is why people whose whole life revolves around some religion or some lack of religion scare me.
In a national survey carried out by Herald magazine, the top problem according to Pakistanis was unemployment. Threat of war with India was second. Kashmir was around sixth or seventh. Return to democracy was ninth.
There is no perfect solution for Pakistan, nor is there a perfect problem-solver. Countries at such infant stages of development go through repeatative phases of lesser evils (or at least lesser problems), until they find the correct solution. It is obvious the common Pakistani doesn`t really care whether he is ruled by a religious govt. or a secular one. He just wants one that can give him a job.
Hence the debate should be around which govt. can give a poor Pakistani more jobs. Not between which is more or less Islamic. The unfortunate part of all discourses on this website is that it is carried out by Pakistanis, who basically have everything in life, regardless of what kind of govt. Pakistan has (including me). I wish there was equal interaction from Pakistanis who don`t have anything (unfortunately they are illiterate and have no Internet connection).
Comments like, ``The others went off to protect Islam at the polling booths`` are actually a way of insulting such poor and common Pakistanis. I don`t agree with whom they have voted for, but I do understand where they are coming from. They did not vote for religion. They voted against the status quo, which has made their life hell (regardless of how, ``open`` it was for us Internet Pakistanis).
Our criteria for supporting govts. should not be who can make TV more liberal, but who can at least provide TVs to the poor (even if they are forced to listen to azaan the whole day).
People need to have some faith in the poor common voter. He/she loves Pakistan more than all of us, since Pakistan is all that he has. He cannot even migrate out of it. At the very least, respect his/her views. He has initiated a process of kicking out the status quo politicians. If the new ones do not deliver, he will kick them out as well. Anyone looking at this process as a negative, in an attempt to bring back the same BBs and NSs of the world, just because they allowed more entertainment on TV, is completely missing the point of democracy, and is being very selfish, and is greatly underestimating the intellect of the poor voter.
For the first time in my lifetime, Pakistan has a Naitonal Assembly that is less than 50% feudal. I never thought this would ever happen. If the % chunk has been taken by the maulvi, it is no big deal. Consider it a part of the process. Pakistan is not a Taliban or maulvi country. Believe me, the maulvi is a much lesser evil than the, ``liberal (or non-liberal)`` feudal. If for no other reason then because it is much easier to get rid of the maulvi, through a democratic process, since he can only motivate his voters to vote for him. He does not own the land they live on, and hence cannot force them to vote for him.
Musharraf doesn`t need to do anything now. Any major attempt from him now will only cause problems. He does not need to become the Captain of anything. He has done whatever he needed to, and I give him a lot of credit. Now, he should just move into the background, and let the elected folk run the ship, while keeping an eye on their corruption. The Captain of the Pakistani ship should be the poor common folk of Pakistan. We must respect their wishes and their vision, even if it may make our social life more difficult. Hopefully it will make their life a lot better. And in the end, we will all benefit.
In a national survey carried out by Herald magazine, the top problem according to Pakistanis was unemployment. Threat of war with India was second. Kashmir was around sixth or seventh. Return to democracy was ninth.
There is no perfect solution for Pakistan, nor is there a perfect problem-solver. Countries at such infant stages of development go through repeatative phases of lesser evils (or at least lesser problems), until they find the correct solution. It is obvious the common Pakistani doesn`t really care whether he is ruled by a religious govt. or a secular one. He just wants one that can give him a job.
Hence the debate should be around which govt. can give a poor Pakistani more jobs. Not between which is more or less Islamic. The unfortunate part of all discourses on this website is that it is carried out by Pakistanis, who basically have everything in life, regardless of what kind of govt. Pakistan has (including me). I wish there was equal interaction from Pakistanis who don`t have anything (unfortunately they are illiterate and have no Internet connection).
Comments like, ``The others went off to protect Islam at the polling booths`` are actually a way of insulting such poor and common Pakistanis. I don`t agree with whom they have voted for, but I do understand where they are coming from. They did not vote for religion. They voted against the status quo, which has made their life hell (regardless of how, ``open`` it was for us Internet Pakistanis).
Our criteria for supporting govts. should not be who can make TV more liberal, but who can at least provide TVs to the poor (even if they are forced to listen to azaan the whole day).
People need to have some faith in the poor common voter. He/she loves Pakistan more than all of us, since Pakistan is all that he has. He cannot even migrate out of it. At the very least, respect his/her views. He has initiated a process of kicking out the status quo politicians. If the new ones do not deliver, he will kick them out as well. Anyone looking at this process as a negative, in an attempt to bring back the same BBs and NSs of the world, just because they allowed more entertainment on TV, is completely missing the point of democracy, and is being very selfish, and is greatly underestimating the intellect of the poor voter.
For the first time in my lifetime, Pakistan has a Naitonal Assembly that is less than 50% feudal. I never thought this would ever happen. If the % chunk has been taken by the maulvi, it is no big deal. Consider it a part of the process. Pakistan is not a Taliban or maulvi country. Believe me, the maulvi is a much lesser evil than the, ``liberal (or non-liberal)`` feudal. If for no other reason then because it is much easier to get rid of the maulvi, through a democratic process, since he can only motivate his voters to vote for him. He does not own the land they live on, and hence cannot force them to vote for him.
Musharraf doesn`t need to do anything now. Any major attempt from him now will only cause problems. He does not need to become the Captain of anything. He has done whatever he needed to, and I give him a lot of credit. Now, he should just move into the background, and let the elected folk run the ship, while keeping an eye on their corruption. The Captain of the Pakistani ship should be the poor common folk of Pakistan. We must respect their wishes and their vision, even if it may make our social life more difficult. Hopefully it will make their life a lot better. And in the end, we will all benefit.
#9 Posted by stuka on October 16, 2002 1:53:05 pm
The article hits the nail on the head. Mush tried to please the Mullahs and the Americans. Should have made his choice and gone with it.
As I have said before, no power in Pakistan is strong enough to fight the Mullah and India at the same time. Join the Mullahs and fight India, or give up on Kashmir (the Indian part only, you don`t have to give up what you have already) and give the Mullahs a kick on their backside.
Your choice!!!
As I have said before, no power in Pakistan is strong enough to fight the Mullah and India at the same time. Join the Mullahs and fight India, or give up on Kashmir (the Indian part only, you don`t have to give up what you have already) and give the Mullahs a kick on their backside.
Your choice!!!
#10 Posted by stuka on October 16, 2002 1:53:05 pm
``In this background, India and Pakistan fight for Kashmir with men, weapons, budgets and international image. Without world approval, neither one can win Kashmir. ``
Correction: We do not have to ``win`` Kashmir. We are happy with what we possess so we have already ``won`` it.
Correction: We do not have to ``win`` Kashmir. We are happy with what we possess so we have already ``won`` it.
#11 Posted by LadyAna on October 16, 2002 2:26:34 pm
This was very well expressed Saima. I esp. enjoyed the poem.
(Just a minor aside - I believe u meant the Mullah`s cry of libertarianism).
(Just a minor aside - I believe u meant the Mullah`s cry of libertarianism).
#12 Posted by SaimaShah on October 16, 2002 2:33:34 pm
ladyAna: just knew I had got the spelling wrong...thanks!
#13 Posted by Prem on October 16, 2002 3:07:40 pm
Don`t understand all this ``captain`` baazi. Understand even less about the ``brave`` captain. But then, these lessons are not for me to learn.
{Overall, things may not be that bad. The military and the mullah - two natural allies and the ultimate sources of each other`s strength and legitimacy (or idiocy) - are far more likely to work together (as they have for the last tweny years) than the military and anybody else. Ideologically, the two legitimated institutions of ultimate coercive violence mirror each other; hence, at least in an administrative sense, some public validation of their cooperation may be a good thing for Pakistan. So long as the military remains scared of the US, mullahs are unlikely to cross certain boundaries. If that happens, Pakistani people may still come out ahead at the end of the day.
Even a faulty democracy in which the military disenfranchises 98% of the population, imprisons and expels 1%, and keeps the remaining 1% on tight leash is better than pure dictatorship. At least this may lead some people to develop the confidence that they can make a difference, that they don`t have to be eternally occupied by the people they themselves appointed to form their military. That belief is a powerful thing. When it arrives, nobody will need any brave captain to continue enslaving his or her nation. On this optimistic note, let me order bottles of mythical champa gi ni for everyone, the mullaists and the militarytes on one hand and the secularites on the other.}
{Overall, things may not be that bad. The military and the mullah - two natural allies and the ultimate sources of each other`s strength and legitimacy (or idiocy) - are far more likely to work together (as they have for the last tweny years) than the military and anybody else. Ideologically, the two legitimated institutions of ultimate coercive violence mirror each other; hence, at least in an administrative sense, some public validation of their cooperation may be a good thing for Pakistan. So long as the military remains scared of the US, mullahs are unlikely to cross certain boundaries. If that happens, Pakistani people may still come out ahead at the end of the day.
Even a faulty democracy in which the military disenfranchises 98% of the population, imprisons and expels 1%, and keeps the remaining 1% on tight leash is better than pure dictatorship. At least this may lead some people to develop the confidence that they can make a difference, that they don`t have to be eternally occupied by the people they themselves appointed to form their military. That belief is a powerful thing. When it arrives, nobody will need any brave captain to continue enslaving his or her nation. On this optimistic note, let me order bottles of mythical champa gi ni for everyone, the mullaists and the militarytes on one hand and the secularites on the other.}
#14 Posted by Saminasha on October 16, 2002 5:01:21 pm
Oh Saima, in case my post wasn`t clear, I really like this piece-its just taking me some time to absorb it. It looks daring-so I`m excited!
#15 Posted by faisaluno on October 16, 2002 9:00:15 pm
enjoyed reading your article and completely agree with your description of south asia. however dont share your assesment about the architect of kargil. dont forget this is the guy whose actions directly resulted in the death of at least a thousand people and who has now conspired to hand the reins of the country to the worst elements of pak society; the jahil mullah and the feudal. dont think pak army is the sort institution that would take chances with something as unpredictable as the elections. if mush was really concerned about building a tolerant and progressive society, he would have taken at least minimal steps to insure some continuity after the elections. at minimum he could have insured the independence of ptv so that there was some checks on the new government. the fact that ptv continues to escape reform says something about the relationship between the rulers and the masses. there can be no better testimony to the mentality of our godfathers than their belief that they can continue to fool people through khabarnama.
also think you give mush too much credit for newfound openness found in pak society. it was n.s who started the ball rolling by taking on the mullah over the changing of the sabbath. i am also optimistic that pakis will not give up on their freedoms. we came through zia and we will come through this. and eventually we will find our khatami.
also think you give mush too much credit for newfound openness found in pak society. it was n.s who started the ball rolling by taking on the mullah over the changing of the sabbath. i am also optimistic that pakis will not give up on their freedoms. we came through zia and we will come through this. and eventually we will find our khatami.
#16 Posted by SaimaShah on October 16, 2002 9:34:16 pm
re: faisaluno
thanks. just to clarify, the article is tongue in cheek and a satirical look at Musharraf. In his own eyes he has come to the rescue of Pakistan.
re: romair
really enjoyed your critique. It is a brilliantly pragmatic analysis...and I hope you are correct that Mullahs will be better than Feudals. In the meanwhile though, I enjoyed poking fun at the sacred cows of Pakistani political priorities. As for the critical part in the article being Islam vs. Secularism, I dont agree--My point is that Pakistani society has so far not raised its Collective Voice for equal opportunity, jobs and a better economy. And that is why I call it a magic kingdom.
thanks. just to clarify, the article is tongue in cheek and a satirical look at Musharraf. In his own eyes he has come to the rescue of Pakistan.
re: romair
really enjoyed your critique. It is a brilliantly pragmatic analysis...and I hope you are correct that Mullahs will be better than Feudals. In the meanwhile though, I enjoyed poking fun at the sacred cows of Pakistani political priorities. As for the critical part in the article being Islam vs. Secularism, I dont agree--My point is that Pakistani society has so far not raised its Collective Voice for equal opportunity, jobs and a better economy. And that is why I call it a magic kingdom.
Interact Index
Similar Articles
- Government Wins Manmohan Singh Loses Dost Mittar
- Feminist Mumbo-Jumbo! Pranay Rupani
- Translation of a (Love) Letter by Allama Iqbal to Miss Atiya Faizi Asif Naqshbandi
- Fields Of Joy Umer Murtaza
- Time for Musharraf to Quit saeed qureshi
US Elections 2008 Primaries
Latest Interacts
- dost_mittar: GT#47: Yes, we do and... Government Wins Manmohan Singh
- guru: Ahmed, We had come to... Dhokha and Being a
- sattar2: tahir bhai (re #408),... Of Medical Students, Passports
- guru: Re: # 283 "After... Dhokha and Being a
- mohar11: looks like Guru kicked... Dhokha and Being a
- guru: Ahmed, Mind also this the... Dhokha and Being a
- delhiwala: Dear DM sahib: It is... Government Wins Manmohan Singh
- guru: Ahmed, About paper coming to... Dhokha and Being a








reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content