Jawaid Siddiqi October 30, 2002
#54 Posted by MantoLives on November 7, 2006 10:47:09 pm
www.time.com/time/asia/2006/heroes/nb_jinnah.html

Mohammed Ali Jinnah
Pakistan, the nation the Quaid-i-Azam founded, needs him and his values more than ever
By Mohsin Hamid
My earliest memory of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, Pakistan`s Quaid-i-Azam, or Great Leader, is from my childhood. The electricity had gone because of load shedding, and I was doing my homework despite my grandmother`s insistence that this was bad for my eyes. My textbook was part of the curriculum assigned to all primary-school students in Pakistan, and it described Jinnah as a young boy, himself reading a book by candlelight at his home in Karachi, a hundred years earlier. I had heard of Jinnah before, of course; his name was ubiquitous in Pakistan, a country otherwise unsure of its heroes. But it was the small miracle contained in the notion that he—a character in a book—and I—a reader in real life—were doing precisely the same thing that struck me most, and has stayed with me ever since.
In Pakistan, Jinnah is venerated because his struggles on behalf of the Muslims of India resulted in the establishment of the country. But Jinnah`s true claim to greatness as an Asian leader is more universal: he sought to protect the rights of minorities through constitutional law.
Jinnah was a secular, Westernized, British-trained barrister; himself a Muslim, he married a Parsi, spoke mainly in English and wore European clothes. In 1920, he left Mahatma Gandhi`s Indian National Congress, of which he had been a member for two decades, not because of his own faith but because he believed Gandhi`s use of Hindu symbolism would encourage religious zealotry in politics. As Asia emerged from colonization, among the most vexing problems facing the continent`s nascent nation states was that of their large minority populations. Jinnah`s preferred solution was a legal one: constitutional measures ranging from electoral safeguards to guaranteed representation in state institutions. It was only when his attempts to achieve these measures failed that he began to campaign for a separate state for the Muslims of the subcontinent.
Six decades later, Pakistan has drifted far from Jinnah`s vision of a secular democracy. President Pervez Musharraf, who invokes Jinnah`s values in speeches, has little patience for democracy. The religious opposition parties reject as un-Pakistani the concept of secularism. And the inhabitants of smaller provinces like Baluchistan find themselves lacking the protection for minorities that Jinnah made his life`s mission. If one believes in the rule of law, mistrusts religious zealotry and opposes tyrannies constructed in the name of majorities, one should find it easy to see oneself in Jinnah and to empathize with his struggle. Much of Asia could learn from his example, none more so than those of us who belong to the state he founded.
Mohsin Hamid`s second novel, The Reluctant Fundamentalist, will be published next spring

Mohammed Ali Jinnah
Pakistan, the nation the Quaid-i-Azam founded, needs him and his values more than ever
By Mohsin Hamid
My earliest memory of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, Pakistan`s Quaid-i-Azam, or Great Leader, is from my childhood. The electricity had gone because of load shedding, and I was doing my homework despite my grandmother`s insistence that this was bad for my eyes. My textbook was part of the curriculum assigned to all primary-school students in Pakistan, and it described Jinnah as a young boy, himself reading a book by candlelight at his home in Karachi, a hundred years earlier. I had heard of Jinnah before, of course; his name was ubiquitous in Pakistan, a country otherwise unsure of its heroes. But it was the small miracle contained in the notion that he—a character in a book—and I—a reader in real life—were doing precisely the same thing that struck me most, and has stayed with me ever since.
In Pakistan, Jinnah is venerated because his struggles on behalf of the Muslims of India resulted in the establishment of the country. But Jinnah`s true claim to greatness as an Asian leader is more universal: he sought to protect the rights of minorities through constitutional law.
Jinnah was a secular, Westernized, British-trained barrister; himself a Muslim, he married a Parsi, spoke mainly in English and wore European clothes. In 1920, he left Mahatma Gandhi`s Indian National Congress, of which he had been a member for two decades, not because of his own faith but because he believed Gandhi`s use of Hindu symbolism would encourage religious zealotry in politics. As Asia emerged from colonization, among the most vexing problems facing the continent`s nascent nation states was that of their large minority populations. Jinnah`s preferred solution was a legal one: constitutional measures ranging from electoral safeguards to guaranteed representation in state institutions. It was only when his attempts to achieve these measures failed that he began to campaign for a separate state for the Muslims of the subcontinent.
Six decades later, Pakistan has drifted far from Jinnah`s vision of a secular democracy. President Pervez Musharraf, who invokes Jinnah`s values in speeches, has little patience for democracy. The religious opposition parties reject as un-Pakistani the concept of secularism. And the inhabitants of smaller provinces like Baluchistan find themselves lacking the protection for minorities that Jinnah made his life`s mission. If one believes in the rule of law, mistrusts religious zealotry and opposes tyrannies constructed in the name of majorities, one should find it easy to see oneself in Jinnah and to empathize with his struggle. Much of Asia could learn from his example, none more so than those of us who belong to the state he founded.
Mohsin Hamid`s second novel, The Reluctant Fundamentalist, will be published next spring
#53 Posted by MantoLives on April 20, 2006 3:41:36 am
The governor general of Pakistan aka Jinnah enjoyed less powers than the President of the United States ....
He operated under schedule 9 of the constitution.
This is not a very factual article and flies in face of reality.
He operated under schedule 9 of the constitution.
This is not a very factual article and flies in face of reality.
#52 Posted by harimau on November 16, 2002 7:01:52 am
Ref punjaban #51
[Harimou, you`re beginning to bore me.]
I am not surprised to hear that you are bored by facts.
[Just for your information, I have not mentioned the word Khalistan or the concept of Khalistan even once. So stop jumping to conclusions.]
It is just the tone of your postings that suggest that you are a closet Khalistani.
As for your brother being picked up by the police, let me tell you a story. I was returning to the US on Jan 26, 1986, from New Delhi. Since the worthless Fakhrs running the Delhi metropolitan area couldn`t guarantee one`s safety in travelling to the airport at night, I was advised to take a cab to the airport at 9 pm for my 2 am flight. Arriving at the airport, I found that I would not be allowed into the terminal building till 1 hour before the flight time because of security considerations. Jan 26, if you care to remember, is Republic Day in India and the police expected some attempts at bombing the airport. Here I was, stuck in the Delhi cold in shirtsleeves, because neither the Hindus nor the Punjabis nor the UP Bhaiyyas, have the slightest clue about how to run a bus station, let alone an airport. However, they are all good at one thing, the result of which is the population boom in India.
That is my unbiased opinion about ``Hindu rule``. So, don`t jump to conclusions.
[Harimou, you`re beginning to bore me.]
I am not surprised to hear that you are bored by facts.
[Just for your information, I have not mentioned the word Khalistan or the concept of Khalistan even once. So stop jumping to conclusions.]
It is just the tone of your postings that suggest that you are a closet Khalistani.
As for your brother being picked up by the police, let me tell you a story. I was returning to the US on Jan 26, 1986, from New Delhi. Since the worthless Fakhrs running the Delhi metropolitan area couldn`t guarantee one`s safety in travelling to the airport at night, I was advised to take a cab to the airport at 9 pm for my 2 am flight. Arriving at the airport, I found that I would not be allowed into the terminal building till 1 hour before the flight time because of security considerations. Jan 26, if you care to remember, is Republic Day in India and the police expected some attempts at bombing the airport. Here I was, stuck in the Delhi cold in shirtsleeves, because neither the Hindus nor the Punjabis nor the UP Bhaiyyas, have the slightest clue about how to run a bus station, let alone an airport. However, they are all good at one thing, the result of which is the population boom in India.
That is my unbiased opinion about ``Hindu rule``. So, don`t jump to conclusions.
#51 Posted by Punjaban on November 12, 2002 12:06:25 pm
Harimou, you`re beginning to bore me. Just for your information, I have not mentioned the word Khalistan or the concept of Khalistan even once. So stop jumping to conclusions.
#50 Posted by harimau on November 12, 2002 7:22:13 am
Ref Parcheesi #45
[Harimau #44
You are one of those who should be ignored in cyber dialogue. Goodbye!]
What happened? You just noticed that facts are not on your side?
Same thing goes for Manjit #48, shibil #47, and punjaban #46.
As for you, punjaban, if you want Khalistan, just look at what happened to land-locked Kashmir in Oct 1947. But then, if you don`t know what happened in the 1980s, I can`t expect you to know what happened in 1947. Oh, in case you haven`t looked at a map, Punjab doesn`t have an outlet to the sea.
[Harimau #44
You are one of those who should be ignored in cyber dialogue. Goodbye!]
What happened? You just noticed that facts are not on your side?
Same thing goes for Manjit #48, shibil #47, and punjaban #46.
As for you, punjaban, if you want Khalistan, just look at what happened to land-locked Kashmir in Oct 1947. But then, if you don`t know what happened in the 1980s, I can`t expect you to know what happened in 1947. Oh, in case you haven`t looked at a map, Punjab doesn`t have an outlet to the sea.
#49 Posted by harimau on November 12, 2002 7:22:13 am
By the way, all of you guys rooting for the Nehru dynasty, here is a piece of good news. Rahul Gandhi is being made the leader of the Youth Wing or some such unit of the Congress. You have got the 4th generation of the Nehru family ready to open his own personal numbered Swiss bank account.
#48 Posted by Manjit on November 11, 2002 7:28:25 pm
punjaban, Harimau needed to be told that he is an idiotic, facist, racist thug. But reading your posts I get a feeling that you have been spending too much time with advani-haters who have their own agenda.
http://www.indiaexpress.com/news/national/20021111-0.html
Advani recommends Sikh jatha be allowed to visit Pakistan
18.44 IST 11th Nov 2002
By IndiaExpress Bureau
Overruling objections raised by officials, Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani has recommended that a Sikh jatha be allowed to go to Pakistan through the Wagah land route.
``Advani has directed that the file relating to the travel by the jatha be sent to the Prime Minister`s Office for a final clearance,`` vice chairman of National Commission for Minorities Tarlochan Singh said on Monday.
Mr. Singh said that the Deputy Prime Minister had convened a meeting to discuss the issue as the officials had objected to the jatha going to Pakistan by road to attend the November 19 birth anniversary of Guru Nanak.
Their objection was based on the ground that road and train travel between the two countries had been stopped following the terrorist attack on Parliament.
According to Mr. Singh, he told the meeting it would amount to discrimination against the Sikhs if they were to be denied an opportunity to go to Pakistan. No Sikh jatha, he reminded the meeting , had gone to Pakistan since the 1999 Kargil conflict.
``Advani was of the view that a special permission be granted for jatha to visit Pakistan,`` Singh said.
He said the Deputy Prime Minister also brushed aside the objections raised by various agencies.
http://www.indiaexpress.com/news/national/20021111-0.html
Advani recommends Sikh jatha be allowed to visit Pakistan
18.44 IST 11th Nov 2002
By IndiaExpress Bureau
Overruling objections raised by officials, Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani has recommended that a Sikh jatha be allowed to go to Pakistan through the Wagah land route.
``Advani has directed that the file relating to the travel by the jatha be sent to the Prime Minister`s Office for a final clearance,`` vice chairman of National Commission for Minorities Tarlochan Singh said on Monday.
Mr. Singh said that the Deputy Prime Minister had convened a meeting to discuss the issue as the officials had objected to the jatha going to Pakistan by road to attend the November 19 birth anniversary of Guru Nanak.
Their objection was based on the ground that road and train travel between the two countries had been stopped following the terrorist attack on Parliament.
According to Mr. Singh, he told the meeting it would amount to discrimination against the Sikhs if they were to be denied an opportunity to go to Pakistan. No Sikh jatha, he reminded the meeting , had gone to Pakistan since the 1999 Kargil conflict.
``Advani was of the view that a special permission be granted for jatha to visit Pakistan,`` Singh said.
He said the Deputy Prime Minister also brushed aside the objections raised by various agencies.
#47 Posted by Shibil on November 11, 2002 7:34:59 am
reading the discussion here has been very interesting. i imagine communal riots and massacres start in much the same way, with displays of ignorance, factual inaccuracies, and chauvinism on both sides. and harimau`s unrepentant and fascistic ethnic slurs betray the dark heart of ethnic nationalism. i thank you all for the enlightenment.
#46 Posted by Punjaban on November 10, 2002 10:24:10 am
Pardesi, good thinking. Can`t argue with an idiototic, facist, racist, Advani worshipping thug. Harimou, I`m not talking to you, I`m talking at you. Yeah, I read a lot of your previous posts thug. Forget about the Golden Temple for a second, and go read a few books yourself on the state-sponsored terrorism that took place against the Sikhs in Punjab. My 17 year old brother was picked up by the police whilst he was simply visiting as late as 1990. So buddy you take off your `Hindu`s rule supreme glasses` for a second and take a look at the facts. Each and every post you`ve written in full of hate, ignorance and facism. Foaming at the mouth again? Its a constant problem with you isn`t it? During Arungzebs` time, Jahangir`s time? What were your lot doing? Begging for protection from the same lot you consider stupid, what a short memory. Pathetic. More? I don`t think so, enough time has been wasted on you. Thankfully most of the Hindu`s I know are great people, otherwise what a horrible impression I`d have from reading your rantings. Die slow Hitler!
#45 Posted by Pardesi on November 10, 2002 7:10:46 am
Harimau #44
You are one of those who should be ignored in cyber dialogue. Goodbye!
You are one of those who should be ignored in cyber dialogue. Goodbye!
#44 Posted by harimau on November 10, 2002 1:12:33 am
Ref Parcheesi #43
In case you don`t remember historical events, you can always search for information on the net or -- gasp, this ought to be a major revelation to you -- read some books on the subject.
As to your comments about starving the rascals to death, you want to forget the fact that several visitors to the Golden Temple were held as hostages by Bhindranwale. As to smoking them out using some incapacitating gas, when you do not have a HVAC system (that is Heating, Ventilating and Air Conditioning) in place, you cannot pump in gas. If you fire tear-gas grenades, because of the various enclosures within the temple, one needs to send a force in and fire the grenades into each room and Bhindranwale already had his sharpshooters on the high points within the Golden Temple.
The fact is that the Indian Army, not being forced to recruit OBCs like you to meet some arbitrary quotas in its planning department, did consider the available options and took the best course of action feasible under the circumstances.
As to getting rid of Indira Gandhi`s descendants, that seems to be the only way to eliminate dynastic succession in India. Of course, brain-dead mofo`s like you do not have any idea what democracy means and are willing to perpetuate political dynasties. If only Aurangzeb had half a brain, he would have had a referendum and pathetic idiots like you would have confirmed him as Emperor.
Does your mom know you are posting on Chowk?
In case you don`t remember historical events, you can always search for information on the net or -- gasp, this ought to be a major revelation to you -- read some books on the subject.
As to your comments about starving the rascals to death, you want to forget the fact that several visitors to the Golden Temple were held as hostages by Bhindranwale. As to smoking them out using some incapacitating gas, when you do not have a HVAC system (that is Heating, Ventilating and Air Conditioning) in place, you cannot pump in gas. If you fire tear-gas grenades, because of the various enclosures within the temple, one needs to send a force in and fire the grenades into each room and Bhindranwale already had his sharpshooters on the high points within the Golden Temple.
The fact is that the Indian Army, not being forced to recruit OBCs like you to meet some arbitrary quotas in its planning department, did consider the available options and took the best course of action feasible under the circumstances.
As to getting rid of Indira Gandhi`s descendants, that seems to be the only way to eliminate dynastic succession in India. Of course, brain-dead mofo`s like you do not have any idea what democracy means and are willing to perpetuate political dynasties. If only Aurangzeb had half a brain, he would have had a referendum and pathetic idiots like you would have confirmed him as Emperor.
Does your mom know you are posting on Chowk?
#43 Posted by Pardesi on November 9, 2002 7:19:41 am
#32 by harimau on November 4, 2002 10:26pm PT
Harimau, you are right that Sikhs do not have half a brain. You and your kind are the smarter ones. In your ideal and efficient world, when a woman commits crime, you guys will kill her son or grandchildren. If a “thug” hides at historical or religious site, you will destroy the place to get him rather than close all entrances and starve the rascals to death. If some bodyguards kill a Prime Minister, you will kill thousands of innocent civilians with official approval. You are indeed part of a superior culture and are at a higher level of evolution!
I wish you and your kind of brainy fellows a very happy and prosperous future given your ethos and justice system.
Harimau, you are right that Sikhs do not have half a brain. You and your kind are the smarter ones. In your ideal and efficient world, when a woman commits crime, you guys will kill her son or grandchildren. If a “thug” hides at historical or religious site, you will destroy the place to get him rather than close all entrances and starve the rascals to death. If some bodyguards kill a Prime Minister, you will kill thousands of innocent civilians with official approval. You are indeed part of a superior culture and are at a higher level of evolution!
I wish you and your kind of brainy fellows a very happy and prosperous future given your ethos and justice system.
#42 Posted by Waheeduzz on November 7, 2002 11:02:16 am
punjaban#41 Enjoy ur visit. Just wanted to emphasize that talking to friends, looking externally, visiting briefly can give only inaccurate idea of a society. Real nature of people becomes understood only by carefully seeing what historical stories impressionable children are taught, what languages little children learn in schools, what they are told are society`s ideals, what groups are children are taught to be `in group` and `out group`, what memories of 200, 300, 1000 year old are used to motivate people. This information is difficult to get unless one becomes part of a society and its too very late. Bengalis have had very bitter experience for the emotional decision we made in 1947.
nawaid#40, no matter how hard you try, that Pakistani soul inside you has been sold to an alien culture. You are incapable of appreciating your mother culture. Some pakistanis learn to hide their soul better than others but you are all the same.
nawaid#40, no matter how hard you try, that Pakistani soul inside you has been sold to an alien culture. You are incapable of appreciating your mother culture. Some pakistanis learn to hide their soul better than others but you are all the same.
#41 Posted by Punjaban on November 7, 2002 9:31:05 am
Waheeduzz #39, it would be my first visit to Pak and I am prepared only to be surprised. You are certainly right about Punjabi in schools, its not exactly promoted, and although its an option at higher level education, thats no consolation.
Nawaid before I answer your question in any detail, please could you explain to me what you think Punjabi cluture is, and if Basant, Bhangra, Abrar are not part of that culture then what category do you put them under?
Nawaid before I answer your question in any detail, please could you explain to me what you think Punjabi cluture is, and if Basant, Bhangra, Abrar are not part of that culture then what category do you put them under?
#40 Posted by nawaid on November 6, 2002 8:44:17 am
#38 by punjaban:
all information u gave absloutly right..in recent years Basant has become major event in Lahore and related cities....yeah no doubt its a fun . and i been to that once........my question is whether Basant and Bhangray are the real punjabi culture we should preserve and promote?...coz when we read in newspaper and watch on TV, Lahore`s intelectuals talk about promoting `` Heer Ranjha`` Baba Bhullay Shah , punjabi dresses , Lahore`s old city area, the old style houses, Lahore`s Mughal history etc
Most punjabi culture expert denied Basant as culture, they always labled it as Hindu tradition..... and may be it is...........its like pop singer Abrar Ul Haq sings punjabi songs which are very good and famous but no one claim these songs as real punjabi cultural songs........and most punjabi ppl apply same thing for Basant...........althoguh popular but not real punjabi culture and should not be promoted.
Eid is quitter affair....of course its an islamic tradition which mostly based on simplicity......whether ppl follow that simplicity or not it should b simple.
all information u gave absloutly right..in recent years Basant has become major event in Lahore and related cities....yeah no doubt its a fun . and i been to that once........my question is whether Basant and Bhangray are the real punjabi culture we should preserve and promote?...coz when we read in newspaper and watch on TV, Lahore`s intelectuals talk about promoting `` Heer Ranjha`` Baba Bhullay Shah , punjabi dresses , Lahore`s old city area, the old style houses, Lahore`s Mughal history etc
Most punjabi culture expert denied Basant as culture, they always labled it as Hindu tradition..... and may be it is...........its like pop singer Abrar Ul Haq sings punjabi songs which are very good and famous but no one claim these songs as real punjabi cultural songs........and most punjabi ppl apply same thing for Basant...........althoguh popular but not real punjabi culture and should not be promoted.
Eid is quitter affair....of course its an islamic tradition which mostly based on simplicity......whether ppl follow that simplicity or not it should b simple.
#39 Posted by Waheeduzz on November 5, 2002 9:58:01 pm
Punjaban #38, will this be the first time you will be setting foot in Pakistan? Give us a report on how Punjabi is being promoted there in Punjabi school system. My opinion of Pakistan is completely different from your. Any unbiased information will be appreciated.
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