Jihad – The Misperceptions

My vote also goes to Jay for clearly identifying the problem and offering genuine solution. The Ijtehad, Ijma stuff could at most reach the level of liberation theology and that is not sufficient to challenge the orthodox and conservatives in Islam, well equppied with history and literature. Islam needs to be forcefully challenged from within for its place beyond mosque and individual spirituality. It has no role other than spirituality. All religions must be defensive only. A religion must not have any offensive role whether Jihad or missionery. Like Islam, Christinaity is also on the offensive, offering salvation through proselytizing activities.
Christianity does not have enough moral, ethical and historical rights to criticize Islam. They have been selling their brand of snake oil just as much as Muslims did. A Christian must condemn Christianity along with Islam to be honest in criticizing Islam. It was not reformation that changed western civilization but enlightenment coming from people who were, overtly and covertly, sick of Christinaity.
The snake oil of modern Christianity is neither a model nor an antidote to 7th century Arabic snake oil venom. It is the same snake oil first extracted from Mount Sinai, albeit in a modern packing.
No reformation or Ijtejad, just kick it out of your day to day life without thinking or worrying about it. Think about yourself first and foremost.

dost-mittar #78

Thanks for clarifying the scope of the Tamil issue in Sri Lanka.

However, my main point remains valid. Hindus the world over did NOT view this as a Hindu vs Non-Hindu issue. As you point out, it is an issue of minority rights and federalism. Compare this to the Jihadism which has enveloped Kashmir where we have a similar issue of minority rights and federalism. Why did one conflict remain a ``local`` issue and another become a jihad?

Often the argument is made that other communities have also indulged in terrorism. What is so special about islam and Jihad?

I would argue that what is special is the ``knee-jerk`` internationalization thru terror of any dispute that involves muslim communities. And the high degree of support for such terror found within mainstream islam. These characteristics separate it from situations like Sri Lanka and Northern Ireland.

faisaluno #71

Why don`t you bother to read the article you have posted!!

Instead of ranting about the RSS and its connection to the extremist Tamil Tigers (now there is a fantasy for you!) you might arrive at the beginnings of some common sense.

[quote]
``The Tamil diaspora started out as a force encouraging Tamil radicalism, but eventually it evolved into a source for moderation,`` said Suresh Premachandran, head of a Tamil rights party in Sri Lanka. ``Sept. 11 changed that even more. People here knew after that there would never be any sympathy for any suicide bombers.``

Unfortunately, in the Middle East Arabs and Muslims continue to indulge, justify, praise or provide religious legitimation for Palestinian suicide bombers, even after 9/11.
[end-quote]

Can you learn anything from this? Probably not as your rants demonstrate that you are in some altered state.

The confrontation is Sri Lanka was in fact a confrontation between a buddhist majority and an ethnic hindu minority. How many ``charities`` have hindus funded that supported the nonsense of the Tamil tigers? How many hindu religous leaders defended the Tigers hideous use of human bombs??? How many Hindus said ``Yes, the tigers are bad BUT....``?

The answer to all of these is 0. But why bother with the facts? They will make you unwell.

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re: hamidm2

{a true religion is confined to the church and soul and leads to salvation for the believer without having to dispatch the infidel jay to hell ...................jazak allah khair (whatever that means) }

...methinks salvation can also come from avoiding state universities, not smoking nicotine, not doing off-balance sheet deals, eating lots of garlic and onions (after the date) to reduce risk of cancer as per the latest national institutes of health research, exercising, not dating too many desi girls, and keeping the 401K in money market accounts...

...what does allah, christ, or ram have to do with any of this?....

dear believers of jerry falwell:

you guys win even when tallying the damage done by suicide bombers. as the following column by india`s favourite columnist indicates, hindu suicide bombers in sri lanka have killed three times the number of people killed killed by palestinian and pakistani suicide bombers combined. pakis please note that friedman never mentions the religion of those bombers.

if the rss gadflies who swarm around chowk are intellectually honest as the author of the above column, they will now start publishing columns criticizing their own religious dogma which is responsible for causing so much misery in south asia.


August 7, 2002, Wednesday
EDITORIAL DESK


Lessons From Sri Lanka

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN ( Op-Ed ) 767 words
COLOMBO, Sri Lanka -- It`s often forgotten that while suicide bombing started in the Middle East, the people who perfected suicide as a weapon of war were the Tamil Tigers militia here in Sri Lanka, the island-state off the southern tip of India. In the last decade, Tamil suicide bombers, many of them women, killed some 1,500 people, including an Indian prime minister and a Sri Lankan president. And in a bizarre twist, the Tigers filmed many of their suicide bombings to show and motivate their troops.
But since last December a cease-fire between the Tigers -- who have been militating for a separate state for Sri Lanka`s Tamil Hindu minority in the northeast -- and the government, which is dominated by the Buddhist Sinhalese majority, has halted all suicide bombings. No one can be sure it will last, after 18 years of civil war. But it`s still worth examining how suicide was defused here, and whether any of this might apply to Palestinians and Israelis.


To begin with, one of the key factors in halting Tamil suicide bombings was the Tamil diaspora, living in North America, Europe and India. This Tamil diaspora had been the main source of funding for the Tamil Tigers. But the Tamil diaspora is made up largely of middle-class merchants and professionals, and when in the late 1990`s the U.S., Britain and India all declared the Tigers a ``terrorist`` group, not freedom fighters, the Tamil diaspora became embarrassed by them and started choking off their funds.

``The Tamil diaspora started out as a force encouraging Tamil radicalism, but eventually it evolved into a source for moderation,`` said Suresh Premachandran, head of a Tamil rights party in Sri Lanka. ``Sept. 11 changed that even more. People here knew after that there would never be any sympathy for any suicide bombers.``

Unfortunately, in the Middle East Arabs and Muslims continue to indulge, justify, praise or provide religious legitimation for Palestinian suicide bombers, even after 9/11. The Palestinians have convinced themselves, with the help of many Arabs and Europeans, that their grievance is so special, so enormous that it isn`t bound by any limits of civilized behavior, and therefore they are entitled to do whatever they want to Israelis. And Israelis have convinced themselves that they are entitled to do virtually anything to stop it.

Second, Sri Lankans had to pay retail for their extremism. They had no oil or foreign powers to finance their war. And because so much domestic savings was diverted to the war, Sri Lanka`s roads and infrastructure today are decrepit. It is not surprising, therefore, that the peace movement, which blossomed in the last two years, was led by the business community -- particularly after the Tamil Tigers blew up Colombo`s airport in July 2001 and sent the country into an economic tailspin.

``The business community finally said, `Enough is enough,` `` said Mahesh Amalean, chairman of MAS Holdings, Sri Lanka`s leading apparel maker. ``That turned the tide. Our motto became `Sri Lanka first.` ``

Israelis and Palestinians, by contrast, got to buy their extremism wholesale. Palestinians could engage in suicide bombings without becoming destitute because the Arab states are always ready to pass the hat for them. Israelis have been able to build insane settlements in the heart of the West Bank, because the U.S. was ready to provide aid with no limits attached.

Third, in Sri Lanka the government realized it had no military solution for suicide bombers -- that the only way they could be stopped was if the Tigers themselves could be induced to turn them off. The Tigers, meanwhile, realized they while they could terrify the government with suicides, they couldn`t even hold their own ethnic capital, Jaffna. So they both finally opted for negotiations. Unfortunately, the Palestinians abandoned a peace offer and opted instead for the delusion that suicide bombing will get them more, and Ariel Sharon has opted for a purely military response.

Finally, while Jews and Arabs have carried out their war with all the world watching -- and often meddling in ways that prolonged the conflict -- Sri Lankans have conducted their war, in which 64,000 people have died, with almost no coverage.

``Ours has been a forgotten war, and we`ve had to live with our mistakes and to find our own way out,`` said Milinda Moragoda, one of the government`s peace negotiators. ``It had its disadvantages, but also its advantages.``

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``No religion ... condones terrorism or endorses indiscriminate violence.``

++

There is a survivalist bias in this statement. No religion which manages to survive long enough endorses violence. Question is: who will cleanse the ``indiscriminate`` jihadic elements from Islam? Will it be Islamists themselves or rest of us outside Islam`s spell? Rest of us could not be expected to pore over Quran and all the rest of crap Islam has produced and discover gems it is supposed to have. If Islam needs reformation only followers of Islam can do it. When terror attacks come from Islamic people rest of us will use military methods only. Explanation that the attack has no ground in the books of Islam is going to remain academic only for rest of us.

I think so first big step is adopting reasonable attitude towards criticism of Islam by Islamic people.

At BBC news URL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2415751.stm BBC reports a story ``Iranian academic sentenced to death``:

A liberal journalist and academic, Hashem Aghajari, has been sentenced to death for apostasy - the renunciation of his belief - according to Iranian reports. etc etc.

What Islamists have to say of this? Those who hold on to opinion that Islam is such a model religion in spite of all evidence against it have a lot of explaining to do. And in fact a lot of explaining is in fact going on. Some of that follows following pattern: Islam is a Great Religion. And when somebody asks the question: Why then some followers of Islam practice ``indiscriminate violence`` as part of their creed? The stock answer we get is: they have ``deviated`` from true Islam. Wait a minute. Aren`t Christians also accused of having ``deviated`` from some ``true`` path? The path which was parallel to Islam?

Some of the prescriptions in Islam for deviating people has supposedly come from main core of Quran and are not open to challenge.

Amongst German students of Christianity there were rationalists also who challenged traditional Christian myth. According to Christine Schirrmacher in http://www.visi.com/~contra_m/ab/cschirrmacher/rationalism.html some of their arguments is being used by clever muslims to attack Christianity itself and to tout Islam as ``perfect`` religion. Islam is supposed to be perfect religion because there is no waywardness, no wavering, no revision, no ``deviation``.

What Islam needs is a revision of prescriptions against apostasy. And it seems that is not possible. Islam is destined to disappear from face of earth. Without Islamists` right to criticise traditional Islam, Islam is condemned to die.

-einsteinwallah

...... i always knew jay was a true friend of pakistan and people like abrar who write silly articles like this are the true enemies ........ jay, the horrible hindoo personified, is right when he says, ``It is articles like this that block the last ray of hope for social progress in pakistan and poison the last stream to the scorched social landscape of pakistan`` ..........

....... we all know what jihad means and we all know that there is a lot in ``true`` islam that does not need ijtihad or any such nonsense - it needs to be thrown out with the trash ...........islam, as ordained by god and ganbriel, needs a reformation by man - it does not need a revival ........... and muslims need an enema to get rid of fear, superstition and ignorance ..............

............. so instead of wasting our time in mindless prayer this ramadhan, we should be doing some introspection to figure out how we can make islam a truly great religion instead of some medieval ``way of life`` which is based on misogyny, swineogyny and wineogyny .............. a true religion is confined to the church and soul and leads to salvation for the believer without having to dispatch the infidel jay to hell ...................jazak allah khair (whatever that means)

yesterday, in CNN online-main story, they had a story where the Al-queida, Hammas types were meeting in a place in south america where three countries meet, and one of the lines in the last para read that investigators found ``40+ pakistani passports`` at the site.

My question: who is involved in giving out pakistani passports to these thugs to begin with? Don`t the foreign ministry in Pakistan do background check?

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#11 by Urstruly on November 6, 2002 11:41am PT

... Currently, as a matter of fact, Muslim children living in West are already being subjected to what is shown in this picture, just replace star with the crescent:

http://www.fmv.ulg.ac.be/schmitz/Holocaust/classrm.html

++

And you do not have a picture as evidence, or do you? Okay no problem. At least you must be having name of one such school where Muslim children are being subjected to such indignities. Obviously you do not have an atom of evidence.

-ew

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In April 2002, eight months after the attacks of Sept. 11, a Saudi cleric named Sheik Saad al-Buraik, preaching in a mosque in the Saudi capital of Riyadh, called for the enslavement of Jewish women by Muslim men. ``Do not have mercy or compassion toward the Jews,`` Mr. al Buraik said. ``Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours.``

Mr. al-Buraik, it is important to note, was a member of the official Saudi delegation that accompanied Crown Prince Abdullah during his visit to President Bush in Crawford, Tex., at the end of April 2002.

JIHAD AND ISRAEL,

only one country has so far dealt with jihad with a full understanding of its components. Uncountables is the main element. Thses are just fodder, they do not count in any way, sent out by the society simply to be killed. Fist step to contain jiahd is to translate the uncountables to countables. Several of the palestenian security forces have been attacked by israel to translte the uncountables to countables.

Next concept is haheeds. The families once they get report of the death, turns the uncountable to a shaheed. The charity organisations immediately swing into action providing money and gifts to the family. Again israel has been demolishing the houses of shaheeds. This in turn increses the cost of jihad to the islamic charity organisations.

The next element is the mullah who trains and sends the uncountables to meet their deaths, and again israel has been targetting these elements.

Consequence of all these actions is that jihad in israel has been reduced and there is hope for peace. Every country having a jihadic border has to learn from israel the essential aspects of jihad.

Abrar, may be even you can learn from israel.

``Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours.``

Does anybody know where such instructions come from?

{The writer does not appear to condemn violence entirely, but is worried that more Muslims are killed than others.}

Killing nonMuslims is the birthright of every Muslim. That is what Quran teaches. If the writer condemned violence against nonMuslims entirely, he would have to stop calling himself a Muslim.