An All-Inclusive Rejoinder to All the Chronic Complainers

temporal: Good verse! The list of military perks you provided is actually lootmar of one time for one season. They do it every year. Romair always comes back with bogus arguement of putting the lives on the line for the sake of nation. Those who put their lives on the line actually get leftovers or nothing. Full one half or more people in the army provide services and nothing to do with putting their lives on the line. They are the ones who move up, grab fertile land pieces and plots. The military perks delivered to shaheed families are very tiny portion of spoils. Even Nishan-e-Haider does not make a family rich the way GHQ people become rich. Another noticeable point is presence of captains in that list. Except for Navy, only way to retire as captain is either discharge, incapability or corruption the way Gohar Ayub retired as captain from the army. All these captains are relatives of big families or serving military elite of GHQ. Two years of college at Kakul, two years to become captain, get retirement and posted in embassies in Berlin, London, Rome or positions in civil services. Cashing in on the blood of poor lance naiks and hawaldars........

Following the frontal attack by three chowk heavy weights, temporal, sac and hamidm, field marshal is retreating on the pretext of poor ministerial choices. I wonder he did not see the list of ``elected members of King`s parties. Humayun Akhtar - cousin of three sitting generals, son of Khamosh Hero Akhtar Abdul Rehman, Khrsheed Mahmood Kasuri - unable to speak Urud or Punjabi, detested by the people of his constiturncy for never living or visiting Qasur, was not considered worth minister during NS government, Faisal Saleh Hayat and Rao Sikander -price for floor crossing, Aftab Sherpao - second most corrupt Pathan of past 20 years after Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Abdus Sattar Lalika - good choice, Umar Ayub - oh sh1t. Compare this list with the list of people I provided in my previous post.
At least it confirms that NS was right in dismissing Musharraf - three years pf planning, thinking and implementing by the most expensive and most powerful organization behind Musharraf yielded this heap of garbage. We are so fortunate for not going to war under his leadership. Thanks India for not attacking us. With a person like Musharraf at the helm, we are/ were so vulnerable given the outcome of his planning of last three years within Pakistan.
And thanks USA for leaving him with no choice but buckle.

End of another innings
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Now that the new govt has been elected, and all the MNAs are in place, I think they should all at least do one thing:

Make sure they don`t spend all their time trying to bring each others` govts. down. This is exactly what Benazir and Nawaz did to each other. Benazir put Nawaz`s old father in jail. She nearly shut down his business empire. Nawaz put Asif Zardari in jail (where he still is). Both parties ran pillar to post, from Chief Justices to COAS, in an attempt to kick each other out. It reached a stage where each party had to literally fly all their members and lock them up in guest houses, to make sure the other party did not steal them away for no-confidence votes.

What did either of them gain by this? Both of them are out and are now trying to be united. They have even been unable to do that, since the PPP tried to hoodwink the MMA and ARD, due to which the PML(N) is now with MMA.

The sitting govt. is already allied with the President (and the Army) so the Army and President won`t kick it out. Only the opposition can kick it out. The opposition should only concentrate on pointing out the corruption of individual ruling MNAs. It should make it a point that it will let the sitting govt. complete its term. If it doesn`t do that, then we will be back to square one.

Musharraf should also now retreat into the background, and only come into the foreground if there is corruption to check. Shaukut Aziz and Ishrat Hussain are still the financial bigwigs, so they should be able to make sure everyone stays clean.

The other important factor are the women MNAs. This is almost a revolution for women, and for that the outgoing govt. deserves a hell of a lot of credit. The women MNAs, most of whom are feudal off-springs, should make sure they concentrate more on protecting women`s rights in a united fashion, rather than protecting their own feudal rights.

Religious minorities are also very well represented now, through joint electorate, and through reserved seats. They are more enfranchised now than Pakistani Muslims. For this, the outgoing govt. deserves a lot of credit also. The empowered minority leaderss should concentrate on using their power to protect minority rights also.

Unfortunately, my prediction is that unless the PPP and/or MMA comprimises with PML(Q), the sitting govt. will not last more than two years. Not because the President will fire it (as many people fear), but because the opposition will bring it down.

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I have supported Musharraf, throughout, from the time that many racist Punjabis were calling him a, ``muterwa`` dictator, for ousting the, ``Punjabi`` regime of Nawaz Sharif. I have absolutely nothing to gain from this personally. I had predicted he would hold elections in three years, when everyone said he wouldn`t. And he did. I had predicted he would go after the mullah brigade, when everybody said he was a part of that brigade like Zia. And he did. I think he has stabilized the economy and has given women and minorities great power. Three things which, when it comes down to it, are the most important things in a society (even more important than democracy - for, what is the benefit of democracy if it leads to poverty and cannot protect the most suppressed elements of society, ie. women and minorities).

Pakistan is no longer a potential failed state - for this Musharraf and his team, deserve our thanks - dictator or no dictator.

I was too young to remember Ayub. I opposed the govt. of Z. Bhutto outrightly, as barely a young teenager. I opposed Zia, even though I was in the military at the time. I opposed Benazir and Nawaz to the point that I actually ended up joining a political party. That is how much I hated them.

Musharraf was the very first leader I supported, in my whole life. The easiest thing for me to have done was to use my career in the military as a base, and oppose him outrightly, thereby gaining cheap popularity amongst the peanut gallery here on Chowk. An Indian criticizing India is worth fifty Pakistanis criticizing India, and vice-versa. Similarly, an ex-fauji criticizing a fauji could have become a hero to people like SameerJB, who racistly hate that whole profession.

But, I went against the grain, and supported Musharraf. I still feel I can tell a good General from a bad one. He is about as, ``good`` a dictator as possible, that the Pakistan Army can produce. All others, previous and future, will be worse.

So did he completely live upto hte high standards many of us had set for him?

Unfortunately not completely. He should have gone after the feudals (a lifelong unfulfilled dream of mine) like he went after the maulvis. After that, he should have resigned into the Boston sunset, after Oct. 12 of this year. Two things he did not do.

Due to the complete famine of leadership in Pakistan, no one since Jinnah has emerged on the scene, who did anything worthwhile for the country. This would have made Musharraf the second best leader in Pakistan, in my book since Jinnah (though there is no comparison between the two). Unlike Ayub and Zia, Musharraf did not gain form the system and did not make his family a part of the system. Unlike the ``democrats,`` he is not corrupt.

But! He has made himself a part of the system now, even if he is not financially benefitting from it. Even if this is with good intentions, it breaks the rule of ethics. Due to this, all I can say now is that he is still the best option amongst the other available leaders, and I will continue to support him over them, until a better one appears. But, unfortunately, I cannot say that he is the second best since Jinnah. That position still remains unfilled.

Leaders should never be, ``just the best available option.`` They should be role models. And when they have played their innings, people should be asking, ``Why is this person leaving us,`` not, ``When will this person leave us.``

I, no longer, have the love of my land that I had as a soldier, when I was ready to die for it in a second. Like all civilians, I am more pragmatic and self-centered now. But I am, like so many Pakistanis, still a patriot. And as a patriotic realist, I still support Musharraf. But as a patriotic idealist, I am still in search for the, ``second best since Jinnah.``

Who knows, maybe Imran Khan or Zubeida Jalal........Or maybe no one....

Lets see what happens, now that the old politicians are back in power.....

I opposed Musharraf from day one. I did not know NS or Musharraf personally for one and only one reason. The constitution of Pakistan did not allow unlawful means to overthrow an elected government. It is actually trason according to constitution. Only reason Musharraf overthrew a civilian government was his power hunger. Being COAS is the only position from which power could be grabbed with ease. Holding on to power beyond his rubber stamp Supreme Court clearly attest to his hunger. For three years he has been ruling and manipulating the system to fulfill his ambitions - the PCOs, LFOs and constitutional amendments. He has used military discipline to advance his ambitions whereas the purpose of military discipline is to efficiently defend the country and not lining up turncoats through NAB threats and files. He destroyed the emerging two party system and democratic institutions.
The economy is not much better now than on October 12, 1999. Only difference is accummulation of forex as a result of buying in the open market, decline of hundi system repatriation, IMF and WB releasing loan installments without trouble and total stoppage of almost all civilian development projects. Except for the last factor, rest are the result of US involvement against terrorism following 9/11/2001 incidents.
All acts of an illegitimate ruler are illegitimate and so is the current government. Sooner this government and Musharraf leave, better it is for Pakistan. Opposition must try their best to bring down this government and Musharraf as soon as possible to be replaced by an interim set up of civilian national unity government for one year with elections in October 2003. Beg those five honorable Supreme court justices who refused to take oath under PCO, to come back to SCP with their seniority in tact. Nawabzada Nasrullah for President and Asghar Khan as prime minister for one year, dropping all cases against BB, NS and Altaf Hussain immediately and allowing them to return as soon as possible. For once, SCP must declare overthrow illegal without handing down punishments to culprits.

Roamings of a roamair

“I have supported Musharraf, throughout, from the time that many racist Punjabis were calling him a, ``muterwa`` dictator…..”

“I was too young to remember Ayub. I opposed the govt. of Z. Bhutto outrightly, as barely a young teenager. I opposed Zia, even though I was in the military at the time.”

‘I opposed Benazir and Nawaz to the point that I actually ended up joining a political party. That is how much I hated them.”

”Musharraf was the very first leader I supported, in my whole life.”

“I went against the grain, and supported Musharraf. I still feel I can tell a good General from a bad one…”

“I will continue to support him over them, until a better one appears. But, unfortunately, I cannot say that he is the second best since Jinnah. That position still remains unfilled.”

“I, no longer, have the love of my land that I had as a soldier, when I was ready to die for it in a second.”

“I am, like so many Pakistanis, still a patriot. And as a patriotic realist, I still support Musharraf.”

“I am still in search for the, ``second best since Jinnah.``”
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“I am more pragmatic and self-centered now”(romair)

Dear romair – pragmatic may be -- but ‘self centered’? --- NO WAY:-)

Romair#67

[racistly hate]

Sir jee, I asked your rank earlier also but you were too busy to respond.
Now I don`t need to know....for me the above quote is enough.

racist Punjabis?????? what does `muterwa` mean anyway...does that word indicate some kind of racist thought on the part of punjabis? *confused*

``The sitting govt. is already allied with the President (and the Army) so the Army and President won`t kick it out. Only the opposition can kick it out.``(romair)

agree 100% with romair -- and agree 100% with sameerjb -- the opposition should kick it out...

maale haraam bood basooey haraam ruft

the problem with romair............

........... romair exemplifies the gallant officers of the pak army who never give up, except on the battlefield, and who think they know what is good for the country ......... it comes from the arrogance and stupidity that is bred at kakul and risalpur and perpetuated by the fauji foundation and the shaheeen foundation ............. it comes form the deep-rooted belief that the army officer is the only clown who can run this circus .........these gentlemen believe that the clowns in khaki own the circus ............this myth, which has been perpetuated by the likes of ayub, zia and musharraf, continues to fog the mind of the fauji .......... it doesn`t matter what everyone else sees thinks, as far as romair and his ilk are concerned, musharraf is the saviour ............ they see true democracy where everyone else sees a farce and a sham ...........they don`t teach the principles of democracy at risalpur, and they certainly don`t teach them to withdraw from a obviously bad position - unless it is kargil ..........

............ it will be interesting to see how many generals are included in the new administration and how many colonels are inducted into the railways ........... one thing is certain - we will continue to have only one brand of corn flakes ..............

re: democratic exercise in Pak
I read in Dawn yesterday that swearing in by the ministers was quite a fiasco. When the oath was being taken, ministers were supposed to substitute ``I`` for their individual names. Looks like they did not do so, resulting in quite a laugh and merriment all around.
On a different note, LKAdvani has said in parliament that India will always be secular. This is a significant statement coming from him: http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=268699
Sridhar

A memorable line spoken after the vote for election of prime ministe at Pakistan NA:

``yeh zamir ka vote naheeN, General Zamir ka vote thaa``!! -- wah Maulana

Gen Zamir is the ISI chief -- zamir is conscience

khamkhwa #72 You are going to hate me for this, but in addition to indicating your belief that military rank and tidy prose go hand in hand (as I already mentioned below), your post also shows a sincere respect for military rank. I am sure that General PhuN PhaN would be pleased with your attitude.

Carry on, soldier... :-)

Intertesting article about Zubeida Jalal
http://www.satribune.com/archives/nov18_24_02/P1_jalal.htm
Will the Real Zobaida Jalal Please Stand Up and Explain

By Hasan Jan

QUETTA: Another “clean” minister of General Pervez Musharraf has now revealed her true colors and it has now been confirmed that this “simple looking Balochi doll” used her position as Minister to get a USAID grant of millions of dollars for her own NGO in her province.

Projected as General Musharraf’s favorite for the prime minister’s slot, the real Mrs Zobaida Jalal is not what her public relations image has been made out to be, in the media, among the elite and even to top US White House circles.

Zobaida Jalal has added her name to the list of not so clean members of General Musharraf’s cabinet by getting her NGO, `Mand Trust` several million dollars out of a total USAID allocation of $60 million. This she did in a very clever and calculated manner, using one of her friends and an Education Ministry Adviser to sit on the Board of USAID to disburse the millions which had come from Washington.

This friend, Ms B. Jamil, acted on her behalf and ensured that Jalal’s NGO got the money, although Jalal was supposed to be supervising the fund and was not supposed to apply for the money for her own NGO. It was a clear case of conflict of interest.

She created an aura of simple grandeur around her, posing that General Musharraf had great confidence in her and was going to make her the next Prime Minister. It is believed that even when she left the Education Ministry to contest the elections, her minions made sure that the US money got transferred to her NGO.

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And another article about Imran Khan
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/
Shameful, is the word

Kamran Shafi

The writer is a retired army officer

and a freelance columnist

kshafi1@yahoo.co.uk

Oft have I pointed out that if there are two ways of doing something, one good and one atrocious, we will always do it the atrocious way; that we will make a mockery of everything we do; that we will always do the wrong thing and make absolute fools of ourselves, to the absolute derision of the rest of the world. This time around, look at the way in
This reminds me. I had requested Mon General to consider awarding the game-warden, a `subordinate` employee of the Punjab Game Department who had apprehended the Great Khan and his powerful friends, a high civil award (why not the Sitara-i-Pakistan?) for doing his job and doing it well. As a matter of fact, when the Great Khan went public denying he was poaching, the warden went public too to say that he might well be a poor man, but he had himself caught Khan and his friends. I request the President once again, for this is one of the few times in recent memory that a public official has done his duty well and honestly, and in the public eye.

ROmair #67

``Unlike Ayub and Zia, Musharraf did not gain form the system``

The Chief of Navy who resigned a week before Oct 12 1999(the date of the coup) recently said Musharraf carried out the coup because he didnot want to be courtmartialled for Kargil.

``Unlike the ``democrats,`` he is not corrupt``

Tell me again, those who break laws in the constitution are called corrupt, and what are those who overthrow the entire constitution to protect themselves from prosecution called? Take a guess and look below.

``He has made himself a part of the system now, even if he is not financially benefitting from it``

He HAD to make himself a part of the system simply because he is liable to charges of treason and sedition for overthrow of the constitution, just like he had the coup to prevent his own courtmartial.

Now he cannot afford an unsympathetic National Assembly ever, as he will be in fear of prosecution all his life. No wonder he looks worried these days, the above has only just become apparent to him, he had not thought the whole thing through earlier. (why does this seem typical?).

Of course the harried look could be that `real` democracy is the least of his concerns and the real item on his mind is that he now knows where Bin Laden is hiding and given his rather stern friends the MMA(thats another thing he never thought through), he can neither give Laden up, nor can he be sanguine about how the US will respond when they find out that he knew..

i could see one happy man in new Cabinet i-e , Sheikh Rashid Ahmed .....he is back in his favourite ministery, where he can easily persue to showbiz chicks:

Reema, Meera, Nirma etc. Congratulation Sheikh Sahib is back, now get ready for foreign tours.

only competent person i can figure out in this new cabinet is Zubaida Jalal............. Khurshid Kauri as foreign and Faisal Saleh as interior ...oh paleez...Liquat Jataoi and Ghous Bash ........God help us and why Rao Sikandar is senior minister? and who are these state ministers.....

IN CONCLUSION:

``All acts of an illegitimate ruler are illegitimate and so is the current government.``(sameerjb)

bless you sameer miaN.