Teasing or Torture?

dost-mittar:
When I said ``In India at least...``, I meant in context of our favourite India-v-Pak theme. Of course there is no comparison in the way a rape victim here is treated with, say America (and it`s bad enough I suppose there too, though perhaps not so obvious).
The point is that there has to be a start somewhere and these kinds of small steps will only help. The question is- and I`m baiting Urstruly again here- what has Pakistan done? How can any civilised country declare ``fornication`` a crime? The only factor to be considered must be if there was consent. If not, it`s rape. Is that so difficult to understand?
Personally, I can`t see how anybody can defend their religion for this idiotic stand and still live in the contemporary era. Even if ``fornication`` IS frowned upon by your holy books, can`t some amount of rationality prevail when making the laws of the land?
And---forgive me, this is just getting more and more interesting-- what about other ridiculous concepts like alcohol being haraam and interest ditto? Are you seriously telling me there are no single malts and fixed deposits in Pakistan?
We hindoos may be horrible but we sure as hell let our heads rule our hearts when making our laws.
SM

Urstruly #61:
Thanks for the clarification. I agree SH is notoriously difficult to prove even in the most ``liberal`` of climates, not to mention rape convictions are only slightly easier to get.
In India at least there seems to be some sort of effort to increase the sensitivity of the authorities to the trauma of a rape victim. All-women police stations for one. Plus I read an article yesterday on how the police are being trained to be more sensitive in their questioning of victims.
Of course as long as the stigma of being raped exists, there will always be leering idiots who say ``She asked for it``...
We have a long way to go, in both our countries. Trust me- this is not propoganda, just concern....
Cheers
SM

Soundmeister

Either you are too assumptive or do not care to separate propaganda from truth (or you might yourself be an instrument of propaganda).

In Paksitan 4 male witnesses are required to prove the case for fornication, since extramarital sex is a cognizable offense. That is based on Islamic standard of witness to issue the hadd punishment. The Hudd punishments are those which are prescribed by Almighty Himself. For a married fornicator the hudd punishment is death by stonning and for unmarried fornicator the hudd is flogging with 100 lashes. If the standard of witness, which is four adult males of good characters is not fulfilled the hadd punishment is not applicable; but it does not mean that the offender (s) will go scott free. If standard of witness is not met then the punishment imparted is a Ta`azeer, which is a punishment decided by society - could be any thing from simple fine to imprisonment and flogging with maximum of 10 lashes. In case of Pakistan it is a any combination of the three.

Rape is a different story. Rape does not come under Hudood laws, which means that the standard of witness (4 adult male witnesses) is not applicable in this case. Unfortunately, worldwide rape is such a crime for which the onus of proof is always on victim. And it is not just in Paksitan but all over the world. According to Islamic law a rape victim does not have to produce 4 male witnesses to prove her case. So in this case, since hudd cannot be imposed the cases are prosecuted on the basis of circumstancial or medical evidence, or witnesses account and Ta`azir is applied which is punishment that society suggests. In case of Paksitan it is imprisonment of 7-14 years with hard labor, 10 floggings, and fine upto a million rupees.

In the recent past there was, however, a confusion regarding the rape cases where the victim was asked to produce 4 witnesses to prove her allegation as to she was raped. Since it is also a Hudd crime to slander and accuse someone with fornication (Qaz`f) without proof, there was a legal blackhole where in the law the differnce between rape and fornication was not clearly defined. But that loophole was voided by Federal Shariat Court in its decision in a rape case last year and therefore now rape victims do not have to produce 4 witness to prove their allegation.

Sexual Harassment is neither fornication nor rape, if actual sex did not happen. In this case Hudd is not applicable. SH is always very difficult to prove worldwide. The cases are usually decided on witnesses accounts or evidence such as a letter written by alleged offender etc. The allegation of victim is not enough around the world. And since SH is not fornication or rape by definition, the Islamic law of slander (Qaz`f) also does not apply.

I hope that helps.

With absolutely no intention to hijack your article, Bina- it`s well written as usual, and this one has genuine angst to back it up-- is it true that Pakistani courts will only convict a rapist if there are 4 male witnesses? I mean, what if there is physical evidence proving the crime?
If that`s the case, I shudder to think how cases of sexual harassment can EVER be proved....

#53 by Bina:

no doubt very well written and the poblm u mentioned is genuine,,,,for soloution u said

{As to my ideas of how to solve this problem, I support the manner the UAE authorities have tackled it. Once in Dubai my sister told me that two Asian women were walking down the street and an Arab in a car was following them and harassing them verbally. One of the women whipped out a mobile phone, called the police, and within minutes the roadside Romeo was on his way to jail. A stiff fine should finish the deal nicely.}

i think we r missing the ground realities here, pakistani society is not compatible to UAE in most of the aspects . Yesterday a seventeen year old gil in Hyderabad killed by electric shock coz of Karo Kari tradition....it was unfortunate that she didnt have the mobile phone to call someone for help....and do you think our police is much efficient now to do something............for some matters we are far behind then African Zolo tribe which is we consider as uncivilised.
Today an educated gil murdered her parents living in posh area like Defence coz parents made her to get divorced. If parents are that much involve in EVE teasing that gil killed them then what we can expect from other ppl. We have to remember Pakistan is a country with only 15% of literacy rate, we can not compare it with the other countries.

UAE and pakistan , economy, systems, awareness of rights, education,and above all every body has mobile phone.......nothing is near to each other....i dont see any comparison or adopting their methods.

Saminasha #57 DNA testing is indeed shaking the assumption that all those behind bars (not to mention those who have been executed) actually committed the crime. In the US, at least one state (Indiana I think) has put a halt to all executions after DNA evidence exonerated at least 15-20 condemned prisoners. And all this in a country where the justice system is driven by hard evidence and due process to a greater extent than virtually any other country in the world.
In Pakistan, the abuse of the justice system is rampant, from all indications. Professional witnesses are a dime a dozen. Truth is so often hidden behind power and influence, that it is not unreasonable to say that there is only punishable thing you can do in Pakistan: be without influence.

I think so one should exclude mild cases of eve seeing from the definition of eve teasing especially if man and woman involved happen to be single. I mean if one stops altogether this seeing in case of all singles, life would dull for both men as well as women.

Excluding ``mild eve seeing in singles`` cases may create problems for arresting officers. How will they determine marital status or whether it was mild enough eve seeing case or was it leering case?

Men are often victim when booked in ``seeing`` cases because they have to put off their marriages and start earning before tying knot. Under the circumstances they have no option but to keep ``seeing`` girls until they are officially allowed to see the girl who would be theirs officially. More and more men and women marry late.

I think so leering becomes problem when more than one man are involved. The fear here factor. In USA construction site workers indulge in it often accompanied by uttering sexual innuendoes. One veteran construction site worker who was also a veteran eve teaser said it quickens up the walk of women and makes them look even more beautiful.

I do not know how frequently such experiences become something more than just leering and innuendo, but important element in these seems to be composure of women and rebuff which women are supposed to show. Composure shows that they are untouched by the experience and are not afraid. And rebuff says to guys to bugger off.

I like Ashok`s idea of desensitizing by controlled meeting of both sexes. In India there are Hindu festivals when women stay awake whole night and fast. There is one Gujarati festival in which a sister fasts until full moon shows up in sky at which sister seeks permission to either eat or play. If brother says play then sister have no option but to fast and play. Full moon day after Diwali is also a festival amongst Gujaratis.

Some of these can easily be pressed into service for doing double duty of bringing sexes together. In these get togethers there can be a lot of working together like cooking together, singing together etc. Recalling my childhood days as a Gujarati sometimes we boys and girls were included in all these but bringing us really together was still taboo. I think so in India (and I am sure also in Pakistan) lot of good quality opportunies of bringing young people together are criminally wasted.

I am sure men on this thread will agree that I am committing no blasphemy writing all these.

-ew

Tahmed,

There is such a shroud around the prison industrial system that one could argue that the envisoners of imprisonment have acheived an institutionalised torture system. You`ve heard the usual charges against the current prison system; that it is funded better than schools, that its filled with predominantly men of color, that the inmates are the perpetrators of blue collar crime/rape/murder/assault, that the free labor the inmates provide makes this system attractive to its proponents, that a prison provides jobs for the town it resides in. The lives of the inmates are the last thing that seems to be on mainstream`s mind.
A few thoughts come to mind: that DNA testing has exonerated many men who were incarcerated -even the Central Park Jogger`s ``wilding`` rape case is being re-examined-this case was exposed about a year ago in the alternative press and I predict much more guano is going to hit the fan soon; the cases of Muslim men who have been wrongfully imprisoned post 9/11 are getting released and so that should raise some issues about psychological torture (its being reported that prisoners were fed pork 3 times a day), etc. The story of the 20 year old being raped is a shameful one, an unjust criminal act against a minor offender-you`ve got to wonder what is going on at these places. I`ll bet its a lot worse than we suspect.
I was reading something about a former Cabinet member`s new book on Animal Rights (which I support, btw) and the litmus test for how humans INNATELY are aware of brutality taking place: if you have to avert your eyes, you are in the presence of evil...

Saminasha #54 It is interesting how jail rapes are treated more like a cultural joke in the US, rather than the serious issue that it is. I read about a 20 year old man who received a short jail sentence on a traffic violation, was raped and got aids. And in places like Pakistan the issue never even makes it to the radar screen of newspapers. I think this silence is a result of the shame felt by the victim on the one hand who chose to keep quiet rather than receive further humiliation, and the lack of concern for the fate of prisoners among the general public on the other.
Once, when visiting an African country, I returned from dinner at an outside restaurant to find the hotel I was staying in surrounded by police. Seems like a young female staff member of an aid agency was assaulted in her room just a couple of hours back. She was quietly escorted out of the country the next day by someone from her embassy. The local press reported about the country`s minister expressing his regrets that she did not wish to stay and help identify the perpetrator. Knowing the prevalence of aids in that country, I wondered for a long time what that young person must have gone through in terms of trauma and shame and on top of that the fear of aids.
Such incidents (and I am sure they are repeated countless times every day around the world) make one wonder at how much horror some people have to go through which never raises emotions on places like chowk like a handful of meaningless political issues.

Thanks to everyone for their comments on this piece. It is the first under the new column, and as such I was very excited. Please continue giving me your feedback, and feel free to get in touch with me at: bina@chowk.com.

I realize the problem I am writing about is just the tip of the iceberg, and the abuse and exploitation is not just restricted to Pakistan. Nor do I support the banning of cable or the Internet; I was just stating one of the effects of the availability of sexually charged material on both mediums.

As to my ideas of how to solve this problem, I support the manner the UAE authorities have tackled it. Once in Dubai my sister told me that two Asian women were walking down the street and an Arab in a car was following them and harassing them verbally. One of the women whipped out a mobile phone, called the police, and within minutes the roadside Romeo was on his way to jail. A stiff fine should finish the deal nicely.

Tahmed,
Actually, the kinds of assaults that take place in incarceration are indeed horrible. I can`t imagine how dehumanizing the hierarchical inmate structures must be- and how much these hierarchies mirror the administration/guards/etc. To allow that kind of abuse to occur is unconscienable.

I was a bit shocked reading about male-male workplace harrassment. Do you watch the show Scrubs? Part of the humor of the show for me was how the narrator/residency doctor was spoken to by his immediate aupervisor who would call him girl names. After I read the article, I was like, hmmm....Then then the writers started changing the tenor of the jokes; ie the intern gets called ``Bambi`` by all of the residents of all gender...so the writers seem to really understand that fine line of hostility and camp..

sexual harassment is, as Ras says in his post #36, a more serious problem than people realize. And saminasha #40 is right in that it is not restricted to harassment of women only. Saminasha #40 refers to harassment of men (by other men, and in at least a couple of cases that have gone to court, by their women bosses) in the US workplace. There is no doubt some of that going on. Much more widespread is the sexual assault of men in US jails. I understand this is true in jails around the world (AIDS is an epidemic in Russian jails, e.g.).
This brings us to Pakistan, where bad things are not spoken about in polite society. I have no doubt that sexual assaults are at least as common in Pakistani jails as in jails across the world. Public schools and male dorms are another place where homosexuality is a common theme, and in many cases it is in the form of sexual assault. Domestic servants in Pakistan are another unspoken of source of abuse of young children in the homes they work in. The list goes on...
Harassment of women on the street is just the tip of the iceberg.

studebaker #47 The comma certainly makes it a more meaningful sentence. Your meaning is still unclear. Way the sentence reads (with the comma added) is that even though arabs done devour indian culture like we pakistanis do, yet we fall for ``it``. What is this damned ``it``? Is ``it`` the harassment of women that is the subject of this article?? If that is the case, then you are saying that arabs also harass women even though they are not influenced by Indian movies.
If that is the case though, then it seems that you are agreeing with me in criticizing tipu for using indian movies as an excuse for the low class behavior of some men on the street in pakistan.
Now please dont tell me I am wrong and by ``it`` you meant something else...

…bina, glad to see such a no-holds barred article on this topic…living here all the years that i have, i guess i’ve been lucky enough to escape with just the odd lewd comment or two (apart form the omnipresent leering)…smt that i found that helps is staring right back at the a$$hole appraising you like livestock…i take great comfort in watching surprise register in their faces at being eyeballed back…more often than not they’ll drop their eyes first…the smallest victories...:)

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Studebaker #43 Is this nick from the automobile?? Or did you have it before that??