The Endangered Species

Ref sridhar #12

[Haryana now has an adverse female to male ratio. Haryanvi grooms have a problem at hand. They simply can`t find a girl anymore from their own caste/ region, it seems. Project this problem on a national scale and we know what India is heading for.]

A fair guess would be real-life circle jerks as opposed to the metaphorical ones Indians indulge in when they attempt to tackle problems like this.

By the way, there is a Federal law in India that prohibits fetal sex determination for the purpose of foeticide -- a law that is widely observed in the breach.

Ref sameerJB #40

[There is no easy solution except educating people against the evil and sub human treatment of females. Outlawing dowry could be the single largest step in this direction but saying this is easy than enforcing. Second step could be enforcing each child entitled to equal inheritance. All this requires women empowerment and liberal education.]

India has laws against dowry as well as a law that limits the number of guests at a wedding -- the latter law was passed in an era of droughts and food shortages and probably has never been repealed. I attended quite a few weddings in Chennai in the last couple of months. I can tell you that the average middle-class wedding today costs in excess of Rs. 500,000. Oh, the grooms were all well-educated and settled in life with nice jobs and the girls all had college degrees. But it is now de riguer to put on an ostentatious wedding to tell the world that you can afford to do it.

The jewellery stores and silk merchants in Chennai are bursting at their seams with customers, what with Deepavali and the wedding season. The middle class is spending money today like water. The ones who are affected by this behaviour are the poor who are expected to ante up the dowry and put on a lavish wedding.

Something to be said for Jay and his folks in Kerala. A girl I know married a Nair guy. The wedding was over in 10 minutes. Breakfast before the wedding and a lunch afterwards. End of story. None of the day-land-a-half-long affair that is typical in Chennai with 300-600 guests for each meal service.

Godot,

Oh I know how to get the fire burning. Don`t forget to switch off the telly, mate. I can give it just as good as take it. Must be my writing `cos the blinker effect and extarpolations from some of these people is amazing.

Right now, I must buy some humus for the Islamic Society for the iftar. Jazakullah Khairun:)

Standby
Umer M.

Zafar#33
IMO, the dislike of the girl child is a combination of 2 things, 20th-century consumerism leading to widening prevalence of dowry practice and the Hindu tradition which specifies a son for performance of last rites.

2 generations ago, in my own community for instance, the exchanges between the brides and bridegrooms family were specific and ceremonial in nature, more token than substantial. And it was the father-in-law who as the family head provided the gold and jewellery for the daughters-in-law in his family. The bond between the maternal and the married family of a woman was such that even if the woman died prematurely(as often happened in those days) and was replaced by a second wife, her maternal family would consider the new bride as their own daughter and continue to maintain all ceremonial obligations toward her and her children as if she was their own daughter.

Since those days, the down-payment dowry has become the fashion. Parents of daughters have to plan for this commerical transaction well in advance. The social relationship with all those who have eligible sons (and have been awaiting just such an encashment ever since the guy was born) and eventually their daughter`s in-laws has become a socially and financially degrading burden to be maintained. Add to that the fact that traditionally the son supports the parents not the daughter.

And if one can walk one`s daughter-in-law into a clinic and with a short procedure, avoid all this ..?

Great to see everyone in the debate. I think I`ll just play the fiddle while Rome burns. Next article will not have a feminist bent, I promise.

Samina#47
I donot recall ever being asked by anyone I knew to be a Muslim. Any particular reason for your query?

saminasha #47 I think my name tells strangers, acquaintances from south asia or the middle east that I am a muslim (westerners and orientals dont ask, i suspect because religion is not important to most people one meets in urban areas at least). So very few people have asked me this question, and i think nearly all from iran or the middle east. Of the few who asked, I have simply said yes, to which the response has been a ``ma`ashallah`` or ``alhamdulillah`` as if had just won an olympic gold medal.
Now that you mention it, next time someone from the middle east asks this question, I think I will raise my right eyebrow (hard to do, but possible with some practice), and give my best ``stupid answer to stupid questions``, e.g.:
a. No. I am a muslimbaugh. These are the conservatives (i.e. the Rush Limbaugh`s) of the muslim world.
b. No. I am a hindu. My mom and pop thought it would be cool to give me a muslim name.
c. No. I am a born again shinto who is a buddhist on the job (i.e. sits and meditates when he should be doing what he is paid to do) and a mormon during prayer (i.e. I pray for many wives).
d. Yes. How did you guess?? I thought I was the only man on this planet with the last name ``Ahmed``.

re: ajeet

{Change this story a little bit. What if the boy is muslim and he is marrying a hindu girl, who is converting to Islam. What would be you advice to her? what would be your advice to the boy? }

...that`s a familiar story...we all know how that cookie crumbles, so no need to ask...

saminashah

.......... i am a cultural muslim and a philosphical buddhist - but if you have a hundred bucks i can be whatever you want me to be ........ of course mrs hamidm gets concerned that about her nikah being valid, so i have to assure her that i am a devout sunni with a few bad habits and hope that the god of the godless forgives me for blasphemy - i mean well ......... technically, i guess, i am one of those hypocrites that the koran warns us about ..........but of course one cannot say, ``i am a Hypocrite`` ........... doesn`t sound right - does it?

What kind of rubbish this whole story about convesion is? Loving parents do not want to leave the graves of their dead children and here Umer is perhaps wishing her parents to disown a walking talking normal child just because she might step into a temple once a week or name her son Ashok instead of Ashik or something in Persian or Arabic.
If there is any spec of truth in this story and parents infact going that far, I say shame on such parents who consider their myths more important than the happiness of their daughter.
You do not have the slightest idea good parents mean. In many native american tribal religions, birth of a child was considered death of father as a man, meaning that now he will only live to raise the child. Go see parents who drive 80s model Honda so that their daughter can get 2002 Honda and able to go through college. Go see parents who wear Wal-Mart brands so that they can afford Macy`s and Bloomingdale`s stuff for their children. People who involve in murdering their own daughter in the name of honor killing or disowning a daughter for converting because she considers this a minor sacrifice for the sake of happiness do not deserve to be called parents.

Umer I will have my go as well. I agree with rsridhar that there really is not any way or ritual by which you can convert to Hinduism. Really it would be great if you could tell us how did she actually convert, if you know about it. From what little I know, she needn`t have converted to Hinduism if all she wanted was to marry a Hindu guy. I think her getting married would have been good enough to make her a Hindu, and again if that was only the reason why she converted. But unlike others I really don`t have any problem with you saying her what you felt as long as you did not force her to do anything she did not want to do. You told your friend what you felt about her situation, and that`s perfectly fine, in fact many times better than gupshuping behind her back.

Umer Murtaza,

I don`t think you were justified in confronting the girl, esp. if you weren`t good friends with her. However, I agree with the fact that she should be completely honest with her parents. If she is living with them, has their trust, and trusts them....there is no point in hiding. She wouldn`t want her parents to hide important decisions from her. Its not just a room and board situation, we`re talking about family. If you live with them, you owe them the truth.

UmerMurtaza

hehehehe...you and your big fat mouth!!! They`ll make you sorry for what you wrote about you and your friend!!! Let`s see how you dodge these swinging ``liberal`` dundas!!! I`m getting my six-pack of Bud (nah, make it a case) and pulling my chair up front to watch this! This ought to be fun!

As a side question to Sameer, Noor, Hamid, Tahmed, Scout, Rsax, Prem, Sadna, Zafar,

What do you say to a Muslim who asks you what religion you are?
a. If they are a stranger
b. If they are acquaintances

UmerMurtaza (#38)

Change this story a little bit. What if the boy is muslim and he is marrying a hindu girl, who is converting to Islam. What would be you advice to her? what would be your advice to the boy?

Sameer, Tahmed and others,

Social changes in society are very difficult to bring about with legislation.
One reason is the people enforcing the law are from the same society and are therefore reluctant to enforce such laws. The police and other law enforcement forces have other things to do, and such laws stay on the books, without doing much good.

The thing that brings about the reform is the change in attitude, and there is no greater motivation for change of attitude than economics. In spite of all the laws against caste system, it is still practiced in the rural areas, where there is no economic incentive to change. However when the same rural people migrate to cities, they cannot practice the caste system, because economically it will not make sense. If you can barely afford a decent a living space, you will hardly worry what is the caste of your next door neighbor. Similarly you can hardly control who is sitting next to you on the public transportation.

IMHO, the change in the attitude towards the female child will come and I think it is already coming when they are not perceived to be a liability, and that will happen when economically they are at par with the sons.

umer #38

.......and what gives you the right to say anything to this girl? ......... butt out ! ..... it is none of your business if she converts to hindooism or buddhism or whatever ..........it is between her and her god(s) and, for that matter, it is none of her parent`s business either as long as she is making A`s and doesn`t collect parking tickets and is not doing drugs and doesn`t run around telling people how to live their lives ............. and i say this as the father of two girls who never tire of telling me, `` abu, you don`t know anything`` ...... and if i don`t know anything, i will be darned if i let some zit-faced runny nosed sophmore tell my kids what to do ......... the problem with some folks is that they think they have the right to tell other people how to live their lives because they have nothing better to do with their own miserable existence ...........upholding traditions- horse puckey!