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shanez1: you brought a good point to discussion. There is a very valid question that what happens when a gay man marries due to social pressure. (we can assume that without social pressure he`d not want to marry or if he does he`s at least bisexual or in denial)

I have also heard of the complications people get into when gay men (the topic being restricted to gay men), marry and have children for `society`s sake`. The guy is not happy, the girl is not who he wants to be with, both of them are eventually unhappy. Besides the married guy over time may have affairs with men - which only makes the situation worse for both and not better.

What you said shanzeh1 was sad, the guy resorted to beating, and other forms of abuse. Abuse is abuse, whether it comes from a gay guy or a straight guy. But because of this we can`t assume that the guy turned abusive because he was gay and married to this woman (maybe he would have been abusive if he`d lived with a guy too? maybe not). Nor can we assume that All gay men who marry women end up being abusive. And I think shanezh1 you agree on this. I`m just elaborating, because this seems to be one thing that bothers other people too.

adnan_rafiq: I know gay men who have been pressured to get married, and they have resisted. Believe me it`s not easy, it`s draining, parents and relatives use all the emotions they can find and it`s not easy for the guy to keep saying - i just dont` want to get married, because in our culture - people naturally assume that `something is wrong` when someone (man or woman) does not want to marry and has not had any obvious visible contact with a person of the opposite sex. No?
Also, as discussed in this article to some degree, coming out to friends and family is not easy either. Given so many misconceptions - gay men assume they are better off in the closet than outside, and some of the time rightly so.

tahmed32: I must say that I respect that you`re openly expressing your opinion - most people would not.

And I know that there are others on this board who find the idea of sex between two men not acceptable. I`ve met people too, who openly state that `look I don`t care for what they do, as long as I don`t know about it`. I am trying to figure out why is the preference of some other fellow human beings repulsive to some people. Why do people get so worked up about this?

The argument that `it`s not natural` is too easy. There are other things that are not `natural` that may not repulse us. We`re talking about (gay or straight) sex between two consenting adults. For example, personally bondage and all the other S&M stuff at the most scares me, and at the very least I`m neutral about and know for sure that I will never be a part of something like that - because it does not click for me (no funny comments from rsaxena, stuka or any other guy on this!).

#85 by freesoul

{This is as much girl`s fault as man`s fault. y should a girl be stupid enough to marry a man who is gay? And why should she suffer ater she knows he is gay? is she not educated? }

how can she know beofre marriage, if someone not going to tell her?

You are right for after marriage thing, but getting divorced....ummmm....., still scoiety not going to believe her if gay man denies it. and its not easy for a divorcee woman to get marry again.the second important thing is children, if they hav children then hav to sacrifice......
[And y should a gay man marry a girl? r gays not MEN enough to stand up to pressure}

I guess its only easy to say......not every one can take society`s pressure specially living in muslim society.

tahmed#83

In the immortal words of lajwantii...i am a fried don otan geryes?
The sooner you get off your high horse the better for all of us.As for
one liners...haven`t got enough ``wisdom`` to pontificate like most of the interactors ;)

#72 by shanzeh1

>>>Why do poor girls have to pay for their husbands` problems and for our so-called society`s lack of effort to even understand what makes a man gay. On top of the many problems that Pakistani girls face every day of their lives, they now have to wonder whether or not their future spouse IS GAY. This is neither the man`s fault....or the girl`s fault. This is society`s fault. <<<<


Actually, it is becoming fashionable to blame society, and start puffing cigs in unaffected manner.

This is as much girl`s fault as man`s fault. y should a girl be stupid enough to marry a man who is gay? And why should she suffer ater she knows he is gay? is she not educated?

And y should a gay man marry a girl? r gays not MEN enough to stand up to pressure?

It is time we start looking into mirror before blaming some vague culprit (society)

Reply sac #64

``This field requires your eminence to shed some light. I`ve been told that desis don`t do it............................... ``

What a relief! I thought it was just me...

khamkhwa #81 ``how about replying to #63,#68 and #78.``
On #78 from ramis: I accept charges that I spelled ``urdu`` as ``utdu``, and am ready to jump in a river to kill myself out of shame for this typo.
I also admit guilty to considering NJ to be a jerk, and to having also criticized his communication skills. Can I have a last cigarette before being executed?
On #68 and #78 from you: I must admit being too lazy to go back to read what you wrote. I know you write some one-liners (and commend you for that, which is better than what most of us including myself do), and I am sure you are right in whatever you wrote. Give yourself a pat in the back for being right and for being brief.

tahmed#80
[I am learning a lot today.]

Good! how about replying to #63,#68 and #78.

sac #71 I knew a paki midget (or close enough - he was 5 foot 1 inch) who got more dates than he could handle. He explained (to the rest of us who were then single and therefore could only watch enviously as he cleaned out the chicken coop) the reason in one word: kinky.
So dont underestimate the subconscious yearnings a shiny head brings out in some women.

stuka #74 Your argument (guys dont need foreplay) is the first acceptable argument in favor of the gay school of thought (or the peshawar school of thought, as it is known in pakistan) that I have heard.

shanzeh1 #72 That argument (gays who are married in pakistan due to social pressures, and then proceed to take their frustrations out on their wives) is the second acceptable argument for accepting gays for what they are in soceity that I have heard.
Also, urstruly`s argument (bald guys are aerodynamic, with umarmurtaza performing a scientific experiment to prove the thesis) is the first acceptable argument for accepting bald guys for what they are in society that I have heard.
I am learning a lot today.

re: shanzeh1
[ ... This is neither the man`s fault....or the girl`s fault. This is society`s fault. ...]

And all this time I was under the impression that society consists of men and women. I`m sorry, but if someone`s gay, and he knowingly marries a girl then he should be the first one to blame. Unlike women in our culture, a man can refuse to get married and still lead an independent and financially secure life. And trust me, after a while, people will stop hounding him to tie the knot; a luxury very few women are afforded.

Urstruly,

Regarding your comment #75, that`s so right. I can do 100 meters in just over 12 seconds.

Tahmed,

The lions in Mozambique are very aggressive and eat humans for lunch. They also happen to be bald and tests on them show that they have very high levels of testosterone. sac is prolly just jealous `cos he`s got long hair growing out of his nostrils also :)

Umer M.

#73 by tahmed32

uor message prove you more jerk then NJ. How low one could be to comment someone`s comunication skills:)

and its not (utdu) , its Urdu .

stop jerking and get a life.

One great advantage that bald people have over `normal` people is that they are relatively more aerodynamic.

Tidbit:

``dont mean to presumptuous but figures show tht gays are more promiscuous?? ``

ya, that`s coz gay sex involves two guys...and all guys are horndogs regardless if they are gay or straight...guys will f#ck anyone..women have hangups on ``being in love etc`` before having sex, so less sex :(

I feel this is a very relevant discussion for Pakistanis today. I know of many gay men who are married to decent Pakistani girls simply because of social reasons: to save their family name, to make their parents happy, etc etc. One girl I know has been married to a gay man for the past 6 years. Out of sheer frustration, this man started beating her.....this is on top of spending nights out of the house, being openly gay, bringing shame to HER family, making her act like his doll so he could play dress up with her, and other really weird things. Shouldn`t society realize the repercussions of making gay men marry? Why do poor girls have to pay for their husbands` problems and for our so-called society`s lack of effort to even understand what makes a man gay. On top of the many problems that Pakistani girls face every day of their lives, they now have to wonder whether or not their future spouse IS GAY. This is neither the man`s fault....or the girl`s fault. This is society`s fault. And I thank NJ for making ppl think about this......