Closet

Also,

Is it not a fact that every person is neither 100% hetro or homosexual. Based on genes and social factors, one side can be dominant and the other repressed or comatose. So what is so strange, if a guy prefers a girl for marriage and then explores other options? If it does not happen much (and hence all the blame on such orientation-confused ppl), then maybe social repression is one factor here.

Its really hard to beleive that despite being homosexuals..these ppl marry to the opposite sex and destroy two lives at the sametime. If they think that they cannot face the society by disclosing that they are homosexual..atleast they can stand for themselves..and say that they would lead a bachelor life...don`t they have any sense at all?...how do ppl make such an imp decision of live a game...I seriously pity those innocent girls..

OK, First up...

I guess it was rather presumptuous of me so here`s a clarrification! Norm McDonald is a comedian. The weekend update is a segment on Saturday Night Live. The `poll` was a joke!

Secondly...

Freesoul, knowing fully well that this is a slippery slope let me offer you that there is a significant difference between getting a rim job and having an object of substantial diameter thrust up your Kit and Kibbutle.

Straight men cringe neither at the thought of thier anus being stimulated nor at the prospect of inserting their thingie up another carbon based life form`s back door. They cringe simply at the grim prospect of being at the business end of this rather painful maneuver. And this cringing I reckon they`re very well entitled to.

tahmed: check out the links on nice guys finish last wala board chaathouse parr...

#96 by temporal

u should read my relies twise. First time did not have much effect on u, i guess.

Not all women r illiterate and poor. If an educated working woman do let their lives manipulated by others than their share of blame is far greater than any illiterate poor woman. But everyone is responsible for the acts hes/he wither committed and/or willingly let others commit on themselves.

Is it too difficult to understand?

#94 by freesoul

[``Anal Stimulation and Intercourse: Because the anus has many nerve endings, it can produce intense erotic responses. Both homosexual and heterosexual couples use stimulation of the anus....``]

and

[``I think many ppl show their disgust to anal pleasures on moral (read religous) and traditional grounds. If ppl r open to new things and courageously challenge their biases, the poll result would be quite different.``]

Freesoul bhai saab, interesting thought indeed. I think the ultimate gift that a woman (the feminazi type) can offer a man is her tight, pulsating anus. However, all women that I have known are not ``open`` to the idea of enjoying ``anal pleasures`` i.e not willing to ``challenge their baises`` :-( so backward and non-progressive of them :-(

Have you met any progressive chicks lately?

(submission follows these two quotes)

#85 by freesoul:

Actually, it is becoming fashionable to blame society, and start puffing cigs in unaffected manner.

This is as much girl`s fault as man`s fault. y should a girl be stupid enough to marry a man who is gay? And why should she suffer ater she knows he is gay? is she not educated?

It is time we start looking into mirror before blaming some vague culprit (society)

and

#95 by freesoul:

I just want to say that `dont make society as a villian`. What society is? It is nothing but a general manifestation of all of us. if an educated girl is dumb enough to marry a starnger, then she is answerable to none but herself if her hubby turns out gay, impotent, abusive, or alcoholic. Some risks r always worth taking, but major issues on which the marriage stands, can not be just God to manipulate.

I am sick and tired of ppl projecting educated women as victims in all such cases. No one is victim. We all contribute to rigidity of society in one way or other. If we do not have the courage to challenge biases and traditions, we should all weep at the corner, and not some public form. This is unacceptable victim mentality.


(taking some deep breaths…)


freesoul sahib:


which society are you talking about? Surely it cannot be Pakistani society…where the majority of people are uneducated and women are treated just a tad above chattel status…where the young women succumb to economic and societal pressures …and marrying the two-legged animal paraded before her…

(since this whole discussion has been generated by this article…and the author is trying to highlight the plight of homosexuals in that country…you cannot jump countries or societies and blare about other far off places…

next time before you misinterpret shanzeh1 or navaid or feel `sick and tired` may i be audacious enough to repeat here your wise words that perhaps you wrote but did not fully comprehend?

It is time we start looking into mirror before blaming some vague culprit (society)

regards,

t

tahmed saab,
carry on.......

Tidbit #90 That face sticking its tongue is neat. How do you do it?

khamkhwa #87 ``The sooner you get off your high horse the better for all of us.``
What exactly is it that I am writing that troubles you so much. Please cut and paste, and if possible explain how that puts me on a high horse. I will be much obliged.

#89 by the_happy_one

From a sex education book:

``Anal Stimulation and Intercourse: Because the anus has many nerve endings, it can produce intense erotic responses. Both homosexual and heterosexual couples use stimulation of the anus by fingers or mouth as a source of sexual arousal and engage in penile penetration of the anus...``

I think many ppl show their disgust to anal pleasures on moral (read religous) and traditional grounds. If ppl r open to new things and courageously challenge their biases, the poll result would be quite different.

#86 by nawaid

I just want to say that `dont make society as a villian`. What society is? It is nothing but a general manifestation of all of us. if an educated girl is dumb enough to marry a starnger, then she is answerable to none but herself if her hubby turns out gay, impotent, abusive, or alcoholic. Some risks r always worth taking, but major issues on which the marriage stands, can not be just God to manipulate.

I am sick and tired of ppl projecting educated women as victims in all such cases. No one is victim. We all contribute to rigidity of society in one way or other. If we do not have the courage to challenge biases and traditions, we should all weep at the corner, and not some public form. This is unacceptable victim mentality.

the_happy_one #89
Your post explained some things I did not consider. The poll figure you quoted was interesting.

Re: Brat (66)

Some people think that extreme homophobia exhibited by ostentatiously heterosexual men towards gay men is a violent manifestation of latent homosexuality within themselves. These are typically religious men who are over-ridden with guilt driven into them by their pastors who eloquently tee off on gays every Sunday. Remember the Mathew Shepard case in Laramie Wyoming?

But then there is ‘natural’ disgust too. I think this is quite forgivable considering all that is involved in an act of anal sex. The disgust is not simply due to the thought of two people of the same gender engaging in a sexual act, I don’t know any man who’s ‘disgusted’ with two lipstick lesbians going at each other. It’s the anal sex that is disgusting to some people.

Reminds me of a famous Norm McDonald quip from his days at the helm of weekend update and it went something like this:
“In a recent survey it was found that 85% of Americans have no objection to gay relationships. When reminded however that gay relationships often involve anal penetration, the number dropped sharply to 25%”.

mastram2: interesting point...though i still think `condemned by society` wala rule applies...

stuka:

shanez1: you brought a good point to discussion. There is a very valid question that what happens when a gay man marries due to social pressure. (we can assume that without social pressure he`d not want to marry or if he does he`s at least bisexual or in denial)

I have also heard of the complications people get into when gay men (the topic being restricted to gay men), marry and have children for `society`s sake`. The guy is not happy, the girl is not who he wants to be with, both of them are eventually unhappy. Besides the married guy over time may have affairs with men - which only makes the situation worse for both and not better.

What you said shanzeh1 was sad, the guy resorted to beating, and other forms of abuse. Abuse is abuse, whether it comes from a gay guy or a straight guy. But because of this we can`t assume that the guy turned abusive because he was gay and married to this woman (maybe he would have been abusive if he`d lived with a guy too? maybe not). Nor can we assume that All gay men who marry women end up being abusive. And I think shanezh1 you agree on this. I`m just elaborating, because this seems to be one thing that bothers other people too.

adnan_rafiq: I know gay men who have been pressured to get married, and they have resisted. Believe me it`s not easy, it`s draining, parents and relatives use all the emotions they can find and it`s not easy for the guy to keep saying - i just dont` want to get married, because in our culture - people naturally assume that `something is wrong` when someone (man or woman) does not want to marry and has not had any obvious visible contact with a person of the opposite sex. No?
Also, as discussed in this article to some degree, coming out to friends and family is not easy either. Given so many misconceptions - gay men assume they are better off in the closet than outside, and some of the time rightly so.

tahmed32: I must say that I respect that you`re openly expressing your opinion - most people would not.

And I know that there are others on this board who find the idea of sex between two men not acceptable. I`ve met people too, who openly state that `look I don`t care for what they do, as long as I don`t know about it`. I am trying to figure out why is the preference of some other fellow human beings repulsive to some people. Why do people get so worked up about this?

The argument that `it`s not natural` is too easy. There are other things that are not `natural` that may not repulse us. We`re talking about (gay or straight) sex between two consenting adults. For example, personally bondage and all the other S&M stuff at the most scares me, and at the very least I`m neutral about and know for sure that I will never be a part of something like that - because it does not click for me (no funny comments from rsaxena, stuka or any other guy on this!).