Closet

sac #71 I knew a paki midget (or close enough - he was 5 foot 1 inch) who got more dates than he could handle. He explained (to the rest of us who were then single and therefore could only watch enviously as he cleaned out the chicken coop) the reason in one word: kinky.
So dont underestimate the subconscious yearnings a shiny head brings out in some women.

tahmed#80
[I am learning a lot today.]

Good! how about replying to #63,#68 and #78.

khamkhwa #81 ``how about replying to #63,#68 and #78.``
On #78 from ramis: I accept charges that I spelled ``urdu`` as ``utdu``, and am ready to jump in a river to kill myself out of shame for this typo.
I also admit guilty to considering NJ to be a jerk, and to having also criticized his communication skills. Can I have a last cigarette before being executed?
On #68 and #78 from you: I must admit being too lazy to go back to read what you wrote. I know you write some one-liners (and commend you for that, which is better than what most of us including myself do), and I am sure you are right in whatever you wrote. Give yourself a pat in the back for being right and for being brief.

Reply sac #64

``This field requires your eminence to shed some light. I`ve been told that desis don`t do it............................... ``

What a relief! I thought it was just me...

#72 by shanzeh1

>>>Why do poor girls have to pay for their husbands` problems and for our so-called society`s lack of effort to even understand what makes a man gay. On top of the many problems that Pakistani girls face every day of their lives, they now have to wonder whether or not their future spouse IS GAY. This is neither the man`s fault....or the girl`s fault. This is society`s fault. <<<<


Actually, it is becoming fashionable to blame society, and start puffing cigs in unaffected manner.

This is as much girl`s fault as man`s fault. y should a girl be stupid enough to marry a man who is gay? And why should she suffer ater she knows he is gay? is she not educated?

And y should a gay man marry a girl? r gays not MEN enough to stand up to pressure?

It is time we start looking into mirror before blaming some vague culprit (society)

tahmed#83

In the immortal words of lajwantii...i am a fried don otan geryes?
The sooner you get off your high horse the better for all of us.As for
one liners...haven`t got enough ``wisdom`` to pontificate like most of the interactors ;)

#85 by freesoul

{This is as much girl`s fault as man`s fault. y should a girl be stupid enough to marry a man who is gay? And why should she suffer ater she knows he is gay? is she not educated? }

how can she know beofre marriage, if someone not going to tell her?

You are right for after marriage thing, but getting divorced....ummmm....., still scoiety not going to believe her if gay man denies it. and its not easy for a divorcee woman to get marry again.the second important thing is children, if they hav children then hav to sacrifice......
[And y should a gay man marry a girl? r gays not MEN enough to stand up to pressure}

I guess its only easy to say......not every one can take society`s pressure specially living in muslim society.

shanez1: you brought a good point to discussion. There is a very valid question that what happens when a gay man marries due to social pressure. (we can assume that without social pressure he`d not want to marry or if he does he`s at least bisexual or in denial)

I have also heard of the complications people get into when gay men (the topic being restricted to gay men), marry and have children for `society`s sake`. The guy is not happy, the girl is not who he wants to be with, both of them are eventually unhappy. Besides the married guy over time may have affairs with men - which only makes the situation worse for both and not better.

What you said shanzeh1 was sad, the guy resorted to beating, and other forms of abuse. Abuse is abuse, whether it comes from a gay guy or a straight guy. But because of this we can`t assume that the guy turned abusive because he was gay and married to this woman (maybe he would have been abusive if he`d lived with a guy too? maybe not). Nor can we assume that All gay men who marry women end up being abusive. And I think shanezh1 you agree on this. I`m just elaborating, because this seems to be one thing that bothers other people too.

adnan_rafiq: I know gay men who have been pressured to get married, and they have resisted. Believe me it`s not easy, it`s draining, parents and relatives use all the emotions they can find and it`s not easy for the guy to keep saying - i just dont` want to get married, because in our culture - people naturally assume that `something is wrong` when someone (man or woman) does not want to marry and has not had any obvious visible contact with a person of the opposite sex. No?
Also, as discussed in this article to some degree, coming out to friends and family is not easy either. Given so many misconceptions - gay men assume they are better off in the closet than outside, and some of the time rightly so.

tahmed32: I must say that I respect that you`re openly expressing your opinion - most people would not.

And I know that there are others on this board who find the idea of sex between two men not acceptable. I`ve met people too, who openly state that `look I don`t care for what they do, as long as I don`t know about it`. I am trying to figure out why is the preference of some other fellow human beings repulsive to some people. Why do people get so worked up about this?

The argument that `it`s not natural` is too easy. There are other things that are not `natural` that may not repulse us. We`re talking about (gay or straight) sex between two consenting adults. For example, personally bondage and all the other S&M stuff at the most scares me, and at the very least I`m neutral about and know for sure that I will never be a part of something like that - because it does not click for me (no funny comments from rsaxena, stuka or any other guy on this!).

mastram2: interesting point...though i still think `condemned by society` wala rule applies...

stuka:

Re: Brat (66)

Some people think that extreme homophobia exhibited by ostentatiously heterosexual men towards gay men is a violent manifestation of latent homosexuality within themselves. These are typically religious men who are over-ridden with guilt driven into them by their pastors who eloquently tee off on gays every Sunday. Remember the Mathew Shepard case in Laramie Wyoming?

But then there is ‘natural’ disgust too. I think this is quite forgivable considering all that is involved in an act of anal sex. The disgust is not simply due to the thought of two people of the same gender engaging in a sexual act, I don’t know any man who’s ‘disgusted’ with two lipstick lesbians going at each other. It’s the anal sex that is disgusting to some people.

Reminds me of a famous Norm McDonald quip from his days at the helm of weekend update and it went something like this:
“In a recent survey it was found that 85% of Americans have no objection to gay relationships. When reminded however that gay relationships often involve anal penetration, the number dropped sharply to 25%”.

the_happy_one #89
Your post explained some things I did not consider. The poll figure you quoted was interesting.

#86 by nawaid

I just want to say that `dont make society as a villian`. What society is? It is nothing but a general manifestation of all of us. if an educated girl is dumb enough to marry a starnger, then she is answerable to none but herself if her hubby turns out gay, impotent, abusive, or alcoholic. Some risks r always worth taking, but major issues on which the marriage stands, can not be just God to manipulate.

I am sick and tired of ppl projecting educated women as victims in all such cases. No one is victim. We all contribute to rigidity of society in one way or other. If we do not have the courage to challenge biases and traditions, we should all weep at the corner, and not some public form. This is unacceptable victim mentality.

#89 by the_happy_one

From a sex education book:

``Anal Stimulation and Intercourse: Because the anus has many nerve endings, it can produce intense erotic responses. Both homosexual and heterosexual couples use stimulation of the anus by fingers or mouth as a source of sexual arousal and engage in penile penetration of the anus...``

I think many ppl show their disgust to anal pleasures on moral (read religous) and traditional grounds. If ppl r open to new things and courageously challenge their biases, the poll result would be quite different.

khamkhwa #87 ``The sooner you get off your high horse the better for all of us.``
What exactly is it that I am writing that troubles you so much. Please cut and paste, and if possible explain how that puts me on a high horse. I will be much obliged.

Tidbit #90 That face sticking its tongue is neat. How do you do it?

tahmed saab,
carry on.......