Talha Jafri December 28, 2002
#15 Posted by keshto on January 9, 2003 12:26:37 pm
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#14 Posted by mbenzenglish on January 2, 2003 8:46:50 pm
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#13 Posted by talha on January 2, 2003 1:32:24 pm
hey guys,
after reading replies posted by certain individuals, it seems to me that they have started to argue as to whose Art form is the best. I didnt mean to say that Muslim calligraphy is the only calligraphy out there and it certainly does not mean that Muslims only have calligraphy and architecture as art. If you study Islamic Art u will find that Music, yes music ! has been developed and used by the muslims, especially by the muslim mystics or sufis. The meeting of Islamic Persian music and Indian classical music gave rise to a new type of Spiritual music, which the sufis used in India, Amir Khusro is a prime example, his music and lyrics are still used thru out the sbucontinent. The immense literature that was created during that time, by people such as Rumi, Saadi, Hafiz was and stilll is read widely by all people from all religions.
Art is the only way we humans can communicate and build bridges between religions and cultures. And India is one such example, where people such as Amir khusro brought people from all backgrounds together.
here is an example of Rumis Masnavi. Where God says to Moses.
``Ways of worshipping are not to be ranked as better
or worse than one another.
Hindus do Hindu things.
The Dravidian Muslims in India do what they do.
It`s all praise, and it`s all right.
It`s not Me that`s glorified in acts of worship.
It`s the worshippers! ...
Forget phraseology.
I want burning, burning.``
PEACE
after reading replies posted by certain individuals, it seems to me that they have started to argue as to whose Art form is the best. I didnt mean to say that Muslim calligraphy is the only calligraphy out there and it certainly does not mean that Muslims only have calligraphy and architecture as art. If you study Islamic Art u will find that Music, yes music ! has been developed and used by the muslims, especially by the muslim mystics or sufis. The meeting of Islamic Persian music and Indian classical music gave rise to a new type of Spiritual music, which the sufis used in India, Amir Khusro is a prime example, his music and lyrics are still used thru out the sbucontinent. The immense literature that was created during that time, by people such as Rumi, Saadi, Hafiz was and stilll is read widely by all people from all religions.
Art is the only way we humans can communicate and build bridges between religions and cultures. And India is one such example, where people such as Amir khusro brought people from all backgrounds together.
here is an example of Rumis Masnavi. Where God says to Moses.
``Ways of worshipping are not to be ranked as better
or worse than one another.
Hindus do Hindu things.
The Dravidian Muslims in India do what they do.
It`s all praise, and it`s all right.
It`s not Me that`s glorified in acts of worship.
It`s the worshippers! ...
Forget phraseology.
I want burning, burning.``
PEACE
#12 Posted by jay on January 1, 2003 11:21:30 pm
talha,
Calligraphy is from the greek, ``kalli`` means beautiful.
Calligraphy is from the greek, ``kalli`` means beautiful.
#11 Posted by Banjaara on January 1, 2003 1:00:01 pm
ilyaskhan#9
If you are looking for arab roots for calligraphy,how about arabesque?
While the medieval europe was practicing calligraphy from the 12th century onward, the muslims had already completed the Omayyad Mosque in Damuscas in 705 AD a difference of about 500 years.
If you are looking for arab roots for calligraphy,how about arabesque?
While the medieval europe was practicing calligraphy from the 12th century onward, the muslims had already completed the Omayyad Mosque in Damuscas in 705 AD a difference of about 500 years.
#10 Posted by jay on January 1, 2003 9:09:10 am
Post 7,
All that I maintain is that caligraphy became the prime art form in islamic societies because other forms of painting are banned. Claigraphy is essentially giving an artistic dimension to the letters. No doubt it ezisted in other cultures and was in addition to the paintings, but in islam only for permitted was caligraphy and it flourished.
There are famous claigraphers in islamic societies, but hardly any in other especially in indian languages.
All that I maintain is that caligraphy became the prime art form in islamic societies because other forms of painting are banned. Claigraphy is essentially giving an artistic dimension to the letters. No doubt it ezisted in other cultures and was in addition to the paintings, but in islam only for permitted was caligraphy and it flourished.
There are famous claigraphers in islamic societies, but hardly any in other especially in indian languages.
#9 Posted by ilyaskhan on December 31, 2002 7:44:20 pm
Bhai Banjaara,
Kis problem main par gaye ho bhai. As they say,little knowledge is dangerous, but in this case it is hilarious. Calligraphy has nothing to do with the supposed suppression of any other creative art-form. The very english word is not derived from any arab/muslim root (as chemistry, algebra etc) so obviously it described something in the european context. The medaevial europe wrote their books, especially holy bible, in beautiful calligraphic forms, and illuminated it with human-form and practised sculpture as well. So please dont spoil my fun I just had attending the Canterbury Catheral new year service while visiting Kent university. Before you start condemning me, I went/ was invited inspite of declaring myself and declining holy communion. I went for sheer drama and enjoyment of spiritual music and, er, calligrapy!!!
Kis problem main par gaye ho bhai. As they say,little knowledge is dangerous, but in this case it is hilarious. Calligraphy has nothing to do with the supposed suppression of any other creative art-form. The very english word is not derived from any arab/muslim root (as chemistry, algebra etc) so obviously it described something in the european context. The medaevial europe wrote their books, especially holy bible, in beautiful calligraphic forms, and illuminated it with human-form and practised sculpture as well. So please dont spoil my fun I just had attending the Canterbury Catheral new year service while visiting Kent university. Before you start condemning me, I went/ was invited inspite of declaring myself and declining holy communion. I went for sheer drama and enjoyment of spiritual music and, er, calligrapy!!!
#8 Posted by Banjaara on December 31, 2002 3:43:10 pm
Jay is absolutely correct when he says that islam does not permit the drawing of human form,but in our hatred for him,we refuse to accept the truth.Throughout history, man has expressed himself through,drama,
dance,music,poetry and painting.The early muslims found the doors closed for their aesthetic expression.An outlet was found,and it was expressed in the mosque architecture.
When this was perfected,it needed to be adorned to make it attractive to the eye.The resultant art form was calligraphy,which was intricately used around the niche (mehrab) and the main prayer room.The most ornate calligraphy is seen in the Omayyad Mosque,Damuscus, The Mausoleum of Imam Reza in Meshed and the Dome of Rock in Palestine.
The architectural growth in islam later expressed it self in City Planning,Palaces,Mausoleums and Citadels from 11th century onwards which are a silent witness to their creative genius even today.Another art form perfected by the muslim artisans was the Victory Towers which were influenced by the Ziggurat of the central asia under the Hittites and the finest example is the Qutb Minar in Delhi.
The muslims also perfected the Arch and the Dome which had been developed by the Greeks and the Romans in the preceding millennia.
In the second milleneum,the muslim art with human form developed in Iran and peaked under the Safavids and was introduced to the Mughal India in the reign of Humayun when two masters of miniature painting from Iran including Ustad Mansoor were brought to the court to teach the local artists the intricacies of the miniature painting.
This art form later developed into the Mughal and the Rajputana schools of miniature painting.The subject under the mughal school revolved around the Court life,whereas the Rajputana school depicted the romance of Lord Krihsna and The Gopis, and also scenes of every day life.
Apologies for the digression.
dance,music,poetry and painting.The early muslims found the doors closed for their aesthetic expression.An outlet was found,and it was expressed in the mosque architecture.
When this was perfected,it needed to be adorned to make it attractive to the eye.The resultant art form was calligraphy,which was intricately used around the niche (mehrab) and the main prayer room.The most ornate calligraphy is seen in the Omayyad Mosque,Damuscus, The Mausoleum of Imam Reza in Meshed and the Dome of Rock in Palestine.
The architectural growth in islam later expressed it self in City Planning,Palaces,Mausoleums and Citadels from 11th century onwards which are a silent witness to their creative genius even today.Another art form perfected by the muslim artisans was the Victory Towers which were influenced by the Ziggurat of the central asia under the Hittites and the finest example is the Qutb Minar in Delhi.
The muslims also perfected the Arch and the Dome which had been developed by the Greeks and the Romans in the preceding millennia.
In the second milleneum,the muslim art with human form developed in Iran and peaked under the Safavids and was introduced to the Mughal India in the reign of Humayun when two masters of miniature painting from Iran including Ustad Mansoor were brought to the court to teach the local artists the intricacies of the miniature painting.
This art form later developed into the Mughal and the Rajputana schools of miniature painting.The subject under the mughal school revolved around the Court life,whereas the Rajputana school depicted the romance of Lord Krihsna and The Gopis, and also scenes of every day life.
Apologies for the digression.
#7 Posted by ilyaskhan on December 31, 2002 8:18:01 am
Hey Jay
How would you describe all the calligraphic hindi/devnagri script signboards, not to talk of all stylized calligraphy of English words which look nagri script at first glance? Prime example roaming the world is Air India . Now what suppression makes them to paint their aircraft widows, each one of them, as mihrabs of Jamia Masjid in Delhi. Surely some musla conspiracy here, Jay ram bhai?
How would you describe all the calligraphic hindi/devnagri script signboards, not to talk of all stylized calligraphy of English words which look nagri script at first glance? Prime example roaming the world is Air India . Now what suppression makes them to paint their aircraft widows, each one of them, as mihrabs of Jamia Masjid in Delhi. Surely some musla conspiracy here, Jay ram bhai?
#6 Posted by jay on December 31, 2002 7:27:00 am
Umer 5,
Take it easy, why deviate from the topic, let the chow walas know the truth. Is it permitted in isalm to paint, create human forms. With out ant form of human forms, what will art be, at least for humans as we understand them.
A black massd in burkha might be the most beautiful human form for the muslims, but it is not for many. There are times when one has to tell the truth, art and islam is one of them. Caligraphy is the ultimate bastar///dis//ation of art form. In a society reastructed only to the book, the poor souls hand to find art in the wrirings which is essentiall only a mode , a set of symbol to communicate. Calling caligrahy an art is really pathetic, especially when that is the only one permitted.
Take it easy, why deviate from the topic, let the chow walas know the truth. Is it permitted in isalm to paint, create human forms. With out ant form of human forms, what will art be, at least for humans as we understand them.
A black massd in burkha might be the most beautiful human form for the muslims, but it is not for many. There are times when one has to tell the truth, art and islam is one of them. Caligraphy is the ultimate bastar///dis//ation of art form. In a society reastructed only to the book, the poor souls hand to find art in the wrirings which is essentiall only a mode , a set of symbol to communicate. Calling caligrahy an art is really pathetic, especially when that is the only one permitted.
#5 Posted by UmerMurtaza on December 30, 2002 1:18:02 pm
Dear Mr Jafri,
Allow me to introduce you to Jay. He is the resident BJPwallah who thinks that Taj Mahal, the thing people associate India with, was made by the engineer Gopi Krishanchand. Bwa hahahaha...
All forms of Art are banned!?! That is the dumbest statement I`ve heard for a long time.
Talha, I will say this that your article came across as a cut `n `paste job. It was as you were in a teaching room and we were the 7 year old students. I personally would have liked to hear more of jade stones being used to straighten the cotton sheets (pulp in the early days, I belive, wasn`t used) or inks being perfumed.
Jay is an engineer, he is no artist (though we all possess an aesthetic sense), and as an artist of a sort I can definitelly vouch for Islamic art. It is awesome and a real classy form of artistic expression.
Umer M.
Allow me to introduce you to Jay. He is the resident BJPwallah who thinks that Taj Mahal, the thing people associate India with, was made by the engineer Gopi Krishanchand. Bwa hahahaha...
All forms of Art are banned!?! That is the dumbest statement I`ve heard for a long time.
Talha, I will say this that your article came across as a cut `n `paste job. It was as you were in a teaching room and we were the 7 year old students. I personally would have liked to hear more of jade stones being used to straighten the cotton sheets (pulp in the early days, I belive, wasn`t used) or inks being perfumed.
Jay is an engineer, he is no artist (though we all possess an aesthetic sense), and as an artist of a sort I can definitelly vouch for Islamic art. It is awesome and a real classy form of artistic expression.
Umer M.
#4 Posted by jay on December 30, 2002 7:30:54 am
Talha,
Why cant you be truthful and say that all forms of art, especially the portrayal of living things is banned in islam. So the poor, bas///rds had to create a so callled art out of writing the ......you know what.
In china, it is an addition to their art forms, while in islam it is a cry of the human soul, denied of any artistic or even scientific expression. Everything is in the book, including art.
Why cant you be truthful and say that all forms of art, especially the portrayal of living things is banned in islam. So the poor, bas///rds had to create a so callled art out of writing the ......you know what.
In china, it is an addition to their art forms, while in islam it is a cry of the human soul, denied of any artistic or even scientific expression. Everything is in the book, including art.
#3 Posted by mbenzenglish on December 28, 2002 9:06:26 pm
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#2 Posted by ilyaskhan on December 28, 2002 4:23:50 pm
Dear mbenzenglish
I wonder why you spin every purely muslim cultural/aesthetic activity into a nightmarish scenario of possible coming armageddon . Your latest ramblings are of a bizzare blurred kind associated with you know what.
I wonder why you spin every purely muslim cultural/aesthetic activity into a nightmarish scenario of possible coming armageddon . Your latest ramblings are of a bizzare blurred kind associated with you know what.
#1 Posted by mbenzenglish on December 28, 2002 7:54:23 am
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