My Little Bit of Hindu

Shankar

Tell us a little about the Sikh community in Bombay...I dont know anything about it, except that there is a very important Gurudwara in Maharashtra called Hazoor Sahib which is where the last Guru, Guru Gobind Singh passed away.

I thought the only Sikhs in Bombay were Sunny & Bobby Deol and Ajay Devgan

:)


-h-

As AlephNull says, its 12-head, so donot take it seriously. I personally have rarely seen Sikhs in the so-called menial jobs in the US. I personally have mostly seen recent arrival UP/Punjab wallahs at petrol pumps. Secondly, while the 60s and 70s wave of migrations from India were from the professional class, these days, there are others migrating too. For instance, those who run retail shops and restaurants mostly import people from their own localities, so a large proportion are Gujarati, some Telugu and etc.

Thirdly, have you seen how hard these people work? Esp people like newstand operators and groceries who work almost 24 hrs a day? Only 12-head can denigrate that sort of dedication and sacrifice. I have often wondered, if people from the other side of the world can come to the US and and shoulder the support of dependents back home with so much focus and personal sacrifice, why can`t the native poor of the US do so, and get out of poverty using the same opportunities? I don`t have an answer, but I salute all such hardworking immigrants.

And its not only Indian immigrants, there are a few Latin American countries whose whole national economies are hooked on the earnings of immigrant workers in the US. I salute them too :).

Harpreet,

I have to agree with you, as far as Sikhs are concerned. My personal view (& I dont think I`m prejudiced) is that amongst all Indians, Sikhs are one of the most industrious, hard working & upwardly mobile community.

Yes, there is no shame in doing any legal profession, no matter how menial it maybe. I lived in Queens, NY for about a year. I used to take the local taxi service, as I had no vehicle at that time. I ran across an ocassional Sikh cabbie , who told me they just migrated from India & started out washing cabs & doing basic maintenence for the cab companies. Today, those same Sikhs are either owning their own cabs or have started rival cab companies that are out competing the local yanks.

There are many very successful Sikhs in white collared professions & in business in the US. I`m sure its the same in the UK. Their children are actively encouraged to do BETTER than their parents. I greatly admire your family that had started out with nothing, as immigrants, & build themselves & their children up by sheer hard work & a need for upward mobility.

I dont think there are Sikhs on welfare in the US. If they are, it is surely for the shortest possible time, before they get on their feet. Thats is the whole point of welfare, IMO..to give the poor a chance before they start helping themselves & then become contributors to the economy. I wonder what percentage of Sikhs are on the dole in the UK? I`m betting its a very very small percentage. The Sikh community, itself, is very well known for its philanthropy.

I grew up in Bombay, a city which attracts Indians from every part of India. It has a sizable Sikh population. I have NEVER come across a Sikh beggar in Bombay!:) I think Sikhs are too proud to beg..& God bless them for that pride!

sac

I am so tempted to put down some lyrics that I think the Pakistani Eminem would rap, but, but...

:)

Dulla Bhatti

Yeah you are right

:)

Aleph-Null

Cheers mate I will check that post out right now. Great to hear from you. That reference you gave me about Gandhi`s statements of the Jewish question in the 1940`s really helped out a friend of mine

:)

-h-

Aleph-Null

Jeez, I seriously think that this guy posts from a psyhiatric Institute! How many personas can one man have?? he is probably having his medication right now...

-h-

Ajeet

Thats a nice story

:)

-h-

Ref Headshrinker #250

[...I actually met an Indian in the US who goes by the name of Ashit Dixit!! ]

You mean, you looked in the mirror?

Ajit, you said it very correctly. I am not sure when other ethnic communities from India started migrating to North America but first Indian group migrating in large numbers were Punjabis. You dig up history of early migration and you will find that muslims sikhs and hindus from the same village or area will come here and stay together. Most of them although ended up doing menial jobs were actually educated by the standards of that time. Many of Sikhs came to North america in early days for studies at Berkley and other places. Few reknowed Punjabi writers from 80 years ago came here for studies and few returned like Gurbakhash Singh PreetlaRhi if you heard about him... First US congressman in 60s from the sub-continent was Dalip Singh Saundh, a Sikh although clean shaven. What he did 40 years ago our recent Indian scholars have not been able to achieve yet.

Even today Sikhs are only about .2% of total US population.

We do have lot of areas of failure but overall we are doing pretty good. People who can`t take their mind of cabbies and truckers are jumping to streotyping. I don`t know why lot of sikhs drive cabs but I know why many of them chose trucking at the first chance..believe it or not many of them have made good fortune in trucking.....Higher education is good but if driving BMW is the aim there are other honest ways of doing so. here is good example: A friend of mine an Engineer from India migrated about 17 yrs ago and then his brothers migrated on petition about 7 yrs ago. One of his brothers was a college dropout from India and 40 yrs old when he came here. He insisted that trucking is probably best for him. So they bought him a truck. The guy is so successful at it that with in last 7 yrs he owns his own trucking company with about 2 dozen people working for him and just bought a new Mercedes(some how sikhs like mercedes more than BMW)..while his Engineer brother is driving 10 yrs old Mercedes.

Harpreet, Dullabhati,

When I moved to NewYork in 1978, I had this strange experience. On multiple occasions I was addressed by americans as Dr Singh. The first couple of times I asked them why they were calling me so, and was informed that everyone with turban they encountered was a doctor.

There is small town called ashboro in North Carolina, there are over twenty doctors who are all Sikhs.

The first migration that took place to us in seventies were all professional, whether Hindus, Sikhs or Christians. It is latter, when their non professional relatives started comming that you saw the cabbies and gas stations attendents. Even those have done well over period of time, but then they sponser their relatives and the circle starts again.

Harpreet #253

{Listen buster, I didnt like the sneering, snobbish tone in your voice. No job is menial if it is done for a reason, and it is a measure of these ``menial`` Sikhs and Pakistanis love for their children that they come abroad and work crappy hours in crappy jobs in order to educate them, especially if they have to shine the shoes of people like you during their working days, all because they commited the sin of being uneducated and wanted to give their kids a break in life, because the opportunities in their crappy motherlands wouldnt allow them.}

Harpreet, while I second the sentiments above, I surmise that you may find post #144 on this thread an source of enlightenment on Androscoggin. No point in getting steamed up each time someone sprouts another cut-n-pasting head!

Harpreet: Religions can not make one succeed but they certainly keep the doow wide open for faithfuls to slide down. Islam spreads red carpet for those believers who wish to fail miserably in exchange for rewards in afterlife. Islam is excellent in providing moral and dogmatic support to resisting change due to built-in mechanism of restraining from freethinking, freedom of expression and experimenting under blue skies because such tendencies lead to skepticism and rejection of dogma which are considered sins. Muslims do not like to commit sins whose rewards are not instant and enormous. The sins like sex, stealing, cheating, corruption, drinking etc are juicy and instant rewarding to pass easily but sins like learning and playing music, adopting western dress, dancing, pork eating etc are sins with little or no instant rewards.
Islam is a quiet religion in dar-ul-amaan except for camel noises, and noisy in dar-ul-harb whereas music is a man-made noise in dar-ul-amaan. The noise of qawwali singing in dar-ul-amaan is an adoption of Hindu traditions and contrary to quietly following of Islamic Sharia. Even having legal sex in dar-ul-amaan must not be accompanied with too much noise; the noisy sex in dar-ul-harab and particularly if sex comes as a logical conclusion of jihad through booty is altogether different matter.

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Amit #249: I agree with everything you have stated. I think the Pakistani govt. should open upto the new Kashmir govt. and I think it will, as soon as Vajpayee agrees to some kind of a talk.

In a convoluted type of way, maybe nuclear weapons will have a peaceful effect. I think both countries are now convinced they cannot militarily win. My opinion is that there will be no more all-out wars, now.

Shankar #250: Madhuri apparently lives in LA, from what I hear. She got married to an expat Indian doctor. The guy you talked to could have been her husband.

The worst names to have in the USA come from Pakistan. I would put, ``Fakhar`` as no. 1. And, ``Butt`` as no 2. I am sure there is a ``Fakhar Butt`` or ``Butt Fakhar`` from Pakistan walking around in America, cursing his parents.

You are a bit behind the times, if you are still looking for Madhuri movies. She is now on the wrong side of the hill. And Ashwariya Rai has basically swept away the Indian movie industry, and now has zero competition. Devdas is pretty good, and has both of them. I was never much of a Madhuri fan, though.

For my money, any movie made by Raj Kapoor is a classic - better than most Hollywood movies. His are head and shoulders above any other Indian movie. Here are my choices:

Any Raj Kapoor movie (Joker, Awara, Satyam Shavam, Ram teri Ganga Maili (I think he made that), etc.)

Among the new stuff, Kamla Hasan`s movies are different - they are either wierd or really good. Hey Ram is really good (I think you would like it).

Others in the 70s and 80s stuff, Amitabh Bachan`s serious work is really good - like Kabhi Kabhi and Silsila. I don`t like much of his non-serious/violent work.

Most Indian actors seem under-utilized, because most of the demand seems to be for stupid romantic movies. But every now and then, there are good serious movies. I would say the top current Indian actors/actresses are, in decreasing order of acting capabilities: Nana Patakar, Naseeruddin Shah, Kamla Hasan, Amitabh (in serious stuff), Ashwariya Rai, Tabu

Harpreet: I was having a nice day and thought to give him a break.:)
It is very easy to think about yourself only and be succesfull when you land in USA at age 18 with no responsibilites attached but to supporting only yourself , while sacrifice your time and money to bring in and settle extended families is lot of work. I will respect a high-schooled cab driver who petitioned, brought and helped settle 7 siblings of himself and his wife and hence about 20 cousins growing up right now who can have a shot at it more than 1 guy all he could do in his miserable life was spend his life in university campus and drive a BMW as an reward and run away from his past.

Sikhs are doing well percentage wise according to their low numbers but Sikh with a turban is very visible. Even in a airport where only 4 sikhs are cabbies amongst the 200 group they seem to be so many. There is usually 4/5 turbaned sikhs in my workplace and when they all show up in cafeteria at the same time it looks like we are in Ludhiana or something.

harpreet:

``I cannot wait for the Pakistani Eminem``

He`ll probably be called aliflammeem and the hit single would be ``Without lota`` :)

later
-sac

Andrescoggin

[[In contrast, when Pakistanis, and also many Indian Sikhs,
come to the U.S., the first thing they do is take some menial job at a
gas station or driving a cab...They pump gas, but are not mechanics. Therefore, they are almost never running the station, but only working there. They seem to be happy just to have a job and will do without everything else in life just to be able to keep it. They do not bother to go to school to improve their prospects for employment, even though many of them probably qualify for financial aid if they are legal residents (although many are not). They live in the most depressed areas of town, often in tenement buildings, and they are not driving Hondas and Toyotas and Lexus, they are driving old Dodges or Chryslers that make a lot of noise. From the meager money...... Why such a disparity?]]


- Andrescoggin, while I am in awe of the brilliance and genius of the Hindus and Christians you describe that go to the USA from India, I am a walking case study of the above. My family came from dirt and scraped and toiled in factories to give me a break. All of my generation of cousins have been educated and are doing very nicely thank you very much thanks to their struggle to feed and educated us. My Uncle is a taxi driver and is sending his three sons to niversity and they will do very well, too.

The worst thing of it all is that they had do deal with and serve pompous clever-clogs like you all the time.

If people live in rough parts of town its because life is tough as an immigrant. Comprendez?

Listen buster, I didnt like the sneering, snobbish tone in your voice. No job is menial if it is done for a reason, and it is a measure of these ``menial`` Sikhs and Pakistanis love for their children that they come abroad and work crappy hours in crappy jobs in order to educate them, especially if they have to shine the shoes of people like you during their working days, all because they commited the sin of being uneducated and wanted to give their kids a break in life, because the opportunities in their crappy motherlands wouldnt allow them. Now that is real LOVE, to while away the best years of your life to give your kids a break. And I also know lots of Christians and Hindu Punjabis I grew up with that were the same, so I dont know where you get all this ``Hindu Christian`` baloney from. Maybe Christian Punjabis are different from the ones you are referring to. They would want to kick your ass too.

Think of that next time a menial fills your car up with petrol.

Can I touch the hem of your garment now, thou shining light of wisdom?

-h-