My Little Bit of Hindu

Ali A: an important revelation you`ve had. Indeed, the divorce of 1947 has left quite a schizophrenic mark on Muslims; its made them forget their other parents - Hinduism (or, if you will, customs inspired by the other religions of the sub-continent). Remember, an interesting component of Islam in Pakistan, as expressed very well by Naipaul, is that the period before 1947 comes to be cast into the ``jahilliya`` which renders it pretty much non-existent in the eyes of the mass. I think the tragedy of Pakistan is tremendous. In a world of dialectic and synthesis, it choses to stick with antithesis and never budge.

Re: SameeJB (30)

You said: ``The naming of Ghauri, Ghaznavi to missiles is very recent and more of a counter to India than honoring Islamic past.``

All the Indian missiles have names of Sanskrit origin which directly connote some attribute of the missile. The series of short range missiles in the Indian armory are called Prithvi, Akash & Sagarika. Prithvi literally means `earth` because it is a `surface to surface` missile. Akash literally means `sky` because it is a `surface to air` missile. Sagarika literally means `oceanic` because it is a `sea launched` missile. Among the other names of Indian missiles are Agni (fire), Dhansuh (bow), Trishul (trident), Nag (cobra) & Astra (weapon).
The fact that some geniuses in the Pakistani Armed Forces selectively picked out Prithvi, identified it as a portion of a name of a Hindu king of yore and were sold hook line and sinker to a conspiracy theory so much so that they named an entire series of missiles after Muslim invaders as a `retort` betrays a paranoia that would almost be funny if not so frightening.

Tahmed you are doing fine here…and I was preoccupied with an unrelated and unexpected occurrence…

Dost-mittar ji…(and hamidm)…

What shapes out identity? Of the three important factors that shapes our identity and thinking we have absolutely no control over …our parents…our land of birth…and our times…and in this we are not merrily running in the aisles filling our identity from the cans and cartons on the super market shelves...

...so a cosmic accident made us hindus, muslims, sikhs, christians, buddhists…another accident made us indian or pakistani…and another made us meet here at chowk in these times…

…coming to the context…where do we stop?…yes, as sub-continental muslims we had a substantial hindu past…just as the society before the advent of islam had a past…we are told of 360 idols in ka’aba…but going back in past where do we draw a line?…

…land….dharti , time and parents infuse the identity/culture in us…and only dogma-whipped brain dead would deny this…you must be something before you were a sikh…a hindu perhaps…and a buddhist before…this is just a rhetorical query…and at each stage..hopefully we evolve into something better…as humans we endeavour to embrace the finest in human spirit...not regress to the stone age man…

…hence my rhetorical plea to focus on the insaniyat factor…

rgds,

...t

ps: please don`t bother with jay...he is happy chasing his tail...

re: faisaluno

{power of cowurine }

...you prefer camel urine?..

re: ghalibzaman (post # 104)

perhaps it the power of cowurine that enables the brahmin to slay his inner demons.

Amit,

Hindus open your eyes before you tell namak harams that their anger is understandable.

I have close relatives in Pakistan, who tell me what rights Muslims give to Christians. Hindus are treated like criminals and are openly abused in their Urdu press. When namak harams identify themselves with such a place, they dont deserve your false courtesy. They should be treated as namak harams. For people to be a bridge between India and other places, they have to think of themselves as Indians.

Hamidm #105: Insaaniyat refers to the certain universally values that are quite well understood and accepted worldwide. It is in contrast to religious or political dogma. From your post, it would seem that flying kites in Lahore or playing making apple pie in the US is enough to make the break from religious dogma. At a superficial level, you are right. The mullah understands religion to be rituals (saying prayers in a precise manner, like a good madrassahite), and your solution to that is a different set of rituals (taking your kids to play baseball like a good American subarbanite, e.g.). In any realistic sense, you are both dead wrong. The antidote to religious or political dogma lies deeper than that. It lies in a emphasizing certain values.

The following editorial from DAWN explains why mullahs, closet mullahs, elites in this board are furious at the assertions put forward by the author. It goes against the profound racist indoctrination they have gone through in their lives.

It appears that hating hindoos is a well-accepted and well adapted practice in pakistan.

http://www.dawn.com/2002/11/30/ed.htm#3

Excerpts:
``...Pakistan Studies textbooks used by metric students are replete with propaganda that tells students to view Hindus as untrustworthy and enemies...``

``...many of our school textbooks are full of hatred and contain material that breeds intolerance...``

A little bit of Dalit in me:

-------And then my eyes rested on an advertisement poster of the Big Mac. The little bit of Dalit in me started making pinpricks in my stomach, prodding me to break my tuesday fast. No you malichhiya, not you again, I heard myself muttering, but the waft of the aroma and the music of the sizzle was becoming too much to resist in the franchised-outlet of my imagination. Oh for the taste of the juicy one, steamy and hot, with the red red lipstick of its own blood--kali like, the brown and black and white of the fat & meat almost like the people of hind-mata. Is is not my desh dharam to take a piece of it in me, anywhich way if possible.what do the puranas say but then what will people say. Saliva started working its way up in trickles towards my half-parched lips but the brahmin in me was in rage and hurled a bihiyya of vomit ....

-----Such posters are not there anymore but dalits are becoming christians or muslims en masse, en bloc, and in entire congregations. Good riddance, I say.....

tahmed

......... for once i agree with frau sadna, one hundred percent

``instead of brushing off the issue with bamboozling generalizations like insaaniyat, its better for all to accept the reality that, not once or not by accident but repeatedly by design, in multiple situations and multifariously Pakistanis as a STATE has chosen to reinforce their their primary identity as Muslims who SIMULTANEOUSLY explicitly reject any association with Hindus and Hinduism, past or present``

............ she, who would put goebbels and jay to shame, is too kind in this instance .......... it is not just ``pakistanis as a state`` who have chosen to subsume their identity as human beings (insaans) to their identity as muslims.......... more and more pakistanis as individuals are sacrificing your beloved insaaniyat at the altar of islam ............

......... and the same is alarmingly true of the pakistani americans who explicitly reject any association with hot dogs, apple pie and baseball and are adopting strange arab ways that have nothing to do with ``insaaniyat``............ this insaaniyat business in nothing but blatant eyewash and self-serving hogwash ............

re: harimau

{Studebaker, by his post #90, proves that he is namak haram. }

...studebaker would sell his grandmother if the price was right...

Reply InYourFace, Scout #92

``What does muslim in you say when you are eating pork chops? ``

The answer is ``mashallah, mashallah`` - right? Or is it a trick question?

(If it is a joke about Mr Urstruly I don`t think it`s funny, please apologise.)

Ref Ralph #84

[Islam or not, gratitude and honesty should be part of every religion.]

Gratitude and honesty should be part of every INDIVIDUAL.

Studebaker, by his post #90, proves that he is namak haram.

What is the deal with people trying to claim that Pakistanis want to be Arabs?

This is definitely overblown. Most Pakistanis I have met don`t even like Arabs. Some actually hate them. Hardly anyone really likes them.

Maybe Pakistan has changed in the past few years, but I cannot recall seeing anyone in Pakistan wearing thobes and speaking Arabic. There aren`t too many Pakistanis, if any, with middle names like Bin, and Binte etc. How many Pakistanis listern to Arabic music? None. Despite trying really hard, I was unable to find an Arab video store in Lahore. The only odd thing I can recall is the ten minute news in Arabic that is (was) shown everyday.

Eating dates at Iftari makes someone an Arab? That`s a wild one. Does eating crossaints at sehri make me French? What about eating KFC - does that make someone Kentuckian?

I don`t think most Pakistanis care one way or another about their Hindu heritage. Neither here nor there. Neither good nor bad. People born in Pakistan consider themselves Pakistanis. Which is how I think it will probably be in the future.

A SIMPLE EXPLANATION,

There is a simple way to understand the posts of tahmed and tempora,, posts 4 and 20 if iam correct.

The mullahs want to ban basant and kite flying, they are up front honest about it, it is a hindu festival and as a muslim country , it should not be practiced. I can understand that probably it should be so.

For tahmed and temporal, the logic is different. Ali the author is teloing that he can, a little bit of him can identify with this hindu festival. Theis obviously like the mullahs is not acceptable to the educated elite of pakistan, but they use a convoluted argument. Whay stop at the 50 year old history, go further back, talk of mankind.

The essence of what the mullahjs and the closet mullahs focus on are the same. There should be no acceptance of even a liittle bit of hindu ideas in pakistan. The funny part I do believe that it should be so, it is the closet mullahs argueing that it should not be and getting themselves in knots.

Re: Studebaker#90
Your anger at India is understandable because communal relations have really deteriorated over the past few years. While you may have ``escaped``, there are 120 million muslims in India. What should they do? They cannot go to Pakistan, where the current Mohajir population in Karachi feels totally unwelcome, let alone adding millions more from India.
We need to work things out in India and we really need Pakistan`s help as well. If the level of militancy in India in Kashmir and other places decreases, there will be a gradual cooling down of passions. Everytime a temple is attacked or innocent people are mowed down, people get furious, which builds up stress on the communal relations. A let down in militancy will cool things down. Secondly it will increase the chances of voting out BJP from power and bringing in more secular minded parties to power. I believe Indian muslims, as a community should really be the liaison between India and Pakistan. They can directly appeal to the Pakistani people and convey to them the dire need to normalize relations with India, which will significantly influence the overall environment in India.