A Work In Progress

Speaking of Zia`s Pakistan and its islamic push, I read a letter to Dawn today, whereby he implores Russia`s Putin to stand up against Mr Bush`s unilateralism.

What an irony? It was Pakistan which became a catalyst for the disintegration of communist Russia and Putin is the part of the old establishment who has not forgotten Pakistan`s hand.

To ask Mr Putin to stand up is like adding insult to injury?

But I am happy that Communism ended in Russia. The only country remaining is China. Ofcourse North Korea is acting like Rodney Dangerfield: is getting no respect from Bush.

The season of Jinnah-bashing is in full swing again. Now he is akin to some real -estate man rather than the statesman he was.
His Pakistan was not created with all these fantastic possibilities in mind: It was already there- the solid land-mass where muslims constituted an overwhelming majority of the population , and aspired to an independent state for - as you say- the Pursuit of Happiness according to their own ideas.

Ilyas:

-``the solid land-mass where muslims constituted an overwhelming majority of the population , and aspired to an independent state``

Don`t you mean the two solid land masses? Or was East Pakistan an afterthought?

LOL!! You don`t have to answer. It`s your country and you are welcome to build your own nation building myths. Just don`t go round announcing to Indian refugees and their descendants that a Pakistan was already there, and we Hindus and Sikhs of West Punjab were aliens.

That might tempt us to go a little further back in history then.

Politicians are supposed to play politics. It is better they fight it out in drawing rooms and assemblies than public fighting each other on their behalf. Therefore the case for the first military takeover by Iskander Mirza and Ayub Khan is as much nonsense as the one by Musharraf. Pakistani economy did not perform badly during the forst 10 years despite frequent government changes. ONly occasion where a civilain can be held responsible for messing up the economy was Z. A. Bhutto`s nationalization.

Two of the provinces NWFP and Balochistan had no history of Hindu exploitation with nominal Hindu presence. Yet they accepted creation of most unhappily. The case for falling behind Hindu population was a valid one on many places but a desire for power and dislike for Hindus contributed more for Bengali, UPite and CPite Muslims. In Sindh and Panjab, most valuable thing -land was in the hands of Muslims and Sikhs and no anti-Hindu feelings existed in the countryside.

[while the people of West Pakistan, also known as the Punjabis, were in the Unionist Party lapping at the heels of their British masters and refusing independence in the name of slavery]

This is wrong. The Unionist did not accept Gandhi, Nehru, Jinnah, Congress and Muslim League as their masters before independence. Why should anybody be forced to take sides in a democratic process? Nothing wrong for Balochis or Tamils voting for their local parties and so did Panjabis. Had Panjabis remained loyal to Unionists, the bloodbath at partition could have been averted. Unionists were best representatives to represent the interests of Panjab whereas ML and Congress did not even have a single recognizable leader from Panjab.

Musharraf was going to take over irrespective of Nawaz Sharif`s actions. That is why NS dismissed Musharraf and made history by kicking out the mastermind of coup plot disgracefully. His other choice was to wait for the over throw like Z. A. Bhutto with the same result. Z. A. Bhutto knew of Zia`s plan at least 6-8 hours in advance and did nothing because he knew it would not work. NS at least kicked Musharraf`s ass with Peshawari chappel on national TV. For that very act, at least half the Pakistani English journalists do not write General with Musharraf`s name.

One must admire today the great vision of the founder of Pakistan Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah and his fellow leaders about the two-nations theory. Quaid-e-Azam understood the Hindu mentality quite long ago. In 1934, in an address, he said: ``The Hindu sentiment, the Hindu mind, the Hindu attitude led me to the conclusion that there was no hope of unity.” “We (Muslims) are a Nation`` he asserted, ``with our own distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of value and proportion, legal laws and moral code, custom and calendar, history and tradition, aptitude and ambitions; in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life. By all canons of international law we are a Nation.``
Then on the resolution day, 23rd of March, while addressing to the annual Muslim League convention in Lahore, he said, ``Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature. They neither inter-marry nor inter-dine and, indeed they belong to two different civilizations, which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their concepts on life and of life are different. They have different epics, different heroes and different episodes. Very often the hero of one is a foe of the other, and likewise, their victories and defeats overlap. To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state.``

Just like Osama started pushing the cause of kashmir to recruit pakistanis, Jinnah started embracing the concept of mulims-hindu permanant and divine divide. Those who call him farsighted, conveneinetly ignore the fact that he was campaigning for seperatist movement in the muslim minority areas, and hence endangering the lives and honour of these poor yet emotional muslims. It is like if Altaf Hussain of MQM starts his separatist movement from urdu speaking areas in Rawalpindi and Lahore.

Those who say that he was secular, also conveneinetly forget that he had two faces: one for western media and another for Indian muslims. u can not demand a country on the basis of religion and then insist that it would be secular. By that standard, Israel is perhaps more secular than what Jinnah ever dreamed of pak.

Ref hrrehman #6

[One must admire today the great vision of the founder of Pakistan Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah and his fellow leaders about the two-nations theory. Quaid-e-Azam understood the Hindu mentality quite long ago..... on the resolution day, 23rd of March, while addressing to the annual Muslim League convention in Lahore, he said, ``Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature. They neither inter-marry nor inter-dine ...``]

Do they rape across religious boundaries? Do they?

[``....and, indeed they belong to two different civilizations, which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their concepts on life and of life are different. They have different epics, different heroes and different episodes. Very often the hero of one is a foe of the other, and likewise, their victories and defeats overlap. To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state.``]

So, what do we do with the 120+ million Muslims in India? Are we in India to accept them and the consequent ``growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state``? Or do you think we should expel them to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh? Or, perhaps make them revert (hey, that is a word you guys like to use; you know, everybody is a Muslim, it is just that some of us don`t know it) to Hinduism?

KHUSHWAN SINGH`S BIOGRAPHY AND MOHAMMED ALI JINNAH

ATTN Mr. Dost Mittar,

Let me start by saying one thing : I have only one purpose for which I am communicating on this forum at this time. I have absolutely no interest in convincing you of anything since you proved to be quite obtuse and obstinate in blocking out the facts and sticking with your own perception which is rather skewed to say the least since you still view partition with the eyes of a 7 year old ....

The reason why I have temporarily come out of my retirement from the boring interactions on this website is because you unwittingly or for sinister purposes (I can`t be sure) attributed an inaccurate statement to a great man Khushwant Singh who is by all accounts a man of honesty and integrity much like the man he admires, Mr. Mohammed Ali Jinnah... You claimed that Khushwant Singh agrees with you when you say that Jinnah had envisaged no place for Non-Muslims in Pakistan .... This is absolutely and totally false ..... I am reproducing the original statement from the book `TRUTH LIES AND A LITTLE MALICE` the autobiography of Mr.Khushwant Singh:


``Evidently he (Jinnah) had neither wished nor forseen that in Pakistan there would be no place for Non-Muslims``

PAGE 116 `TRUTH LIES AND LITTLE MALICE`


Khushwant Singh has accurately concluded what any sane person would if he read the facts cool mindedly or saw them with his own eyes. Mohammed Ali Jinnah had not envisaged an exchange of populations and wanted a Pakistan where all people regardless of religion caste or creed lived as equal citizens...

I don`t want to say any further since I think in credibility Khushwant Singh ranks higher than most people especially some one who left Sialkot at the age of 7 a whole month before Jinnah even flew to Pakistan. But I do want to say one thing though... By so deliberately misquoting Khushwant Singh (You might have read that article which misquoted Khushwant Singh in that case your crime is not to read the original Source) you have shown me that you too have the same mischievious streak as apparent in the more rabid and fanatical of your countrymen on these boards.

Kindly don`t dare to patronize me in the future... I don`t need your patronizing.... Maybe you should reserve it for the Saffron brigafe you have unleashed on this unsuspecting board.


Long Live Khushwant Singh and His India (Not the saffron Brigade`s)
Long Live Jinnah`s Pakistan

Sincerely
YLH

My dear Stuka Dive Bomber,
Thanks for correcting me about Bengal. You see the piece of land in question is this part, and so my omission.
By the way, I am new to chowk, but I wonder what made you have the nom de plume of JU87D (if I remember correctly from my childhood war comics) `Stuka` dive bomber of Luftwaffe, the terror of European cities till it met its superiors, hurricane and spitfires?
And when I said overwhelming majority, I did not forget the minority communities, and neither did Mr Jinnah. His historic 11 August 1947 opening address to the constituent assembly of Pakistan guaranteed equal rights to all. And Mr Jinnah, everybody agrees, meant what he said.
I do not know why are you terrified of being a minority under muslim rule, when inspite of all the horror stories, the share of state posts in Aurangzeb`s Mughal heirarchy was 50/50. Please see Sir Jadunaath Sarkaar`s History of Aurangzeb.
As for Jinnah, he nominated the hedonistic barrister son of Sir Sobha Singh, I mean our dear old Khushwant Singh, as Justice of Lahore High Court. Prime Minister IK Gujraal`s father I forget his name was his first choice as the Law Minister, later the Honorable Joginder Naath Mandal , a lower caste member from Bengal, was selected. Gujraal senior was on the Governor General Council as Minister Without portfolio with special responsibility for inter-communal relations, till he left for India in december 47 or jan 48. I have discussed that in detail in Chowk unplugged, off the wall discussions, Happy Birthday Mr Jinnah, so no point repeating here that the Pakistan Dream was very different from what India has forced it to become. Your brother, IK

My dear Stuka Dive Bomber,
Thanks for correcting me about Bengal. You see the piece of land in question is this part, and so my omission.
By the way, I am new to chowk, but I wonder what made you have the nom de plume of JU87D (if I remember correctly from my childhood war comics) `Stuka` dive bomber of Luftwaffe, the terror of European cities till it met its superiors, hurricane and spitfires?
And when I said overwhelming majority, I did not forget the minority communities, and neither did Mr Jinnah. His historic 11 August 1947 opening address to the constituent assembly of Pakistan guaranteed equal rights to all. And Mr Jinnah, everybody agrees, meant what he said.
I do not know why are you terrified of being a minority under muslim rule, when inspite of all the horror stories, the share of state posts in Aurangzeb`s Mughal heirarchy was 50/50. Please see Sir Jadunaath Sarkaar`s History of Aurangzeb.
As for Jinnah, he nominated the hedonistic barrister son of Sir Sobha Singh, I mean our dear old Khushwant Singh, as Justice of Lahore High Court. Prime Minister IK Gujraal`s father I forget his name was his first choice as the Law Minister, later the Honorable Joginder Naath Mandal , a lower caste member from Bengal, was selected. Gujraal senior was on the Governor General Council as Minister Without portfolio with special responsibility for inter-communal relations, till he left for India in december 47 or jan 48. I have discussed that in detail in Chowk unplugged, off the wall discussions, Happy Birthday Mr Jinnah, so no point repeating here that the Pakistan Dream was very different from what India has forced it to become. Your brother, IK

COMPLETED WORK,

Pakistan is no more a work in p[rocess, it is almost there, the vision of jinnah, the frution of two nation theory is almost complete. part of pakistan with nearly 25 percent non-muslims have been made to another country, the pakistan of today that had 10 percent non-muslims have been reduced to negligible non-muslims, the blasphemy laws, hodood ordinance in line with the dictates of the sheria courts of pakistan has survived all of the constitutional changes and form the fabric of pak society ( one mans one speach as can be expected is seen as the outcome of genetic deformity of forked tongue).

The outcome of the hero worship of the ilks of gaznai, and tuglak have reincarnated as mushy. Look at his latest speach to the people of pakistan, he claimed that his threat of non-conventional attack stopped the indian army. Now this man is denying it. He is coming up with all kinds of excuses and interpretations. How come a man of such low political understanding happen to become the army chief, how come in a country of a few hundred million, no one is capable of giving the head of stste competant advice. It is simply the ultimate proof of the success of TNT, pakistan is the final proof of darwenian experiment, those who believed in TNT have been selected and sent to pakistan. Now the outcome of the selection process is there for all the world to see, a society that selects the dumbest for the top job.

Ferzok, it is work completed, finished work, or should I say pakistan is finished.

Feroz Khan:
//...Mohammad Ali Jinnah, was blessed with an acute eye for property .... Jinnah was not only successful in locating a prime piece of real estate for Pakistan, but in his lifetime, he accumulated some highly prized properties himself both in India and Pakistan...///

So you mean to say that Mr Jhinna was basically a glorified real estate agent. you may be right. The cunning lawyer that he was, he used his devious ways to carve out a nice little chunk of land to lord over - all in name of Islam for which he had no respect ( eating pork , drinking alcohol ) and muslims ( with whom he never mingled - choosing to associate with the goras ; he stayed away from the unwashed masses in the street ). While carrying out his little satanic act - he very conveniently blamed it all on the Hindu Baniya, who with his infinite expertise in cunning is going to snatch away bread from the muslim mouth.

Here is the guy who demanded a country in name of religion and as soon as he got it - he declared ``Guess what guys, I lied - our new country is actually going to be secular, because you know - I love pork and whisky which Islam forbids``.

He said hindus and muslims can`t live together , hindus are so bad people - yet he chose to leave half of the muslims back with the those cunning hindu hyenas without bothering what would happen to them.

The lies that this man was propagating was exposed when many of his own family didn`t believe what he said and actually chose to stay back with the hindu hyenas.

But then we can`t really blame Mr. Jhinna, he has done what any of us would have done in his place - exploit the willing succkers. Unfortunately - the great unwashed masses of undevided India fell for his trick.

Today his legacy lives on: the true inheritors of his legacy are using the same trick that he has used half century ago. They still claim to fight for Islam, for muslims, for pakistan and grab nice little plots of land for themselves. They still drown in whisky in army clubs and yet profess to be the true fighters for islam. And they are still afraid of the Hindu hyena.

And the great unwashed masses are still falling for the lie.

Feroz Khan:
//...Mohammad Ali Jinnah, was blessed with an acute eye for property .... Jinnah was not only successful in locating a prime piece of real estate for Pakistan, but in his lifetime, he accumulated some highly prized properties himself both in India and Pakistan...///

So you mean to say that Mr Jhinna was basically a glorified real estate agent. you may be right. The cunning lawyer that he was, he used his devious ways to carve out a nice little chunk of land to lord over - all in name of Islam for which he had no respect ( eating pork , drinking alcohol ) and muslims ( with whom he never mingled - choosing to associate with the goras ; he stayed away from the unwashed masses in the street ). While carrying out his little satanic act - he very conveniently blamed it all on the Hindu Baniya, who with his infinite expertise in cunning is going to snatch away bread from the muslim mouth.

Here is the guy who demanded a country in name of religion and as soon as he got it - he said ``Guess what guys, I lied - our new country is actually going to be secular, because you know - I love pork and whisky which Islam forbids``.

He said hindus and muslims can`t live together , hindus are just so bad people - yet he chose to leave half of the muslims back with the those cunning hindu hyenas without bothering what would happen to them.

The lies that this man was propagating was exposed when many of his own family didn`t believe what he said and actually chose to stay back with the hindu hyenas.

But then we can`t really blame Mr. Jhinna, he has done what any of us would have done in his place - exploit the willing succkers. Unfortunately - the great unwashed masses of undevided India fell for his trick.

Today his legacy lives on: the true inheritors of his legacy are using the same trick that he has used half century ago. They still claim to fight for Islam, for muslims, for pakistan and corner nice little plots of land for themselves. They still drown in whisky in army clubs and yet profess to be the true fighters for islam. They are still afraid of the Hindu hyena.

And the the great unwashed masses are still falling for the lie.

ferozk

are you the ulloo who wrote this?

Feroz,
One should not be overly critical of every Pakistani leader since the birth of the country to the present day. Taking ``pot shots`` at leaders is alright once in a while but this well written and very sad tale, smacks of a lack of national self confidence and esteem.
One can agree that few bright spots appear in Pakistani history thus far, but hope is an addiction that some of us cannot shake off. In my opinion, Pakistanis are a talented people who are still in the process of finding themselves and their place on the world map. They need some luck and hopefully more confidence.

From Mushahid Hussain`s piece in The Nation (Lahore) today January 7:

``There is a cultural problem of Pakistani leaders when they negotiate with the United States, barring Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who, having been American-educated, had a better understanding of the American culture and political system and could deal with the Americans without any inferiority complex. For example, in a 1963 meeting with President Kennedy, the American President was so impressed with Bhutto that he told him: `If you were American, you would be in my cabinet`. Bhutto replied with a tongue-in-cheek comment that most other Pakistani leaders would not dare make to an American President: `If I were American, you would be in my cabinet, Mr President`.``

Ras

churchill as by quoted by cowasjee:

``If the viceroys and governments of India in the past had given half as much attention to dealing with the social conditions of the masses of the Indian people as they have to busying themselves with negotiating with unrepresentative leaders of the political classes for constitutional changes - if they had addressed themselves to the moral and material problems which are at the root of Indian life, I think it would have been much better for the working folk of Burnely and Bombay, of Oldham and Ahmadabad.``

http://www.tehelka.com/channels/currentaffairs/2002/jun/10/ca061002poor.htm

the more things change _ _ _. what is the point of rehashing old issues? how can someone who died 54 years ago be held responsible for the current impasse? why is jinnah being blamed for accolades heaped upon the likes of advani and qadir khan? how many shujat hussains had jinnah surrounded himself with? so jinnah did not want to live in a quasi-hindu-socialist utopia dominated by three (and possibly four) generations of nehru dynasty. he gave up his comfy lifestyle in vilayat, came home and worked for a settlement which in his opinion provided the best solution. and even the most ardent jinnah haters admit that jinnah did not demand partition until very late in the process.

so if people are not happy with the settlement reached 55 years ago, why dont they do what jinnah did. why dont they get of their butts and work to create a system that will provide peace and prosperity to the region.