Standing Up to a Bully

pmishra2 -- hahahah -- hows the RSS doing yaar.... and by the way there shouldnt be a ``the`` in the sentence ``in reading the Quraishi`s drivel...`` --- loser from hell ! hahah

In reading the Qureishi`s drivel, keep in mind that he first came to our attention by ``explaining`` that we were too naive and stupid to understand headlines like:

Freedom Fighters kill 7 in Wedding Party in J&K

which are routinely run in his paper. This genius explained that only ``sophisticated`` people could understand these things (why murderers should be called freedom fighters in a newspaper) and besides everyone did the same thing.

This article therefore comes as a no suprise. Only ``sophisticated`` people (i.e. people who prefer the narrowest ideology over facts) will find it reasonable. The rest of us will find it 2-faced and a mindless attack on the great satan. At least the jihadis are more honest than this type of person....

sac # 65
Media is a tool for rallying people for your cause. Whether you like him or not Limbaugh has done a great job rallying conservatives in USA. Al Qaida has used media to propagate their message quite effectively.

As far as incumbents being re-elected please go back to 1994.

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Pope says -- NO TO WAR

````No to war!`` Pope John Paul said in an address Monday.

``What are we to say of the threat of a war which could strike Iraq, the land of the Prophets, a people already sorely tried by more than 12 years of embargo?``.

With the current situation of world politics, for some strange reason I have been humming this old Guns n Roses tune, being reminded of the Unites States of America every time.

I used to love her
But I had to kill her
I knew I`d miss her
So I had to keep her
She`s buried right in my backyard....

Don`t want to flog a dead horse but human mind`s tendency to value recent events more highly seems to color the sentiments of so many here(including the slave driver).

A news source being liberal or conservative is irrelevant if one cannot poinpoint with accuracy its effect. Someone says talk radio conveys the conservative viewpoint and recent wins in the Senate by the Republicans is proof. May I ask were radios prohibited during the years preceding the Republican majority? Were people listening to Howard Stern and telling the survery takers that they were listening to Rush Limbaugh and then voting for Lieberman?

Politics in America like EVERY other democracy is by and large local. The media has little or no control over it. 200,000 people watching Face the nation probably do so because the rest of the channels are showing cartoons. One needs only to read the number of incumbents elected to the corridors of power to understand that.

later
-sac

quraishi #63 Quraishi sahib: I pointed out clear inconsistencies between your article (where you clearly make Saddam Hussein seem like a hero, as is evident from the title of your article), and your post (where you deny that Saddam Hussein is your hero). Instead of accepting an obvious flaw in your statement, you ignore the substance of what I wrote and simply state that my post is moronic!!
I think you need to grow up and learn something about being honest and start talking straight and start taking responsibility for what you write. That is the least to be expected from a professional journalist like yourself. Or from any individual with any character, for that matter.

i have seen some moronic statements being made in my time but i think some of the people here on chowk would seem to take the cake -- tahmed for one: have you worked as a journalist in pakistan, or anywhere else mr ahmed? as for the rest of your comment, you have the right to hold it but i guess others have the right to ignore it -- it would be pointless having a discussion with you if your an armchair email commentator sitting somewhere out of pakistan -- and mr ferozk, thanks really for your impeccable advice on how one should learn to judge and gauge the credibility, or lack thereof, of news sources, but it probably failed to dawn on you that this article of mine wasnt written for the brilliant wits and minds that are found on chowk but for a much larger wider audience -- i.e. dawn`s readers

a climbdown by the Bushis on Iraq?

With the major supply of US oil shutting down by Chavez of Venezuela due to the strikes -- and North Korea exposing the hypocrisy of Bush`s stand on weapons of mass destruction as an excuse to invade Iraq -- it looks like the administration is caught with its pants down --

hence the temporary retreat from military adventurism --here is Washington Post`s insider report:


Allies Slow U.S. War Plans
British and French Urge Time for Inspectors; Turkey Delays on Troops

By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 11, 2003; Page A01


Over the past week, key U.S. allies have sent an unambiguous message to the Bush administration to give United Nations weapons inspectors in Iraq time to complete their work, even if it means delaying the onset of hostilities.

The allied opposition to an early war with Iraq has strengthened the hand of moderates in the administration who have been arguing against setting a firm deadline for Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to comply with demands for giving up his weapons of mass destruction, according to U.S. officials and allied diplomats.

According to these sources, the odds of a February war appear to be receding, barring a major Iraqi misstep that would galvanize Western governments and public opinion.

``The odds have gone down for war,`` said a well-placed U.S. official.

``We don`t have a good war plan; the inspectors have unprecedented access to Iraq; we have just started giving them intelligence; we have to give them more time to see how this works. There is no reason to stop the process until it can`t proceed any further.``

The apparent relaxation in administration rhetoric contrasts with statements by President Bush late last year advocating a ``zero tolerance`` policy toward Hussein.

After weeks of insisting that U.S. forces were poised to intervene in Iraq if Hussein failed to properly account for his weapons of mass destruction, administration spokesmen are now echoing their European counterparts, and saying the inspectors should be given time to do their work.

Before this week, it appeared that the administration was intent on orchestrating a final confrontation with Baghdad soon after Jan. 27, when chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix is due to report back to the Security Council on Iraqi compliance with international demands for the nation`s disarmament.

This coincided with a major U.S. military buildup in the Persian Gulf region -- putting maximum pressure on Hussein and providing Bush with a credible military option to back up his threats of ``regime change.``

All of a sudden, this timetable seems in doubt.

Not only are key allies such as Britain and France publicly calling for the United Nations to come up with clear-cut evidence of Iraqi wrongdoing, the military preparations for an attack on Iraq have encountered a hitch because of delays by Turkey in agreeing to the two-front North-South war plan developed by the Pentagon....(WP)
___________________________________________________
What the world is saying to the War mongering Bushis -- ``where is the meat?`` -- evidence -- evidence -- and evidence -- just rhetorics of -- EVIL or SATAN -- won`t do --

Take on -- and take out -- BOTH SADDAM & KIM -- indivudually -- if u r that almighty -- and if u r that morally outraged -- the WORLD will be grateful --

but remember as -- A TRUE CHRISTIAN --

THOU SHALL NOT KILL THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ -- to Get One Saddam

and -- of course

THOU SHALL NOT COVET THY NEIGHBORS OIL FIELDS.....

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#46 by AlephNull on January 11, 2003 7:05am PT
Urstruly #24, Romair #40

Scratch a Pakistani, find a conspiracy theorist.

First Qazi Urstruly changes the Boeing 757 that hit the Pentagon, into a 747 - an aircraft more than thrice as heavy - and demands to be shown the wreckage of a fully fuelled aircraft travelling at a few hundred miles per hour after it hits a solid structure weighing tens of thousands of tons, before he will deign to deliver his verdict.
------------------------------

Al

Obviously my friend you lack sense of Humour.It is obviously possible to photo edit with Adobe or Phtomax any picture of Pentagon with the plane edited OUT .

Why are you even writing thesis about proving 757 or 747 size & one or NOT the other being the case .....LOL..he he he !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#54 by arjun_m on January 11, 2003 11:15am PT


WASHINGTON PAPER is the paper to Quote .Washington Times is just cashing on the WASHINGTON name of the more credible POST .!!!

“There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

“A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.”

hookah induced hallucinations of a poorly paid, al-qaeeda sympathizing al-jazeera hack? hardly. actually, this was reported by a correspondent of american al-jazeera. and while i can understand that germans are envious of living standards enjoyed by americans and thus might report all sorts of falsehoods to feel better about themselves, i wonder what prompted the reporter for fox to go across to the dark side. and even i, the resident isi booster, cant believe that isi jawans have infiltrated fox news.

even harder to believe is that israeli secret service got taken for a ride by arabs. perhaps they were shorthanded and therefore turned to hindus for support like the redcoats did all those years ago. also cant understand why this story was not given more air on the freest media to ever exist in the history of mankind. i wonder what would have happened if saudi secret service was trailing these guys instead of israeli secret service.

Major Israeli Spy Operation Uncovered

Thursday, December 13 2001 @ 06:57 PM GMT

Carl Cameron Reports

_ _ _Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn`t tell us before September 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Since September 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.

There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

_ _ _ HUME: Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9-11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?

CAMERON: It`s very explosive information, obviously, and there`s a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected — none of it necessarily conclusive. It`s more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.

HUME: Going into the fact that they were spying on some Arabs, right?

CAMERON: Correct.

HUME: All right, Carl, thanks very much.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html

Next Door to Mohammed Atta
Israeli agents were living in Florida and tailing the future death pilots – until their cover was blown.
by Oliver Schröm
Die Zeit
October 14, 2002

_ _ _According to the report, the Mossad agents were interested in the leader of the terrorists, Mohammed Atta and his key accomplice, Marwan al-Shehi. Both lived in Hamburg before they settled in Hollywood, Florida in order to plan the attacks. A Mossad team was also operating in the same town. The leader, Hanan Serfati, had rented several dwellings. ``One of Serfati`s apartments was located on the corner of 701st St. and 21st Ave. [sic] in Hollywood, right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi.``, French intelligence reported later. Everything indicates that the terrorists were constantly observed by the Israelis. The chief Israeli agent was staying right near the post office where the terrorists had a mailbox. The Mossad also had its sights on Atta`s accomplice Khalid al-Midhar, with whom the CIA was also familiar, but allowed to run free. The Mossad apparently warned their American counterparts several times about the terrorists, especially about al-Midhar. The American government later admitted that they had received such warnings prior to September 11. But at most that there were attacks planned against American installations outside the United States.

http://iraq-info.1accesshost.com/schrom.html

The White Van
Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

June 21 — Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won`t forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.

Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.
She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. ``They seemed to be taking a movie,`` Maria said.

_ _ _Plenty of Speculation

Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities` interest in the case was heightened when some of the men`s names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.

Israeli Intelligence Connection?

According to Cannistraro, many people in the U.S. intelligence community believed that some of the men arrested were working for Israeli intelligence. Cannistraro said there was speculation as to whether Urban Moving had been ``set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists in the area, particularly in the New Jersey-New York area.``


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

“There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

“A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.”

hookah induced hallucinations of a poorly paid, al-qaeeda sympathizing al-jazeera hack? hardly. actually, this was reported by a correspondent of american al-jazeera. and while i can understand that germans are envious of living standards enjoyed by americans and thus might report all sorts of falsehoods to feel better about themselves, i wonder what prompted the reporter for fox to go across to the dark side. and even i, the resident isi booster, cant believe that isi jawans have infiltrated fox news.

even harder to believe is that israeli secret service got taken for a ride by arabs. perhaps they were shorthanded and therefore turned to hindus for support like the redcoats did all those years ago. also cant understand why this story was not given more air on the freest media to ever exist in the history of mankind. i wonder what would have happened if saudi secret service was trailing these guys instead of israeli secret service.

Major Israeli Spy Operation Uncovered

Thursday, December 13 2001 @ 06:57 PM GMT

Carl Cameron Reports

_ _ _Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn`t tell us before September 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Since September 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.

There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

_ _ _ HUME: Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9-11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?

CAMERON: It`s very explosive information, obviously, and there`s a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected — none of it necessarily conclusive. It`s more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.

HUME: Going into the fact that they were spying on some Arabs, right?

CAMERON: Correct.

HUME: All right, Carl, thanks very much.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html

Next Door to Mohammed Atta
Israeli agents were living in Florida and tailing the future death pilots – until their cover was blown.
by Oliver Schröm
Die Zeit
October 14, 2002

_ _ _According to the report, the Mossad agents were interested in the leader of the terrorists, Mohammed Atta and his key accomplice, Marwan al-Shehi. Both lived in Hamburg before they settled in Hollywood, Florida in order to plan the attacks. A Mossad team was also operating in the same town. The leader, Hanan Serfati, had rented several dwellings. ``One of Serfati`s apartments was located on the corner of 701st St. and 21st Ave. [sic] in Hollywood, right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi.``, French intelligence reported later. Everything indicates that the terrorists were constantly observed by the Israelis. The chief Israeli agent was staying right near the post office where the terrorists had a mailbox. The Mossad also had its sights on Atta`s accomplice Khalid al-Midhar, with whom the CIA was also familiar, but allowed to run free. The Mossad apparently warned their American counterparts several times about the terrorists, especially about al-Midhar. The American government later admitted that they had received such warnings prior to September 11. But at most that there were attacks planned against American installations outside the United States.

http://iraq-info.1accesshost.com/schrom.html

The White Van
Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

June 21 — Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won`t forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.

Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.
She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. ``They seemed to be taking a movie,`` Maria said.

_ _ _Plenty of Speculation

Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities` interest in the case was heightened when some of the men`s names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.

Israeli Intelligence Connection?

According to Cannistraro, many people in the U.S. intelligence community believed that some of the men arrested were working for Israeli intelligence. Cannistraro said there was speculation as to whether Urban Moving had been ``set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists in the area, particularly in the New Jersey-New York area.``


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

alephnull #51 I wish I could agree with you, and that the two moroccans you mention were indeed journalists killed in the persuit of their journalistic profession. Unfortunately this is not true: The two moroccans were in fact suicide bombers disguised as filmmakers who carried with them the bomb that killed them and ahmed shah two days before 9/11. No one has ever contested this conclusion which is based on eye witness accounts, even though it would be easy to disprove if in fact these people had been professional filmmakers (since they would surely have been well known in their community).
So, unfortunately the fact I pointed to Mr. Qureshi remains: Pakistani and Arab journalists are content to sit in their offices in karachi or cairo and write up their news and views. A good share of their news items have to do with prepared statements received from government sources, or based on something some VIP (president or minister typically) said at some dinner or reception; or to broadcast some government bulletin; or (the closest they come to real journalism) to assemble hard factual news provided to them by - uh! oh! - some reporter for reuters or afp.
I will agree that some pakistani journalists get credit for speaking out against the military government (and under Zia a few braved physical beatings to speak out against him). I will also agree that western newsmen have more funds at their disposal than pakistani (but not arab) newsmen do. However, even taking all this into account, I think on balance the fact remains that the pakistani journalists (and arab journalists, including al-jazeera) are essentially armchair journalists. And that western journalists - not pakistani or arab journalists - deserve our thanks for providing us with hard news.