Standing Up to a Bully

pmishra2 -- hahahah -- hows the RSS doing yaar.... and by the way there shouldnt be a ``the`` in the sentence ``in reading the Quraishi`s drivel...`` --- loser from hell ! hahah

In reading the Qureishi`s drivel, keep in mind that he first came to our attention by ``explaining`` that we were too naive and stupid to understand headlines like:

Freedom Fighters kill 7 in Wedding Party in J&K

which are routinely run in his paper. This genius explained that only ``sophisticated`` people could understand these things (why murderers should be called freedom fighters in a newspaper) and besides everyone did the same thing.

This article therefore comes as a no suprise. Only ``sophisticated`` people (i.e. people who prefer the narrowest ideology over facts) will find it reasonable. The rest of us will find it 2-faced and a mindless attack on the great satan. At least the jihadis are more honest than this type of person....

sac # 65
Media is a tool for rallying people for your cause. Whether you like him or not Limbaugh has done a great job rallying conservatives in USA. Al Qaida has used media to propagate their message quite effectively.

As far as incumbents being re-elected please go back to 1994.

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Pope says -- NO TO WAR

````No to war!`` Pope John Paul said in an address Monday.

``What are we to say of the threat of a war which could strike Iraq, the land of the Prophets, a people already sorely tried by more than 12 years of embargo?``.

With the current situation of world politics, for some strange reason I have been humming this old Guns n Roses tune, being reminded of the Unites States of America every time.

I used to love her
But I had to kill her
I knew I`d miss her
So I had to keep her
She`s buried right in my backyard....

Don`t want to flog a dead horse but human mind`s tendency to value recent events more highly seems to color the sentiments of so many here(including the slave driver).

A news source being liberal or conservative is irrelevant if one cannot poinpoint with accuracy its effect. Someone says talk radio conveys the conservative viewpoint and recent wins in the Senate by the Republicans is proof. May I ask were radios prohibited during the years preceding the Republican majority? Were people listening to Howard Stern and telling the survery takers that they were listening to Rush Limbaugh and then voting for Lieberman?

Politics in America like EVERY other democracy is by and large local. The media has little or no control over it. 200,000 people watching Face the nation probably do so because the rest of the channels are showing cartoons. One needs only to read the number of incumbents elected to the corridors of power to understand that.

later
-sac

quraishi #63 Quraishi sahib: I pointed out clear inconsistencies between your article (where you clearly make Saddam Hussein seem like a hero, as is evident from the title of your article), and your post (where you deny that Saddam Hussein is your hero). Instead of accepting an obvious flaw in your statement, you ignore the substance of what I wrote and simply state that my post is moronic!!
I think you need to grow up and learn something about being honest and start talking straight and start taking responsibility for what you write. That is the least to be expected from a professional journalist like yourself. Or from any individual with any character, for that matter.

i have seen some moronic statements being made in my time but i think some of the people here on chowk would seem to take the cake -- tahmed for one: have you worked as a journalist in pakistan, or anywhere else mr ahmed? as for the rest of your comment, you have the right to hold it but i guess others have the right to ignore it -- it would be pointless having a discussion with you if your an armchair email commentator sitting somewhere out of pakistan -- and mr ferozk, thanks really for your impeccable advice on how one should learn to judge and gauge the credibility, or lack thereof, of news sources, but it probably failed to dawn on you that this article of mine wasnt written for the brilliant wits and minds that are found on chowk but for a much larger wider audience -- i.e. dawn`s readers

a climbdown by the Bushis on Iraq?

With the major supply of US oil shutting down by Chavez of Venezuela due to the strikes -- and North Korea exposing the hypocrisy of Bush`s stand on weapons of mass destruction as an excuse to invade Iraq -- it looks like the administration is caught with its pants down --

hence the temporary retreat from military adventurism --here is Washington Post`s insider report:


Allies Slow U.S. War Plans
British and French Urge Time for Inspectors; Turkey Delays on Troops

By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 11, 2003; Page A01


Over the past week, key U.S. allies have sent an unambiguous message to the Bush administration to give United Nations weapons inspectors in Iraq time to complete their work, even if it means delaying the onset of hostilities.

The allied opposition to an early war with Iraq has strengthened the hand of moderates in the administration who have been arguing against setting a firm deadline for Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to comply with demands for giving up his weapons of mass destruction, according to U.S. officials and allied diplomats.

According to these sources, the odds of a February war appear to be receding, barring a major Iraqi misstep that would galvanize Western governments and public opinion.

``The odds have gone down for war,`` said a well-placed U.S. official.

``We don`t have a good war plan; the inspectors have unprecedented access to Iraq; we have just started giving them intelligence; we have to give them more time to see how this works. There is no reason to stop the process until it can`t proceed any further.``

The apparent relaxation in administration rhetoric contrasts with statements by President Bush late last year advocating a ``zero tolerance`` policy toward Hussein.

After weeks of insisting that U.S. forces were poised to intervene in Iraq if Hussein failed to properly account for his weapons of mass destruction, administration spokesmen are now echoing their European counterparts, and saying the inspectors should be given time to do their work.

Before this week, it appeared that the administration was intent on orchestrating a final confrontation with Baghdad soon after Jan. 27, when chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix is due to report back to the Security Council on Iraqi compliance with international demands for the nation`s disarmament.

This coincided with a major U.S. military buildup in the Persian Gulf region -- putting maximum pressure on Hussein and providing Bush with a credible military option to back up his threats of ``regime change.``

All of a sudden, this timetable seems in doubt.

Not only are key allies such as Britain and France publicly calling for the United Nations to come up with clear-cut evidence of Iraqi wrongdoing, the military preparations for an attack on Iraq have encountered a hitch because of delays by Turkey in agreeing to the two-front North-South war plan developed by the Pentagon....(WP)
___________________________________________________
What the world is saying to the War mongering Bushis -- ``where is the meat?`` -- evidence -- evidence -- and evidence -- just rhetorics of -- EVIL or SATAN -- won`t do --

Take on -- and take out -- BOTH SADDAM & KIM -- indivudually -- if u r that almighty -- and if u r that morally outraged -- the WORLD will be grateful --

but remember as -- A TRUE CHRISTIAN --

THOU SHALL NOT KILL THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ -- to Get One Saddam

and -- of course

THOU SHALL NOT COVET THY NEIGHBORS OIL FIELDS.....

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#46 by AlephNull on January 11, 2003 7:05am PT
Urstruly #24, Romair #40

Scratch a Pakistani, find a conspiracy theorist.

First Qazi Urstruly changes the Boeing 757 that hit the Pentagon, into a 747 - an aircraft more than thrice as heavy - and demands to be shown the wreckage of a fully fuelled aircraft travelling at a few hundred miles per hour after it hits a solid structure weighing tens of thousands of tons, before he will deign to deliver his verdict.
------------------------------

Al

Obviously my friend you lack sense of Humour.It is obviously possible to photo edit with Adobe or Phtomax any picture of Pentagon with the plane edited OUT .

Why are you even writing thesis about proving 757 or 747 size & one or NOT the other being the case .....LOL..he he he !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#54 by arjun_m on January 11, 2003 11:15am PT


WASHINGTON PAPER is the paper to Quote .Washington Times is just cashing on the WASHINGTON name of the more credible POST .!!!

“There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

“A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.”

hookah induced hallucinations of a poorly paid, al-qaeeda sympathizing al-jazeera hack? hardly. actually, this was reported by a correspondent of american al-jazeera. and while i can understand that germans are envious of living standards enjoyed by americans and thus might report all sorts of falsehoods to feel better about themselves, i wonder what prompted the reporter for fox to go across to the dark side. and even i, the resident isi booster, cant believe that isi jawans have infiltrated fox news.

even harder to believe is that israeli secret service got taken for a ride by arabs. perhaps they were shorthanded and therefore turned to hindus for support like the redcoats did all those years ago. also cant understand why this story was not given more air on the freest media to ever exist in the history of mankind. i wonder what would have happened if saudi secret service was trailing these guys instead of israeli secret service.

Major Israeli Spy Operation Uncovered

Thursday, December 13 2001 @ 06:57 PM GMT

Carl Cameron Reports

_ _ _Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn`t tell us before September 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Since September 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.

There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

_ _ _ HUME: Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9-11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?

CAMERON: It`s very explosive information, obviously, and there`s a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected — none of it necessarily conclusive. It`s more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.

HUME: Going into the fact that they were spying on some Arabs, right?

CAMERON: Correct.

HUME: All right, Carl, thanks very much.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html

Next Door to Mohammed Atta
Israeli agents were living in Florida and tailing the future death pilots – until their cover was blown.
by Oliver Schröm
Die Zeit
October 14, 2002

_ _ _According to the report, the Mossad agents were interested in the leader of the terrorists, Mohammed Atta and his key accomplice, Marwan al-Shehi. Both lived in Hamburg before they settled in Hollywood, Florida in order to plan the attacks. A Mossad team was also operating in the same town. The leader, Hanan Serfati, had rented several dwellings. ``One of Serfati`s apartments was located on the corner of 701st St. and 21st Ave. [sic] in Hollywood, right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi.``, French intelligence reported later. Everything indicates that the terrorists were constantly observed by the Israelis. The chief Israeli agent was staying right near the post office where the terrorists had a mailbox. The Mossad also had its sights on Atta`s accomplice Khalid al-Midhar, with whom the CIA was also familiar, but allowed to run free. The Mossad apparently warned their American counterparts several times about the terrorists, especially about al-Midhar. The American government later admitted that they had received such warnings prior to September 11. But at most that there were attacks planned against American installations outside the United States.

http://iraq-info.1accesshost.com/schrom.html

The White Van
Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

June 21 — Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won`t forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.

Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.
She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. ``They seemed to be taking a movie,`` Maria said.

_ _ _Plenty of Speculation

Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities` interest in the case was heightened when some of the men`s names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.

Israeli Intelligence Connection?

According to Cannistraro, many people in the U.S. intelligence community believed that some of the men arrested were working for Israeli intelligence. Cannistraro said there was speculation as to whether Urban Moving had been ``set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists in the area, particularly in the New Jersey-New York area.``


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

“There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

“A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.”

hookah induced hallucinations of a poorly paid, al-qaeeda sympathizing al-jazeera hack? hardly. actually, this was reported by a correspondent of american al-jazeera. and while i can understand that germans are envious of living standards enjoyed by americans and thus might report all sorts of falsehoods to feel better about themselves, i wonder what prompted the reporter for fox to go across to the dark side. and even i, the resident isi booster, cant believe that isi jawans have infiltrated fox news.

even harder to believe is that israeli secret service got taken for a ride by arabs. perhaps they were shorthanded and therefore turned to hindus for support like the redcoats did all those years ago. also cant understand why this story was not given more air on the freest media to ever exist in the history of mankind. i wonder what would have happened if saudi secret service was trailing these guys instead of israeli secret service.

Major Israeli Spy Operation Uncovered

Thursday, December 13 2001 @ 06:57 PM GMT

Carl Cameron Reports

_ _ _Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn`t tell us before September 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Since September 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.

There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ``tie-ins.`` But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ``evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It`s classified information.``

_ _ _ HUME: Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9-11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?

CAMERON: It`s very explosive information, obviously, and there`s a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected — none of it necessarily conclusive. It`s more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.

HUME: Going into the fact that they were spying on some Arabs, right?

CAMERON: Correct.

HUME: All right, Carl, thanks very much.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html

Next Door to Mohammed Atta
Israeli agents were living in Florida and tailing the future death pilots – until their cover was blown.
by Oliver Schröm
Die Zeit
October 14, 2002

_ _ _According to the report, the Mossad agents were interested in the leader of the terrorists, Mohammed Atta and his key accomplice, Marwan al-Shehi. Both lived in Hamburg before they settled in Hollywood, Florida in order to plan the attacks. A Mossad team was also operating in the same town. The leader, Hanan Serfati, had rented several dwellings. ``One of Serfati`s apartments was located on the corner of 701st St. and 21st Ave. [sic] in Hollywood, right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi.``, French intelligence reported later. Everything indicates that the terrorists were constantly observed by the Israelis. The chief Israeli agent was staying right near the post office where the terrorists had a mailbox. The Mossad also had its sights on Atta`s accomplice Khalid al-Midhar, with whom the CIA was also familiar, but allowed to run free. The Mossad apparently warned their American counterparts several times about the terrorists, especially about al-Midhar. The American government later admitted that they had received such warnings prior to September 11. But at most that there were attacks planned against American installations outside the United States.

http://iraq-info.1accesshost.com/schrom.html

The White Van
Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

June 21 — Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won`t forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.

Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.
She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. ``They seemed to be taking a movie,`` Maria said.

_ _ _Plenty of Speculation

Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities` interest in the case was heightened when some of the men`s names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.

Israeli Intelligence Connection?

According to Cannistraro, many people in the U.S. intelligence community believed that some of the men arrested were working for Israeli intelligence. Cannistraro said there was speculation as to whether Urban Moving had been ``set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists in the area, particularly in the New Jersey-New York area.``


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

alephnull #51 I wish I could agree with you, and that the two moroccans you mention were indeed journalists killed in the persuit of their journalistic profession. Unfortunately this is not true: The two moroccans were in fact suicide bombers disguised as filmmakers who carried with them the bomb that killed them and ahmed shah two days before 9/11. No one has ever contested this conclusion which is based on eye witness accounts, even though it would be easy to disprove if in fact these people had been professional filmmakers (since they would surely have been well known in their community).
So, unfortunately the fact I pointed to Mr. Qureshi remains: Pakistani and Arab journalists are content to sit in their offices in karachi or cairo and write up their news and views. A good share of their news items have to do with prepared statements received from government sources, or based on something some VIP (president or minister typically) said at some dinner or reception; or to broadcast some government bulletin; or (the closest they come to real journalism) to assemble hard factual news provided to them by - uh! oh! - some reporter for reuters or afp.
I will agree that some pakistani journalists get credit for speaking out against the military government (and under Zia a few braved physical beatings to speak out against him). I will also agree that western newsmen have more funds at their disposal than pakistani (but not arab) newsmen do. However, even taking all this into account, I think on balance the fact remains that the pakistani journalists (and arab journalists, including al-jazeera) are essentially armchair journalists. And that western journalists - not pakistani or arab journalists - deserve our thanks for providing us with hard news.

Ref ferozk #45

[A simple word of advice to you would be: read everything and listen to everything, but decide for yourself! If you do not like the product, do not buy the product, but do not blame the manufacturer for making it! America is a plural society and there is a pluarity of opionions there and you have to decide, which one makes the most sense. Remember, freedom of expression is not about telling the truth or about saying anything you want. Instead, freedom of expression is listening to what is being said and more importantly, tolerating what is being said and not blaming the town crier for the message being uttered!]

Another case of ``Do as I say and don`t do as I do``.

Do you actually practise this when it comes to news about India?

For instance, when a Christian nun cried ``rape`` in India, all the self-loathing Hindus and their newspapers decried the event as yet another manifestation of Hindutva. When the nun admitted during a judicial inquiry that she made up the story, only the Indian Express printed a retraction. But you continue to cite that and/or similar trumped-up stories to be the result of the BJP`s Hindutva policies.

How many of you guys shouted yourselves hoarse about the ``saffronisation of education`` in India but quietly ignored the fact that the Supreme Court found nothing wrong with the new textbooks or curricula?

How many Indian journalists have tried to discover the name of The Muslim Tea Vendor of Godhra or his daughter? And you guys approvingly quote Mr. Chandrasekharan of Wall Street Journal (or is it the NYT?) and his story about the Hindu pilgrims on the train not paying for tea and samosas from the Muslim Tea Vendor.

Oh yeah, before I forget, FartsAnna is the favorite Indian journalist among Chowkies.

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tahmed32 #49

{In Afghanistan a number of western journalists were killed in action. How many pakistani - or al-jazeera or Arab journalists of which you approvingly quote - have been killed in Afghanistan trying to bring authentic news to their viewers?}

I think you are being a trifle harsh on Arab journalists. Allow me to remind you of the two intrepid reporters, allegedly Moroccans, who blew up in mysterious circumstances on 9th September 2001 shortly after the beginning of their interview with late Northern Alliance commander Ahmed Shah Massoud. It is said that the only question they were able to ask him was ``If you capture Kabul, what will you do with Osama bin Laden?`` Evidently a case of selfless sacrifice to the cause of authentic news reporting.

The US media is quite open and unbiased on domestic affairs. Each newspaper may support the democrats or republicans, but on the whole one gets both parties` views on things.

The US media on foreign affairs is quite a bit more biased than say the European media. This is probably due to the following reasons:

1) The American population usually doesn`t care much for international affairs. They have left that responsiblity to certain groups in the govt. and to certain think tanks. These think tanks and govt. officials can be influenced by pressure groups within the US, and thus be made to influence US foreign policy. The public then rallies behind the foreign policy, without asking too many questions, since they are not too interested in foreign affairs to begin with. This is despite the fact that the influencable think tanks, on many occassions, have carried out certain foreign policies (to satisfy lobbyists/businesses/other countries) which actually harmed the US population.

Once the whole US population has rallied behind a foreign policy, the media cannot go against it, even if it wants to. The media will be considered unpatriotic by the public. Due to this, the major advertisers on that media will withdraw their ads etc. And the newspaper/tv program will go out of business.

It is not a coincidence that people like Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, Arundhati Roy, Ramsey Clark etc. do not get much, if any, face time on mainstream US media. Its because they ask a lot of questions which go against the US foreign policy. Similarly, it is not a coincidence that the US media hasn`t done many documentaries on the hundreds of thousands of people killed in Iraq by the US. Even though it does detailed documentaries on a whale killed outside the Alaskan sea coast. Similarly how many documentaries have been done on the Afghans killed in the latest bombings. Does anyone know the exact number? How many investigative reports have been carried out on the transfer of lethal technology to Iraq by the US during the Iran-Iraq war.

Bill Mahr of Politically Incorrect, accidently, made one comment that went against the current US foreign policy. It wasn`t even a critique, since Bill Mahr usually supports US foreign escapades. However, the public didn`t like the comment, and all his advertisers withdrew their ads (literally). So his show went under, and he is out of a job.

Imagine what would happen if the major US TV channels actually started reporting facts that went against the foreign policy that the US think tanks (Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, The Enterprise Institute/Center people etc.) have been able to rally the US public around. They would go out of business for reporting the facts.

60 minutes did briefly touch on this, in one show. They showed that the US govt. leaked a relationship between one of the hijackers meeting an Iraqi rep in the Czech republic, thereby linking Iraq with Al-Qaeda. 60 minutes even got the US govt. rep to admit the above was a fabrication and never occured. But now over 2/3rd of the US population, according to the 60 minutes survey, believes that Iraq is linked with Al-Qaeda. If some TV channel started digging into this and tried to prove in detail (beyond a 5 minute 60 minutes story) that the US govt. is framing Iraq, it would lose its sponsors, because the US public does not want to hear anything against its President and his men at the moment.

Maybe ten years from now, the US public will be ready to hear the exact facts. At that time, the media may report objectively. But by then, many more innocents will have been killed by the US in Iraq.

Re: Omar R. Quraishi

For starters, the American media, both electronic and print, is biased. There is nothing earth shattering about this fact; it is fact of reality. American media is not in the business to give an objective analysis of the news and it should not be expected to be objective in its new coverage. The reason for this is simple. American has a provincial attitude towards the world and considers that the world revolves around America- including the sun!

American media caters to a select clientale and the American media is not interested in projecting the truth; it is interested in making money and it will report only that, which sells. News is a big business in the United States and it is about making money and not fairly portraying the plight of the down trodden.

As for FoxNews, I never listen to it, because it is just a rabid junkyard dog of the neo-conservative right in America. New York Times is a politically correct version of the FoxNews and is a mouth piece of the group known oxymoronically as the republican-democrats. The Washington Post is the voice of the establishment and will always support the political mainstream.

If you really, really, want to read about the political pluse of America, read The Capitol or The Hill; read Foreign Affairs or Foreign Policy; read the Guardian and the Observer - two British newspapers - that are insightful and objective; read The International Herald Tribune and its selections of international press coverage.

A simple word of advice to you would be: read everything and listen to everything, but decide for yourself! If you do not like the product, do not buy the product, but do not blame the manufacturer for making it! America is a plural society and there is a pluarity of opionions there and you have to decide, which one makes the most sense. Remember, freedom of expression is not about telling the truth or about saying anything you want. Instead, freedom of expression is listening to what is being said and more importantly, tolerating what is being said and not blaming the town crier for the message being uttered!

Ciao

Urstruly #24, Romair #40

Scratch a Pakistani, find a conspiracy theorist.

First Qazi Urstruly changes the Boeing 757 that hit the Pentagon, into a 747 - an aircraft more than thrice as heavy - and demands to be shown the wreckage of a fully fuelled aircraft travelling at a few hundred miles per hour after it hits a solid structure weighing tens of thousands of tons, before he will deign to deliver his verdict.

The seed thus planted germinates in Air Marshal Romair`s fertile if commonplace imagination.The man is off and running bringing up irrelevancies to show how difficult it was for all but the most skilful and experienced pilots to have carried out the 9/11 attacks..

The most obvious method would have been to use autopilot to get to the general vicinity.

As for locating the targets, the WTC towers weren`t exactly needles in the Manhattan haystack - or if they were, they were easily the biggest, tallest needles for miles around. At 450 metres high and 65 metres wide they towered over Lower Manhattan and would have been visible 10 miles away in good weather. They were tall enough that exact control over altitude would not have been required to hit them. It was also completely unnecessary to conform to an exact traffic pattern passing through gates at various altitudes etc. the way an airliner does when it lands at a commercial airport. Being hauled up by the FAA would have been the last thing on Mohammed Atta`s mind!

Similarly for the Pentagon attack: the Pentagon is not exactly the grain of sand that the Air Marshal makes it out to be. It used to be the largest office building in the world and may still be so. Each exterior side of the pentagon measures 300 metres or so; it is absolutely unmistakeable from the air. Because of building height restrictions in the DC area, there would have been no obstructions to complicate the approach from the west. The final approach route over essentially unbuilt-upArlington National Cemetery would have made things especially easy.

As for the supposed mastery shown by the pilot who turned into the South Tower, Romair is reading immense sophistication into pure happenstance. Similarly with the landing flare presumably executed - at 300 knots - by Flight 77 before it crashed into the Pentagon.

And finally, Romair might like to look up the intriguing case of the student pilot - a high school dropout - who crashed a stolen Cessna into the West Wing of the White House in 1994. He did it AT NIGHT, flying over the Mall and the Ellipse, avoiding the Washington Monument and probably using it as a beacon. He managed to kill only himself. The White House is of course a far smaller, less visible target than the Pentagon, and much less accessible from the air. ... All of which goes to show that flying an airliner into the Pentagon wasn`t really as complicated as Romair makes it out to be.

Ref omar_r_quraishi #43

[...hahah sdhillon: to the list of myths that you mentioned why dont you also add a couple more like cows are godly, and a monkey king jumped from sri lanka to india !]

The jump from Sri Lanka to India is slightly more likely than a journey on a flying horse from Arabia to Jerusalem or all the way to heaven.

How about that other myth that a book was dictated by an angel to an illiterate trader and that got magically transcribed with no errors and has been handed down for 1400 years untransmuted?

This business of 72 houries: does it mean that you also believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus?

#38 by arjun_m on January 10, 2003 9:44pm PT

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Everyone is biased...people only complain when the other person doesnt share their biases..
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Like I said most media sources have a left or right tilt. However overall they report fatcs. However sources like FOX news claim they are ``fair and balanced``. Now we all know they push a specific agenda.

I am surprised at their coverage on Iraq....One day they started the news with ``No Nukes Yet``. This goes way beyond a right tilt. This is ridiculous.



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Give people a little more credit..they arent sheep..like i said..if Limbaugh asked his audience to vote for Hillary, his listeners will probably turn him off...
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I can not give much credit to talk radio listeners. They are hardly open to opinions. They want to listen to the same things over and over again.

qureshi #43 you write ``where in the world did u get the impression that saddam hussain is my hero -- if anything, all that the heading suggests is that america is a bully -- read more carefully pal ``
It is crystal clear from your article that you think of Saddam Hussein as a hero, and now you are merely backing off from what you wrote above. Trouble is, you cant back off your written words. So let me help you read your own words more carefully, chum: The title of your article says it all: ``Standing up to a bully``. Who is standing up to the ``bully`` (as you choose to call the US)? Dont tell me it is Mother Teresa you had in mind. The very first para of the article makes it clear that it is Saddam Hussein you refer to. If I accept that Hussein is not your hero as you now claim, and since you have not (and can not) deny the fact that Saddam is a murdering son of a b!itch, then that renders your article to be a piece of nonsense. Since then the US will clearly do the Iraqis and the rest of the world a favor by getting rid of him. So what will it be: are you speaking from both sides of your mouth, or is your article a piece of nonsense?

PS: Let me also comment on your second para, where you berate berate western news sources like BBC and CNN: Pakistani journalism, including Dawn, can only hope to match these sources in terms of dedication and quality of reporting. BBC journalists have lost their lives trying to report the rebel side of the story from Chechnya. And indeed western journalists have a long tradition of putting themselves in harms way in order to bring authentic reports back to their readers or viewers, going all the way back to at least WWII. In Afghanistan a number of western journalists were killed in action. How many pakistani - or al-jazeera or Arab journalists of which you approvingly quote - have been killed in Afghanistan trying to bring authentic news to their viewers? Journalism in Pakistan and the Arab countries (including al-jazeera) can only hope to some day match western journalism - including BBC and CNN - in terms of professionalism, dedication and fairness.

sac -- good to see you here-- and more power to you -- americanexpress that news item u posted was FUNNY ! hahah sdhillon: to the list of myths that you mentioned why dont you also add a couple more like cows are godly, and a monkey king jumped from sri lanka to india ! hahah -- what goes around comes around my friend so dont complain -- and tahmed -- where in the world did u get the impression that saddam hussain is my hero -- if anything, all that the heading suggests is that america is a bully -- read more carefully pal

Romair #40

``Or those terrorists had received far more flying training than the experience on small planes they are said to have received in Florida. Some information is definitely being hidden in this area. ``

Others have said this too. It is speculated that consistent with the various trips they made to the region, the hijackers trained under professional fighter pilots of shall-we-say-unnamed-nationality at air bases in Afghanistan operated under auspices of shall-we-say-unnamed government and just like the airlift of from Kunduz of Pakistani personnel which the European press reported, this fact is also being covered up by the US to shield an unnamed unspecified-line ally.

If this speculation is true, finally all this lying by the US was to no purpose, since Bin Laden got away and the US and frontline ally are reduced to taking pot shots at each other.

Romair #41.

You are not alone in observing that one needs lot of training and experience before one can crash planes in low and high buildings like Towers and Pentagon. I heard someone say/write that ``true that they took flying lessions in USA, but they certainly got their training and practice somewhere else``. Don`t ask me where was the person pointing his finger to.

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There will be a huge rally in San Francisco on September 18 on this topic. I wonder how many CHOWK readers will make it there?

Say NO to war....

> NATIONAL MARCHES
> ON WASHINGTON &
> SAN FRANCISCO
>
> SF: ASSEMBLE 11AM MARKET & EMBARCADERO, MARCH TO CIVIC
> CENTER
>

Gore Vidal rocks!!

One of my favorite authors. His arguments have to be listened to by the mainstream US media, because he is too highly respected as an author.

There are certain things about 9/11 that definitely do not add up (I have to read Vidals` latest book on it, however):

1) For example, it is generally claimed that the terrorist pilots trained in the USA on Cessnas and flew a Boeing simulator for a few hours here, in which they never practiced how to land. They then hijacked the planes and flew them across the East Coast.

The first time I heard this, I contacted an airline pilot friend of mine. I have quite a bit of knowledge of airline flying also. Both of us agreed that there is absolutely no way anyone can fly a large Boeing after having trained on a Cessna and just flying a simulator for a few hours. It is impossible to do so even in normal conditions, much less in stressful conditions.

Secondly, navigation in airliners is done completely through instruments. While navigation in Cessnas is done through visual flying and maybe a few instruments like Beacons and GPS etc. When a person gets close to a destination, he recieves a lot of coordination from the ground controllers also.

So a person cannot just take a Boeing from Boston and reach all the way to New York without flying experience and experience on the navigation instruments on a Boeing (it can be done, but not likely). But lets say he is able to do that because he knows how to use a GPS or beacons etc. Or he knew how to feed in the correct co-ordinates into the computerized navigational systems and the auto-pilot flew it to New York.

However, it is still impossible, I repeat impossible, to then reach a destination within the city like the WTC, which does not have beacons, and requires visual navigation, flying at exactly the correct altitudes without a lot of airline flying experience.

Thirdly, if you look at the way the second aircraft turned into the second WTC building, it was not the work of a novice pilot. It was a perfectly executed turn, right on target, which indicates a skilled pilot. Such coordinated turns cannot be learnt in a simulator in a day.

But the final inconsistency is the most interesting: The plane that hit the Pentagon had to be flown by an experienced pilot. Infact a very experienced pilot. Flying an airliner and hitting a runway without sophisticated ILS (Instrument Landing Systems) is extremely difficult for even experienced pilots. If a 777 or 757 wants to land at Lahore airport, it starts its preparation thousands of feet above and tens of miles outside Lahore. Then it follows a well set procedure with well-defined ground features which it has to be at at certain altitudes. All of this is with the help of a ground controller and sophisticated instruments. The final landing pattern is carried out completely with instruments and ILS. The pilot doesn`t even control the aircraft manually till it is on the final landing slope. Everything is done automatically with computers.

Only a very experienced pilot could have targeted an airliner perfectly at the Pentagon, with no landing instruments, no help from a ground controller, and with no well-defined entry points on the ground and with no prior experience of flying into the Pentagon. Not to mention under so much stress.

From what I have heard, that plane actually flared and flew parallel to the ground before directly hitting the Pentagon. Flaring an airliner for landing takes a lot of practice. Its like learnign to ride a bike, i.e. you have to do it again and again and again, before you pick it up.

But flaring and then flying parallel to the ground, at such a low altitude, for a long distance, and then hitting a building (which from the altitude that the pilot started his landing descent, probably looking like a grain of sand) is an extremely difficult maneouvre. It requires an awful lot of flying skills. There is no way I could do it in an airliner, even though I have quite a bit more flying experience on small planes than the terrorists.

There is thus one thing that I can say with a great deal of certainity: the information on the flying experience of the terrorists is incorrect. Either there was some different person(s) flying the planes. Or those terrorists had received far more flying training than the experience on small planes they are said to have received in Florida. Some information is definitely being hidden in this area.

bat # 27

The foreign policy of USA is driven by its own interests. USA had no or poor choices in Afghanistan, North Korea and Iraq. Israel is a whole different story. I disagree with the statement Saddam and Osama are proteges of USA.

Saddam was an independent operator to a Soviet client much like India. USA had Iraq as a terrorist state until 1983 because they never trusted Saddam. They were forced by fear of an Iranian victory to support Iraq. Keep in mind Britain, France, Germany, Soviet Union, Egypt, all the Gulf Arab states supported Saddam against Iran. It is not like USA was supporting Saddam all by themselves. Pakistan could have given Iran a nuke or two to beat Saddam. Even Gen Zia knew better.

The decision to back islamic radicals in Afghanistan was Gen Zia`s decision not the CIA. Pakistan decided for their own reasons to back islamic radicals over secular and nationalist elements in Afghanistan. CIA went along because they had no other choice. There is no proof that Osama ever worked for the CIA. USA was content to ignore Afghanistan once Soviets pulled out. USA was willing to put up idiots like the Taleban as long as they kicked out Osama. If there are any fault in American policies it is not getting tough with Saudi royals.

Great piece OQ -- what that demented Texas cowboy is up to is not going unnoticed around the world.


On eve of US war against Iraq: the political challenge of 2003
By the Editorial Board
6 January 2003

The claims that the Bush administration has not yet decided on war are as false as they are cynical.

The White House has already signed off on a military attack, as is patently clear from the massive deployment of American forces in the Persian Gulf. Tens of thousands of troops are being moved into the region, accompanied by a naval armada bristling with the most advanced and deadly weapons and buttressed by hundreds of war planes. Military operations are already well under way, in the form of special operations activities in the Kurdish enclave in the north of Iraq and escalating bombing attacks in the so-called “no-fly” zones.

There is nothing Baghdad could do, including the elimination of Saddam Hussein, to avert a US invasion. Bush’s talk of Iraqi violations of UN resolutions are transparent pretexts. Washington’s aim is not the “disarming” of Iraq or even the removal of Saddam Hussein, but rather the occupation of the country and the seizure of its oilfields.

Whatever the immediate military outcome of the war, the Bush administration is setting into motion processes that will have the most convulsive impact, affecting not only the Middle East, but every part of the globe.

The war will further inflame international public opinion, inevitably resulting in violent reprisals not only against US soldiers, but also against American civilians, both abroad and at home.

Within Iraq itself, the American onslaught will evoke deep and implacable opposition. The Iraqi masses will correctly look on US military forces as colonial-style occupiers and oppressors.

The same rationale that underlies the war against Iraq will inevitably lead to wars against Iran, Syria and other countries in the region.

The US drive to dominate the world’s oil supplies will lead to increasingly fierce conflicts with more powerful nations, including Russia, China and America’s great power rivals in Europe and Japan.

A US conquest of Iraq will initiate a process whose ultimate outcome will be a third world war.

The disastrous implications of Washington’s war agenda can already be seen from the results of the US invasion of Afghanistan. A year after the fall of the Taliban regime, American soldiers continue to come under attack from an outraged population.

The US intervention in Central Asia has further poisoned relations between India and Pakistan, both of which have nuclear weapons. Notwithstanding the efforts of the Pakistani dictatorship to appease the US, tensions between Washington and Islamabad are growing, under conditions of intense popular anger and widening protests directed against both the US and the Musharaf regime. Already border clashes have occurred between American and Pakistani forces.””

The Bush administration’s warmongering has produced a sudden escalation of tensions on the Korean peninsula. Washington’s inflammatory rhetoric and provocative actions have led Pyongyang to take countermeasures that raise the danger of nuclear war, while the South is convulsed by massive anti-American demonstrations.

The US government is preparing to unleash a wave of military violence around the world not seen since the 1930s and 1940s. The closest historical parallel to the foreign policy of the Bush administration, in its unabashed reliance on brute force and aggression, is that of the Nazis.

What were the hallmarks of the foreign policy of German imperialism under Hitler? An ever-expanding cycle of military aggression, targeting first those countries too weak to seriously resist the Wehrmacht. The occupation of countries, overthrow of governments and installation of puppet regimes.

The fabrication of crude pretexts to justify preemptive and unprovoked wars. Open contempt for international law and the flouting of traditional norms of diplomacy. In short—a policy of seizure and plunder.
On every count, there is no fundamental difference between the methods employed on the world stage by the fascist regimes of the 1930s and 1940s—whether it be Italy’s rape of Ethiopia or Germany’s conquest of Poland—and those of the Bush administration.

The world is witnessing a new eruption of imperialism in its most violent form.

The Bush administration is setting out to subjugate entire regions of the planet in order to satisfy the drive of the American ruling elite to monopolize vital resources, dominate world markets and harness new sources of super-exploited, cheap labor.

The real reasons for war

The escalation of tensions on the Korean peninsula has one salutary political consequence: it thoroughly exposes the official pretexts employed to justify war against Iraq.

The US government claims the war is justified because Iraq is building weapons of mass destruction and defying UN resolutions. It has made the same claims against North Korea, but, in its public response, drawn sharply different conclusions.

Saddam Hussein is cooperating with UN inspections and is years away, even by US estimates, from building an atomic bomb. North Korea has kicked out UN inspectors and restarted the Yongbyong nuclear reactor complex, giving it access to enough plutonium to make a half dozen atomic bombs in six months.

But the US response has been to escalate its war preparations against Iraq, while downplaying the conflict with North Korea and urging dialogue, mediated through the United Nations.

Bush administration spokesmen have been unable to provide any rationale for what one critic has called its “schizophrenic” approach to the two countries.

That is because the real reasons for war with Iraq have nothing to do with the propaganda from the White House and State Department which is echoed uncritically in the American media.

The administration speaks for those within the American ruling elite who have seized on the collapse of the Soviet Union as an opportunity to establish a Pax Americana, in which US corporate interests, backed by troops and bombs, dominate the globe.

The key to this scheme for world hegemony is unchallenged rule over the Eurasian continent and control of its strategic resources, first and foremost, petroleum. On this basis American imperialism seeks to blackmail and bully the entire world.(wsws)

whats the population of hindustan? these guys cant even beat makranis wait until the pathans take to soccer.

Pak beat India in Saff football tourney

PTI[ FRIDAY, JANUARY 10, 2003 08:19:25 PM ]

DHAKA: India`s quest for their third consecutive title received a major jolt as they went down to Pakistan by a solitary goal in their inaugural match of the Saff football tournament here on Friday.

Pakistan’s Sarfaraz Rasool struck the match winner early in the second session to seal the fate of the Indians who had themselves to blame for the debacle in a fast-paced and surcharged pool-A encounter at the Bangabandhu national stadium.

The Indians, determined to reaffirm their supremacy in the region, appeared to be in disarray as the spirited Pakistanis repeatedly broke through their defence with a series of attacks from both the flanks.

The all-important goal came in the 50th minute of the contest when the hard-working Sarfaraz Rasool capitalised on a Qadeer Ahmed`s cross from the right flank to beat the Indian custodian.

The win was Pakistan`s first against India since the 1-0 triumph in the 1995 Saff meet in Colombo.

Handicapped by the injury-induced absence of four key players, including star striker Baichung Bhutia, the defending champions were a pale shadow of themselves and were guilty of muffing a couple of gilt-edged opportunities that came their way.

Veteran striker I M Vijayan got an opportunity to fetch the equaliser in the 70th minute but he shot wide from inside the box with none of the defenders in position.

Sac , arjun_m

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What percentage of American public watches Fox or NBC or any other media outlet with any degree of regularity? What is the most popularly watched news program on any TV/cable channel? What does it mean in absolute numbers?
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According to cable TV ratings....Bill O`reilly is the most watched news show(on cable). This is really disturbing to me. He is hardly an unbiased source of news.

Most major sources of news are pretty much unbiased. They may have a left or right tilt but overall they report facts. However Limbaugh and O `Reilly are major sources that are completely biased....Almost to the extent of twisting reality.

Sac
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And you actually went and asked these 22% if they voted or not. Maybe one of your minions on the bench is working on this project right now.
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These right wingers(Limbaugh, O`Reilly) are definitely impacting voters. The whole country is leaning more and more right wing. Just look at the senate election results. You argument is extremely silly. If you have not noticed the impact of these virulent right wingers...you probably live in a very insular community.

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Have you actually ever ventured out of your familiar environs of Edison and Jersey city to have an idea how diverse America really is and how insular the life of an ordinary American is?
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Edison is hardly mainstream America.

#24 by Urstruly on January 10, 2003 12:57pm PT

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Oh that`s great finally, I have found a Hindu who claims to know every thing. Arjun would you or any other Hindu who claim to be the world expert on terrorism would care to explain what is this:
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1. American Government orchestrated 911
2. Only Mujahideen were involved in Kargil
3. 1 mulsim = 10 non muslims
4. Pakistan won the 1965, 1971 wars
5. There is no infiltration from Pakistan into Kashmir
6. Dead jehadis get 72 virgins...
7. The moon landing was a fake.

Let me know.....I will add more facts to the list.

re slave driver #28:

Again no answer to my numerous qurestions. You are almost at .10 percent anyway so I`ll play along. Here we go again.

Here is the gist of your plea ``People who listen to talk radio are more politically concious.`` What does that mean? Let me break it you gently. There is no cause and effect here. Talk radio does not make someone politically conscious. Its like saying drunkenness is caused by Heineken. People who want to get drunk will get high on Merlots or Budweisers(though it will take longer :). Its the people`s choice. Similarly politically conscious people will tend to devour information from a variety of sources including talk media.

Following a multitude of media and information sources makes one more politically conscious not following someone like Lambaugh alone. Infact the mere fact that these people have an inherent distrust of *traditional* media outlets makes them more amenable to alternative sources of information be it Matt Drudge or your nemesis The Village voice.

Now go get your blood alcohol level checked. I have a feeling I`ll have to come back after the weekend and give you the enema you so desperately need.

later
-sac

Stuka: Stop playing the spoiler.........................;)

#22 by sac on January 10, 2003 12:57pm PT
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So if I listen to talk radio, I am most probably a conservative and correspondingly more like to vote
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Absolutely.....The republicans took to talk radio because they felt that the mainstream media(ABC, NBC, CBS, Newspapers, CNN) had a liberal tilt. Can you name one big liberal talk show host?? I can`t.

Talk radio in the US is basically a conservative media. They talk about the same things over and over again without tolerating a different viewpoint. The democrats want to promote talk radio but the fact remains that liberals are inherently more tolerant to a different viewpoint than the conservatives.....That is why they are called liberals.

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bbabu#8

where did i say i ``like`` the regimes in those countries you mentioned?? i just dont think the US should go on doing what it feels like..we all know osamabinladen and saddam were proteges of America and now that the tables have turned, they choose not to acknowledge they ever had anything to do with them. Their foreign policy is severely
warped and thats what needs attn.I`m very grateful to Uncle Sam for weakening the Taleban and making Saddam vulnerable but the principle of letting the US do what it pleases for its oil interests is simply scary.
I WISH that all the talebans in pakistan and their friends would be deported to these countries but unfortunately they are pakistani citizens..and thats just wishful thinking.

Urstruly:

`` I want some answers before I deliver my guilty verdict ``

Is this dude some judge or something?? Talk about an inflated sense of self worth??

Arjuhn_M:

LOL!! U messed up big time by messing with Sac. He could take you apart without breaking a sweat.

See, the Urstruly and Faisaluno type make it seem so easy to rip a Paki apart...gives you a sense of overconfidence..and that`s a kicker...coz u are dead meat in an arguement with him.

Word of advice: Lay low on this board.

re slave driver #21:

OK I am going to keep giving you more and more rope........

``Dont tell me you dont know that people who listen to talk radio are more conservative and more likely to vote.``

So if I listen to talk radio, I am most probably a conservative and correspondingly more like to vote. Any proof of that brilliant hypothesis Sherlock?And thats why Buchanan will someday win the Presidency...Right? His 448,000 votes in the 2000 election has everyone trembling in his chappals. Any other poorly contructed arguments in your knapsack?

``I`ll take CIO magazine anyday over jihad.com......``

CIO is now offering remedial English and logic courses for proprietors of body shops owners in all major cities. Sign up immediately. You`ll find a lot of school buddies there.

later
-sac

oh no. we are in real trouble now. rats who fed off the kachra found on times of india board have started to migrate here. chowk editors must be really desperate for an it job. why else would they allow these vermins to pollute the cyberspace?.

Oh that`s great finally, I have found a Hindu who claims to know every thing. Arjun would you or any other Hindu who claim to be the world expert on terrorism would care to explain what is this:


http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm


what hit pentagon? If it was a boeng 747 then where the hell is its debris. And if it wasn`t a boeng 747 that hit pentagon then where the hell is the boeng 747 that was allegedly hijacked from logan airport with 163 of its passengers and if it wasn`t a boeng that hit the pentagon then there cannot be arab hijakers, couldn`t they. I want some answers before I deliver my guilty verdict

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further rantings of loony left media:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usoil0110,0,3745888.story

Plan: Tap Iraq’s Oil: U.S. considers seizing revenues to pay for occupation, source says
By Knut Royce, Special Correspondent
January 10, 2003

Washington -- Bush administration officials are seriously considering proposals that the United States tap Iraq`s oil to help pay the cost of a military occupation, a move that likely would prove highly inflammatory in an Arab world already suspicious of U.S. motives in Iraq.

Officially, the White House agrees that oil revenue would play an important role during an occupation period, but only for the benefit of Iraqis, according to a National Security Council spokesman.

Yet there are strong advocates inside the administration, including the White House, for appropriating the oil funds as ``spoils of war,” according to a source who has been briefed by participants in the dialogue.

``There are people in the White House who take the position that it`s all the spoils of war,” said the source, who asked not to be further identified. ``We [the United States] take all the oil money until there is a new democratic government [in Iraq].”

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re slave driver #16:

You haven`t answered any of my questions yet. Anyway let me keep giving you more rope.

``22% may sound like a low number but these are the people who vote``

And you actually went and asked these 22% if they voted or not. Maybe one of your minions on the bench is working on this project right now. Have you actually ever ventured out of your familiar environs of Edison and Jersey city to have an idea how diverse America really is and how insular the life of an ordinary American is?

Now stop googling and looking for articles to malign Muslims and Pakistan and start thinking. Stop looking at CIO magazine also. It doesn`t carry any dirty pictures.

later
-sac

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re slave driver #14:

``popularity determine relevance``

I see. Here`s another exercise for your towering intellect. What percentage of American public watches Fox or NBC or any other media outlet with any degree of regularity? What is the most popularly watched news program on any TV/cable channel? What does it mean in absolute numbers?

later
-sac

P.S: The answer is not in CIO, your favourite magazine that already has severe doubts about your English skills.

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it is simplistic to blame uncle sam for every evil found in the muslim world. in many respects, uncle sam is similar to homer simpson. like homer, sam is well meaning (i.e. not evil) but dumb. like the travails of homer, sam`s well intentioned actions mostly produce disastrous results (ex. cuba, phillipines, vietnam, support for shah, mujahedin, zia, saddam, house of saud, india, likud etc, etc). homer has an insatiable appetite for donuts and he likes to stuff himself without realizing the consequences. similarly uncle sam has a huge love for oil (arising out of a love of money) and does all he can to insure a steady supply. this is not necessarily bad because it keeps the world economy lubricated. unlike the simpsons, sam controls the world like mr. burns controls springfield. therefore sam’s actions do 10 times the damage in comparison to the damage done by homer. on occasions however, homer does some real damage like when he floods springfield in the name of art.

in the simpsons world, muslims would be bart because bart does not play by the rules and cause grief to homer. tony blair would be abe ‘grand pa” simpson, a once proud veteran who is now reduced to muttering inanities. hindus would be smithers because smithers like banias tries to get a piece of the action by being swarmy and by sticking close to seth burns. u.n would be chief wiggam because of its ineffectiveness in resolving dispute of any consequence. what is missing from the current picture is the presence of marge because it is only she who can restore a bit of sanity to the current mess.

The ambiguosly gay duo of arjun_m and Jay need serious therapy. Here is the body-shop proprietor smugly informing us that village voice and the others are *irrelevant*. I dare him to inform us who actually owns the Village voice. If by some odd chance he does, I`ll be more than happy to help him shove his unattended foot where the sun never shines.

later
-sac

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sobia # 5, bat # 3

Whether you like it or not Musharaff agreed to US demands because he is scared to death of what USA might do to Pakistani strategic assets in tandem with Indian government.

I have no problem with the NY Times. Definitely they are pro-establishment, pro-Israel. They do report what goes on in kashmir, Palestine, Chechenya etc. There are plenty of columns opposing attack on Iraq, questioning the link between Al Qaida and Iraq etc. I could not say that for the Pakistani newspapers on the web. They also report on the Taleban, Pakistan`s Islamic parties, Pakistan`s nuclear exports to the North Koreans, Saudi financing for Wahabis. I am sure some of that has driven Pakistanis nuts.

bat # 3

If you like the regimes of Taleban, Iraq and North Korea feel free to live there. Or we can write letters to our local newspapers advocating all the illegal Pakistani immigrants be deported there.

I think Pakistanis care about Iraq, North Korea to the extent it gives them another state to trade nuclear technolgy with.

hi sobia, good to hear from you, i hear your back now -- arjun man frankly speaking your talking BS -- i dont think anyone is being hypocritical because we would take the same stand if this kind of stuff happened to indians or pakistanis or whoever -- thanks for telling me about the nation, mother jones and working for change and all, i know and read them all the time but in case you forgot to notice, the article deals with MAINSTREAM US MEDIA (DUH!) and in fact it mentions the websites that you mentioned in your post -- clearly u read probably the first paragraph and then wrote your rant -- the rest of your drivel i rather choose to not waste my time responding to -- and to the editors of chowk -- no offence but i really see no point in carrying an article that was submitted such a long time ago and which I later asked that it be withdrawn -- i mean this was written like six weeks ago --

Qureshi: Just the fact that a ``Gora``, or Gore Vidal in this case, says something against US policies does not mean that what he says is right. However, you present Vidal`s interview as if his views of themselves are sufficient to back your view that the US is wrong in going after Saddam Hussein.
As for your admiration of Saddam Hussein (which is obvious from the title of your article), I beg to differ: I think any man who litters his country with huge pictures of himself dressed up in all types of fancy clothes (as Saddam Hussein has done in Iraq) is a narcissitic little sob. Any man who claims who ``runs for elections`` without any opposition, without any open debate on his track record, as Saddam has done indicates the contempt in which he holds his own people. Any man who claims to have won elections with 99 percent of the people voting for him, as Saddam has done, is a damned liar. I wont get into the way in which he has murdered his own sons-in-law, or the thousands of lives that have been lost due to his invasion of Kuwait and of his earlier 10 year ``war of the incompetents`` with Iran.
I think you need to find some different heroes to worship than Saddam Hussein. Personally, I think he should be brought to justice like any common criminal.

Omar, a well-written article. I was in the US after Sept 11 for almost an entire year, and I would definitely agree with you about the US media. I was a student of journalism so I got to read/watch/observe a lot of the crap that was dished out post Sep 11. The worst part is, as you pointed out, that people genuinely believe that whatever their media reports is 100% factual. Even papers like the NY Times are very pro-government and unquestioning of the US foreign policy, but are held in very high regard by the general public.

bat:
EVERY issue becomes an India-Pakistan debate. I wrote an article on frikkin SHOES on chowk and THAT became an India-Pak debate. Give it up. No point in getting embroiled in it.

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The sorry state of the american media needs much more exposure and these kind of articles are just what we need..Unofrtunately most Americans remain ignorant because they dont know better than to trust their own newspapers...but can we blame them? Living in Canada, we luckily have more options as far as newspapers and channels are concerned, and its amazing how waspish, rightwing and biased some of these are.
It`s great to see people like Noam Chomsky, Robert Frisk, Peter Jennings of the ABC network and their likes, that try to undo the harm their counterparts have caused and voice a view very different to that of their fellow journalists. From Iraq and North Korea to Israel and Afghanistan, the US foreign policy is extremely partial and prejudiced.Amazingly even after 9/11 , antiAmericanism is on the rise and thus issues like their biased media have caught attention.
And how did this become a pakistani-indian debate??

arjun_m # 1

I am glad to see Pakistan abandon support of Taleban and Pakistanis getting fingerprinted and registered by the INS. It is time someone knocked senses into our neighbor next door.

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