If Army acts like a Political Party Why not a Forward Bloc in it?

Pankaj 26,

You could be very far from truth. The divide and rule policy of the british is followed even today in the indian army, not in air force and navy. The regiments are on ethnic lines, maratha regiment has only maraths up to the NCO level, similar with the rajputana rifles, sikh and others with officers mostly from other ethnic groups.

During the stay of the officers, the foot soldiers develop a healthy hatred to wards the officers. In the 1965 war with pakistan many officers were shot by their own foot soldiers. Since then it is a standard practice to transfer the officers just before a war.

Once again the three chiefs are not supposed to meet even socially with out the presence of a person not below the rank of a secretary in the defence ministry. Socialising across the forces is frowned up on and can barr you from higher ranks, though not stated publically.

Amit 24,

The reason why I have to read letters to the editors in dawn can be found in my post to pankaj. No pakistani would dare to post something like that about pakistan pointing out a reality of pakistan simply because of fatwafobia or a nation of patriotism. Pakistanis enforce the ultimate form of censorship, the most debilitating version, the self sencorship. Only place one can see some glimpses of pak reality is in tangential references in letters to the editors.

To give an example from chowk, at least five times YLH posted that almost every city in pakistan has a road named after Abdus Salam, no one, except hamid in his unique style commented up on it.

Do you know that several temples in pakistan were raised to the ground in what pak govt says as spontaneous response to babri masjid. Youu can never see a report on it, nor you can expect any pakistani on chowk to accept it. In india it is still a raging topic, the babri majid.

Do you know that in pakistan bussiness income tax is collected by electricity company as a percetage of electricity bill. No body will mention it while extolling the great finace minister they have.

The apparently decent tahmeds, temporals and others on chowk are living a sherade, it is only a pretention of decency, and at the slightest provocation, the true pakistani comes out. Read their comments the thread `` the little bit of hindu``.

What you read about pakistan in their news papaers and on chowk is a self censored version, the reality in pakistan is very different. Just imagine for a moment, the biggest event in pakistan, the equivalent of maha kumbh mela in india is the annual get together of lasker e toiba in madreke, attended by more than a million pakistanis.

The burka pakistanis were is not a body cover, it hides their minds.

westwind #18:
[YESTERDAY,S FAROQUE SATTAR,S PRESS CONFERENCE IS THE EVIDENCE...IN WHICH HE SAID THAT A POWERFUL LOBBY IN THE ESTABLISHMENT WAS RESISTING GEN MUSHARRAF} AND MOREOVER IF ARMY ENTERS INT POLITICS, POLITICS WILL ALSO ENTER INTO THE RANKS OF ARMY. ]
Thanks god there are still some people in the establishment who consider Musharraf illegitimate and a robber. Why should anybody support him on principles? Should they support him because of referendum or rubber stamp Supreme court decisions?
During my college years in Pakistan, Islami Jamiaat-e-Tuliba were deliberately asking their cadre to apply for commission in the Army. I knew so many of jamaatias from Government College Rawalpindi who joined army. Many of them must be now colonels and possibly Brigadiers. The JI was openly trying for years to fill military ranks with their supporters. I do not know the situation now. Who knows how many of them are thinking themselves to be divinely ordained to fix all the problems of the world overrunning any law any government in their way.

[Thus, why not a forward bloc in the army? PAP – Pakistan Army Patriots. ]

I do not understand what the concept of Forward Bloc is supposed to be. I am low on PIQ (Political IQ). Explain me: Can there be factions within Forward Bloc. Like PAP-Musharraf, PAP-XYZ, PAP-ABC? How does it work? Don`t you think it is much sensible and simpler to ask army to go away, like t says?

-ew

Mr. Amit

``The diversity in the Indian army is one reason we do not see this phenomenon in India. It is difficult for a South Indian general to get the loyalty of the Sikh regiment, if he tries to become a dictator. ``

Thank God, Indian soldiers and Generals dont think like you. And praise be to the Lord that people like you are not in the Indian army. Sir, I can say this with some confidence because if enough people started thinking the way you do, there would be no India. The Indian Army is a cohesive and disciplined unit and doesn`t consist of people with divisive agendas as your highness. If there are no coups in India, the reason is the presence of strong civil institutions and respect for the choice of the people. The Indian Army is there to protect the interests of the nation and people; not to enslave them. The day Indian Army or politicians start storming Supreme Courts and destroying the civil institutions, will be the beginning of the end for India.

A thunderbolt of a punching column -- a red hot idea

3 cheers for Nighat Yasmeen -- for delivering a General`s Jaw Breaker

and why not --

as Westwind says in his memorable sentence -- ``IF ARMY ENTERS INTO POLITICS, POLITICS WILL/MUST ALSO ENTER INTO THE RANKS OF ARMY.````

Re:jay#20
Jay, as someone who totally hates Pakistan, you seem to be obsessed with them. You even read the letters to the editor section in Dawn and bother to cut and paste from there. You have every right to hate Pakistan but it is intriguing that you spend so much effort researching your enemy. What is it that keeps you attracted to Pakistan ? Did some Pakistani girl break your heart in the past ?

Ref amit #21

[While Pakistanis always talk about Ghairat, they never seem to be able to stand up to their army. Even within the army, everyone is in lock step with Musharraf, even as he goes way beyond his original responsibilities as army chief. I think the solution to this is to make the army a lot more diverse, say give equal representation to all the four provinces in recruitment. This will provide some checks and balances within the army and discourage dictatorships. The diversity in the Indian army is one reason we do not see this phenomenon in India. It is difficult for a South Indian general to get the loyalty of the Sikh regiment, if he tries to become a dictator. ]

If you suggest that the Indian Army`s discipline will break down if a South Indian general attempts a coup, it should break down when the same South Indian general ordered his troops to lay down their lives in the icy mountains of Kargil or Siachen. After all, in a coup, the Sikh regiment could expect to survive with minimal or no casualties.

It is to the generals` immense credit that they don`t think of themselves as the saviours of India. They have the same contempt that the Pak Army officers have for civilians and politicians but they recognize that they do not want to inherit the problems of running a country as fractious as India. The standing orders that say that the GOCs of various Commands cannot meet without the Prime Minister`s authorization may help in preventing a coup but I am sure they can arrange to meet clandestinely if they really want to. It is just that the general officers, having come up the ranks saying ``Yes, sir`` to their senior officers, do the same when they meet with the political leadership of the country. They have the humility to recognize that the politicians, however crooked, however incompetent, however venal and corrupt, have got the one thing that they lack: a mandate from the people.

I wonder, along with another interactor, why Pakistani men are such muddleheaded idiots when the women are so intelligent and clearsighted :)

I look forward to the day India and Pak have all women governments. They can then generously set a `quota` for men`s seats what do you say and then make jokes about testosterone-hormonal imbalance in the legislature house.

Women parliamentarians can then out of sheer liberality mourn the lack of safety for men and debate death penalty for the rape of men, like Shri Advani recently did for rape of women.

Women journalists can then express their liberal thoughts on hijab for men, like Khalid Hassan of The Daily Times recently did about hijab for women. Like Mr Hassan, they can argue, that men shouldnot be asked to wear hijab, because men have always liked to beautify themselves.

Just like Mr Hassan argued that women having to wear hijab was a travesty which would make Marilyn Monroe indistinguishable from Phoolan Devi, women can argue that men having to wear hijab was an injustice which would make Musharraf indistinguishable from George Bush.

Women can then be progressive and set up commissions to make recommendations about men`s abysmal literacy rate and the discriminatory laws against men, including laws of inheritance and adultery. We would have serials called ` Kyonki Sasur bhi kabhi Damaad tha` and raise the masulinists shackles.

Kab aayega woh sunehara din :)?

SAD DAY FOR PAKISTAN

There are reports that the US is recruiting mercenaries for search and destroy missions in pakistan to hunt down the jihadists. It is sad to see the mighty pak army and the people of pakistan are silent on this.

At one time it was the US that funded and funnelled the jihadists from all over the world to fight in afghanistan. Again the pakistanis accepted it as mana from the white gods.

The new set up is against fellow pakistanis. Of course US is benefitted, to knock of kasi in pakistan would have been much easier than all the court drama and the lethal injection.

At last I am happy, at least US is listening to my view that delivering shahdad at the door step is the most humane and cost effective help to any jihadist. US is not well known for its considerations to foreigners, this time it is the greatest help.

A MODEL FOR PAKISTAN

It is rare to see an upright muslim these days, most are ashamed of themselves, unable to speak what they believe in. Here is a a model for pakistanis. I look forward to a day when a pakistani with back bone will stand up and defend their action in kashmir as the lebanese envoy has done. I look forward to the day when a pakistani will accept that it is a jiahdic country and liberate kashmir. from dawn of today



Lebanese envoy`s interview



I Would like to share with Dawn readers the transcript of Lebanese ambassador Farid Abboud`s interview on the Fox News channel.

Fox: Mr ambassador, do you consider Hizbollah a terrorist organization?

Abboud: Yes, Sharon is a terrorist!

Fox: Mr ambassador, this was not my question. I asked you about the operations of Hizbollah in the targeting and killing of innocent civilians. How do you view Hizbollah?

Abboud: Yes, Sharon, the terrorist, has killed thousands upon thousands of civilians. He is the biggest terrorist out there.

Fox: Mr ambassador. Please answer my question. Do you consider Hizbollah a terrorist organization or not? Are you against the killing of innocent civilians?

Abboud: Of course I am against the killing of innocent civilians. You have to define who the innocent civilians are. Sharon, the terrorist, has killed many thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians; and he is continuing to do so.

Fox: But what about Hizbollah? Are you telling us that Hizbollah never killed any civilians or plotted to kill any innocent civilians?

Abboud: Hizbollah is a resistance movement. They have a place in the Lebanese parliament and they are fighting for justice and for a good cause. If there were innocent civilians hurt in the process, they are a casualty of war. Hizbollah does not target civilians on purpose, unlike the war-monger, Sharon, whose only targets have been civilians, including children.

Fox: Mr ambassador, does this mean you condone the suicide bombers?

Abboud: I do not condone the actions of the war criminal Sharon.

Fox interviewer: Mr ambassador, please stop evading my questions and answer them directly! Do you condone the suicide bombers?

Abboud: I do not condone the killing of innocent civilians, but we have to define who is an innocent civilian and who is not. If a Palestinian suicide bomber kills a bunch of Israeli soldiers who are committing atrocities against the defenceless Palestinian population, do you consider these soldiers as innocent civilians?

Fox interviewer: Mr Abboud, do you recognize Israel`s right to exist?

Abboud: Yes, I recognize Palestine`s right to exist.

Fox interviewer (no words to describe his face): Mr ambassador. Please stop this aversion in answering, and answer our specific questions. Do you recognize Israel`s right to exist or not?

Abboud: Israel already exists, sir. It does not need my recognition. It is the recognition of Palestine to exist that should be addressed.

Fox: Mr ambassador, why are you so one-sided and biased in answering our questions?

Abboud: Sir, it is you who is very one-sided and biased in your questioning.

Fox interviewer (totally at a loss of words): Mr Abboud, Lebanese ambassador to the US, thank you, sir, for your time and the interview.

IMTIAZ AHMED

New York, USA

Nighat,
While Pakistanis always talk about Ghairat, they never seem to be able to stand up to their army. Even within the army, everyone is in lock step with Musharraf, even as he goes way beyond his original responsibilities as army chief. I think the solution to this is to make the army a lot more diverse, say give equal representation to all the four provinces in recruitment. This will provide some checks and balances within the army and discourage dictatorships. The diversity in the Indian army is one reason we do not see this phenomenon in India. It is difficult for a South Indian general to get the loyalty of the Sikh regiment, if he tries to become a dictator.

THE PEOCESS OF A FORWARD BLOCK IN ARMY IS ALREADY IN THE OFFING...{YESTERDAY,S FAROQUE SATTAR,S PRESS CONFERENCE IS THE EVIDENCE...IN WHICH HE SAID THAT A POWERFUL LOBBY IN THE ESTABLISHMENT WAS RESISTING GEN MUSHARRAF} AND MOREOVER IF ARMY ENTERS INT POLITICS, POLITICS WILL ALSO ENTER INTO THE RANKS OF ARMY.

Let me say: Pakistani women zindabad. This article, one by Riffat Jahan, Bina Shah and most Pakistani origin female interactors have outshined the male counterparts over and over. The future of Pakistan is safer in their hands than bunch of masochistic males.
I am now worried about me not fitting in the doli......
Talking about horse trading, guess who made the killing for his vote. No it is not Faisal Saleh Hayat or Rao Sikander. He is Maulana Tahir Ul Qadri of Pakistani Awami Tehrik (Asif Naqshbandi favorite). He sold his vote for a cool 10 crore cash in 1000 rupee bills.
If MQM stays out, look for another round of major Horse trading. This time the member of Jamaat-e-Islami of MMA and Chaudhry Nisar of PML (N) group will go up for trade or dissolution of this assembly.
Very good article, Nighat Yasmeen. Speaking from the heart with open mind is much better than playing politics in articles.

any moment now, someone is going to post the wp article

[The writer is a simple housewife with no extraordinary academic credentials, but refuses to be a passive spectator anymore...]

How come the Pakistani womenfolk have their heads screwed on right whereas the menfolk are generally (with a few exceptions) seen to be foaming at the mouth and ranting and raving? Could it be that girls do not get as much religious instruction as boys do? Perhaps we should all thank Allah and Al-Kitab for the misogyny of the mullahs if that means that 52% of the population of Pakistan is sane.