Little Big Men

Neanderthal #42

later.

#41 by Ralph on December 27, 2002 7:39am PT
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Why is logic such an unknown science for you islamists? For Muhammad`s sake, mankind has progressed beyond what a horde of illiterate desert bedouins found reasonable fourteen hundred years ago. Accept it
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hmm lets see what logic and science it is ban liquor 4 decades back and then get back to drinking a few years later. Blame liquor for accidents and alcohohism and promote the business of Liqor, good for economy!!
expect people to go around drink and then not drive cars.


Go naked in india till 1500 and now kill any one wearing a mini skirt.
Cover even table legs in europe in victorian purdisness and go naked in the 21st century.

Fine logic Call divorce a sin in India as well as europe for thousands of years and now discover that it is not a sin after all and in europe and US go on a divorce spree.

this same logic gave the rise to the myth that breast feeding is unfashionable and bad for the figure and now go on how it is the best thing that happened to a female.

Hail the live in relationships as good for the future marriage and now come out with evidence that livein relationships actually hamper marriage.

Serve liquor in parties and then write colloums on how to handle the aftermath including harrassing of women by drunk men How to direct people throwing up to safe places, How to stop drunk people fighting and how to handle situation when women get drunk and get frisky and undress (Honest this was in times of india)

the logic in beliving that countries should grow by spending while the fact of scarce recourse stares you in the face. Calling for ubridled consumering as the paneca for all solutions.

the logic in beliving that the fairytale that stock market works with on the logic of supply and demand of percived earning which is again related to growth constantly. Ignnoring the fact that it has served as a vehicle to trasfer the wealth of (relatively poor) small investors to the big investors(read the rich)

ali87 #39

Why is logic such an unknown science for you islamists? For Muhammad`s sake, mankind has progressed beyond what a horde of illiterate desert bedouins found reasonable fourteen hundred years ago. Accept it.

#38 by ssdhillon on December 24, 2002 1:42pm PT
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I have a lot of respect for Islam.
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Acccepted.

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This is an example of your silly arguments. What is wrong with women not covering their chest.

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Well let some women try doing that in india and you will get the answers and most likely they will be from Hindus..
As I recall they are not Jehadis...


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I have yet to see a case where Jehad is being used to defend a country. Take Pakistan....when it came to defending Pakistan......90,000 Pakis surrendered without a fight. How come the concept of jehad did not motivate those guys. The fact is Jehad is a convenient way for the rulers and elite to exploit ordinary muslims for their political goals
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True but your solution (that is what you seem to call for) for abondment of the concept is based on this.

Like throwing the baby out with the bathwater..just doesnt make sense..


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I can point out hundreds of negative points about Islam like you have done about Hinduism. However unlike you jehadis I do have the basic descency not to bad mouth somebody`s religion.

I have a lot of respect for Islam. Fundamentalists like you on the other hand disgust me. Your Jehadi mentality just can not accept the fact that I am not against

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granted that I took a few pot shots in earlier posts. I tried only to put history in prespective.

Yours is abetter approach I agree.. ..

Fundamentalists like me may in fact be a blessing.. by taking the misguided muslims away from a biased reading of the religion to its actual one of peace and justice and truth...

your bile is against is against the non-fundamentalists who go away from the fundamentals of islam and read the surah (2.191, And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out) in isolation and without context to the unlettered muslims and declare ``killing of non-muslims is needed``
for whatever their immediate agenda.

You and muslims would be benefited more by a correct reading and understanding to call to Jihad. There is little hope that any muslim will ever accept the removal of Jihad (or for that matter any aspect of Koran)from the parctice of religion.

In fact encouraging more madarsaas which would provide a more comprehensive reading of Quran than is being taught in present day madarsas and a understanding of other religions as well as the recognition that madarsas and religous affiliated centers of learning have in the past been also centers of learning of science , philosophy etc. would do more good than the harm which present day madarsas have done. These madarsas which poor muslims send their childern to where their basic needs are taken care and the purverours of reigion in the self seeking present day ulema chose to impose a half baked interpreation of religion while having no agenda for the betterment of socitey and no encouragmet for sutdies of various other faculties which impact the muslim life as well as of the nations where they live.

#36 by Ralph on December 23, 2002 6:59pm

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You put your neanderthal`s idea of equality on display. You, however, don`t have to continue being a Neanderthal. You are welcome to evolve into a human being. You might even learn what civilization is.
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Now you mean the modernity of going naked around a daily basis and swimming in your drink ?? Having sex with all and sundry, Children growing up with mulitple sets of parents and having attention of none. Being high on drugs..


Hmm.... what a progress from Neanderthal!!!

What your pea sized brain cant fanthom is that with out the penalties (harsh as they seem) for sex outside the family structure and the gains for it within it there will be no family left.

Proof of such is western countries is not evidence enough for you..
Without family sturctrure and morals just break down as can be seen in the west. so every thing is fair and square.. Homosexuality, belittleing your family on the talk shows.. uncontrolled voilence for fun...Abanoding your parents to die alone in oldage..


Like you said that you call this progress... as can be understood only by a Neanderthal

#31 by ali87 on December 22, 2002 1:28pm PT

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perhaps you are deeply hurt in your physce and want to get some solace by some one admitting to hurting you.
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Was that supposed to be funny!!!. Do me a favour....stay on the topic. I am not very interested in your psycho-analysis.

Rest of your post is the same old bullshit: ``Islam is better than Hinduism``.
I can point out hundreds of negative points about Islam like you have done about Hinduism. However unlike you jehadis I do have the basic descency not to bad mouth somebody`s religion.

I have a lot of respect for Islam. Fundamentalists like you on the other hand disgust me. Your Jehadi mentality just can not accept the fact that I am not against Islam.

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There was a year long protest by in what is now Kerala because the british forced hindus to abandon the practice of women going without any covering on the chest. Strange the sanghparivar`s depction of women as demure and chaste is actuall some thing you guys picked from the muslims and not a small murmur of thanks for it.
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This is an example of your silly arguments. What is wrong with women not covering their chest. Looks like none of the locals had a problem. Again your jehadi mentality does not get the fact that people can live differently than you. According to you......the only place where women were chaste was the Arabic desert where they lived under the constant fear of being stoned if they did not live just like they were told.


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Jehad is meant for muslims as a nation. nothing wrong in it.
just as it is not wrong for any country to defend itself.
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I have yet to see a case where Jehad is being used to defend a country. Take Pakistan....when it came to defending Pakistan......90,000 Pakis surrendered without a fight. How come the concept of jehad did not motivate those guys. The fact is Jehad is a convenient way for the rulers and elite to exploit ordinary muslims for their political goals.

ali87

You put your neanderthal`s idea of equality on display. You, however, don`t have to continue being a Neanderthal. You are welcome to evolve into a human being. You might even learn what civilization is.

#34 by Ralph on December 23, 2002 12:29pm PT
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That is why it makes sense to presume that people like you are Jihadis unless proven otherwise
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Dont take it too hard Ralph, Islam has been equal opportunity before the term became became faishonable in the west. You are welcome to change your Kafir status any time.

>you are right what is in the book is to search and kill Kafirs but >provided the three conditions are met as I have described in my >previous post.
>Im clear about this. YOu guys are hung up about being kafirs!! But you >are, nothing we can do about it.


That is why it makes sense to presume that people like you are Jihadis unless proven otherwise.

#32 by jay on December 23, 2002 5:22am PT
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This westernied whitewashing pakistani has no courrage to accept that what is taught in madrssas to serch and kill the kafirs is not islam. The pathetic biped comes with yet another definition of jihad.
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If some pakistani madarsas teach that does it become the truth?? Similarly you are right what is in the book is to search and kill Kafirs but provided the three conditions are met as I have described in my previous post.
Im clear about this. YOu guys are hung up about being kafirs!! But you are, nothing we can do about it.

By the way Im not a pakistani. It wouldnt have made a difference though if I had been one or a bangladeshi or a srilankan or a singaporean or a american or a chinese.

If some people misuse the concept of Jihad we are not going to wipe it from our books. That kind of editing is the speciliaty of your religion.

No white wash here at all.

Ali87 31

``What exactly is a Jehadi by your definitiion??
Dont mistake our calrity about Islam and our faith in it. We are not as consfused as you think
Jehad is meant for muslims as a nation. nothing wrong in it.
just as it is not wrong for any country to defend itself.
Simalary it is not wrong for any country to go to the aid of another peoples aid if they are suppressed Like bangaladesh intervention. If India was a muslim country and called it jehad it stilll wouldnt be ok by you. but it doesnt matter, You guys are quite a confused lot anyway.
Jehad aslo cant be called by any Non State actor like militant groups. This is quite well known among knowlegeable muslims``

Here goes another pathetic pakistani, providing another definition of what is jihad. Another schooled pakistani, has no conviction nor understanding of that irrelevant book to say that jihad is not the killing of so called ``non-innocent ``, read as kafirs.

Knowledge of religion is to what it is not. This westernied whitewashing pakistani has no courrage to accept that what is taught in madrssas to serch and kill the kafirs is not islam. The pathetic biped comes with yet another definition of jihad.

#25 by ssdhillon on December 21, 2002 8:47am PT
I dont see what you are leading to.
You definitely harbour the same ``Wronged by muslims for centuries mentality`` It is pathetic to see this in a majority vs a 12% minority. hey man get on with life.

As regards with VHP if you say that you are not for them then I have the faith to take you at your face value, Accepted. However what exactly do you mean by calling Jehadi??
What exactly is a Jehadi by your definitiion??
Dont mistake our calrity about Islam and our faith in it. We are not as consfused as you think
Jehad is meant for muslims as a nation. nothing wrong in it.
just as it is not wrong for any country to defend itself.
Simalary it is not wrong for any country to go to the aid of another peoples aid if they are suppressed Like bangaladesh intervention. If India was a muslim country and called it jehad it stilll wouldnt be ok by you. but it doesnt matter, You guys are quite a confused lot anyway.
Jehad aslo cant be called by any Non State actor like militant groups. This is quite well known among knowlegeable muslims.

So if I suscribe to this and you want to call me a Jehadi then I am.
However if you want to tell me that a woman can be beheaded without trial for what is a entremely minor infarction and I suscribe to this they you are a fool. Try some to attempt some intelligent conversation. That you keep on harping on stupid arguments shows how bankrupt your thinking is.
Hey why do you spend so much time on this board if all you do is gripe, unfounded inneundeo,
Looks like you have nothing better to offer. Hey your girpes are allower the site. any suggestions any interaction, any insights?

perhaps you are deeply hurt in your physce and want to get some solace by some one admitting to hurting you. Man if that is the case out with what ever hurts you. If you cant do it on a annoyomous discussion board where else can you.
I suspect that you are victim of the sangh parivar propaganda about how hindus were humiliated for hundreds of years and how your religious sentiments were hurt etc. I personally know a few such disturbed people.

Hey man read history properly if you need help Ill tell you what to read.
I dont know if it helps but remeber if muslims did not come there wouldnt have been any Bhakti movement which was a reaction to the cultural impact of the sufis and not the ghaznis etc. If it was not for Muslims Indian women would still have been prostituting in the temples. You not being a part of the ruling elite your women woulld have had to go almost naked.
Remeber this was the scenario in India in 1500 which was reported both by the muslim travellers as well as chinese and the eruopeans. In fact women in kerala used to go topless even uptil mid late 1800. There was a year long protest by in what is now Kerala because the british forced hindus to abandon the practice of women going without any covering on the chest. Strange the sanghparivar`s depction of women as demure and chaste is actuall some thing you guys picked from the muslims and not a small murmur of thanks for it.
Remeber the time when the upper castes would even not let the shadow of a lower caste come on him. Whole villages were off limits to the dalits.
The women even now have no right to property. Child sacrifice to devis still happens today. islam did give some semblance of humanity to your practices. That is why my ancesteors were among the 40% who left this in human way of life and embraced Islam which even today stands steadfast to the same values. (I thought people valued consistency)
Look honestly Dhillon you will find many reasons to be thankful for tothe Muslims.
Rember the time as recent as 20-30 years back even in cities such as bangalore and Mysore menustrating women are confined to a room outside the house and their plate of food is shoved under the door so that even their face is not visible to the other people.

This is what Islam gave to India. Temples are the places where these practices were preprated and circulated. I have been to a few funerals of my friends parents i still cant get over the waste and dirt uncleaniness of the whole pujas and the scheeming greed of your priestly class. Man Dhillon youshould be great full to Islam that atleast some Indians did not have to wait for the 20 th century to escape this. You should be geatfull that all that you call Hindu rennisance of the bhakti movment, and the other movements in the early 20th century were because of expousre to Islam and the equity it preached.
Sure the people who follow it are not perfect andthat is why it is there to provide a beacon to the right path. Honestly examine your religous practices and strip away the excuses and question your self wether you dont see any good in Islam.
You are welcome to comment, critisize but please be non judgemental at least considering what your religion actaually dictates in fact ponder how much it has changed due toexpousre to Islam.

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But that is all it shall be, should we continue to allow five year-olds charge of our faith
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I guess you are OK with commandos possessing WMDs in charge of our fate. We might be following five-year olds in matters of faith, but we pay taxes to that mafia in uniform called pakistani army.

ref # 26:

for nytimes, 12 in favour and 2 abstentions are deep divisons. u.s. has no hope of competing with china.