Kissinger of Death

Which, Hamid Sahib, is why the left needs to organise across a much broader base and make sure that the media is accountable for recording the variety of discourses taking place. I agree, Ali and Chomksy are preaching to the converted. But if you use the last huge anti war demo in NYC, the NY Times reporter who covered it didnt even leave her/his office to canvass the other MIT hard sciences ph.d or students from the midwest, but quoted them partially and rachetted down the numbers by several thou...I know, I know, this should be nothing new, but we need to be, as you suggested, a bit more active...dillantantism notwithstanding...

#22
Thats what people where saying about USSR, its might and fire-power was greater than USA but what happened to mother Russia? when they entered in Afghanistan, a famous mujhaid leader said that ``They captured Kabul in 2 days but they will need years to get out`` and precisely it costed them 11 years and their confideration to pull out. Now america is doing the same....

smainashah

``....can we prove that counter culture movements do not help define a country`s zeitgeist?``

..... hopefully, over the long run, some of these ideas do ``soften`` the hard attitudes of the establishment which tend to be based on crazy conservative religious and political dogma ......... maybe the green party`s success in germany is a sign of a fundamental change in the german zeitgeist, but i seriously doubt it .......... there is no money in saving whales and cleaning up the the north sea ........ invading iraq is an even better business proposition ............ and the sad part is that most campus protestors like elliott abrams grow up to be rabid neo-conservatives once they grow up and figure out which side of the bread is buttered ..........well-meaning fools and dreamers like chomsky and tariq ali go on to write articles for obscure publications and rant at rave at gatherings of old hippies and deadheads waiting for jerry garcia ..........

............. but that is no reason to stop trying to do the right thing ..........maybe, one of these days..........

Hamidm2,

I dont know....can we prove that counter culture movements do not help define a country`s zeitgeist? On a micro level, feminist/womanist, demilitaristic and third party organizing may not seem to affect the big boys and girls...but they do help students to deconstruct the narratives coming out of Washington and Osama TV...as a participant in several late eighties student groups, it seems to me that period of incubation was as powerful as the theory classes I was taking. Which brings me to my next question; where are the younger generation in these decision making rooms? Why are they not represented?

The other thing is Macro progressivism; we cannot compete with the kind of media complicit resources that our govt. has...any Pacifica station constantly lives each day in fiscal crisis and depends on listener support...either push comes to shove and it gets pulled together in this time of fundamentalist crisis, or things get a lot worse....

Harimau,
I was leaving it you, intrepid reader, to make that connection :)

Arjun,
I dont like Mr. Kissinger because he`s Jewish...give me some credit here. I dislike him because of his questionable roles in South East Asian history...also, didnt get your Pakistani-military point...spell it out for me, pliss?

``When God wants to destroy someone [a nation?] He gives them power and corrupts them`` so, thats the case of America just like the USSR,”(Kashaziz)

don’t hold your breath – it aint happenin soon.

“and look at the history of muslims, after every 300 years of oppression they have risen again.. so wait and see.... the next phoneix is just round the corner...”(kashaziz)

the next phoenix is right here just around the corner on Chowk – his name is -- hamidm

saminashah

......... you are right - folks like osama and kissinger don`t have to do the actual fighting, but there are plenty of fools who are willing to fly planes over cambodia and into tall buildings .........

......... unfortuantely - and i hope urstruly is not listening - the bhang squad doesn`t help much either by protesting on campus, getting stoned, burning bras, holding mock war crime trials and wringing hands ........... but it does make you feel good, and nobody gets hurt .............

RE: #11 should have read

Yaaron kisi Qaatil Say Kabhi PYAAR na maango
Apne hi galay kay liyay Talwaar na maango

(still wonder who wrote that?)

Many paths of wisdom emante from the Bhang Squad here on CHOWK.

e.g.

1) Peace with India

2) Brotherhood of man (and sisterhood of women)

3) Protection of an individual`s democratic rights.

4) The positive aspects of religious practice.

5) Membership to the Bhang Squad without the use of Bhang.


The ``Other Side`` offers ? ? ? ? ?

hamidm2

Someone should really study the percentages of war mongerers and find out how many actually serve....my gut feeling is that once a person has served in a war, they are significantly less interested in perpetuating them...

PBS had a documentary on the organisers of Tianamen Square last night; anyone see it?

Ref saminasha #3

[America`s Republican chickenhawks do not serve in the miliitary;
1. Rush Limbaugh was excused due to an anal cyst.]

Rush Limbaugh IS an anal cyst.

Ref AAmir #5

[That is a pleasant surprise from one of the bhangi squad

urs ana etc.

First Rehan is not Bhangi but ``CHARASI ``....Bhangi(sudra caste ) is so untouchablle aint it Arjun Harami & Jay ??????]

When I read ``bhangi squad``, I thought it meant one of those who use bhang, the intoxicant.

It takes a True Believer, of a Faith that Has No Caste Distinctions, to inform this Brahmin that ``Bhangi`` means ``Dalit``. Such is life in the 21st Century!

Well, look at the history and you will find this ``urooj`` and ``zawal`` of the nations. Now its America`s turn. A famous saying ``When God wants to destroy someone [a nation?] He gives them power and corrupts them`` so, thats the case of America just like the USSr, British Raj, Ottomans, Mughals, Afghans, Abbaisds ... up to the Greeks.

Wait and see the ``zilat`` of muslims as predicted in the ahadeeth [No fiction] ... and look at the history of muslims, after every 300 years of oppression they have risen again.. so wait and see.... the next phoneix is just round the corner...

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Yaaron kisi Qaatil Say Kabhi Talwaar na maango
Apne hi galay kay liyay Talwaar na maango

(wonder who wrote that?)

Ras

........ the bhang squad has always led the protests against war criminals like kissinger and tiger niazi, while the squeaky clean conservatives like urstruly signed up with the marines and al-shams and al-badr to kill cambodians and maim bengalis ............today the same conservatives, on both sides of allah`s great divide, are beating the drums of war, drowning out the protests of the bhang squad .............the mullah and his soulmate, the southern baptist, both praise the lord as they pass the ammunition .........

.......... it is better to praise sain baba and pass the roach ............allah hoo.....