Farzana Versey December 11, 2002
#43 Posted by Layman on December 13, 2002 6:09:27 am
Romair #18:
``But I still cannot understand the following:
``Why are all these people now so surprised at how the BJP is handling the Indian Muslims, when it mentioned, years ago, in a straight forward manner in its own manifesto that this is exactly what it was going to do?
``India, unlike Pakistan, is not a feudal society, and its people are far more liberated when it comes to opportunities for selecting their leaders. Blaming Modi, Vajpayee and Advani only is not correct. The blame for whatever is being done by the BJP needs to placed on the people who vote(d) for them. After all, BJP is doing exactly what it promised its voters it would do. If anything, it has actually watered down its stance due to the NDA, in comparison to what it said it would do in its manifesto.``
Well, afaik, BJP did not promise in its manifesto that it would create riots or kill muslims! Voters do not elect parties to break the law, so do not blame the voters. Unfortunately, in most elections, the choice for the conscentious voter is amongst communalism, corruption and casteism.
``But I still cannot understand the following:
``Why are all these people now so surprised at how the BJP is handling the Indian Muslims, when it mentioned, years ago, in a straight forward manner in its own manifesto that this is exactly what it was going to do?
``India, unlike Pakistan, is not a feudal society, and its people are far more liberated when it comes to opportunities for selecting their leaders. Blaming Modi, Vajpayee and Advani only is not correct. The blame for whatever is being done by the BJP needs to placed on the people who vote(d) for them. After all, BJP is doing exactly what it promised its voters it would do. If anything, it has actually watered down its stance due to the NDA, in comparison to what it said it would do in its manifesto.``
Well, afaik, BJP did not promise in its manifesto that it would create riots or kill muslims! Voters do not elect parties to break the law, so do not blame the voters. Unfortunately, in most elections, the choice for the conscentious voter is amongst communalism, corruption and casteism.
#42 Posted by Layman on December 13, 2002 6:09:27 am
Farzana,
``Be sure of one thing: these elections will be rigged, and the winner will be the party that is better at booth-capturing, horse-trading and monkeying around.``
With a statement like this, do you still wonder why intelligent readers disagree with your writing?
``Be sure of one thing: these elections will be rigged, and the winner will be the party that is better at booth-capturing, horse-trading and monkeying around.``
With a statement like this, do you still wonder why intelligent readers disagree with your writing?
#41 Posted by harimau on December 13, 2002 6:09:26 am
So, Farzana, sweetheart, you are back!
I suppose you went on some long investigative trip to Gujarat for the last several months so that you can write articles which unfortunately only evoke disheartening feedback.
Did you -- or any of those journalists who have been decrying the BJP -- ever find out what happened to the Muslim tea vendor`s daughter who was kidnapped at Godhra? Did she perish in the fire in the train? Or, did Allah safely retrieve the one True Believer from the clutches of the Infidels?
Did the angel Gibreel lock the doors of that compartment carrying the kaffir pilgrims from outside for their sin of singing bhajans in praise of a false God, and an idol at that? Do you think it is blasphemous that a miracle like locking the doors from outside occurs but the incendiary used is kerosene, something that is not mentioned in Al-Kitab? Or did Allah specifically ensure that this particular batch of kerosene was refined from oil imported from Saudi Arabia?
Exactly how many rupees and paise did these thugs owe the Muslim vendor? I am asking so that we can divide that by 59 and find out what is the value of a Hindu life in a Hindu-majority country. Do you think it would be higher or lower than in a Muslim-majority country or when Delhi was ruled by Muslim sultans?
You have had several months to find out what happened at Godhra, why it happened and how it happened. When you write a truthful article about that, the feedback won`t be disheartening.
I suppose you went on some long investigative trip to Gujarat for the last several months so that you can write articles which unfortunately only evoke disheartening feedback.
Did you -- or any of those journalists who have been decrying the BJP -- ever find out what happened to the Muslim tea vendor`s daughter who was kidnapped at Godhra? Did she perish in the fire in the train? Or, did Allah safely retrieve the one True Believer from the clutches of the Infidels?
Did the angel Gibreel lock the doors of that compartment carrying the kaffir pilgrims from outside for their sin of singing bhajans in praise of a false God, and an idol at that? Do you think it is blasphemous that a miracle like locking the doors from outside occurs but the incendiary used is kerosene, something that is not mentioned in Al-Kitab? Or did Allah specifically ensure that this particular batch of kerosene was refined from oil imported from Saudi Arabia?
Exactly how many rupees and paise did these thugs owe the Muslim vendor? I am asking so that we can divide that by 59 and find out what is the value of a Hindu life in a Hindu-majority country. Do you think it would be higher or lower than in a Muslim-majority country or when Delhi was ruled by Muslim sultans?
You have had several months to find out what happened at Godhra, why it happened and how it happened. When you write a truthful article about that, the feedback won`t be disheartening.
#40 Posted by Trillium on December 13, 2002 6:09:26 am
It`s never long enough between F.V. heavy-handed contributions to Chowk. She`s done the impossible yet again! She`s nailed the metaphorical Jello to the wall... and, as usual, it ceases to be Jello and becomes a wall of autographed nails. `Farzana-The-Hammer` strikes again...
#39 Posted by Urstruly on December 13, 2002 6:09:26 am
SAVE ME FROM YOUR DEMOCRACY

Look at this face……..look hard….and try to imagine your face in its place. This is the face of a man who is crying and begging for his life but he knows very well that he is about to die…..a horrible death……..a punishing death……a punishment that only Divinity has reserved for Himself. This is the face of a sacrificial lamb, who is bleating its cries of pain for the last time at the altar. And the altar is that of Democracy and Secularism. This is not the face of a man, this is the face of ultimate desperation incarnated in human form.
It is a day of ultimate shame for humanity when people are left with no shame using the words Election and Gujarat in the same sentence. Elections? Elections my ass! Election of whom? That who can murder the most Muslims in least amount of time? Elections? Election of whom? That who can get away with the murder in broad daylight and still claim to be democratic and secular? So much pain….so much suffering….why doesn`t God just takes away our sense of seeing, hearing, and understanding for He makes us crush under the unbearable weight of our own conscience. Why He doesn`t make us just like them; heartless and cold, those who have no shame looking into the eyes of this man and saying the words ``democracy`` and ``secularism``.
But if you have eyes and ears and you still have your cognitive abilities intact, and you have just one drop of shame left in your eyes, you will see that this is not the face of a Muslim from Gujrat; this is also the face of a Muslim in Afghanistan; this is a face of a Muslim in Iraq; this is the face of a Muslim in Kashmir; this is the face of a Muslim in Chechnya; this is the face of a Muslim in Palestine. ……..this is the face of a Muslim. This is the face of Muslim of this world with tears in his eyes, his hands tied, begging and crying, saying that save me from your Democracy…..save me from your Secularism. This is the face of a human being.
#38 Posted by rsridhar on December 12, 2002 10:50:31 pm
re:#17 by Pankaj
Pankaj,
This writer treads the same beaten track, like a broken gramaphone record. Her articles have the same theme. She wil usually start with accusations against majority community, then try to take on the establishment itself and end up discrediting the majority community. She usually has no solutions to offer. In the past, she had displayed a ``whining`` streak, thankfully absent in this piece. There is nothing much to commend about this article.
The last para ``Be sure of one thing: these elections will be rigged, and the winner will be the party that is better at booth-capturing, horse-trading and monkeying around....`` says something about the state of author`s mind. Here, the author, while taking advantage of the freedom the system provides, does not seem to appreciate what goes to make the system free. As you rightly said, elections in India have been largely free and transparent. We can often see it down south where BJP gets thrashed regularly (along with Congess) in all elections (local parties are the prime players there). BJP has not done well in past 2 years in any of the state elections. Hence, this new expt with hindutva and polarisation of votes.
Election Commission is an autonomous body. However, it can function only if election frauds are brought to the notice of the commission. Press plays a great role here. One wonders what the author`s contribution has been in this regard. Has she covered the election in Gujarat? Did she sees any rigging? If so, what did she, as a journalist, do about it. As Mao tse Tung crudely put it ``a loud fart is better than a long speech``.
Sridhar
Pankaj,
This writer treads the same beaten track, like a broken gramaphone record. Her articles have the same theme. She wil usually start with accusations against majority community, then try to take on the establishment itself and end up discrediting the majority community. She usually has no solutions to offer. In the past, she had displayed a ``whining`` streak, thankfully absent in this piece. There is nothing much to commend about this article.
The last para ``Be sure of one thing: these elections will be rigged, and the winner will be the party that is better at booth-capturing, horse-trading and monkeying around....`` says something about the state of author`s mind. Here, the author, while taking advantage of the freedom the system provides, does not seem to appreciate what goes to make the system free. As you rightly said, elections in India have been largely free and transparent. We can often see it down south where BJP gets thrashed regularly (along with Congess) in all elections (local parties are the prime players there). BJP has not done well in past 2 years in any of the state elections. Hence, this new expt with hindutva and polarisation of votes.
Election Commission is an autonomous body. However, it can function only if election frauds are brought to the notice of the commission. Press plays a great role here. One wonders what the author`s contribution has been in this regard. Has she covered the election in Gujarat? Did she sees any rigging? If so, what did she, as a journalist, do about it. As Mao tse Tung crudely put it ``a loud fart is better than a long speech``.
Sridhar
#37 Posted by rsridhar on December 12, 2002 10:50:31 pm
#18 by Romair
``If the BJP wins, would it indicate that India wants to hold on to Hinduvta, if not in power, at least in opposition?``
Enlighten me on the above sentence, Sherlock. Even a village idiot knows India is not a homogenous entity. Gujarat may be polarised but TN, Kerala, Karnataka, MP etc do not feel any compulsion to follow suit.
The only thing a win by Modi will do is to justify Hindutva as a ``vote getting`` theme in future elections. This will be fiercely opposed in other states. Remember, BJP holds power only in 3 or 4 of the 29 odd states in the Indian union, a pathetic performance indeed!
Hence, also the reason for this new expt in which the party heavyweights like ABV, LKA are acting like innocent bystanders pretending like they are not entirely happy with what Modi is doing but in reality waiting with bated breaths to see if this new expt succeeds. If it does, it will change the way BJP will think in future (i say BJP and not India; the 2 or not the same). If it fails, Modi will be shown the door and BJP will go back to its moderate ways. Afterall, ABV is still regarded a moderate (at least he pretends to be so).
Sridhar
``If the BJP wins, would it indicate that India wants to hold on to Hinduvta, if not in power, at least in opposition?``
Enlighten me on the above sentence, Sherlock. Even a village idiot knows India is not a homogenous entity. Gujarat may be polarised but TN, Kerala, Karnataka, MP etc do not feel any compulsion to follow suit.
The only thing a win by Modi will do is to justify Hindutva as a ``vote getting`` theme in future elections. This will be fiercely opposed in other states. Remember, BJP holds power only in 3 or 4 of the 29 odd states in the Indian union, a pathetic performance indeed!
Hence, also the reason for this new expt in which the party heavyweights like ABV, LKA are acting like innocent bystanders pretending like they are not entirely happy with what Modi is doing but in reality waiting with bated breaths to see if this new expt succeeds. If it does, it will change the way BJP will think in future (i say BJP and not India; the 2 or not the same). If it fails, Modi will be shown the door and BJP will go back to its moderate ways. Afterall, ABV is still regarded a moderate (at least he pretends to be so).
Sridhar
#36 Posted by QuantumQuark on December 12, 2002 10:50:31 pm
Farzana,
Your article is but a cantankerous tirade.
Logic is substituted with volcanic emotions.
Sarcasm and satire alone do not make a Voltaire.
Sarcasm without class is garbage nevertheless.
Significantly insignificant,
Quantum Quark
Your article is but a cantankerous tirade.
Logic is substituted with volcanic emotions.
Sarcasm and satire alone do not make a Voltaire.
Sarcasm without class is garbage nevertheless.
Significantly insignificant,
Quantum Quark
#35 Posted by HN on December 12, 2002 10:50:31 pm
Farzana,
Passionately written. The only way you know..I guess.
I wonder if your first sentence is NOT BJP propaganda...what they want is convert the elections in Gujarat into a national referendum on INdia`s future. That is exactly their spin, selling Gujarat elections where they hoped to ride the polarisation along religious line to a runaway victory. Lyngdoh and a lately-aware bureaucracy and a resurgent Congress has dampened their initial optimism, though by all accounts they are still favourites to win by a thin margin. The virus strain they had developed in the ``Gujarat Lab``...would not be as saleable now elsewhere in Inida.
HN
Passionately written. The only way you know..I guess.
I wonder if your first sentence is NOT BJP propaganda...what they want is convert the elections in Gujarat into a national referendum on INdia`s future. That is exactly their spin, selling Gujarat elections where they hoped to ride the polarisation along religious line to a runaway victory. Lyngdoh and a lately-aware bureaucracy and a resurgent Congress has dampened their initial optimism, though by all accounts they are still favourites to win by a thin margin. The virus strain they had developed in the ``Gujarat Lab``...would not be as saleable now elsewhere in Inida.
HN
#34 Posted by rsridhar on December 12, 2002 9:06:21 pm
re:#19 by qusman1
Modi will become India`s pm one day!
Fortunately, democracy works differently. It is like a tug of war. Only, all factions have a say in this ``tug of war``. Modi faction dominates in Gujarat the way Thackeray facition ruled the roost in Maharashtra in the past. Did Thackeray become PM? Heck, no. Educate yourself how democracy functions. Most of us secular people would like to see Modi defeated but if he wins, we will live to fight another day. Nothing is lost. India is not so weak as to succumb to the hatred of a lunatic.
Sridhar
Modi will become India`s pm one day!
Fortunately, democracy works differently. It is like a tug of war. Only, all factions have a say in this ``tug of war``. Modi faction dominates in Gujarat the way Thackeray facition ruled the roost in Maharashtra in the past. Did Thackeray become PM? Heck, no. Educate yourself how democracy functions. Most of us secular people would like to see Modi defeated but if he wins, we will live to fight another day. Nothing is lost. India is not so weak as to succumb to the hatred of a lunatic.
Sridhar
#33 Posted by m_souza on December 12, 2002 8:52:30 pm
Why do people keep repeating that the outcome of the Gujarat polls will judge the future of the rest of India?
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
#32 Posted by m_souza on December 12, 2002 8:52:30 pm
Why do people keep repeating that the outcome of the Gujarat polls will judge the future of the rest of India?
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
#30 Posted by Ras on December 12, 2002 8:52:29 pm
Welcome back FV...
Your absence here was noted by many.
Hope that all is well.
This writing certainly displays a lot of range.
Many observations and personalities are encountered here.
Personally, I believe that Vajpayee is the better face of the BJP copared to Modi, Advani etc.
Gujrat is a scar that will not leave Indian history easily.
Like another article concerning Muslims currently here on CHOWK, one can hope that MODERATE HINDUS will prevail in India or the country will lose all its recent gains.
Ras
#29 Posted by Humsab on December 12, 2002 8:52:29 pm
BJP winning in Gujarat does not mean a thing until and unless it gets heavy mandate. Excerpts from the report:-
Exit polls give Gujarat to BJP
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, DECEMBER 12, 2002 08:01:17 PM ]
Reflecting this warning, the mood in the BJP here was sombre rather than upbeat. A senior Cabinet minister, watching the exit polls on TV said, ``If we just make it, we won`t gain very much from this victory. Of course, if we lose, it will damage us very much in the coming assembly elections.``
Given the BJP`s self-created hype of a `Hindu wave` sweeping Gujarat to restore the state`s ``gaurav``, a simple majority would be — as a BJP leader put it — ``at least a slap on the wrist for us``. A narrow win — or loss — would mean its attempt to return to the Hindutva agenda would have been negated. ``After this, I don`t think we can replicate the Gujarat experiment anywhere else,`` a party leader said.
Underlying this ``caution``, of course, is the fact that Modi has annoyed so many BJP leaders that there are mixed feelings about his winning an election at all. Asked whether a BJP victory for Modi would put him ahead of others in the party, a peer said, ``If he just scrapes through, Modi will just be chief minister, nothing more,`` adding that the party`s regional leaders in the past have never actually made it in Delhi.
Exit polls give Gujarat to BJP
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, DECEMBER 12, 2002 08:01:17 PM ]
Reflecting this warning, the mood in the BJP here was sombre rather than upbeat. A senior Cabinet minister, watching the exit polls on TV said, ``If we just make it, we won`t gain very much from this victory. Of course, if we lose, it will damage us very much in the coming assembly elections.``
Given the BJP`s self-created hype of a `Hindu wave` sweeping Gujarat to restore the state`s ``gaurav``, a simple majority would be — as a BJP leader put it — ``at least a slap on the wrist for us``. A narrow win — or loss — would mean its attempt to return to the Hindutva agenda would have been negated. ``After this, I don`t think we can replicate the Gujarat experiment anywhere else,`` a party leader said.
Underlying this ``caution``, of course, is the fact that Modi has annoyed so many BJP leaders that there are mixed feelings about his winning an election at all. Asked whether a BJP victory for Modi would put him ahead of others in the party, a peer said, ``If he just scrapes through, Modi will just be chief minister, nothing more,`` adding that the party`s regional leaders in the past have never actually made it in Delhi.
#28 Posted by rsridhar on December 12, 2002 8:52:29 pm
re:#26 by Pankaj
``Gujrat was the engine of growth for India charting above 8% growth figures``
You obviously are unaware of the fact that growth rate in gujarat in recent times have been less than 2%. The engine of growth lies in South, driven by Software companies in Bangalore and Hyderabad. All that Gujjus are capable of doing is: buying and selling Shares in ``Satta Bazaar`` which does not require much of a brain. Now, to the love for money is added hatred for muslims. This seem to have been indoctrined in the past 15 years or so by the pro-BJP elements in the state. This is what will become of whole of India if every Indian starts thinking and acting like a Gujju. The saving grace is everyone does not and therein lies our hope.
Sridhar
``Gujrat was the engine of growth for India charting above 8% growth figures``
You obviously are unaware of the fact that growth rate in gujarat in recent times have been less than 2%. The engine of growth lies in South, driven by Software companies in Bangalore and Hyderabad. All that Gujjus are capable of doing is: buying and selling Shares in ``Satta Bazaar`` which does not require much of a brain. Now, to the love for money is added hatred for muslims. This seem to have been indoctrined in the past 15 years or so by the pro-BJP elements in the state. This is what will become of whole of India if every Indian starts thinking and acting like a Gujju. The saving grace is everyone does not and therein lies our hope.
Sridhar
#27 Posted by m_souza on December 12, 2002 6:55:34 pm
Farzana means to day...not a single one of the mentioned leaders is good. I think we should import Musshi Uncle from India..after all he is also in the same boat as Advani. Come back home mate..
``Advani is from Karachi but now trying desperately to find a place for himself by becoming a religious fanatic``..says Farzana
But Musharraf is from Delhi and so desperately trying to plesse the Mullahs and Jamalis...desperately trying to proove that he is not a Mohajir.
These things have been going on since times immemorial...Babar, Ghazni, Ghauri, Tamurlaine, Changhez Khan...all of them must have scared the wits out of the local Hindus of the Mediveal India. But all present day Muslims hail them as heros...the very people who changed the `naksha` of our country yt destruction and conversions... so much so that the trouble is never ending.. All that is happenign today is the long drawn consequence of what happened years ago.
So, just like that Mediveal phase did not stay...this will also go away...maybe once Hindus find thier lost glory
``Advani is from Karachi but now trying desperately to find a place for himself by becoming a religious fanatic``..says Farzana
But Musharraf is from Delhi and so desperately trying to plesse the Mullahs and Jamalis...desperately trying to proove that he is not a Mohajir.
These things have been going on since times immemorial...Babar, Ghazni, Ghauri, Tamurlaine, Changhez Khan...all of them must have scared the wits out of the local Hindus of the Mediveal India. But all present day Muslims hail them as heros...the very people who changed the `naksha` of our country yt destruction and conversions... so much so that the trouble is never ending.. All that is happenign today is the long drawn consequence of what happened years ago.
So, just like that Mediveal phase did not stay...this will also go away...maybe once Hindus find thier lost glory
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