Farzana Versey December 11, 2002
#26 Posted by Pankaj on December 12, 2002 6:52:39 pm
I do not remember any leader in modern India who was chided and condemned more than Modi. I guess one will be hard pressed to find well educated men and women who can eulogise Modi in open. The media condemned Modi; especially the national level newspapers came all out against Modi. Yet this man appears to succeed in elections. I would be pleasantly surprised if I am proved wrong. But I am afraid that I am right considering the exit polls. Elections in India are mostly free and fair with a very few exceptions. Economy could not be the reason as a look on the State GDP would show. Gujrat was the engine of growth for India charting above 8% growth figures. Illiteracy could not be the reason for Gujrat is one of the more literate states. Obviously secular forces have their ``paap ka pitara`` and their previous Karmas are haunting them. It is time for the secular forces to know their opponent and analyze their own weaknesses. Only a dispassionate analysis could reveal why development issue failed to strike a chord with the masses and lost to the VHP antics. Perhaps it is time for introspection on the future direction India needs to take.
#25 Posted by Urstruly on December 12, 2002 6:52:38 pm
Chowk Staff Please
Where is my post please. Is it censored please. If it is censored then why it is censored. Since when you have started censoring posts? I am starting to get disappointed; I am so appalled I can`t even say ``welcome back`` to Farzana; if our posts are going to be censored then what`s the use?
#24 Posted by Shah on December 12, 2002 4:34:25 pm
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#23 Posted by einsteinwallah on December 12, 2002 3:53:34 pm
[ #21 by the_happy_one on December 12, 2002 2:07pm PT
...
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
...
This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana?
...
]
Does anybody remember? We did not even know. No question about remembering because in the first place we did not know it so we did not forget it. Or may be the question is addressed to urdu speaking people? Did the people, who entered Sabarmati Express carrying gasoline cans, knew about this? Or, forgetting of this gems occured at another level? May be their parents simply forgot to sing these songs because somebody told them that they are unislamic? I am thinking who may be such a bad guy who would say something like that? You would perhaps not accept Jinnah or Suhrawardy as the answer. Would you?
-einsteinwallah
PS: Thank you the_happy_one for posting such a nice piece by Naqvi. Frankly I did not know many of things he writes. -ew
...
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
...
This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana?
...
]
Does anybody remember? We did not even know. No question about remembering because in the first place we did not know it so we did not forget it. Or may be the question is addressed to urdu speaking people? Did the people, who entered Sabarmati Express carrying gasoline cans, knew about this? Or, forgetting of this gems occured at another level? May be their parents simply forgot to sing these songs because somebody told them that they are unislamic? I am thinking who may be such a bad guy who would say something like that? You would perhaps not accept Jinnah or Suhrawardy as the answer. Would you?
-einsteinwallah
PS: Thank you the_happy_one for posting such a nice piece by Naqvi. Frankly I did not know many of things he writes. -ew
#22 Posted by Ralph on December 12, 2002 3:00:33 pm
It is frightening to see someone like Modi rise to power in Gujrat.
#21 Posted by qusman1 on December 12, 2002 2:07:33 pm
Something I`ve noted in my interactions with Hindu Gujaratis from India is a sense of strong religious polarization in their society. So you hear of `Gujaratis` as against `Muslims`, while in Pakistan, we`ll use `Gujarati` for a Memon or a Hindu. Note that Gujarati newspapers coming out in Karachi use the common script (which evolved from cursive Devanagari).
Anyway, to the `Mera Bhaarat Mahaan Brigade` I say: Keep scratching your heads in dismay. Modi will probably end up as your PM. And he`ll ride a chariot pulled by your obsessive forward-caste delusions and complexes over Pakistan.
#20 Posted by arjun_m on December 12, 2002 2:07:33 pm
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#19 Posted by the_happy_one on December 12, 2002 2:07:33 pm
Hi Farzana:
You make so many gaffes to begin with that it’s hard to continue reading your ‘articles’. Like someone pointed out Ravana neither had a tail nor used it to burn anything. And if you have Gujarati roots how come you used the expression ‘Modibhai’? Anybody who was even half way familiar with Gujarati expression wouldn’t use the suffix ‘bhai’ after a surname. Maybe your disappointment in the fact that your intelligent readers tend to disagree with you is misplaced after all. I mean if they loyally read your stuff how intelligent can they really be?
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
I have tried to induce in myself a nostalgia, some sort of emotion, on the 10th anniversary of the fall of Babri Masjid and have drawn a blank. In another context, Wordsworth talked of the loss of that ‘visionary gleam’. Possibly, something inside me has dried up.
In my years as a journalist I have reverted repeatedly to my village, Mustafabad, near Rae Bareli, where my earliest sensibilities were shaped by grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and, above all, my father and mother. Ours was a Muslim home, a mosque dominating our courtyard. But the cultural derivatives of this Islam were set against a broad Hindu civilisational framework. It was not something we discussed. It was something we lived.
Our marriage rituals were rituals of Avadh and therefore, I dare say, Hindu. If one of our cousins was in the family way my mother would arrange for Aseemun to be around for the childbirth. How could a baby be born in our house without Aseemun singing in her full-throated style, my mother’s favourite sohar, song sung at childbirth in our villages. Allah mian hamare bhaiyya ka diyo nand Lal (Oh my Allah give my brother a son like Lord Krishna). The controller of ceremonies, both at weddings and at childbirth, was the nawan, or the barber’s wife. Whether Hindu or Muslim, she brought into the rituals and the festivities the cultural elements of the Hindu countryside.
Even our religious poetry was occasionally cast in a Hindu ambience. The greatest epics on various aspects of the tragedy of Karbala were written by Mir Anis who is regarded as the greatest master of Urdu diction. These poems, or Marsias, are the staple at most Moharram congregations particularly in areas around Avadh.
Even though all of Anis’s characters like Imam Hussain, the prophet’s grandson, Abbas, his brother, Zainab, his sister and a range of sisters and daughters-in-law, are historically Arab, Anis has delineated his characters as quintessentially Avadhi. In their speech and demeanour they come across as Indian. Bano-e-nek naam ki kheti, hari rahey/ Sandal se maang, bachchon/ Se godi bhari rahey (May the parting in Bano’s hair always carry a streak of sandalwood and may her house always be filled with the laughter of children).
My grandmother could actually recite passages from Padmavat, the classic in Avadhi written by Malik Mohammad Jaisi. This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana? That somewhat ravaged monument at the entrance of Nizamuddin East in New Delhi is his tomb.
And what of Saiyid Ibrahim Raskhan’s unparalleled adoration for that ‘naughty boy from Gokul’ or Salbeg’s lyrics on Jagannath never sung better than by Sikandar Alam. Or Nazir Akbarabadi on Krishna Raas, Mahadev, Guru Nanak. And if you have had enough of the 19th century let me introduce you to modern poets. Krishn ka hun pujari/ Ali ka banda hoon/ Yagana shaan-e-khuda/ Dekh kar raha na Gaya (I am a pujari of Krishna and a devotee of Ali/ I cannot help myself when I see the wonders of God).
Just in case you didn’t know, the longest running serial, Mahabharat, which almost transformed Hinduism into a congregational religion, was written by Masoom Raza Rahi.
And why restrict ourselves to literature? Ustad Fayyaz Khan had a series of compositions but of none was he more proud than: Manmohan Braj ke Rasiya (Colourful Krishna in Braj land). Visit Ustad Alauddin Khan’s house in Maihar and you will be witness to one of the great spectacles of composite culture. The great master said his namaaz five times a day but his music he derived from Saraswati, who adorns all the walls of his house.
When my friend Raghu Rai and I visited Malikarjun Mansoor, Gangubai Hangal and Bhimsen Joshi, prominent on their walls were photographs of their respective gurus, Manjhe Khan and Ustad Abdul Karim Khan. Ibrahim Adil Shah, the King of Bijapur in the 18th century begins his great work on music Kitaab-e-Nauras with Saraswati Vandana. Had Dara Shikoh not translated the Upanishads into Persian, the transmission of Hindu thought to the West would have had to rely on some other route.
I have not even mentioned Khushi Mohammad, the pujari who looks after Goga Merhi temple in Ganganagar and Adam Malik from Baktot village in Pahalgam who discovered the Amarnath shrine. One third of the proceeds from the shrine to this day go to the descendents of Mailk.
But in the 10th year of the destruction of the Babri Masjid, none of this seems relevant. Would Modi, Singhal or Togadia understand any of this? They were not around when I went out and made 50 short films on these themes. Oh the passion with which I undertook the expedition. Except for my cousin Jimmy’s mad pursuit of these themes, I was alone even then. Today I feel different, probably lonely and there is a difference.
You make so many gaffes to begin with that it’s hard to continue reading your ‘articles’. Like someone pointed out Ravana neither had a tail nor used it to burn anything. And if you have Gujarati roots how come you used the expression ‘Modibhai’? Anybody who was even half way familiar with Gujarati expression wouldn’t use the suffix ‘bhai’ after a surname. Maybe your disappointment in the fact that your intelligent readers tend to disagree with you is misplaced after all. I mean if they loyally read your stuff how intelligent can they really be?
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
I have tried to induce in myself a nostalgia, some sort of emotion, on the 10th anniversary of the fall of Babri Masjid and have drawn a blank. In another context, Wordsworth talked of the loss of that ‘visionary gleam’. Possibly, something inside me has dried up.
In my years as a journalist I have reverted repeatedly to my village, Mustafabad, near Rae Bareli, where my earliest sensibilities were shaped by grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and, above all, my father and mother. Ours was a Muslim home, a mosque dominating our courtyard. But the cultural derivatives of this Islam were set against a broad Hindu civilisational framework. It was not something we discussed. It was something we lived.
Our marriage rituals were rituals of Avadh and therefore, I dare say, Hindu. If one of our cousins was in the family way my mother would arrange for Aseemun to be around for the childbirth. How could a baby be born in our house without Aseemun singing in her full-throated style, my mother’s favourite sohar, song sung at childbirth in our villages. Allah mian hamare bhaiyya ka diyo nand Lal (Oh my Allah give my brother a son like Lord Krishna). The controller of ceremonies, both at weddings and at childbirth, was the nawan, or the barber’s wife. Whether Hindu or Muslim, she brought into the rituals and the festivities the cultural elements of the Hindu countryside.
Even our religious poetry was occasionally cast in a Hindu ambience. The greatest epics on various aspects of the tragedy of Karbala were written by Mir Anis who is regarded as the greatest master of Urdu diction. These poems, or Marsias, are the staple at most Moharram congregations particularly in areas around Avadh.
Even though all of Anis’s characters like Imam Hussain, the prophet’s grandson, Abbas, his brother, Zainab, his sister and a range of sisters and daughters-in-law, are historically Arab, Anis has delineated his characters as quintessentially Avadhi. In their speech and demeanour they come across as Indian. Bano-e-nek naam ki kheti, hari rahey/ Sandal se maang, bachchon/ Se godi bhari rahey (May the parting in Bano’s hair always carry a streak of sandalwood and may her house always be filled with the laughter of children).
My grandmother could actually recite passages from Padmavat, the classic in Avadhi written by Malik Mohammad Jaisi. This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana? That somewhat ravaged monument at the entrance of Nizamuddin East in New Delhi is his tomb.
And what of Saiyid Ibrahim Raskhan’s unparalleled adoration for that ‘naughty boy from Gokul’ or Salbeg’s lyrics on Jagannath never sung better than by Sikandar Alam. Or Nazir Akbarabadi on Krishna Raas, Mahadev, Guru Nanak. And if you have had enough of the 19th century let me introduce you to modern poets. Krishn ka hun pujari/ Ali ka banda hoon/ Yagana shaan-e-khuda/ Dekh kar raha na Gaya (I am a pujari of Krishna and a devotee of Ali/ I cannot help myself when I see the wonders of God).
Just in case you didn’t know, the longest running serial, Mahabharat, which almost transformed Hinduism into a congregational religion, was written by Masoom Raza Rahi.
And why restrict ourselves to literature? Ustad Fayyaz Khan had a series of compositions but of none was he more proud than: Manmohan Braj ke Rasiya (Colourful Krishna in Braj land). Visit Ustad Alauddin Khan’s house in Maihar and you will be witness to one of the great spectacles of composite culture. The great master said his namaaz five times a day but his music he derived from Saraswati, who adorns all the walls of his house.
When my friend Raghu Rai and I visited Malikarjun Mansoor, Gangubai Hangal and Bhimsen Joshi, prominent on their walls were photographs of their respective gurus, Manjhe Khan and Ustad Abdul Karim Khan. Ibrahim Adil Shah, the King of Bijapur in the 18th century begins his great work on music Kitaab-e-Nauras with Saraswati Vandana. Had Dara Shikoh not translated the Upanishads into Persian, the transmission of Hindu thought to the West would have had to rely on some other route.
I have not even mentioned Khushi Mohammad, the pujari who looks after Goga Merhi temple in Ganganagar and Adam Malik from Baktot village in Pahalgam who discovered the Amarnath shrine. One third of the proceeds from the shrine to this day go to the descendents of Mailk.
But in the 10th year of the destruction of the Babri Masjid, none of this seems relevant. Would Modi, Singhal or Togadia understand any of this? They were not around when I went out and made 50 short films on these themes. Oh the passion with which I undertook the expedition. Except for my cousin Jimmy’s mad pursuit of these themes, I was alone even then. Today I feel different, probably lonely and there is a difference.
#18 Posted by Romair on December 12, 2002 2:07:32 pm
The Gujrat elections are turning into an interesting test lab. If the BJP wins, would it indicate that India wants to hold on to Hinduvta, if not in power, at least in opposition? I would say yes.
If BJP loses, and then loses some more in other areas, and eventually is not the main opposition either, then one would have to say that India has truly passed through a crisis and has established, if not a first world, then at least a second world stable democracy.
What I cannot understand is how the BJP got into power in the first place. Two years ago, I used to quote directly from the BJP website, www.bjp.org, about the violently anti-Muslim attitudes of the BJP. I would point out that if a party states anti-Muslim lines directly on their own website, then it must mean what it says. I had mentioned that sooner or later another Babri Mosque type incidence would occur. It was obvious and it did occcur after Godhra. But again and again, so many Indians would defend the BJP and would accuse me of selective quoting. One even mentioned that the website represented the views of a misguided webmaster and not of the BJP.
Luckily, now everyone seems to have jumped on the anti-BJP bandwagon. Quite a few Johnny-come-latelys. Even the BJP`s stauchest supporters on this site are no longer defending it, and no one accuses me of selective quoting. But I still cannot understand the following:
Why are all these people now so surprised at how the BJP is handling the Indian Muslims, when it mentioned, years ago, in a straight forward manner in its own manifesto that this is exactly what it was going to do?
India, unlike Pakistan, is not a feudal society, and its people are far more liberated when it comes to opportunities for selecting their leaders. Blaming Modi, Vajpayee and Advani only is not correct. The blame for whatever is being done by the BJP needs to placed on the people who vote(d) for them. After all, BJP is doing exactly what it promised its voters it would do. If anything, it has actually watered down its stance due to the NDA, in comparison to what it said it would do in its manifesto.
If BJP loses, and then loses some more in other areas, and eventually is not the main opposition either, then one would have to say that India has truly passed through a crisis and has established, if not a first world, then at least a second world stable democracy.
What I cannot understand is how the BJP got into power in the first place. Two years ago, I used to quote directly from the BJP website, www.bjp.org, about the violently anti-Muslim attitudes of the BJP. I would point out that if a party states anti-Muslim lines directly on their own website, then it must mean what it says. I had mentioned that sooner or later another Babri Mosque type incidence would occur. It was obvious and it did occcur after Godhra. But again and again, so many Indians would defend the BJP and would accuse me of selective quoting. One even mentioned that the website represented the views of a misguided webmaster and not of the BJP.
Luckily, now everyone seems to have jumped on the anti-BJP bandwagon. Quite a few Johnny-come-latelys. Even the BJP`s stauchest supporters on this site are no longer defending it, and no one accuses me of selective quoting. But I still cannot understand the following:
Why are all these people now so surprised at how the BJP is handling the Indian Muslims, when it mentioned, years ago, in a straight forward manner in its own manifesto that this is exactly what it was going to do?
India, unlike Pakistan, is not a feudal society, and its people are far more liberated when it comes to opportunities for selecting their leaders. Blaming Modi, Vajpayee and Advani only is not correct. The blame for whatever is being done by the BJP needs to placed on the people who vote(d) for them. After all, BJP is doing exactly what it promised its voters it would do. If anything, it has actually watered down its stance due to the NDA, in comparison to what it said it would do in its manifesto.
#17 Posted by Pankaj on December 12, 2002 8:56:37 am
As far as portrayal of various characters of the drama is unconcerned, I completely agree with this article. Infact a strong case could be made out of the material that already exists against Modia and company. But if anybody wants a lesson on how to botch up your strong case, this article is an excellent testimony. Leave aside the trivial mistakes made by the author for the time being regarding Ramayana and focus on the two paras below:
1. ``We have so much culture. 44 people died, 100 were injured but not one pillar of the Rs. 60 crore Swaminarayan Temple was harmed. We are knowing how to preserve our heritage. Gujaratis must export this technology (this is one thing the Yankees cannot patent, no?). I am giving you all this idea because I am now respecting you. You know how to keep purity of Gujarati language. In whole state nobody could immediately translate that Urdu chit in the terrorists’ pockets. (Why those chaps were carrying dry fruits and chocolates``
Note three points: one about the pillars, second about Urdu chits and the third about dry fruits. The author ignores that the fact that AK 47 can not bring down the heavy pillars of the temple, at best it could leave the scar. The purpose of the terrorist attack was to kill Hindu worshippers. Secondly author presumes that apparently nobody in the police could read Urdu chits. Let the author present the names of the policemen in the group who read these chits and show that none could read Urdu. A lot of people especially Muslims(policemen could also be Muslims) in India could easily read Urdu. Thirdly it is well known that LeT/JeM terrorists carry dry fruits along with them. The reason why dry fruits are preferred is because apart from being a quick source of carbohydrates, they are non-perishable items. The people are requested to note the ``innuendo`` style rhetoric.
2. ``Be sure of one thing: these elections will be rigged, and the winner will be the party that is better at booth-capturing, horse-trading and monkeying around. Even if the BJP were to lose here, it will make up at the Centre in a few months. ``
Once again notice the language and the purport of the author. So Gujrat elections are over today and these were one of the most peaceful elections with almost no reports of booth-capturing or rigging. One thing that Indians are proud of is democracy amidst the dictatorships and pseudo-dictatorships in the third world. Nobody has ever won a 99% vote in the free India ever, not even Nehru. If Modi could have rigged elections or if BJP could have done so, they would not have lost in one election after the other in so many states in India. If BJP could have rigged the elections they would not have come third in UP, where it almost became a matter of survival for BJP. Elections in India are mostly free and fair and are held by an independent constitutional authority called Election Commission. If Mr. Lyngdoh, The Chief Election Commisner is a man of honor and has stood against the govt time and again despite onslaught of VHP goons. If Democracy is alive in India it is bacause of the mostly free and fair elections. By these statements, the author has directly questioned the impartiality and the constitutional authority of EC in India.
PS Any conscientious person can make a better case against Modi in Gujrat. You dont need to stoop to the level of innuendos and baseless aspersions for making what is a perfectly just case. Alas only if these so called ``saviors`` who write length articles were more honest and sincere !!!
1. ``We have so much culture. 44 people died, 100 were injured but not one pillar of the Rs. 60 crore Swaminarayan Temple was harmed. We are knowing how to preserve our heritage. Gujaratis must export this technology (this is one thing the Yankees cannot patent, no?). I am giving you all this idea because I am now respecting you. You know how to keep purity of Gujarati language. In whole state nobody could immediately translate that Urdu chit in the terrorists’ pockets. (Why those chaps were carrying dry fruits and chocolates``
Note three points: one about the pillars, second about Urdu chits and the third about dry fruits. The author ignores that the fact that AK 47 can not bring down the heavy pillars of the temple, at best it could leave the scar. The purpose of the terrorist attack was to kill Hindu worshippers. Secondly author presumes that apparently nobody in the police could read Urdu chits. Let the author present the names of the policemen in the group who read these chits and show that none could read Urdu. A lot of people especially Muslims(policemen could also be Muslims) in India could easily read Urdu. Thirdly it is well known that LeT/JeM terrorists carry dry fruits along with them. The reason why dry fruits are preferred is because apart from being a quick source of carbohydrates, they are non-perishable items. The people are requested to note the ``innuendo`` style rhetoric.
2. ``Be sure of one thing: these elections will be rigged, and the winner will be the party that is better at booth-capturing, horse-trading and monkeying around. Even if the BJP were to lose here, it will make up at the Centre in a few months. ``
Once again notice the language and the purport of the author. So Gujrat elections are over today and these were one of the most peaceful elections with almost no reports of booth-capturing or rigging. One thing that Indians are proud of is democracy amidst the dictatorships and pseudo-dictatorships in the third world. Nobody has ever won a 99% vote in the free India ever, not even Nehru. If Modi could have rigged elections or if BJP could have done so, they would not have lost in one election after the other in so many states in India. If BJP could have rigged the elections they would not have come third in UP, where it almost became a matter of survival for BJP. Elections in India are mostly free and fair and are held by an independent constitutional authority called Election Commission. If Mr. Lyngdoh, The Chief Election Commisner is a man of honor and has stood against the govt time and again despite onslaught of VHP goons. If Democracy is alive in India it is bacause of the mostly free and fair elections. By these statements, the author has directly questioned the impartiality and the constitutional authority of EC in India.
PS Any conscientious person can make a better case against Modi in Gujrat. You dont need to stoop to the level of innuendos and baseless aspersions for making what is a perfectly just case. Alas only if these so called ``saviors`` who write length articles were more honest and sincere !!!
#16 Posted by mohar11 on December 12, 2002 7:44:52 am
Half century is gone after Independence, yet again - we have stumbled on the same old road-blocks: Hindu-Muslim antagonism. We haven`t yet been able to reconciliate our communal differences. We haven`t yet learnt to how to prevent riots, a basic law and order problem.
Democracy, Development, Technology , Space Research - it doesn`t matter. Our basic instincts have not changed , age-old fundamental deficiencies that have always held us back - have not been improved upon. We as a people seem to be incapable of focusing our passions on things that really matter.
Will there ever be a day when Modi and Sonia would fight an election on how much investment they would be bringing to the state - they would be starting their election campaigns from the doorstep of a chip manufacturing plant rather than the doorstep of a goddamned temple or mosque? I doubt it. Stupid people led by stupid leaders!! Stupidity all around.
Democracy, Development, Technology , Space Research - it doesn`t matter. Our basic instincts have not changed , age-old fundamental deficiencies that have always held us back - have not been improved upon. We as a people seem to be incapable of focusing our passions on things that really matter.
Will there ever be a day when Modi and Sonia would fight an election on how much investment they would be bringing to the state - they would be starting their election campaigns from the doorstep of a chip manufacturing plant rather than the doorstep of a goddamned temple or mosque? I doubt it. Stupid people led by stupid leaders!! Stupidity all around.
#15 Posted by Layman on December 12, 2002 7:44:52 am
Farzana,
I totally agree with the first few paragraphs (before the analysis of Modi begins). I think you `over analysed` Advani, but liked your take on Jaitley. Wish you had written about Arun Shourie too.
On the Gujarat elections, I am confident that they will not be rigged - have some faith in our election commission.
Finally, it was not Ravana whose tail set Lanka on fire, it was Hanuman.
I totally agree with the first few paragraphs (before the analysis of Modi begins). I think you `over analysed` Advani, but liked your take on Jaitley. Wish you had written about Arun Shourie too.
On the Gujarat elections, I am confident that they will not be rigged - have some faith in our election commission.
Finally, it was not Ravana whose tail set Lanka on fire, it was Hanuman.
#14 Posted by roohi on December 12, 2002 7:44:51 am
Whataresaaying Farzana !!
****Ravana had to burn Lanka with tail to save Rama****
Patel Bhai maybe not knowing rapidex hinglish, having lousy grammer, fuzzy logic and black heart - but NAEVER mixing up gods and demons !! Ravana having ten heads and acheeles heel in toondi NOT burn Lanka with tail like anjali-putra-pawan-suth Hanuman. Me thinking you making BIG mishtake !!
(haven`t got beyond the first few lines - what a great way to fight fundoos !! laught at them ! When they start making bad jokes about fundoos in Bollywood blockbusters they shall vanish in a puff of smoke!)
****Ravana had to burn Lanka with tail to save Rama****
Patel Bhai maybe not knowing rapidex hinglish, having lousy grammer, fuzzy logic and black heart - but NAEVER mixing up gods and demons !! Ravana having ten heads and acheeles heel in toondi NOT burn Lanka with tail like anjali-putra-pawan-suth Hanuman. Me thinking you making BIG mishtake !!
(haven`t got beyond the first few lines - what a great way to fight fundoos !! laught at them ! When they start making bad jokes about fundoos in Bollywood blockbusters they shall vanish in a puff of smoke!)
#13 Posted by sadna on December 12, 2002 12:13:07 am
Its a long article so I will respond in installments sorry.
Re the Akshardham pillars and damage to them. I read somewhere that the Swaminarayan trust designed and built the temple with the intention that it should last a 1000+ years(it survived the earthquake too), so its no surprise that nothing happened to its pillars.
The better motif is of innocent Muslims surrounded by a mob and no help available, as in why commandos are not called when mobs are on the rampage. Mr Ehsan Jafri, when he was surrounded by a threatening mob, kept calling for help for 6 hours, he contacted senior Congress leaders, reportedly even Sonia Gandhi was phoned. In contrast, the commandos were dispatched within 1-2 hrs of the temple attack. It could be `lessons learned`, but how can we wait for another riot to find out? The thing to do is pin Modi/Gujarat home minister/Advani/ID Swami/etc down on this exact point, the Ehsan Jafri point, what government procedure was used when and why and who decided? Why is mob violence not listed as a urgent threat to public security as much as a couple of gunmen?
To raise these and other questions and demand answers is very important and IMO hence its also important(though difficult) to avoid Hindu-Muslim wrangles/angles, because
1. for me as a Hindu its not a Hindu-Muslim thing. If Indian citizens are killed barbarously while the govt. connives or watches, I as an Indian citizen demand answers and accountability irrespective of whether I am Hindu or Muslim. If someone frames the issue on a Hindu-Muslim angle, that puts me among the murderers on count of my religion, so how does this help ?
2. the Hindu-Muslim angle gives the Hindutva demagogues an opportunity to detract from the human angle. If you notice, those opportunities are what Modi has been consistently making use of.
#12 Posted by ana_dobarah on December 11, 2002 8:42:15 pm
Farzana,
It`s good to see you back at Chowk...you`ve been missed. As for the disheartening feedback from `intelligent` readers...ji, ye log bhi aksar ghalat paRRhtay haiN. you stand by the courage of your convictions, and keep on doing so! Judging by the remarks, and continuing actions of so-called intelligent people here in the US...i am now convinced that the centre has stopped holding, things have fallen apart, and many of us are clay in the hands of rabid brigades. Chalo, enough cynicism...and t. is right...the attack is at hand, but you`ve been able to weather it before na?
Courage!
love, ana
It`s good to see you back at Chowk...you`ve been missed. As for the disheartening feedback from `intelligent` readers...ji, ye log bhi aksar ghalat paRRhtay haiN. you stand by the courage of your convictions, and keep on doing so! Judging by the remarks, and continuing actions of so-called intelligent people here in the US...i am now convinced that the centre has stopped holding, things have fallen apart, and many of us are clay in the hands of rabid brigades. Chalo, enough cynicism...and t. is right...the attack is at hand, but you`ve been able to weather it before na?
Courage!
love, ana
#11 Posted by anil on December 11, 2002 8:38:48 pm
Farzana:
Your article reflects pain and sadness of inumerable peaceful people, Indians and non-Indians alike. To me, your artcile also has an underpinning message that you believe in India and however flawed, its democracies. Modi-Advani-and-Vajpayee (for his unbelievable words that you have quoted) team must be very vulnerable to make Gujrat election a India v Pakistan show down. That too in the land of Gandhi and Jinnah too.
ANIL
Your article reflects pain and sadness of inumerable peaceful people, Indians and non-Indians alike. To me, your artcile also has an underpinning message that you believe in India and however flawed, its democracies. Modi-Advani-and-Vajpayee (for his unbelievable words that you have quoted) team must be very vulnerable to make Gujrat election a India v Pakistan show down. That too in the land of Gandhi and Jinnah too.
ANIL
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