The Unmaking Of Gujrat

#144 by rsridhar on December 16, 2002 9:13am PT
“If Sonia Gandhi is our best bet, then God save India”

Sridhar…people really didn’t feel like voting for Sonia..so Congress should have had another party leader, someone who sounds more genuine and more Indian. And yet, inspite of everything..Modi is not the right one..even if Vajpayee is all right..

Anyway..time will tell…

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Urstruly, Get help, my God, I feel physically sick to listen to the venom you spit, and the hatred you feel. You unfortunately are the Muslim face the world media has been propagating, you are your own worst enemy!

don’t think pakis should be deriving satisfaction from the mess in gujrat. the election result will only strengthen the hands of those sections of paki society that are directly responsible for causing so much mayhem in pakistan. ptv news editors, mma campaign managers and hindu-hating elements in paki army are going turn this into another clash of civilizations and in response, they will promote an agenda that will lead to even more misery in the region.

the threat posed by genie unleashed over the last few years should be obvious by now to sane elements on both sides. hopefully, pressure can be put upon moderate elements in bjp and in paki army to work together to reach some sort of settlement.

Urstruly # 149 - this is the kind of genocidal hatred people are taught.

Irfan_h

This is our fault. This is because of our weekness that our Muslim sisters were subject to this inhumanity. It is a shame that no one talks about 3000+ women who are still missing and presumably were sold to the brothels across india by hindu genocidal maniacs. We and only we bear the responsibility for their misery. We failed to protect them. How can we blame hindus; when we knew that they are destined to kill; they are determined to rape; they have no shame; they have no mercy for women, or children, or human beings, especially, if they are Muslims. That is their religion; that was the wrath of Kaali; that was the fury of shiva. That was the Yudh; that was Mahabharat; and that was children of Ravna set on fire.

Mass rape and torture sponsored by India

uploaded 16 Dec 2002


New Delhi (IANS) -- A citizen`s tribunal that spoke to victims of the sectarian bloodshed in Gujarat has chronicled most brutal and inhuman torture of women, leaving survivors and their families emotionally scarred for life.

Before they were killed, the usual routine that they were made to go through by the killer mobs was rape, gang rape, mass rape, stripping, parading, insertion of objects in their body, molestation and torching.

``Rape was used as an instrument for subjugation and humiliation of a community,`` noted the tribunal headed by former Supreme Court judge V.R. Krishna Iyer and comprising former judges and activists.

The tribunal collected evidence from 16 Gujarat districts and spoke to hundreds of female victims.

The report said a chilling cover-up technique was destruction of the evidence by burning the victims.

``Barring a few, in most instances of sexual violence, female victims were stripped and paraded naked, gang-raped and quartered and burnt beyond recognition.``

Many of the 33,000-odd children forced to live in refugee camps throughout Gujarat were mute witnesses to sexual crimes against their womenfolk - mothers, sisters, aunts and even grandmothers.

In Naroda Patiya, one of the worst affected villages in the violence, the tribunal records that mobs even raped girls as young as 3 or 11 years. Babies were cut up and flung into pyres.

Young girls were made to remove their clothes in front of 1,000-2,000 strong mobs that humiliated them. Eight to 10 men raped them. After this, attackers inserted sharp swords, knives or other objects into their bodies and tortured them before burning them alive.

When women begged and pleaded with police personnel to save them, they were told that the police had orders to ``do nothing for 24 hours in Naroda``.

Forty-six women were among the 96 bodies that were buried in a mass grave after the village had been ravaged by the mobs.

A rape victim from the Godhra relief camp told the tribunal that she was ``stripped, gang-raped, her baby was killed in front of her, she was beaten up, burnt and left for dead.``

Women were also attacked with acid, beaten up with rods, their vagina sliced, and iron rods pushed inside. Their bellies would be cut open and objects inserted.

A 13-year-old girl had a rod pushed into her stomach. A mother recounted that her three-year-old baby was raped and killed.

One of the most gruesome accounts was that about the death of Kausar Bano, a pregnant woman of Naroda Patiya. She was raped, tortured, her womb was slit open with a sword; her foetus was torn out, hacked to pieces and burnt alive with its mother.

Women from Shah Alam and Danilimda villages went to the police to seek protection for their families. The police ignored them. But when they got persistent, the police came with reinforcements and rained batons and rifle butts on them.

In some villages, where the police allegedly colluded with the mobs and facilitated their entry into Muslim lanes and houses, women suffered quite another kind of humiliation.

When the women tried to shield their houses from the police and the mobs, the police pulled down their trousers and shouted abuse at the women, the tribunal was told by various victims.

The tribunal was told by a woman of Vadodara that she was beaten so brutally by the police that she gave premature birth and had blood oozing out of one breast while feeding her baby with the other.

In Tarsali village, a woman was made to watch as her son was dragged down from a tree that he had climbed in desperation, his fingers cut off and the rest of his body dismembered. That was the last picture in her mind before she died.

The report notes: ``In Gujarat, the degree of violence and sexual crimes against women reached unprecedented levels. That sexual crimes against Muslim women took place on such a large scale in post-independent, democratic and secular India is shocking in itself.``

Source: IANS

WISE CROW


Ferozk

what you are chracterizing as hate is actually moral bankruptcy and cowardice. The election of Hindu religious nuts can either be wrong or it can be right.....it can`t be right and wrong at the same time. So if hindus support the election of their government they should do so without maligning Paksitan, Quaid-e-Azam, or Muslims and if they do not support the election of hindu religious nuts they should do it without maligning Paksitan, Quaid-e-Azam, or Muslims. Either you support them or you dont. But the way they have maligned Paksitan, Quaid-e-Azam, and Muslims shows that they support the election of the hindu religious nuts from the depths of their hearts but they also want to be called ``modern``, ``open-minded``, ``secular``, and that bitch...what is it called...hunh ...``democratic``. So they are trying their best to prove that election of geonicidal maniacs is actually a lesser evil as compared to what is happening in Paksitan. THat would sure put even Goebles, Bush and Rumsfeld to shame.

Isn`t it a shame that they still blame Muslims for burning the train even after their own Hindu government has released investigation report that the accelerant that caused the fire was already in the train.....I mean how the hell it is posssible to to get 60 liters of petrol into a boggey full of hooligans....oops I mean pilgrims. Did the Muslims ask their permission first ``oh excuse us, let us board, we want to sprinkle this boggey with 60 litres of petrol and then set your sorry asses on fire...do you mind``. Another practical solution would have been Moltov Cocktails thrown from outside. But the picture of burning train as posted below suggests that it did not happen.....otherwise at least a little bit of fire also definitely would have been lit on the outside of the boggey....since the Motov cocktails, which essentially are corked glass bottles full of gasoline would have exploded outside wall, window glass panes, metal shutters, or window bars.....but it did not happen. So either the Muslim attackers asked people of the boggey to keep their windows open or the fire was laready inside.

Let us also not forget the Muslim woman who was forced into the boggey by the hooligans, which actually prompted the stone throwing match.

So my friend ferozk, it is not that hindus are stupid, they are hindus for crying out loud, they are as cunning as a crow.....but it is moral bankruptcy, hate, eternal cowardice and anti-Muslim prejudice, that has blinded their best judgment. And even a crow which is considered a wisest and most cunning bird in our folklore falls for the shit....as our Punjabi proverb goes ``Syaana KaaN gooN teh hi digda eh``

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#138 by Harpreet
Thanks for your input. I agree Rwanda model is probably nearer the truth though i confess i have not studied happenings in Rwanda in any great detail (whatever i learnt about Nazi Germany was from the book Rise and Fall of Third Reich, which is a classic).
We do however know where the cancer is, what the treatment is. I however do not see any doctor who can put an end to this cancer. If Sonia Gandhi is our best bet, then God save India.
Sridhar

re:#141 by ferozk
Good post. As Gandhiji said many decades ago, may be going thr` this fire will purify us. Sometimes, when people do not intuitively know what is wrong and what is right, they have to go thr` pain and suffering again and again to understand how to love and how not to hate. Was the tragedy of partition not bad enough that some Indians want to revisit the horrors again? Such is human nature that all lessons learnt over centuries from sages, saints are lost in moments of frenzy.
Sridhar

re:#132 by nasah
While i agree with and applaud the spirit of your post, i think the seeds of Modi victory were sown by Congress for many decades. Congress had perfected the art of pitting one community against another for political gains. Most of riots in post-independent India were politically motivated and orchestrated. Mrs Gandhi (for me she will always be ``that b!tch``) even divided sikhs and hindus, something that was not easy, given the close relationships the 2 communities have had over centuries.
So, the seeds were already sown. Then comes Modi, who is doing what Congress had always done. Only now, he adds some patriotic flavor to the whole issue and throws in ``fears of terrorism by muslims`` for good measure. The result is what you see. India`s democracy is being tested. Will this cancer spread or will well-meaning people realise the dangers and eliminate this cancer at its inception? Only time will tell.
Sridhar

mr ferozk:

get ready for a long haul.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,861047,00.html

These are dark days for India, it seems. ``What has happened in Gujarat is original in the sophistication and completeness of its articulation,`` Mr Guha said, adding: ``the creation of Pakistan at Partition is an open invitation to Hindu fundamentalists. As long as there is Pakistan there will be Hindu fundamentalism.``

Harpreet #137

For the record, Togadia has not won any elections and nor is he part of any political party. He is ``merely`` a leader of the VHP. This is the sense of the comparison with Bhidranwale.

Nasah, you have put it very well. These faults are within India and can only be cured by Indians. It is however difficult to put with ``experts`` from openly sectarian countries (with miniscule minorities) providing ``advice``.

Between Narendra Modi and the Indira/Rajiv/Sonia triad, it is hard to know who is more vile. The day when Ms. Sonia Gandhi and her descendants are out of politics will be a great one for India.

FerozeK # 141

You write:
......[Hate succeeds, when we give up on the specter of hope] ......

____________________________________________________________
...specter of hope?

Your english language skills are a testimonial that you are a product of an english-medium school....especially the grammar-school type. It also shows that you are the kind who are proudly challenged to read, write, and converse intelligently in urdu.

It is long time past that one could get away to appear as `parrha-likhha` by quoting the ilks of Burke & Mill. A lot of muslim children, not accustomed to colonial `education`, in US and Europe are pretty profficient in urdu, farsi, and arabic---besides latin languages.

Unless PakiLand is run by such kind there is no glimmer (ray, beam, spark..etc) of Hope in any muslim land.

My fellow Chowkies and dear friends, please do not blame each other and do not hold one another for being less tainted with sin and do not give way to hating each other. Please understand, why hate assumes the proportions of a levithan, which engulfs us all. It is so easy to hate, but to understand the reasons, why we hate is the real test of our mettle as human beings.

I have seen dark days in my life and I have seen days, when I felt that I could not hope again. There is always hope and hope only exists if we learn from our past mistakes and make a turn for the better. Hate succeeds, when we give up on the specter of hope and start to believe the naysayers of the world. It takes courage to hope, when all around you are doubting you and yes; it is difficult lead, when you are following own yourself.

All I ask; no all I beg, is that you do not hate each other, because when do, have you really considered who wins?

It is not you and I.

I have seen hate and I have looked into the eyes of hate and I have smelled the foulness of hate and I can tell you all, there is nothing to be gained by it except the gradual loss of decency in all of us and the end result is a process, which cheapens everything we once held dear. I do not blame the person, who hates me or wants to kill me. I simply do not understand, what they will possibly gain by hating or killing me? Life is too limited and too precious to be wasted in the pursuit of hate. Hate surrounds me in Pakistan and I cannot breath because of it and yes, I am tired of hate, because to me it is such a waste of potential.

Hence, my dear Chowkies, I cannot stop you from hating - I can only hope that you will one day realize the sheer futility of your cause and stop yourself. If you still wish to hate, then please hate, because you have a reason and not be because others tell you to hate. Hate all whom you please, but think for yourself before you hate!

Re: nasah

Well said!

Re: sadna

Yes, the rot started after 1947.

Ciao