The Unmaking Of Gujrat

my fellow Indians -- don`t blame others for your ugliness that VHP is and a monstrosity that Modi turned out to BE -- it is all YOUR fault – your cancer – nobody else’s

there is/was a CANCER growing in the body politics of India of both Hindus and Muslims -- since old days –

pleeeze don`t blame Pakistan for the ugly ULCER that has burst open in Gujarat -- this cancer in the fabric of Hindu society was developing way before Pakistan came into existence -- Gandhi`s death and Nehru`s stubborness -- had stemmed the onslaught of this horrible disease -- whereas it flourished in the fertile bigoted soil of Pakistan --

but once the vultures had taken over the living body of Indian Governance at the Center by -- the wolves-in-sheepskins -- subterfuge -- it was only a matter of time --

my congratulations to Mr. Togadia -- my hope and prayers are with him -- that his `Hindutva lab` will do as great a job for his Hindu India as the `Islamutva lab` did for Muslim Pakistan....

my congratulations to -- ms sonia gandhi -- what your swargbashi hubby did for Babri masjid – u madam did for Gujraat – thanks

imitating BJP did neither of u two any good -- nor did it help the country –

the election showed that Gujratis do have -- `GOOD TASTE` – they don’t like ‘IMITATIONS’ -- they go for the ‘REAL STUFF’ –

Nehru and his daughter were political veterans -- had history behind them – u and ur late husband had NONE -- u two had no business being in politics. Period.

now for heavens sake – let go the family business mama – let go the Congress -- and let go the country – for crying out loud --

right now – I don’t feel good – I feel nauseated --

I and my FATHER did not fight the British and wrested the country from their iron hands -- to fall into the claws of these Hindutva vultures --

I want to vomit.... i really feel sick -- I would have a heart attack had I been in India --

achcaa hua hum agai ahl-e watan se dooor -- thanks America for saving from my countrymen....

HASAN

nasahji
Well said.

Main nahin hoon ahlewatan se door and the fight has to continue.

Any Gujjus here to talk more about these results with more information and detail? What lessons must other regions learn?

For example, how to bring to public focus the fundamental point that politicians repeatedly fool people, when they ask people to vote for security? Security and law and order is a fundamental right which it is the duty of the state to provide to all, not something which citizens should have to VOTE for after the failure of the state to fulfil its duty and under threat of riots and goons.

re:#117 by Urstruly
Dear Mullah,
While you are right in criticising Gujarat election results, to say Pak is one step behind India in fundamentalism is far fetched.
In this matter, you guys are the leaders. In fact, having failed in IT (Information Technology), Pakistanis have become leaders in a different kind of IT (International Terrorism). This has become a brand name with which Pak is increasingly being associated all over the world. Pakistanis can pride themselves for being instantly recognised at airports, seaports and various other venues. Alas, we Indians do not have that distinction.
The new revolution is being spearheaded by mullahs from the madrassas that have sprouted all over the country. Go to the following url, which talks about how deep the indoctrination of hatred is in Pakistan:

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/commentary/story/0,4386,160838,00.html?
To know how much progress Pak has made and why we Indians cannot ever hope to catch up with you guys, go to the following url:
http://www.dawn.com/2002/12/14/ed.htm#3

Gujarat is no doubt a bad thing but how BJP succeeds depends on how it sells its brand of politics to rest of country and if there are any takers. Gujaratis` hatred for muslims is only rivalled by love for money and good life. Gujarat is a prosperous state (relatively speaking). If Modi can bring more prosperity to Gujarat, he would have succeeded. If his brand of politics brings more riots, disruptions in economic activity (as i suspect it will), then he will be punished severely in the next coming elections. The good thing with democracy is nothing is permanent. The bad thing of course is that we have to deal with scums like Modi now and then.
Sridhar

[ #123 by m_souza on December 15, 2002 8:40pm PT
#113 by Romair on December 15, 2002 2:42pm PT

“Jinnah was a great man by any standard. Modi is a killer. They are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.”
Modi is a killer. This is what you know and think..but we think they re the same

Ask those Hindu families who had to ecvacuate their homes in Pakistan (then India) and flee for their lives. Millions killed …And so many …so many of the Hindus who wished to stay there had to immediately get circumcised right in front of mocking public..so as to become a Muslim…so that they could stay in the holy land of Islam. It happened with my grandparents friend’s and relatives……yes!!! And we all know there were more Hindus migrating from Paksitan compared to Muslims going to Pakistan from India..
So to say that Jinnah is a great man…Wah!!!
I have heard that Paksitani song based on a Indian song “De dee hume azaadi bina ……sabarmati ke snt tune kar diya kamal, raghupari raghav rajaram”

Pakistani version of this song is similar in tune but wording is …all praise for Jinnah..that he got independence for Paksitan so peacefully …without any bloodshed…Wah!!…No bloodshed…really..
The kind of horrible scenes narrated by my grandparents are worse than hell. To ye to jis par beettee hai wohi janta hai.. ]

I heard a story that one train going to West Pakistan was stopped by a Sikh and there was instant fear that some violence is going to take place, but no, the Sikh guy wanted to just help a muslim girl reach her relatives in Pakistan. After safely seeing the girl climb into train the Sikh went away. And irony of this story is, when train reached its destination three Sikhs got down and immediately killed by guns of muslim goons. The Sikhs probably had probably gone into Pakistan to pick up their relatives.

On eastern India patience of Bengali Hindus ran out when Suhrawardy made a speech threatening Hindus with carnage, and there was instant reaction from Hindus of Calcutta. Hindus started killing muslims which prompted much maligned Mahatma to go on fast.

-ew

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Nasah

{{my congratulations to -- ms sonia gandhi -- what your swargbashi hubby did for Babri masjid – u madam did for Gujraat – thanks}}

- You forgot to mention what her MotherIndia-in-law did to Punjab.

When the history of this age is written, the corruption and failure of the Congress party will be seen to bear a great deal of responsibility for what we are going through now. And mark my words the Nehru/Gandhi family, self appointed eternal rulers of India, will be seen for the damage they have caused and the ground they ceded to the fascists all for the sake of the preservation of their bloodline`s rule.

-h-

Romair

I remember you saying that you hoped the BJP wins total power in India so that there could be a civil war and India would fall apart. Whats with all the crocodile tears now?

Do your best.

-h-

rsridhar;

{{Gujarat gives the menacing appearance of Germany in the 20s when Weimar republic was in its last stages and Nazi party was trying to woo Germans with misplaced patriotism}}

- Whilst I agree with the comparison to a certain extent, because of the extremities of the explicit electoral platform of the BJP and its affiliates, and the Nazi style politics they peddle, I think there is another more recent example that can provide an insightful model for what we are currently seeing in Gujarat in terms of the unhinged doctrines and modus operandi of the pogroms: Rwanda.

Open demonisation with hysterical targetting and hatred based on ethnic/religious minority sustained by historical grievances amplified out of proportion, demonisation of the ``other`` to sub-human, judicial/institutional compliance (Hutu murdering one million Tutsis, police participation), use of hunting packs to carry out killing, use of kerosene, rape and machetes (low technology pogroms).

India has cancer. I wish we could simply perform a mastectomy and lop off Gujarat but its not going to happen.

Basically I feel more depressed about the future of India than I have ever felt before. Silicon Valley doesnt mean a thing whilst we roast children alive and the chefs walk free.

-h-

pmishra;

{{Today the hindus have their own Bhidranwala in the form of Togadia and Jinnah in the form of Narendra Modi}}

What frightens me the most is that Bhinderanwala never had deep rooted support amongst Sikhs for a sustained period. He never gained an electoral mandate and was an instrument propagated by Congress to cleave the Akali vote.

No, what really frightens me is that Togadia et all have been elected and their worldview endorsed through the franchise, and that they have their hands near the reigns of power.

That scares the freaking living daylights out of me.


-h-

ps: Congratulations to those Gujaratis who voted for the BJP hate mongering snake oil salesmen, acceding to a mini genocide and relegating your state to the same moral level of Rwanda.

Well done.

My fellow Chowkies and dear friends, please do not blame each other and do not hold one another for being less tainted with sin and do not give way to hating each other. Please understand, why hate assumes the proportions of a levithan, which engulfs us all. It is so easy to hate, but to understand the reasons, why we hate is the real test of our mettle as human beings.

I have seen dark days in my life and I have seen days, when I felt that I could not hope again. There is always hope and hope only exists if we learn from our past mistakes and make a turn for the better. Hate succeeds, when we give up on the specter of hope and start to believe the naysayers of the world. It takes courage to hope, when all around you are doubting you and yes; it is difficult lead, when you are following own yourself.

All I ask; no all I beg, is that you do not hate each other, because when do, have you really considered who wins?

It is not you and I.

I have seen hate and I have looked into the eyes of hate and I have smelled the foulness of hate and I can tell you all, there is nothing to be gained by it except the gradual loss of decency in all of us and the end result is a process, which cheapens everything we once held dear. I do not blame the person, who hates me or wants to kill me. I simply do not understand, what they will possibly gain by hating or killing me? Life is too limited and too precious to be wasted in the pursuit of hate. Hate surrounds me in Pakistan and I cannot breath because of it and yes, I am tired of hate, because to me it is such a waste of potential.

Hence, my dear Chowkies, I cannot stop you from hating - I can only hope that you will one day realize the sheer futility of your cause and stop yourself. If you still wish to hate, then please hate, because you have a reason and not be because others tell you to hate. Hate all whom you please, but think for yourself before you hate!

Re: nasah

Well said!

Re: sadna

Yes, the rot started after 1947.

Ciao

FerozeK # 141

You write:
......[Hate succeeds, when we give up on the specter of hope] ......

____________________________________________________________
...specter of hope?

Your english language skills are a testimonial that you are a product of an english-medium school....especially the grammar-school type. It also shows that you are the kind who are proudly challenged to read, write, and converse intelligently in urdu.

It is long time past that one could get away to appear as `parrha-likhha` by quoting the ilks of Burke & Mill. A lot of muslim children, not accustomed to colonial `education`, in US and Europe are pretty profficient in urdu, farsi, and arabic---besides latin languages.

Unless PakiLand is run by such kind there is no glimmer (ray, beam, spark..etc) of Hope in any muslim land.

Harpreet #137

For the record, Togadia has not won any elections and nor is he part of any political party. He is ``merely`` a leader of the VHP. This is the sense of the comparison with Bhidranwale.

Nasah, you have put it very well. These faults are within India and can only be cured by Indians. It is however difficult to put with ``experts`` from openly sectarian countries (with miniscule minorities) providing ``advice``.

Between Narendra Modi and the Indira/Rajiv/Sonia triad, it is hard to know who is more vile. The day when Ms. Sonia Gandhi and her descendants are out of politics will be a great one for India.

mr ferozk:

get ready for a long haul.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,861047,00.html

These are dark days for India, it seems. ``What has happened in Gujarat is original in the sophistication and completeness of its articulation,`` Mr Guha said, adding: ``the creation of Pakistan at Partition is an open invitation to Hindu fundamentalists. As long as there is Pakistan there will be Hindu fundamentalism.``

re:#132 by nasah
While i agree with and applaud the spirit of your post, i think the seeds of Modi victory were sown by Congress for many decades. Congress had perfected the art of pitting one community against another for political gains. Most of riots in post-independent India were politically motivated and orchestrated. Mrs Gandhi (for me she will always be ``that b!tch``) even divided sikhs and hindus, something that was not easy, given the close relationships the 2 communities have had over centuries.
So, the seeds were already sown. Then comes Modi, who is doing what Congress had always done. Only now, he adds some patriotic flavor to the whole issue and throws in ``fears of terrorism by muslims`` for good measure. The result is what you see. India`s democracy is being tested. Will this cancer spread or will well-meaning people realise the dangers and eliminate this cancer at its inception? Only time will tell.
Sridhar

re:#141 by ferozk
Good post. As Gandhiji said many decades ago, may be going thr` this fire will purify us. Sometimes, when people do not intuitively know what is wrong and what is right, they have to go thr` pain and suffering again and again to understand how to love and how not to hate. Was the tragedy of partition not bad enough that some Indians want to revisit the horrors again? Such is human nature that all lessons learnt over centuries from sages, saints are lost in moments of frenzy.
Sridhar

#138 by Harpreet
Thanks for your input. I agree Rwanda model is probably nearer the truth though i confess i have not studied happenings in Rwanda in any great detail (whatever i learnt about Nazi Germany was from the book Rise and Fall of Third Reich, which is a classic).
We do however know where the cancer is, what the treatment is. I however do not see any doctor who can put an end to this cancer. If Sonia Gandhi is our best bet, then God save India.
Sridhar