The Unmaking Of Gujrat
Farzana Versey December 11, 2002
#18 Posted by Romair on December 12, 2002 2:07:32 pm
The Gujrat elections are turning into an interesting test lab. If the BJP wins, would it indicate that India wants to hold on to Hinduvta, if not in power, at least in opposition? I would say yes.
If BJP loses, and then loses some more in other areas, and eventually is not the main opposition either, then one would have to say that India has truly passed through a crisis and has established, if not a first world, then at least a second world stable democracy.
What I cannot understand is how the BJP got into power in the first place. Two years ago, I used to quote directly from the BJP website, www.bjp.org, about the violently anti-Muslim attitudes of the BJP. I would point out that if a party states anti-Muslim lines directly on their own website, then it must mean what it says. I had mentioned that sooner or later another Babri Mosque type incidence would occur. It was obvious and it did occcur after Godhra. But again and again, so many Indians would defend the BJP and would accuse me of selective quoting. One even mentioned that the website represented the views of a misguided webmaster and not of the BJP.
Luckily, now everyone seems to have jumped on the anti-BJP bandwagon. Quite a few Johnny-come-latelys. Even the BJP`s stauchest supporters on this site are no longer defending it, and no one accuses me of selective quoting. But I still cannot understand the following:
Why are all these people now so surprised at how the BJP is handling the Indian Muslims, when it mentioned, years ago, in a straight forward manner in its own manifesto that this is exactly what it was going to do?
India, unlike Pakistan, is not a feudal society, and its people are far more liberated when it comes to opportunities for selecting their leaders. Blaming Modi, Vajpayee and Advani only is not correct. The blame for whatever is being done by the BJP needs to placed on the people who vote(d) for them. After all, BJP is doing exactly what it promised its voters it would do. If anything, it has actually watered down its stance due to the NDA, in comparison to what it said it would do in its manifesto.
If BJP loses, and then loses some more in other areas, and eventually is not the main opposition either, then one would have to say that India has truly passed through a crisis and has established, if not a first world, then at least a second world stable democracy.
What I cannot understand is how the BJP got into power in the first place. Two years ago, I used to quote directly from the BJP website, www.bjp.org, about the violently anti-Muslim attitudes of the BJP. I would point out that if a party states anti-Muslim lines directly on their own website, then it must mean what it says. I had mentioned that sooner or later another Babri Mosque type incidence would occur. It was obvious and it did occcur after Godhra. But again and again, so many Indians would defend the BJP and would accuse me of selective quoting. One even mentioned that the website represented the views of a misguided webmaster and not of the BJP.
Luckily, now everyone seems to have jumped on the anti-BJP bandwagon. Quite a few Johnny-come-latelys. Even the BJP`s stauchest supporters on this site are no longer defending it, and no one accuses me of selective quoting. But I still cannot understand the following:
Why are all these people now so surprised at how the BJP is handling the Indian Muslims, when it mentioned, years ago, in a straight forward manner in its own manifesto that this is exactly what it was going to do?
India, unlike Pakistan, is not a feudal society, and its people are far more liberated when it comes to opportunities for selecting their leaders. Blaming Modi, Vajpayee and Advani only is not correct. The blame for whatever is being done by the BJP needs to placed on the people who vote(d) for them. After all, BJP is doing exactly what it promised its voters it would do. If anything, it has actually watered down its stance due to the NDA, in comparison to what it said it would do in its manifesto.
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#19 Posted by the_happy_one on December 12, 2002 2:07:33 pm
Hi Farzana:
You make so many gaffes to begin with that it’s hard to continue reading your ‘articles’. Like someone pointed out Ravana neither had a tail nor used it to burn anything. And if you have Gujarati roots how come you used the expression ‘Modibhai’? Anybody who was even half way familiar with Gujarati expression wouldn’t use the suffix ‘bhai’ after a surname. Maybe your disappointment in the fact that your intelligent readers tend to disagree with you is misplaced after all. I mean if they loyally read your stuff how intelligent can they really be?
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
I have tried to induce in myself a nostalgia, some sort of emotion, on the 10th anniversary of the fall of Babri Masjid and have drawn a blank. In another context, Wordsworth talked of the loss of that ‘visionary gleam’. Possibly, something inside me has dried up.
In my years as a journalist I have reverted repeatedly to my village, Mustafabad, near Rae Bareli, where my earliest sensibilities were shaped by grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and, above all, my father and mother. Ours was a Muslim home, a mosque dominating our courtyard. But the cultural derivatives of this Islam were set against a broad Hindu civilisational framework. It was not something we discussed. It was something we lived.
Our marriage rituals were rituals of Avadh and therefore, I dare say, Hindu. If one of our cousins was in the family way my mother would arrange for Aseemun to be around for the childbirth. How could a baby be born in our house without Aseemun singing in her full-throated style, my mother’s favourite sohar, song sung at childbirth in our villages. Allah mian hamare bhaiyya ka diyo nand Lal (Oh my Allah give my brother a son like Lord Krishna). The controller of ceremonies, both at weddings and at childbirth, was the nawan, or the barber’s wife. Whether Hindu or Muslim, she brought into the rituals and the festivities the cultural elements of the Hindu countryside.
Even our religious poetry was occasionally cast in a Hindu ambience. The greatest epics on various aspects of the tragedy of Karbala were written by Mir Anis who is regarded as the greatest master of Urdu diction. These poems, or Marsias, are the staple at most Moharram congregations particularly in areas around Avadh.
Even though all of Anis’s characters like Imam Hussain, the prophet’s grandson, Abbas, his brother, Zainab, his sister and a range of sisters and daughters-in-law, are historically Arab, Anis has delineated his characters as quintessentially Avadhi. In their speech and demeanour they come across as Indian. Bano-e-nek naam ki kheti, hari rahey/ Sandal se maang, bachchon/ Se godi bhari rahey (May the parting in Bano’s hair always carry a streak of sandalwood and may her house always be filled with the laughter of children).
My grandmother could actually recite passages from Padmavat, the classic in Avadhi written by Malik Mohammad Jaisi. This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana? That somewhat ravaged monument at the entrance of Nizamuddin East in New Delhi is his tomb.
And what of Saiyid Ibrahim Raskhan’s unparalleled adoration for that ‘naughty boy from Gokul’ or Salbeg’s lyrics on Jagannath never sung better than by Sikandar Alam. Or Nazir Akbarabadi on Krishna Raas, Mahadev, Guru Nanak. And if you have had enough of the 19th century let me introduce you to modern poets. Krishn ka hun pujari/ Ali ka banda hoon/ Yagana shaan-e-khuda/ Dekh kar raha na Gaya (I am a pujari of Krishna and a devotee of Ali/ I cannot help myself when I see the wonders of God).
Just in case you didn’t know, the longest running serial, Mahabharat, which almost transformed Hinduism into a congregational religion, was written by Masoom Raza Rahi.
And why restrict ourselves to literature? Ustad Fayyaz Khan had a series of compositions but of none was he more proud than: Manmohan Braj ke Rasiya (Colourful Krishna in Braj land). Visit Ustad Alauddin Khan’s house in Maihar and you will be witness to one of the great spectacles of composite culture. The great master said his namaaz five times a day but his music he derived from Saraswati, who adorns all the walls of his house.
When my friend Raghu Rai and I visited Malikarjun Mansoor, Gangubai Hangal and Bhimsen Joshi, prominent on their walls were photographs of their respective gurus, Manjhe Khan and Ustad Abdul Karim Khan. Ibrahim Adil Shah, the King of Bijapur in the 18th century begins his great work on music Kitaab-e-Nauras with Saraswati Vandana. Had Dara Shikoh not translated the Upanishads into Persian, the transmission of Hindu thought to the West would have had to rely on some other route.
I have not even mentioned Khushi Mohammad, the pujari who looks after Goga Merhi temple in Ganganagar and Adam Malik from Baktot village in Pahalgam who discovered the Amarnath shrine. One third of the proceeds from the shrine to this day go to the descendents of Mailk.
But in the 10th year of the destruction of the Babri Masjid, none of this seems relevant. Would Modi, Singhal or Togadia understand any of this? They were not around when I went out and made 50 short films on these themes. Oh the passion with which I undertook the expedition. Except for my cousin Jimmy’s mad pursuit of these themes, I was alone even then. Today I feel different, probably lonely and there is a difference.
You make so many gaffes to begin with that it’s hard to continue reading your ‘articles’. Like someone pointed out Ravana neither had a tail nor used it to burn anything. And if you have Gujarati roots how come you used the expression ‘Modibhai’? Anybody who was even half way familiar with Gujarati expression wouldn’t use the suffix ‘bhai’ after a surname. Maybe your disappointment in the fact that your intelligent readers tend to disagree with you is misplaced after all. I mean if they loyally read your stuff how intelligent can they really be?
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
I have tried to induce in myself a nostalgia, some sort of emotion, on the 10th anniversary of the fall of Babri Masjid and have drawn a blank. In another context, Wordsworth talked of the loss of that ‘visionary gleam’. Possibly, something inside me has dried up.
In my years as a journalist I have reverted repeatedly to my village, Mustafabad, near Rae Bareli, where my earliest sensibilities were shaped by grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and, above all, my father and mother. Ours was a Muslim home, a mosque dominating our courtyard. But the cultural derivatives of this Islam were set against a broad Hindu civilisational framework. It was not something we discussed. It was something we lived.
Our marriage rituals were rituals of Avadh and therefore, I dare say, Hindu. If one of our cousins was in the family way my mother would arrange for Aseemun to be around for the childbirth. How could a baby be born in our house without Aseemun singing in her full-throated style, my mother’s favourite sohar, song sung at childbirth in our villages. Allah mian hamare bhaiyya ka diyo nand Lal (Oh my Allah give my brother a son like Lord Krishna). The controller of ceremonies, both at weddings and at childbirth, was the nawan, or the barber’s wife. Whether Hindu or Muslim, she brought into the rituals and the festivities the cultural elements of the Hindu countryside.
Even our religious poetry was occasionally cast in a Hindu ambience. The greatest epics on various aspects of the tragedy of Karbala were written by Mir Anis who is regarded as the greatest master of Urdu diction. These poems, or Marsias, are the staple at most Moharram congregations particularly in areas around Avadh.
Even though all of Anis’s characters like Imam Hussain, the prophet’s grandson, Abbas, his brother, Zainab, his sister and a range of sisters and daughters-in-law, are historically Arab, Anis has delineated his characters as quintessentially Avadhi. In their speech and demeanour they come across as Indian. Bano-e-nek naam ki kheti, hari rahey/ Sandal se maang, bachchon/ Se godi bhari rahey (May the parting in Bano’s hair always carry a streak of sandalwood and may her house always be filled with the laughter of children).
My grandmother could actually recite passages from Padmavat, the classic in Avadhi written by Malik Mohammad Jaisi. This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana? That somewhat ravaged monument at the entrance of Nizamuddin East in New Delhi is his tomb.
And what of Saiyid Ibrahim Raskhan’s unparalleled adoration for that ‘naughty boy from Gokul’ or Salbeg’s lyrics on Jagannath never sung better than by Sikandar Alam. Or Nazir Akbarabadi on Krishna Raas, Mahadev, Guru Nanak. And if you have had enough of the 19th century let me introduce you to modern poets. Krishn ka hun pujari/ Ali ka banda hoon/ Yagana shaan-e-khuda/ Dekh kar raha na Gaya (I am a pujari of Krishna and a devotee of Ali/ I cannot help myself when I see the wonders of God).
Just in case you didn’t know, the longest running serial, Mahabharat, which almost transformed Hinduism into a congregational religion, was written by Masoom Raza Rahi.
And why restrict ourselves to literature? Ustad Fayyaz Khan had a series of compositions but of none was he more proud than: Manmohan Braj ke Rasiya (Colourful Krishna in Braj land). Visit Ustad Alauddin Khan’s house in Maihar and you will be witness to one of the great spectacles of composite culture. The great master said his namaaz five times a day but his music he derived from Saraswati, who adorns all the walls of his house.
When my friend Raghu Rai and I visited Malikarjun Mansoor, Gangubai Hangal and Bhimsen Joshi, prominent on their walls were photographs of their respective gurus, Manjhe Khan and Ustad Abdul Karim Khan. Ibrahim Adil Shah, the King of Bijapur in the 18th century begins his great work on music Kitaab-e-Nauras with Saraswati Vandana. Had Dara Shikoh not translated the Upanishads into Persian, the transmission of Hindu thought to the West would have had to rely on some other route.
I have not even mentioned Khushi Mohammad, the pujari who looks after Goga Merhi temple in Ganganagar and Adam Malik from Baktot village in Pahalgam who discovered the Amarnath shrine. One third of the proceeds from the shrine to this day go to the descendents of Mailk.
But in the 10th year of the destruction of the Babri Masjid, none of this seems relevant. Would Modi, Singhal or Togadia understand any of this? They were not around when I went out and made 50 short films on these themes. Oh the passion with which I undertook the expedition. Except for my cousin Jimmy’s mad pursuit of these themes, I was alone even then. Today I feel different, probably lonely and there is a difference.
#20 Posted by arjun_m on December 12, 2002 2:07:33 pm
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#21 Posted by qusman1 on December 12, 2002 2:07:33 pm
Something I`ve noted in my interactions with Hindu Gujaratis from India is a sense of strong religious polarization in their society. So you hear of `Gujaratis` as against `Muslims`, while in Pakistan, we`ll use `Gujarati` for a Memon or a Hindu. Note that Gujarati newspapers coming out in Karachi use the common script (which evolved from cursive Devanagari).
Anyway, to the `Mera Bhaarat Mahaan Brigade` I say: Keep scratching your heads in dismay. Modi will probably end up as your PM. And he`ll ride a chariot pulled by your obsessive forward-caste delusions and complexes over Pakistan.
#22 Posted by Ralph on December 12, 2002 3:00:33 pm
It is frightening to see someone like Modi rise to power in Gujrat.
#23 Posted by einsteinwallah on December 12, 2002 3:53:34 pm
[ #21 by the_happy_one on December 12, 2002 2:07pm PT
...
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
...
This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana?
...
]
Does anybody remember? We did not even know. No question about remembering because in the first place we did not know it so we did not forget it. Or may be the question is addressed to urdu speaking people? Did the people, who entered Sabarmati Express carrying gasoline cans, knew about this? Or, forgetting of this gems occured at another level? May be their parents simply forgot to sing these songs because somebody told them that they are unislamic? I am thinking who may be such a bad guy who would say something like that? You would perhaps not accept Jinnah or Suhrawardy as the answer. Would you?
-einsteinwallah
PS: Thank you the_happy_one for posting such a nice piece by Naqvi. Frankly I did not know many of things he writes. -ew
...
Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.
A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi
...
This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana?
...
]
Does anybody remember? We did not even know. No question about remembering because in the first place we did not know it so we did not forget it. Or may be the question is addressed to urdu speaking people? Did the people, who entered Sabarmati Express carrying gasoline cans, knew about this? Or, forgetting of this gems occured at another level? May be their parents simply forgot to sing these songs because somebody told them that they are unislamic? I am thinking who may be such a bad guy who would say something like that? You would perhaps not accept Jinnah or Suhrawardy as the answer. Would you?
-einsteinwallah
PS: Thank you the_happy_one for posting such a nice piece by Naqvi. Frankly I did not know many of things he writes. -ew
#24 Posted by Shah on December 12, 2002 4:34:25 pm
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#25 Posted by Urstruly on December 12, 2002 6:52:38 pm
Chowk Staff Please
Where is my post please. Is it censored please. If it is censored then why it is censored. Since when you have started censoring posts? I am starting to get disappointed; I am so appalled I can`t even say ``welcome back`` to Farzana; if our posts are going to be censored then what`s the use?
#26 Posted by Pankaj on December 12, 2002 6:52:39 pm
I do not remember any leader in modern India who was chided and condemned more than Modi. I guess one will be hard pressed to find well educated men and women who can eulogise Modi in open. The media condemned Modi; especially the national level newspapers came all out against Modi. Yet this man appears to succeed in elections. I would be pleasantly surprised if I am proved wrong. But I am afraid that I am right considering the exit polls. Elections in India are mostly free and fair with a very few exceptions. Economy could not be the reason as a look on the State GDP would show. Gujrat was the engine of growth for India charting above 8% growth figures. Illiteracy could not be the reason for Gujrat is one of the more literate states. Obviously secular forces have their ``paap ka pitara`` and their previous Karmas are haunting them. It is time for the secular forces to know their opponent and analyze their own weaknesses. Only a dispassionate analysis could reveal why development issue failed to strike a chord with the masses and lost to the VHP antics. Perhaps it is time for introspection on the future direction India needs to take.
#27 Posted by m_souza on December 12, 2002 6:55:34 pm
Farzana means to day...not a single one of the mentioned leaders is good. I think we should import Musshi Uncle from India..after all he is also in the same boat as Advani. Come back home mate..
``Advani is from Karachi but now trying desperately to find a place for himself by becoming a religious fanatic``..says Farzana
But Musharraf is from Delhi and so desperately trying to plesse the Mullahs and Jamalis...desperately trying to proove that he is not a Mohajir.
These things have been going on since times immemorial...Babar, Ghazni, Ghauri, Tamurlaine, Changhez Khan...all of them must have scared the wits out of the local Hindus of the Mediveal India. But all present day Muslims hail them as heros...the very people who changed the `naksha` of our country yt destruction and conversions... so much so that the trouble is never ending.. All that is happenign today is the long drawn consequence of what happened years ago.
So, just like that Mediveal phase did not stay...this will also go away...maybe once Hindus find thier lost glory
``Advani is from Karachi but now trying desperately to find a place for himself by becoming a religious fanatic``..says Farzana
But Musharraf is from Delhi and so desperately trying to plesse the Mullahs and Jamalis...desperately trying to proove that he is not a Mohajir.
These things have been going on since times immemorial...Babar, Ghazni, Ghauri, Tamurlaine, Changhez Khan...all of them must have scared the wits out of the local Hindus of the Mediveal India. But all present day Muslims hail them as heros...the very people who changed the `naksha` of our country yt destruction and conversions... so much so that the trouble is never ending.. All that is happenign today is the long drawn consequence of what happened years ago.
So, just like that Mediveal phase did not stay...this will also go away...maybe once Hindus find thier lost glory
#28 Posted by rsridhar on December 12, 2002 8:52:29 pm
re:#26 by Pankaj
``Gujrat was the engine of growth for India charting above 8% growth figures``
You obviously are unaware of the fact that growth rate in gujarat in recent times have been less than 2%. The engine of growth lies in South, driven by Software companies in Bangalore and Hyderabad. All that Gujjus are capable of doing is: buying and selling Shares in ``Satta Bazaar`` which does not require much of a brain. Now, to the love for money is added hatred for muslims. This seem to have been indoctrined in the past 15 years or so by the pro-BJP elements in the state. This is what will become of whole of India if every Indian starts thinking and acting like a Gujju. The saving grace is everyone does not and therein lies our hope.
Sridhar
``Gujrat was the engine of growth for India charting above 8% growth figures``
You obviously are unaware of the fact that growth rate in gujarat in recent times have been less than 2%. The engine of growth lies in South, driven by Software companies in Bangalore and Hyderabad. All that Gujjus are capable of doing is: buying and selling Shares in ``Satta Bazaar`` which does not require much of a brain. Now, to the love for money is added hatred for muslims. This seem to have been indoctrined in the past 15 years or so by the pro-BJP elements in the state. This is what will become of whole of India if every Indian starts thinking and acting like a Gujju. The saving grace is everyone does not and therein lies our hope.
Sridhar
#29 Posted by Humsab on December 12, 2002 8:52:29 pm
BJP winning in Gujarat does not mean a thing until and unless it gets heavy mandate. Excerpts from the report:-
Exit polls give Gujarat to BJP
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, DECEMBER 12, 2002 08:01:17 PM ]
Reflecting this warning, the mood in the BJP here was sombre rather than upbeat. A senior Cabinet minister, watching the exit polls on TV said, ``If we just make it, we won`t gain very much from this victory. Of course, if we lose, it will damage us very much in the coming assembly elections.``
Given the BJP`s self-created hype of a `Hindu wave` sweeping Gujarat to restore the state`s ``gaurav``, a simple majority would be — as a BJP leader put it — ``at least a slap on the wrist for us``. A narrow win — or loss — would mean its attempt to return to the Hindutva agenda would have been negated. ``After this, I don`t think we can replicate the Gujarat experiment anywhere else,`` a party leader said.
Underlying this ``caution``, of course, is the fact that Modi has annoyed so many BJP leaders that there are mixed feelings about his winning an election at all. Asked whether a BJP victory for Modi would put him ahead of others in the party, a peer said, ``If he just scrapes through, Modi will just be chief minister, nothing more,`` adding that the party`s regional leaders in the past have never actually made it in Delhi.
Exit polls give Gujarat to BJP
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, DECEMBER 12, 2002 08:01:17 PM ]
Reflecting this warning, the mood in the BJP here was sombre rather than upbeat. A senior Cabinet minister, watching the exit polls on TV said, ``If we just make it, we won`t gain very much from this victory. Of course, if we lose, it will damage us very much in the coming assembly elections.``
Given the BJP`s self-created hype of a `Hindu wave` sweeping Gujarat to restore the state`s ``gaurav``, a simple majority would be — as a BJP leader put it — ``at least a slap on the wrist for us``. A narrow win — or loss — would mean its attempt to return to the Hindutva agenda would have been negated. ``After this, I don`t think we can replicate the Gujarat experiment anywhere else,`` a party leader said.
Underlying this ``caution``, of course, is the fact that Modi has annoyed so many BJP leaders that there are mixed feelings about his winning an election at all. Asked whether a BJP victory for Modi would put him ahead of others in the party, a peer said, ``If he just scrapes through, Modi will just be chief minister, nothing more,`` adding that the party`s regional leaders in the past have never actually made it in Delhi.
#30 Posted by Ras on December 12, 2002 8:52:29 pm
Welcome back FV...
Your absence here was noted by many.
Hope that all is well.
This writing certainly displays a lot of range.
Many observations and personalities are encountered here.
Personally, I believe that Vajpayee is the better face of the BJP copared to Modi, Advani etc.
Gujrat is a scar that will not leave Indian history easily.
Like another article concerning Muslims currently here on CHOWK, one can hope that MODERATE HINDUS will prevail in India or the country will lose all its recent gains.
Ras
#32 Posted by m_souza on December 12, 2002 8:52:30 pm
Why do people keep repeating that the outcome of the Gujarat polls will judge the future of the rest of India?
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
#33 Posted by m_souza on December 12, 2002 8:52:30 pm
Why do people keep repeating that the outcome of the Gujarat polls will judge the future of the rest of India?
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
If ignorant-emotional people from a high-strung state are asked to choose between two equally incompetent (or competent?) parties, then whatever is the outcome it won’t make sense. People who do not find the tactics of Congress any better than BJP may end up choosing anything out of frustration.
And also, when Gujarat was burning in riots how did it affect the rest of India? Well, not a single sane person in other states ever approved of what happened there. Full sympathies were there for the innocent victims whether burnt alive on the train and more so for those brutally killed later by the retaliating mob. And the riots did not spread to the rest of India as was feared.
Therefore let these polls not be the measuring tape for India’s future
#34 Posted by rsridhar on December 12, 2002 9:06:21 pm
re:#19 by qusman1
Modi will become India`s pm one day!
Fortunately, democracy works differently. It is like a tug of war. Only, all factions have a say in this ``tug of war``. Modi faction dominates in Gujarat the way Thackeray facition ruled the roost in Maharashtra in the past. Did Thackeray become PM? Heck, no. Educate yourself how democracy functions. Most of us secular people would like to see Modi defeated but if he wins, we will live to fight another day. Nothing is lost. India is not so weak as to succumb to the hatred of a lunatic.
Sridhar
Modi will become India`s pm one day!
Fortunately, democracy works differently. It is like a tug of war. Only, all factions have a say in this ``tug of war``. Modi faction dominates in Gujarat the way Thackeray facition ruled the roost in Maharashtra in the past. Did Thackeray become PM? Heck, no. Educate yourself how democracy functions. Most of us secular people would like to see Modi defeated but if he wins, we will live to fight another day. Nothing is lost. India is not so weak as to succumb to the hatred of a lunatic.
Sridhar
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