Saud’s Arabia?

``#8 by sameerJB on August 29, 2003 9:09pm PT
Rizwan:

The wahabi-deobandi sects are the worst extensions and most venomous tentacles of Islam. ``


SameerJB,

You will not believe this. May be rightfully so.

(Just for my knowledge. Wahabi, I do not know (Saudi?). But Deoband, I know, is made in India, is it not?.)

Very funny. Hamari behena byahi gayi hain in the neighborhood of Deoband. Rakhi bandhanian lene gaya tha et time. Just thought I could see it. Visted. Told the guys very frankly. I am Balasaheb Thakarey`s ardent follower.

I was absolutely stunned.

The guys not only very openly welcomed me, they made it a point that every single of my questions was answered.

I did not like some of the answers. Openly disagreed. There was no venom at all.

What I was stunned about was... They told me again and again. Apki behenaji ko bhi leke ana yaha. Jub kab bhi aap chahate ho. Koyi gushatakhi nahi hoti hain yaha pe. Hum kabhibhi kisika bura nahi sochatain hain.

Did not know what we exported. By the way, why did you accept it?

Preabmle to rambling ...

I think when we Indians lost Panditji, we lost a visionary, a leader.

His socialism is not what I liked at all, but he was a visionary. A tireless, 24/7 visionary, with a mission to make India better. He stood there and took a position and is still taking the pot shots. We miss his vision today. A coward like me can only wish or whine.

Rest below is simply rambling.

This is right time to have a reconciliation between hindus and muslims in India. Hindus fanatics (us) are ruling and have all power. Muslims are on the run all over the world. If and only if likes of us (Atlaji?) rise to the occasion and say let us talk, do not vote for me, but let us talk, it will make hell of difference. No body will challange our patriotism. Our Jawahara`s and Nasah may not vote for us. But we will be only country in the world where muslims will think they are not only proud, they are proud to be muslims. They still have a place to hold their head high. We will loose one or two elections. May be three/four. It will still be worth it. It will be my country where every one of the countryma/women will be proud, of cource barring exported idiots.

What the heck, we can wait for 50 years or so with China to take care of our disputes, we can of cource afford to wait 10/20 years mandeer/masjid dispute.

Yogiraj Patil

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Great article, deserves wider spread.

````What is the basis of the monarchy`s power? Take a look at the Saudi Arabian flag. What do you see? The Kalima? So far so good. Now look a little below and you will understand what the regime is based on. Observed Ardeshir Cowasjee in a DAWN op-ed piece, `Any student of Islamic history knows that power depends on the length of the sword and the sharpness of its blade.````

Yes, power flows from the length and sharpness of the sword . . . and the increasingly efficient and high margins from the booze, flesh and narcotics (consumption) trade.


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Lonely Plant says ````Today`s Saudi Arabia has held on to its mystique by being incredibly difficult to visit - there`s no such thing as a tourist visa in this country.```` So we go by what the authorities say. And some of what they say is . . . http://travel.state.gov/saudi.html

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From the US Consular Services . . .````The U.S. Embassy in Saudi Arabia believes it useful to remind that the overall security situation remains unchanged for both official and private Americans. All Americans in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia should continue to exercise caution in matters concerning personal security. Americans should try to maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for travel, and treat mail from unfamiliar sources with suspicion.````

````The Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia. ````

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````Traffic accidents are a significant hazard in Saudi Arabia. Driving habits are generally poor, and accidents involving vehicles driven by minors are not uncommon. In the event of a traffic accident resulting in personal injury, all persons involved (if not in the hospital) may be taken to the local police station. Drivers are likely to be held for several days until responsibility is determined and any reparations paid. In many cases, all drivers are held in custody regardless of fault.````

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````Saudi authorities do not permit criticism of Islam or the royal family.````

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Rizwan:

You made the case against Saudi monarchy very well from commonly known information. Some people believe that much larger - not publically known - amount of information of the workings of Saudi family is known to world intelligence communities and insiders. Some of the information is eye-opener and some dastardly outrageous and pathetic. They have their hands in many many small and big evils around the world and especially Pakistan due to general respect for the keepers of holy mosques, bribes to officials, fundings to religious and jihadic organizations and the soft favorable terms for buying petroleum products.

I recall once Bob Woodward released some inside information in his book about Iran-contra deals and Saudi connection. It was about Fahd. King Fahd has been suffering from cyrrhosis for many years know caused by heavy drinking. He has been in the habit of waking up early in the morning at 12:00 noon after getting drunk every night. Many of the top members of family are drug addicts using cocaine and hashish. Egyptian Anwar Sadaat was also very fond of smoking hashish.

Renaming of my ancestoral city to a Saudi king has pained me a lot. I still intentionally call and write, LYALLPUR and no fukkin` Faisalabad.

The wahabi-deobandi sects are the worst extensions and most venomous tentacles of Islam.

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This has to be among the best articles I have read on chowk, both in terms of substance and in terms of readability.
It is indeed telling that the ``Saud`` in Saudi Arabia stands for one lousy tribe of thugs that managed to take power during a period of interregnum. The article also exposes the hypocrisy of the Qazi Hussein Ahmed types.

The article is also correct in noting that Saudis are responsible for exporting their criminal ideology in other parts of the world. No doubt the madrassah culture in Pakistan is the direct result of this Saudi ideology. This culture is the antithesis of Islam, as anyone reading the Quran with understanding will know.

Hang all these damn Wahabbis, Saudis, bin Ladens. And also hang all these damned hypocrites that go around piously in beards in Pakistan. Amen.

Saudi Arabia: A Primer

A unique entity in the banals of history and anals of geography.

A beehive model comes to mind. The monarch produces its own populace . The great and great-grand and even greater-grand cousins-cum-cousins are never even once removed & never removed. All of these get their share of honey and are supposed to keep the monarch primp & preen--by licking off the honey and keeping a count of the laid (not eggs) ones. They merge , mingle & fade away into a more & more alien populace from desilands which work as drones here. They make a bee-line (what else) to the hive-cleaning jobs and get some taste of this honey.

In a unique symbiotic relationship, in the abovesaid anals & banals trait, this honey is of immense use to some users who choose to keep their own honey for reigny days (meaning if & when the reign of the saudi monarchs is over). Hence at present they have reined -in their desire to let the honeypot drip.

Rizwan:

...Saudi Arabia is a partnership between the wahabi clerics and saud`s princelings...you have not written enought to expose it...

...they are the evil conjoined twins...

veeru

...yaar for a street smart person you can be very naive sometimes:)...

...the regressive tantacles of the wahabi version of islam is what is largely responsible for the muslim mess worldwide...am not saying they are solely responsible...just largely...look at the rise of fanaticism in the once (relatively) peaceful backwaters of south western india (kerala etc.) and trace it to the pseudo (wahabi) islamic influence of those who left for work in saudia and returned...

rgds,

t

Interesting article. I agree about the part relating to Saudi Arabia.

I do not agree with some of the other parts, like liberation from Taliban, through the USA. The Taliban wouldn’t be in power to begin with, had it not been for the USA (and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia), and its massive jehad in Afghanistan. And replacing them with Northern Alliance thugs, isn’t really a liberation. At least not according to RAWA, the revolutionary Afghan women’s association. They consider both, Taliban and Northern Alliance, to be equal thugs – each bringing its own set of problems.

I think within the next ten years there will be another war in Afghanistan, to get rid of the Northern Alliance leaders, who were used to get rid of the Taliban.

I think the common Arabs hate Americans too much now. And the American govt. needs the Royal families, too much now. It’s been like that for a few decades. However, now it has started receiving press, because it has reached American shores.

There is an interesting scene developing in Saudi Arabia. The US and OBL maybe on the same side now, in removing the Saud family. I doubt this will happen though. The US is far too allied with the Saudi royal family, to do anything about it. A few reports from Cato isn’t going to change that. The Saudi king still goes to Bush’s Texas ranch. And I am sure Prince Abdullah is far more scared of OBL kicking him out, than of George Bush kicking him out.

Many of us, before the Iraq war, had pointed out that if the USA wants to end Islamic extremism, it should go after Saudi Arabia – not after Iraq. I personally consider the USA’s attack on Iraq to be State terrorism. Much like WTC was terrorism. And the consequence of terrorism is always more terrorism from the other side, not less. The real threat faced by the USA is from Saudi Arabia. Other countries like Pakistan face a threat from the extremism financing coming from Saudi Arabia also.

Why doesn’t the USA then go after Saudi Arabia? In fact, why is it bent upon keeping the royal family in power. Why don’t US Congressman, instead of writing anti-Saud articles, to please their electorate, actually push the President to dump the Saudi family. They could easily do so, if they wanted to.

The US troops were attacking Iraq to rid Iraq of a dictator. While the US troops were protecting another brutal dictatorship (as pointed out by this article), across the border in Saudi Arabia. Doesn’t make sense. Not a single Sep 11 hijacker was Iraqi. Yet Iraq has been bombed to smithereens. While Saudis are still in the US good books. In fact, OBL is doing more to get rid of the Saudi royal family, than the USA is.

The answer is, of course, oil. Oil apparently can make people do strange things. It turns friends into enemies and enemies into friends. Saudi Arabia has 25% of the world’s known oil. Iraq has another 11-13%. Combine that with Iran, and 40% of the world’s oil is under the control of countries, whose citizens hate the USA with a passion.

If the USA gets rid of the Saudi royal family (which is the only way it is going to go), and some sort of a democracy appears in Saudi Arabia, it will be very anti-US. Much like the Irani democracy. And much like an Iraqi democracy, if elections are allowed in Iraq. So, democracy in these three areas, means: a democratically elected extremely anti-US Shia theocracy in Iran. A democratically elected anti-US Shia theocracy in Iraq. And a democratically elected anti-US Sunni theocracy in Saudi Arabia. Democratically elected anti-US maulvis controlling 40% of the world’s oil. This would be a bigger nightmare for the USA than supporting the current royal family.

I think the plan may have been to get Iraq under a pro-US govt. first, and then to dump Saudi Arabia. However, as we have seen, that doesn’t seem to be working out. The most powerful and well-organized group with the largest votebank in Iraq are the Shia clerics. So Iraq is being run aimlessly by a pro-US council of people who haven’t lived there for thirty years. While people are bent upon calling for elections in Pakistan, they same, “democrats” are completely mum about elections in Iraq.

Middle East is a huge mess. And will continue to be a bigger mess as long as there is an alliance with ruthless dictatorships and the USA. This cycle of supporting one ruthless dictator, then getting rid of him through another dictator has to end. Otherwise, I cannot see a different future than more Iraq invasions and more terrorism from Arabs. It’s a lose-lose situation for everyone.


If one wants to get rid of dictators, and establish democracy, one has to be willing to accept religious parties in power, if they are democratically elected. People will have to get over this fear, because religious parties are currently the main opposition to the dictators in Middle East. The only other option is to support the Sauds, and the Taliban and the Northern Alliance and the Saddams and the Pehalvis etc. What do all these names have in common?

One cannot have it both ways.

wow. i never thought i would see the day when people from memri would be writing articles for chowk.

chowk staff:

congrats. you guys have arrived. this is a completely different league from s.a. tribune.

Grandpa rode a camel, papa drove a car, I fly a jet, my son will drive a car and my grandson - he gets a camel!

Why exactly is there such a fear of the Wahhabi-Deobandi lot amongst other Muslims, is something I have not understood for some time now. It cannot be only about oil money.