Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
Beynaam Badshah December 20, 2002
#115 Posted by jay on December 25, 2002 7:03:08 am
Hamidm,
One can act and may be react to the events only through a system of interpretation, and in that sense TNT and jihad are central concepts that guide the pak society, at least in one interpretation of it.
Many, even on chowk, who cannot see this, talk of solving the kashmir issue, think of 9/11 as a CIA plot, want the world to believe that Osama is a bearded nomad herding goats. I recognise that pakistanis come up with cow urine drinking and the like, but they have no interpretive power like the TNT and jihad.
To give an example, the notion of controlling the jihadic frontier, is now a widely accepted idea, talked about on the chowk, several years ago.
One can act and may be react to the events only through a system of interpretation, and in that sense TNT and jihad are central concepts that guide the pak society, at least in one interpretation of it.
Many, even on chowk, who cannot see this, talk of solving the kashmir issue, think of 9/11 as a CIA plot, want the world to believe that Osama is a bearded nomad herding goats. I recognise that pakistanis come up with cow urine drinking and the like, but they have no interpretive power like the TNT and jihad.
To give an example, the notion of controlling the jihadic frontier, is now a widely accepted idea, talked about on the chowk, several years ago.
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#114 Posted by mohar11 on December 24, 2002 9:27:46 pm
#109 by arjun_m
//...Now you average pakis have to live with the consequences... ///
As you sow, so you reap - the saying goes. For the average pakistani - it was quite fun when it lasted. The Jehadis were whipping hindu azz in Kashmir - 30,000 dead, 300,000 displaced, an army of ``700,000`` is beaten: it was only a matter of time the ``cowardly`` hindu army surrenders to the ``brave`` muslim jehadis. Alright brothers - throw in a few more rupees in that donation box in the street corner.
So the donation boxes in pakistani bazzars were overflowing with cash for the ``good cause`` and pakistanis were getting maximum bang for their money.
Now that the pay back time has come - the ``brave`` muslims have started whinning like little girls. Oh well....
//...Now you average pakis have to live with the consequences... ///
As you sow, so you reap - the saying goes. For the average pakistani - it was quite fun when it lasted. The Jehadis were whipping hindu azz in Kashmir - 30,000 dead, 300,000 displaced, an army of ``700,000`` is beaten: it was only a matter of time the ``cowardly`` hindu army surrenders to the ``brave`` muslim jehadis. Alright brothers - throw in a few more rupees in that donation box in the street corner.
So the donation boxes in pakistani bazzars were overflowing with cash for the ``good cause`` and pakistanis were getting maximum bang for their money.
Now that the pay back time has come - the ``brave`` muslims have started whinning like little girls. Oh well....
#113 Posted by mohar11 on December 24, 2002 9:27:46 pm
Talibanisation of Kashmir?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?artid=32293098
``Close on the heels of beheading four women in Rajouri district and the burning of a cigarette shop, militant outfits have directed Muslims to follow a set of guidelines like the Taliban had done in Afghanistan.
``
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?artid=32293098
``Close on the heels of beheading four women in Rajouri district and the burning of a cigarette shop, militant outfits have directed Muslims to follow a set of guidelines like the Taliban had done in Afghanistan.
``
#112 Posted by Ras on December 24, 2002 9:27:46 pm
OPINION From The Nation (Lahore) December 25th. 2002
What clash of civilisations?
Izzat Majeed
It is time to forget this whole mess about the `clash of civilisations.` Yes, there is a `civilisation` in the advanced, market-based democracies in the West. But there is no `Islamic civilisation` today, and there has not been one since the collapse of the great Abbasi Empire when Halaku Khan, the grandson of Chengiz Khan, burnt Baghdad to the ground in 1250. That fire also destroyed what was by then the greatest library the world had ever seen.
After the fall of Baghdad, the unified empire of Islam and the civilisation it gave rise to, dissipated into regional kingdoms. Muslim rule survived in Al-Andalus and some of the great debates surrounding the de facto secular nature of the Abbasis continued unabated but they did not outlive the end of Muslim rule in Spain.
Islam`s golden period created the Islamic Civilisation. It was based on a spirit of inquiry, tolerance of different views of religion, society, and the interpretation Islam`s early centuries. The Abbasis in Baghdad and the Muslims in Spain created the basis of what could have been a dynamic, constantly evolving and progressive Islamic Civilisation. But by the beginning of the 14th century, this great Civilisation was frozen in time and place by the rulers and jurists of the day who proclaimed the end of debate and dialogue.
Islam never saw another unified empire. The Ottoman empire did lay claim to a caliphate of sorts but, ultimately, it remained an Ottoman entity that happened to be Muslim. The Mughals of India ruled India as secular Muslims. Emperor Akbar even tried to create a fusion of religions (the `Din-e-Ilahi` - religion of God) which, in its failure, only highlighted the secular nature of the Mughal empire. And when the last of the great Mughals, Aurangzeb, turned fanatic, it hastened the collapse of the empire. Islam saw lesser kingdoms from the Maghreb to the Far East, but they were all local and regional.
The dawn of the bourgeois nation-state, along with the collapse of `empire` in Europe and the consolidation of capitalism after 1848, further eroded any collective sense of `civilisation` within Islam. The Muslim `Ummah,` which had expired with the collapse of the Abbasis, begun to think in terms of individual national liberation movements.
Thus the nationalism of the anti-colonial struggle in Muslim-majority areas in the 20th century developed into a secular struggle for independence and human rights. Islam was never the ideological force in any of these nationalist movements. In India, the Muslims (a minority in social and economic decline) started off alongside the Hindus in the independence struggle. The ulema were dead against the creation of Pakistan. The Quaid-e-Azam, the founder of Pakistan, was a nationalist who only sought minority protection in the face of Hindu obduracy and the classical British ``divide and rule`` policy. Here is what the Quaid said on the eve of Pakistan`s creation to the Constituent Assembly:
``You may belong to any religion or creed, that has nothing to do with the business of state --- you will find that in due course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.``
The Quaid died soon after this speech and the mullahs waylaid his secular Pakistan and robbed the Muslims of any civilised future. After all the Muslims of South Asia form over 40 percent of the world`s total Muslim population. So, when we get worked up about the `clash of civilisations`, we are merely confusing the existing `Western` civilisation with a defunct `Islamic` one. Yes, there is a clash. But it is not between Muslims and the West. It is a clash of haves and have-nots. It is a clash of the rich, arrogant, enfranchised US-led West and the poor, humiliated and disenfranchised peoples of underdeveloped countries, which happen to have Muslim majority populations.
The Muslims do not hate America. They hate US policies, be they for the control of oil (creating the whole mess in the Middle East and beyond) or access to markets, or keeping the war machine in shape. Give a Muslim half a chance and he (and more so, she) would love to be educated in the US, benefiting from all the freedoms enjoyed by American citizens (the present curtailment of human rights there notwithstanding). And he would also fight to bring those freedoms to his people.
We forget the US is an imperial power, no different from any other in history. Rome was the centre of the world. It was the dream of every Roman subject to get Latin rights, the then equivalent of a `green card`, or better still, full citizenship. The ``barbarians``, when defeated, became the most ferocious defenders of the Empire. One such ``outsider``, Philip, the Arab, rose to become Caesar (244-249) during the thousandth year of Rome. It is in the nature of an imperial power to constantly seek consolidation and extension of ``empire`` with all the economic, cultural, political and military power at its command.
So, there is no reason to cry with the tears of Western `civilisation` when it is acting in the only way that makes sense to its imperial dictates. We Muslims have no civilisation (Islamic or secular) to defend. Ignorance, poverty, the dark rule of self-inflicted dogmas, ruled by corrupt (and visionless) dictators, do not make a civilisation.
I cannot name a single `Muslim` country with any degree of democratic, `civilised` government today, and none is in sight. The millennium-old practice of Islam has a long, long way to go before it can be called civilised. So, where is the `clash of civilisations?` It is the age-old struggle of the downtrodden wanting just a loaf of bread and the freedom to eat it any which way they like.
It is pathetic and meaningless when Muslim fanatics talk about `jihad` against Western civilisation while enjoying all its benefits in their own dark and un-free societies. It is just as well that the vast majority of Muslims do not much care about these fanatics.
Look at the `Islamic` world and you will see that, with the exception of Iran and the Gulfdoms, all other Muslim countries are de facto secular societies governed by the civil law of the West. Iran is a special case (given the history of Shia-ism which comprises, at best, 10-15 percent of all Muslims) and the Gulfdoms are mere oil rentiers with illusions of nationhood living at the mercy of the West. The Gulf Muslims cannot drink oil (especially as it is unrefined and they can not make even the smallest nut or bolt of a refinery).
Islamic `fundamentalism` is a meaningless term, but the fundamentals of Islam are simple: belief in One God, prayer, fasting, charity (Zakat) and pilgrimage (Hajj). `Jihad`, about which the whole world is crying hoarse, particularly the Muslim fanatics, is not a fundamental pillar of Islam. In any event, the meaning of jihad, as mindless warlordism, is alien to Islam. In the fundamental pillars of Islam, there is nothing that can justify the religious mayhem a tiny minority of Muslims is desperately trying to inflict on the world at large. Fortunately, the vast majority of Muslims do not support the fundamentalists (the Mullah Business Ltd).
Most of us are too busy going about our disenfranchised and poverty-stricken lives to worry about the mullah`s world. However, the greater the disenfranchisement (look at the current political scene) and the more miserable the level of poverty and illiteracy, the more harmless the appeal of Islamic fanaticism. We may yet descend into the Taliban hell by default, given the current mullah-army nexus which seems to think it has finally hoodwinked the people into thinking they have reached the `end of politics.`
The lost `civilisation` of Islam has to be rediscovered with the mind of the 21st century. The mullahs offer nothing more than a dictatorship of the truly ignorant over the apathetic. It will be a long battle before the war against the present dark age of Islam can be won. The golden age of Islam is only relevant in giving us the freedom to think and interpret Islam. The mullah, on the other hand, wants to go back to camels and flying carpets.
The West, particularly the US, is not invincible if civilisations were to clash in earnest. The Chinese, Indian and Japanese, `civilisations` have clashed with the West at one time or another. The Chinese and Indians wanted independence; the Japanese economic domination. The Chinese and Indian `clashes` won; the Japanese lost, but then had the vision to learn from the West and prospered dramatically while keeping their own civilisation more or less wrapped up in Western clothes. The wars of independence in the post-1945 era defeated the West. The Vietnamese people defeated the US comprehensively, and yet, today, are trading and learning from their former enemy.
The time has come for us Muslims to declare jihad on our own ignorance and on the mullah`s hijacking of Islam. `There is no compulsion in religion` - Allah says so in the Quran. The US will always create its own demons to fight and conquer. The fingerprints they seek today are not of an Islamic civilisation (which the Muslims have to rediscover) but of an enemy they themselves have created.
What clash of civilisations?
Izzat Majeed
It is time to forget this whole mess about the `clash of civilisations.` Yes, there is a `civilisation` in the advanced, market-based democracies in the West. But there is no `Islamic civilisation` today, and there has not been one since the collapse of the great Abbasi Empire when Halaku Khan, the grandson of Chengiz Khan, burnt Baghdad to the ground in 1250. That fire also destroyed what was by then the greatest library the world had ever seen.
After the fall of Baghdad, the unified empire of Islam and the civilisation it gave rise to, dissipated into regional kingdoms. Muslim rule survived in Al-Andalus and some of the great debates surrounding the de facto secular nature of the Abbasis continued unabated but they did not outlive the end of Muslim rule in Spain.
Islam`s golden period created the Islamic Civilisation. It was based on a spirit of inquiry, tolerance of different views of religion, society, and the interpretation Islam`s early centuries. The Abbasis in Baghdad and the Muslims in Spain created the basis of what could have been a dynamic, constantly evolving and progressive Islamic Civilisation. But by the beginning of the 14th century, this great Civilisation was frozen in time and place by the rulers and jurists of the day who proclaimed the end of debate and dialogue.
Islam never saw another unified empire. The Ottoman empire did lay claim to a caliphate of sorts but, ultimately, it remained an Ottoman entity that happened to be Muslim. The Mughals of India ruled India as secular Muslims. Emperor Akbar even tried to create a fusion of religions (the `Din-e-Ilahi` - religion of God) which, in its failure, only highlighted the secular nature of the Mughal empire. And when the last of the great Mughals, Aurangzeb, turned fanatic, it hastened the collapse of the empire. Islam saw lesser kingdoms from the Maghreb to the Far East, but they were all local and regional.
The dawn of the bourgeois nation-state, along with the collapse of `empire` in Europe and the consolidation of capitalism after 1848, further eroded any collective sense of `civilisation` within Islam. The Muslim `Ummah,` which had expired with the collapse of the Abbasis, begun to think in terms of individual national liberation movements.
Thus the nationalism of the anti-colonial struggle in Muslim-majority areas in the 20th century developed into a secular struggle for independence and human rights. Islam was never the ideological force in any of these nationalist movements. In India, the Muslims (a minority in social and economic decline) started off alongside the Hindus in the independence struggle. The ulema were dead against the creation of Pakistan. The Quaid-e-Azam, the founder of Pakistan, was a nationalist who only sought minority protection in the face of Hindu obduracy and the classical British ``divide and rule`` policy. Here is what the Quaid said on the eve of Pakistan`s creation to the Constituent Assembly:
``You may belong to any religion or creed, that has nothing to do with the business of state --- you will find that in due course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.``
The Quaid died soon after this speech and the mullahs waylaid his secular Pakistan and robbed the Muslims of any civilised future. After all the Muslims of South Asia form over 40 percent of the world`s total Muslim population. So, when we get worked up about the `clash of civilisations`, we are merely confusing the existing `Western` civilisation with a defunct `Islamic` one. Yes, there is a clash. But it is not between Muslims and the West. It is a clash of haves and have-nots. It is a clash of the rich, arrogant, enfranchised US-led West and the poor, humiliated and disenfranchised peoples of underdeveloped countries, which happen to have Muslim majority populations.
The Muslims do not hate America. They hate US policies, be they for the control of oil (creating the whole mess in the Middle East and beyond) or access to markets, or keeping the war machine in shape. Give a Muslim half a chance and he (and more so, she) would love to be educated in the US, benefiting from all the freedoms enjoyed by American citizens (the present curtailment of human rights there notwithstanding). And he would also fight to bring those freedoms to his people.
We forget the US is an imperial power, no different from any other in history. Rome was the centre of the world. It was the dream of every Roman subject to get Latin rights, the then equivalent of a `green card`, or better still, full citizenship. The ``barbarians``, when defeated, became the most ferocious defenders of the Empire. One such ``outsider``, Philip, the Arab, rose to become Caesar (244-249) during the thousandth year of Rome. It is in the nature of an imperial power to constantly seek consolidation and extension of ``empire`` with all the economic, cultural, political and military power at its command.
So, there is no reason to cry with the tears of Western `civilisation` when it is acting in the only way that makes sense to its imperial dictates. We Muslims have no civilisation (Islamic or secular) to defend. Ignorance, poverty, the dark rule of self-inflicted dogmas, ruled by corrupt (and visionless) dictators, do not make a civilisation.
I cannot name a single `Muslim` country with any degree of democratic, `civilised` government today, and none is in sight. The millennium-old practice of Islam has a long, long way to go before it can be called civilised. So, where is the `clash of civilisations?` It is the age-old struggle of the downtrodden wanting just a loaf of bread and the freedom to eat it any which way they like.
It is pathetic and meaningless when Muslim fanatics talk about `jihad` against Western civilisation while enjoying all its benefits in their own dark and un-free societies. It is just as well that the vast majority of Muslims do not much care about these fanatics.
Look at the `Islamic` world and you will see that, with the exception of Iran and the Gulfdoms, all other Muslim countries are de facto secular societies governed by the civil law of the West. Iran is a special case (given the history of Shia-ism which comprises, at best, 10-15 percent of all Muslims) and the Gulfdoms are mere oil rentiers with illusions of nationhood living at the mercy of the West. The Gulf Muslims cannot drink oil (especially as it is unrefined and they can not make even the smallest nut or bolt of a refinery).
Islamic `fundamentalism` is a meaningless term, but the fundamentals of Islam are simple: belief in One God, prayer, fasting, charity (Zakat) and pilgrimage (Hajj). `Jihad`, about which the whole world is crying hoarse, particularly the Muslim fanatics, is not a fundamental pillar of Islam. In any event, the meaning of jihad, as mindless warlordism, is alien to Islam. In the fundamental pillars of Islam, there is nothing that can justify the religious mayhem a tiny minority of Muslims is desperately trying to inflict on the world at large. Fortunately, the vast majority of Muslims do not support the fundamentalists (the Mullah Business Ltd).
Most of us are too busy going about our disenfranchised and poverty-stricken lives to worry about the mullah`s world. However, the greater the disenfranchisement (look at the current political scene) and the more miserable the level of poverty and illiteracy, the more harmless the appeal of Islamic fanaticism. We may yet descend into the Taliban hell by default, given the current mullah-army nexus which seems to think it has finally hoodwinked the people into thinking they have reached the `end of politics.`
The lost `civilisation` of Islam has to be rediscovered with the mind of the 21st century. The mullahs offer nothing more than a dictatorship of the truly ignorant over the apathetic. It will be a long battle before the war against the present dark age of Islam can be won. The golden age of Islam is only relevant in giving us the freedom to think and interpret Islam. The mullah, on the other hand, wants to go back to camels and flying carpets.
The West, particularly the US, is not invincible if civilisations were to clash in earnest. The Chinese, Indian and Japanese, `civilisations` have clashed with the West at one time or another. The Chinese and Indians wanted independence; the Japanese economic domination. The Chinese and Indian `clashes` won; the Japanese lost, but then had the vision to learn from the West and prospered dramatically while keeping their own civilisation more or less wrapped up in Western clothes. The wars of independence in the post-1945 era defeated the West. The Vietnamese people defeated the US comprehensively, and yet, today, are trading and learning from their former enemy.
The time has come for us Muslims to declare jihad on our own ignorance and on the mullah`s hijacking of Islam. `There is no compulsion in religion` - Allah says so in the Quran. The US will always create its own demons to fight and conquer. The fingerprints they seek today are not of an Islamic civilisation (which the Muslims have to rediscover) but of an enemy they themselves have created.
#111 Posted by khamkhwa. on December 24, 2002 9:27:46 pm
Whoever says that arjun_m is biased, is a liar.arjun tells things as they are and he does not hate the muslims,because he himself is an aethist born of a christian mother and hindu pandit father.The only thing he hates is pakistan and pakistanis and he has a very valid reason for that hatred.His father is sindhi hindu pandit from pakistan who impregnated arjun`s mother without marrying her, resulting into a love child who is none other than our own arjun and that gentlemen is his raison d`etre.
Carry on your good work.The pakis might learn something from you ;)
Carry on your good work.The pakis might learn something from you ;)
#110 Posted by arjun_m on December 24, 2002 6:04:21 pm
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#109 Posted by arjun_m on December 24, 2002 6:04:21 pm
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#107 Posted by Pankaj on December 24, 2002 1:42:06 pm
Hamidm, the inimitable
``after a while it gets tiresome and nobody pays any attention except for fools on the other side ....... and they come back with the same old crap about cow urine and the rss ............so what`s one to do? .......... i don`t know, i look at the chowk as entertainment and you guys need to come up with some new material .........even i have given up on my horrible hindoo routine which had a pretty successful run .......... ``
Some people (including me) need to take your advice seriously :-). The old stuff has been recycled too many times for it to have any effect. Show some ingenuity guys and come up with some new ideas so that we can make our cyber-fight against ``them`` more interesting.
``after a while it gets tiresome and nobody pays any attention except for fools on the other side ....... and they come back with the same old crap about cow urine and the rss ............so what`s one to do? .......... i don`t know, i look at the chowk as entertainment and you guys need to come up with some new material .........even i have given up on my horrible hindoo routine which had a pretty successful run .......... ``
Some people (including me) need to take your advice seriously :-). The old stuff has been recycled too many times for it to have any effect. Show some ingenuity guys and come up with some new ideas so that we can make our cyber-fight against ``them`` more interesting.
#106 Posted by Ashok on December 24, 2002 12:43:13 pm
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#105 Posted by hamidm2 on December 24, 2002 12:09:27 pm
arjun and jay,
......... we all know that indians don`t like pakis and vice versa ......... but don`t you think it is a little silly to spend all your time going over the same old stuff - TNT, jihad, etc. etc ................after a while it gets tiresome and nobody pays any attention except for fools on the other side ....... and they come back with the same old crap about cow urine and the rss ............so what`s one to do? .......... i don`t know, i look at the chowk as entertainment and you guys need to come up with some new material .........even i have given up on my horrible hindoo routine which had a pretty successful run ..........
......... we all know that indians don`t like pakis and vice versa ......... but don`t you think it is a little silly to spend all your time going over the same old stuff - TNT, jihad, etc. etc ................after a while it gets tiresome and nobody pays any attention except for fools on the other side ....... and they come back with the same old crap about cow urine and the rss ............so what`s one to do? .......... i don`t know, i look at the chowk as entertainment and you guys need to come up with some new material .........even i have given up on my horrible hindoo routine which had a pretty successful run ..........
#104 Posted by arjun_m on December 24, 2002 9:37:56 am
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#103 Posted by sadna on December 24, 2002 7:08:20 am
ferozk #100
By statements issued to the press, it seem the US is going to do this with immigrants of all nationalities eventually, they are just going down the list by priority.
And donot discount an element of psychological warfare in this new measure. Going by what comes out in the press, internally, the US govt seems to be stuck between two warring schools of thought about the reliability and wholeheartedness(or lack of) of cooperation from its frontline allies the Saudi and Pakistani governments. This measure could be a peace offering between both schools of thought.
By statements issued to the press, it seem the US is going to do this with immigrants of all nationalities eventually, they are just going down the list by priority.
And donot discount an element of psychological warfare in this new measure. Going by what comes out in the press, internally, the US govt seems to be stuck between two warring schools of thought about the reliability and wholeheartedness(or lack of) of cooperation from its frontline allies the Saudi and Pakistani governments. This measure could be a peace offering between both schools of thought.
#102 Posted by ferozk on December 24, 2002 6:43:34 am
This is an answer to all those, who are wondering aloud why Pakistanis are being made the recipients of special laws in the world. which seem to be poliitcally incorrect, biased, racial in their intention and generally, can be lumped under the umbrella of a civilizational conflict between the west and Islam.
Pakistanis are being targetted by the United States` INS and made to register, because of the simple reason that the sovereign writ of the state of Pakistan has lost its legitimacy. Given the internal political situation in Pakistan, there is an international perception that Pakistan is a ``soft state``. Since the state of Pakistan itself is incapable of dealing with the law and order situation, the Americans are opting to deal it instead. That is why the FBI is conducting ``active operations`` inside Pakistan and doing the job, which Pakistani law enforcement agencies should have been doing in the first place.
This is the reason, why the Pakistanis are being subjected to the special treatment. It is common knowledge that Pakistani passports can be bought on the black market and if the price is correct, any one can become a Pakistani national; the Afghans have been doing this for the last twenty years. The term ``Pakistan`` and ``Pakistani`` has no credibility in the world. The world did not make this possible, but it was the result of the actions of the Pakistanis themselves.
Blaming the entire creation but ourselves will not alter this reality and if we, Pakistanis, wish to change this image of us in the world, then we have to make a clean break with our past and its misguided policies, which has landed us in the present cul-de-sac of our misfortunes. This policy can be reversed if and only if, Pakistanis start becoming accountable for their actions and are held responsible for this deeds or misdeeds.
Pakistanis, do not blame others for what is rightfully your own sins and the result of your own actions; learn to accept responsibility instead of shying away from it and above all, learn to accept the reality instead of pretending to believe in a self propagated myth.
I had been saying this for the last three years and I was ridiculed by many on Chowk, but the greatest threat to Pakistan comes not from India or the war on terror, but from Pakistanis themselves. We are own worst enemies. To quote and paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, ``the fate of the country rests in your hands, my fellow dissatisfied countrymen`` and remember, a house divided against itself cannot stand. Think about it and think hard and in the name of all that is holy and decent to you, stop whining and stop seeking shelter in the house of conspiracy theories. To put it bluntly, the world is not so much against us as it is against our hypocricy, our ignorance compounded by our arrogance and our holier than thou attitude.
The last time I checked, the Saudi Arabians were the custodians of Islam and not us!
This is our last clarion call; there will not be a redemption if we miss this opportunity and unlike individuals, states are mortal; states are not reincarnated in the hereafter - they exist, live and die in the present by their own wits. In the words of Dylan Thomas, we can all rage against the dying of the light or we can gently disappear into the dark night of historic failures, never to be heard again. The choice is our to make and regardless, we have to live with the consequences and this time, my fellow citizens, the American Seventh Fleet`s arrival will have a different symbology.
Ciao
Pakistanis are being targetted by the United States` INS and made to register, because of the simple reason that the sovereign writ of the state of Pakistan has lost its legitimacy. Given the internal political situation in Pakistan, there is an international perception that Pakistan is a ``soft state``. Since the state of Pakistan itself is incapable of dealing with the law and order situation, the Americans are opting to deal it instead. That is why the FBI is conducting ``active operations`` inside Pakistan and doing the job, which Pakistani law enforcement agencies should have been doing in the first place.
This is the reason, why the Pakistanis are being subjected to the special treatment. It is common knowledge that Pakistani passports can be bought on the black market and if the price is correct, any one can become a Pakistani national; the Afghans have been doing this for the last twenty years. The term ``Pakistan`` and ``Pakistani`` has no credibility in the world. The world did not make this possible, but it was the result of the actions of the Pakistanis themselves.
Blaming the entire creation but ourselves will not alter this reality and if we, Pakistanis, wish to change this image of us in the world, then we have to make a clean break with our past and its misguided policies, which has landed us in the present cul-de-sac of our misfortunes. This policy can be reversed if and only if, Pakistanis start becoming accountable for their actions and are held responsible for this deeds or misdeeds.
Pakistanis, do not blame others for what is rightfully your own sins and the result of your own actions; learn to accept responsibility instead of shying away from it and above all, learn to accept the reality instead of pretending to believe in a self propagated myth.
I had been saying this for the last three years and I was ridiculed by many on Chowk, but the greatest threat to Pakistan comes not from India or the war on terror, but from Pakistanis themselves. We are own worst enemies. To quote and paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, ``the fate of the country rests in your hands, my fellow dissatisfied countrymen`` and remember, a house divided against itself cannot stand. Think about it and think hard and in the name of all that is holy and decent to you, stop whining and stop seeking shelter in the house of conspiracy theories. To put it bluntly, the world is not so much against us as it is against our hypocricy, our ignorance compounded by our arrogance and our holier than thou attitude.
The last time I checked, the Saudi Arabians were the custodians of Islam and not us!
This is our last clarion call; there will not be a redemption if we miss this opportunity and unlike individuals, states are mortal; states are not reincarnated in the hereafter - they exist, live and die in the present by their own wits. In the words of Dylan Thomas, we can all rage against the dying of the light or we can gently disappear into the dark night of historic failures, never to be heard again. The choice is our to make and regardless, we have to live with the consequences and this time, my fellow citizens, the American Seventh Fleet`s arrival will have a different symbology.
Ciao
#101 Posted by jay on December 24, 2002 6:43:34 am
Another apologist
`` The Islamic forces in Pakistan are being shrill today, because also sense the inevitable and are becoming desperate to resist the grain. Extermist policies and reactions to circumtances result from a sense of desperation, when all else seems to fail and force and violence is the only choice available to resist the foredained``
The above is from a post by Ferzok. Pakistanis living in pakistan are getting desperate about their condition in pakistan. One goes to the US, a few goes to kenys, thousands come to india to attack red fort, parliment, kashmir. All because they are desperate.
Ferozk, learn it from me, jihad, killing of the kafirs can be practiced openly only in pakistan, the land created for islam. It took 50 years to achieve this, and at last accept it. There is no desperation among the pakistanis, money collected from the mosques, collected from the laskers meet at madrike are the funds that support jihad. There has been no attack what so ever by the jihadists against the rulers in khaki, it is against the ahmadias, shias, the kafirs.
Spare the world the desperation and economic misery of the jihadists, it is pure greed, to get the only reserved seat in heaven.
`` The Islamic forces in Pakistan are being shrill today, because also sense the inevitable and are becoming desperate to resist the grain. Extermist policies and reactions to circumtances result from a sense of desperation, when all else seems to fail and force and violence is the only choice available to resist the foredained``
The above is from a post by Ferzok. Pakistanis living in pakistan are getting desperate about their condition in pakistan. One goes to the US, a few goes to kenys, thousands come to india to attack red fort, parliment, kashmir. All because they are desperate.
Ferozk, learn it from me, jihad, killing of the kafirs can be practiced openly only in pakistan, the land created for islam. It took 50 years to achieve this, and at last accept it. There is no desperation among the pakistanis, money collected from the mosques, collected from the laskers meet at madrike are the funds that support jihad. There has been no attack what so ever by the jihadists against the rulers in khaki, it is against the ahmadias, shias, the kafirs.
Spare the world the desperation and economic misery of the jihadists, it is pure greed, to get the only reserved seat in heaven.
#100 Posted by rsaxena on December 24, 2002 6:43:34 am
re: arjun_m
{Why aren`t Indian muslims required to register? Pakistan = islam and islam = pakistan wont work with a lot of people... }
...ouchhh...this gets many bakistanis realllyyyyy pissed off...and when countries like iraq give outright support to india`s position on kashmir...
{Why aren`t Indian muslims required to register? Pakistan = islam and islam = pakistan wont work with a lot of people... }
...ouchhh...this gets many bakistanis realllyyyyy pissed off...and when countries like iraq give outright support to india`s position on kashmir...
#99 Posted by arjun_m on December 23, 2002 10:16:53 pm
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