Beynaam Badshah December 20, 2002
#1 Posted by temporal on December 20, 2002 2:46:26 pm
Badshah:
every country has a right to invoke laws on its soil…i have no trouble with this…now if you have a problem complying you can do one of several things…refuse to participate…like Muhammed Ali refused to cross that line…and then fight the system…get ACLU and others on your side…it will be a long drawn out affair…but if every one refuses there are not enough jails….khair…even away from this ‘civil disobedience’ gesture…you can still go to the courts…
…what i object to is a bit digressionary…this same country …when its agents blatantly violate the laws of other third world countries…
...like storming into private residences without warrants and forcibly removing the menfolks…and accusing them of being al-qaeda agents…come to think of it…almost anybody who is muslim..you, me, others…can be picked up and be accused of al qaeda members…and what is the defence?… if it has four legs and a tail then surely it must be!…in the face of such logic…who is not al qaeda?…
…sure i went to that mosque once…dropped in some coins in the donation box…did attend that annual gathering once…there…what other proof do they need…am branded al qaeda and off to cuba i go…(which is not bad considering the weather here)…but I’d rather go of my own volition...and to a resort of my choice…thankyou!
…as things stand…amreeka can pluck any citizen from anywhere in the world, accuse him/her of being al qaeda and let them prove they are not…
this is not homeland security…this is phobia bordering on paranoia....homeland-paranoia..
rgds,
..t
every country has a right to invoke laws on its soil…i have no trouble with this…now if you have a problem complying you can do one of several things…refuse to participate…like Muhammed Ali refused to cross that line…and then fight the system…get ACLU and others on your side…it will be a long drawn out affair…but if every one refuses there are not enough jails….khair…even away from this ‘civil disobedience’ gesture…you can still go to the courts…
…what i object to is a bit digressionary…this same country …when its agents blatantly violate the laws of other third world countries…
...like storming into private residences without warrants and forcibly removing the menfolks…and accusing them of being al-qaeda agents…come to think of it…almost anybody who is muslim..you, me, others…can be picked up and be accused of al qaeda members…and what is the defence?… if it has four legs and a tail then surely it must be!…in the face of such logic…who is not al qaeda?…
…sure i went to that mosque once…dropped in some coins in the donation box…did attend that annual gathering once…there…what other proof do they need…am branded al qaeda and off to cuba i go…(which is not bad considering the weather here)…but I’d rather go of my own volition...and to a resort of my choice…thankyou!
…as things stand…amreeka can pluck any citizen from anywhere in the world, accuse him/her of being al qaeda and let them prove they are not…
this is not homeland security…this is phobia bordering on paranoia....homeland-paranoia..
rgds,
..t
#2 Posted by GhalibZaman on December 20, 2002 3:54:07 pm
``musalmaan ko MusalmaaN kr diyaa toofaan e maghrib ney
Talaatum haai daryaa hee sey hai, gauhar kee sairaabee``
ALLAMA IQBAL.
tr:
A ``muslim`` has become a Muslim in the whirlwind of the West,
The tossing- turning-churning sea, that sheens the oyster-pearl.
Talaatum haai daryaa hee sey hai, gauhar kee sairaabee``
ALLAMA IQBAL.
tr:
A ``muslim`` has become a Muslim in the whirlwind of the West,
The tossing- turning-churning sea, that sheens the oyster-pearl.
#3 Posted by arjun_m on December 21, 2002 7:50:36 am
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#4 Posted by rsaxena on December 21, 2002 7:50:36 am
{No Norweigiens, no Swiss, no Russians, No Argentinians even.}
...when they routinely start blowing things (and themselves) up, they will be in line too...until then, any rational person would agree there is no reason to bug them...
...when they routinely start blowing things (and themselves) up, they will be in line too...until then, any rational person would agree there is no reason to bug them...
#5 Posted by arjun_m on December 21, 2002 7:50:36 am
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#6 Posted by arjun_m on December 21, 2002 7:50:36 am
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#7 Posted by yusafkhan on December 21, 2002 7:50:37 am
Beynaam Badshah...you are not alone my friend. Many moderate muslims who used to love the west have stopped to think. Not that they turned fundo but I think they have been caught in the middle of this war of civilizations. On one hand there is the fundementalist element which they detest and on the other hand is the new West, with its war on terrorism, personified by the likes of Blair and Bush. God forbid, if the war on Iraq starts I think the moderates will get squeezed from both sides and soon there will be no space left and one would have to chose from the cry of ``you are either with us or against us``.
All these border checks really amount to nothing. The zealous terrorist would not be deterred by finger printing or mugshots. How many illegal mexicans escape via the rio gande? How many Palestinian suicide bombers are stopped by the Isreali`s? even after the savage blockade of the occupied territories. Sooner or later the root causes have to be addressed if sanity is to prevail.
How many people would go to jail, Temporal sahib? who will take care of their familes when they are behind bars? Please be reasonable. Many of the op-ed pages of the leading newspapers in the US have already called for Japanese style internment camps for Muslims if another terrorist attack, similar in scale to the 9/11 attack, took place. I can assure you, not a single terrorist will be in those internment camps, just like not a single Japanese sabateur was in the WWII internment camps. As always the innocents, the moderate muslims in this case, will be the victims - collateral damage!
All these border checks really amount to nothing. The zealous terrorist would not be deterred by finger printing or mugshots. How many illegal mexicans escape via the rio gande? How many Palestinian suicide bombers are stopped by the Isreali`s? even after the savage blockade of the occupied territories. Sooner or later the root causes have to be addressed if sanity is to prevail.
How many people would go to jail, Temporal sahib? who will take care of their familes when they are behind bars? Please be reasonable. Many of the op-ed pages of the leading newspapers in the US have already called for Japanese style internment camps for Muslims if another terrorist attack, similar in scale to the 9/11 attack, took place. I can assure you, not a single terrorist will be in those internment camps, just like not a single Japanese sabateur was in the WWII internment camps. As always the innocents, the moderate muslims in this case, will be the victims - collateral damage!
#8 Posted by ferozk on December 21, 2002 7:50:37 am
I second what T has said and said it with his usual style.
The United States is undergoing a periodic cycle and there is nothing to be overtly concerned about this state of affairs. The United States has always been a xenophobic country. In the final analysis, Muslims who are subjected to this treatment have one choice, whether they like it or not, according to the United States. That choice is that they have to choose - either they are loyal to the United States or their religion; assimilate or be segregated. There is no third option.
The United States is not against Islam or Muslims, but only against those who threaten the American way of life. The Muslims see the United States as threatening their own way of life and the end result is a situation marred by an incompatibility of perceptions and opinions. Who is right and who is wrong only matters to the extent of who makes the rules and who has to obey them.
United States has a right to make its own laws, but the irony is that it has to learn to respect the laws of others if it wishes others to respect its own laws.
Is it a coinicidence that in the last few months, elections in Pakistan, Germany and now South Korea saw candidates with an increasingly anti- American message being elected to office?
Ciao
The United States is undergoing a periodic cycle and there is nothing to be overtly concerned about this state of affairs. The United States has always been a xenophobic country. In the final analysis, Muslims who are subjected to this treatment have one choice, whether they like it or not, according to the United States. That choice is that they have to choose - either they are loyal to the United States or their religion; assimilate or be segregated. There is no third option.
The United States is not against Islam or Muslims, but only against those who threaten the American way of life. The Muslims see the United States as threatening their own way of life and the end result is a situation marred by an incompatibility of perceptions and opinions. Who is right and who is wrong only matters to the extent of who makes the rules and who has to obey them.
United States has a right to make its own laws, but the irony is that it has to learn to respect the laws of others if it wishes others to respect its own laws.
Is it a coinicidence that in the last few months, elections in Pakistan, Germany and now South Korea saw candidates with an increasingly anti- American message being elected to office?
Ciao
#9 Posted by Saminasha on December 21, 2002 7:50:37 am
I agree with Temporal Sahib; keep writing, but also get involved in fighting this monster.
Have you sent this to any American publications?
Have you sent this to any American publications?
#10 Posted by Ralph on December 21, 2002 7:50:37 am
You can blame the west. You could also do the harder thing. Look within and ask why outsiders are coming to see the Pakistani passport as radioactive material. I doubt many of you will take the latter course. It is so much easier to go Iqbal`s way and become a closed-minded fundamentalist. People like the author of the following letter will suffer. But what do you care? There is so much happiness in blaming the west, the Christians, the Jews, the Hindus, the Buddhists.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_21-12-2002_pg3_9
The neighbourhood we live in
Sir: Now we are told that Asif Ramzi was hiding in a chemical warehouse in Karachi. I think we can safely surmise that he was up to no good when the blast put an end to him. However, it seems to have become routine matter that terrorists, local and those belonging to Al Qaeda, are living in and operating from what appear to be innocuous locations in the cities of Pakistan. And we only find out when they are either arrested or blown up.
It is enough to make any one paranoid. Who are the people living next doors? What are they up to? Does the unidentifiable canister that I see a stranger carry into a house on my street contain some sort of an explosive? I am sure that I am not the only one thinking like this. Questions such as these surely go through the minds of my fellow countrymen.
NADIR BASHIR
Karachi
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_21-12-2002_pg3_9
The neighbourhood we live in
Sir: Now we are told that Asif Ramzi was hiding in a chemical warehouse in Karachi. I think we can safely surmise that he was up to no good when the blast put an end to him. However, it seems to have become routine matter that terrorists, local and those belonging to Al Qaeda, are living in and operating from what appear to be innocuous locations in the cities of Pakistan. And we only find out when they are either arrested or blown up.
It is enough to make any one paranoid. Who are the people living next doors? What are they up to? Does the unidentifiable canister that I see a stranger carry into a house on my street contain some sort of an explosive? I am sure that I am not the only one thinking like this. Questions such as these surely go through the minds of my fellow countrymen.
NADIR BASHIR
Karachi
#11 Posted by mohar11 on December 21, 2002 8:47:07 am
On the flip side - some food for thought from this article.
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
When will we ever learn?
2.``....Muslim institutions and groups will freely use (and abuse) all the freedoms allowed to them in the West, but hate and despise the liberal civilization that has produced these very liberties. Listen to a Muslim intellectual, mulla or politician and you will hear a litany of complaints and criticism against western sins of omission and commission, past and present. Ask him where he wants to send his children to university, and if he is honest, he will reel off the names of the top American universities. ....``
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
When will we ever learn?
2.``....Muslim institutions and groups will freely use (and abuse) all the freedoms allowed to them in the West, but hate and despise the liberal civilization that has produced these very liberties. Listen to a Muslim intellectual, mulla or politician and you will hear a litany of complaints and criticism against western sins of omission and commission, past and present. Ask him where he wants to send his children to university, and if he is honest, he will reel off the names of the top American universities. ....``
#12 Posted by AAmir on December 21, 2002 8:47:07 am
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#13 Posted by faisaluno on December 21, 2002 11:23:03 am
``what made their country one of the greatest to ever be``
beynaam badshah,
you are not dinesh d`souza are you?
#14 Posted by arjun_m on December 21, 2002 1:40:57 pm
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#15 Posted by Bhitai on December 21, 2002 1:40:57 pm
re:#5 rsaxena
I wonder if your war criminal from Gujarat shows up at an American airport, would he be fingerprinted?
http://www.siliconindia.com/tech/tech_pgtwo.asp?newsno=17997&newscat=Top
NEW DELHI: When American legal expert Rhonda Copelon heard how Hindu rightwing leaders in Gujarat had demonised Muslims ahead of polls there, she was reminded of Nazi Germany.
I wonder if your war criminal from Gujarat shows up at an American airport, would he be fingerprinted?
http://www.siliconindia.com/tech/tech_pgtwo.asp?newsno=17997&newscat=Top
NEW DELHI: When American legal expert Rhonda Copelon heard how Hindu rightwing leaders in Gujarat had demonised Muslims ahead of polls there, she was reminded of Nazi Germany.
#16 Posted by AAmir on December 21, 2002 3:37:28 pm
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