Three Hard Questions and Quest for Their Solution

````Seriously though, the world is not an accident, beautiful though it may be. The beauty and our ability to respond to it are the result of some deeper truth embedded within us that science cannot overtake. It seems futile to reduce life`s origins to a series of convenient biochemical circumstances and I can`t find myself endorsing this monocular view, not with the depth of vision, and understanding, that my two eyes (faith and reason) afford me````(dr ansari)

Seriously -- ansari mian -- the world IS an accident -- the universe is an accident -- it was not meant to exist -- between the matter and the anti matter -- it was supposed to be totally anihilated at its very inception -- by the interaction of matter with the anti matter -- but it did not due to a slight unexplainable excess of matter over antimatter.
The creation of Earth was an accident -- the creation of life on this planet is an accident -

- all precious things are an accident -- u r an accident -- hamidm is an accident -- sameerjb is an accident -- i am sure chowk is an accident:-)

as a scientistist, as a biologist, as a medical doctor, and as a clinician par excellence --

Ansari miaN -- you must have FAITH in your REASON...

```` Maybe we need to evolve some more.```` (dr ansari)

no kidding -- we definitely need to evolve some more -- a few bad mutations -- and a few bad mutants like bush junior with his demented star war toys -- and we will be extinct -- sooner than later --

or do u think we are an eternal species -- more successful than the dumb dinosaurs? -- ( 2 hundred million years!) -

may be we could survive that long -- if we were as linguistically dumb -- as the dinosaurs --

but certainly NOT -- with the crooked intelligence that we possess today -- that allowed us to -- FIRST -- build the weapons of SELF-DESTRUCTION -- before developig the means of SELF-PRESERVATION a little more -- within the span of only ONE HUNDRED years of -- `PROGRESS` --

what a `PROGRESS`!

do we know that right now we have accumulated -- between the the `developed` nations -- and the not-so developed laggards -- so many nuclear weapons -- -- that we can KILL every man, woman and child of the world -- ten times over?

and this is just at -- the dawn of our -- crummy -- 6 thousand year old civilization --

may be we ARE genetically predisposed to self destruct --

it doesn`t look like -- the Ashraful Makhlooqaat that we delude ourselves about -- the `chosen` one --

it looks more like -- Ahmaqul makhlooqaat -- chosen to die a premature death -- like the lemmings...

re #22 Ansari Sahab
You ask :

Were evolution, pure chaos, to rule us we would still be lost in tribal isolation, locked in perpetual conflict for resources and the right to survival, a cancerous instinct that saw the world only through the selfish need to perpetuate itself. Is the world around us like this?. . . . .

Answer can be found in The Origin Of Virtues by Matt Ridley.

You ask :

Seriously though, the world is not an accident, beautiful though it may be. The beauty and our ability to respond to it are the result of some deeper truth embedded within us that science cannot overtake....

Answer to a related question can be found in The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins.

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M Gill -
Great piece. Sorry the Heisenburg Uncertainty was left out of the quandary since it tells us in no uncertain terms, perception of scientific fact remains a psychological matter. That huge/tiny gap between momentum and trajectory, houses the fascinating science of quantum logic, which seems to infer that T.O.E. is a pipe dream. Any thoughts?

freethinker #18 After reading your reply, I searched in vain on google for a general description of the Wiles` solution. I found a transcript of an interview with him on Nova where he talked about how the stepping stone to the solution was a solution he found to a ``conjecture`` posed by two other mathematicians (the ``Taniyama-Shimura conjecture``). And that he found this stepping stone after some other mathematician brought to his attention a link between the T-S conjecture and FLT. I still dont know what the Wiles` solution is, but the process through which he found the solution does seem to confirm the wise saying of one of the greatest mathematicians, Isaac Newton, who said that ``we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us``.
PS: Thanks for the sympathy and appreciative words about the quadricep problem I described in my article on chowk.

Mr. Gill

``Khudaa agar dil-e fitrat shanaas dey tujhh ko
sukoot-e lalaa O gul sey kalaam paidaa ker``..............ALLAMA Iqbal.

From ``Javed kay naam``
upon receiving Javaid`s first letter from London.

tr:(for others` sake)

``If Allah has bestowed His blessings ( talent, aptitude, desire etc) upon you to study fitrat (observe nature) then unlock it lingo and do have a dialogue with the, apparently mute, flower.``

____________________________________________________________
``Sunee hikayat-e hastee tO darmayaN sey sunee
Naa ibtida kee khabar hai naa intihaa maaloom``
-------------------------------------------------Pundit Brij Narayan Chikbusst.

The very fact that not everyone has the yen for pure sciences, especially mathematics, it seems clear that one is definitely bestowed with it. Yes a way to explain it away could be `at the right place at the right time, in the evolution-cycle. But then who bought the ticket for us that we won this lottery? Just questions, just musings , just wondering in awe. Just humbling & prostrating myself in awe of the Unknowable. The little remnant ofa scientist in me admonishes me to always be a bit skeptic and according to its own rules instructs me never say never. By its own tenets Science cannot be an absolutist in its dispensation. The crowning glory of absolute belief shall always be that in the realm of religion. Even an atheist says the kalima, albeit half....La Ilaha (There is no god..). The listener always waits for him to at least pronounce the supermacy of Man (which incidentally also includes the believers who always are in overwhelming majority) :)

Hazrat Ali in his Nahjul-Balagha ( a most awesome compilation of his writings & speeches and a masterpiece of arabic literature---still taught in die-hard sunni AND shia SECULAR curriculum in the entire arab-world. Available evrywhere in most languages) has pondered and expositioned on this subject and few ,since him, been able to surpass that anywhere anytime.

Please peruse of it.
____________________________________________________________
No matter how much one wants to put a spin, it would always boil down to either a `scientific` belief or a `religious` belief.

In my very own way to understand this , in a fusion kind of way--among others, is that Allah is the unknown constant K which the scientists always use to balance out the unknowable. I am aware that this technique or tool has to be applied to work within a closed system to contrain oneself within the unknowable quantas of Space & Time.

As I have mentioned many-a-times I am a simply a dabbler but an avid pupil. Only if someone can explain things to me at my very primary-level.
____________________________________________________________
``Baichaara Pyaada tO hai ik mohraa-e naa cheez
FarzeeN sey bhee posheeda hai Shatir kaa irada``
-----------------------------------------------------------ALLAMA Iqbal.

PS: I sincerely hope that you will continue to expound upon such subjects. CHOWK become very plebian without such material.

Hasan sahab,

Thank you for your reply. You`ve taken me to a discussion I`m ill-prepared for right now. Will try to respond as best I can. :o)

Leaving aside evolutionary mechanics and the fortuitous strokes of pure dumb luck that are said to have produced us, what about us seemingly complete (for we can never be complete with evolution, that perennial tyrant with nimble fingers, replacing a gene here, removing a centromere there) human beings now; how do we explain the moral discipline needed to govern our lives? Were evolution, pure chaos, to rule us we would still be lost in tribal isolation, locked in perpetual conflict for resources and the right to survival, a cancerous instinct that saw the world only through the selfish need to perpetuate itself. Is the world around us like this?. . . . .On second thoughts, maybe you`re right. Maybe we`re not ready to believe yet. Maybe we need to evolve some more. :o)

Seriously though, the world is not an accident, beautiful though it may be. The beauty and our ability to respond to it are the result of some deeper truth embedded within us that science cannot overtake. It seems futile to reduce life`s origins to a series of convenient biochemical circumstances and I can`t find myself endorsing this monocular view, not with the depth of vision, and understanding, that my two eyes (faith and reason) afford me.

Muhammad Asad has written an excellent essay on the relationship between science and religion (The Spirit of Islam from his book, Islam at the Crossraods). If you leave me your mailing address (pediatrishun@yahoo.com), I`d be glad to post it to you.

This has been a rewarding dialogue, Hasan sahab. Thank you.

Khuda hafiz,

Aamir

Regarding Question #2; Does God exist?
The key is to define `exists` .

Anything that `exists` cannot possibly be God. It will fall under the limitations of existence . God cannot be made to fit into the category of existence. He is ultimately Trancendant.
The attributes of God are a symbolic way of speaking of our experience of the Transcendant Reality. They do not define the Real, only our relationship to it. Even the ``Supreme Being`` is such a symbol and not a `thing that exists` .

My dear Aamir miaN -- in that brief post u have packed so many powerful statements -- I bet besides being a keen clinician -- u must be a terrific discharge summary writer..

u write --
``the incredible complexity of the human body (just the variety of calcium transport mechanisms in the renal nephron is enough to stagger the mind;......Contrast this with the simple unicellular zygote, which is where we all started from. It`s bewildering how so much could have gone wrong so many many times and yet it didn`t.``

but azeezum -- it DID -- so much DID go wrong -- and so many many times -- before the final polished product -- as a marvel of biological engineering -- became available to us

it’s all the doing of that -- Mulla’s Nightmare – the Evil EVOLUTION – and its Yajooj Majooj – Munkir Nakeer -- SPONTANOUS MUTATION -- & that SIEVE of SELECTION –

Spontaneous Mutation is the doodler/dabbler -- the mindless creator –

Selection by the environment – is the SIEVE/Chulnee --

it is the CRUEL QUALITY CONTROLLER – that determines -- will this new stuff be -- a best SELLER – ‘FIT TO SURVIVE’ – a winner -- or a loser only fit for the trash can.

so many bad mutations -- with bogus blueprints are made by -- SPONTENAOUS MUTATIONS – that if they survived -- we all will look like -- one eyed Cyclops and hydra headed monsters –

luckily most of them cannot pass the mustard of ruthless, heartless SELECTION by the Environment`s chopping blocks -– are aborted -- and perish without a whimper.

THEN -- once in a blue moon a `good` mutation occurs -- at a `right` time -- with the ‘right conditions’ in the environment --

and its gets picked up like a hot cake -- gets selected for survival and propagation -- because it gives the organism some new advantages over the cruel environment -- and over other competitors -- and it flourishes –

whereas the older organisms that cannot cope with the changed environment – are eliminated – and die.

There are many many more misses than HITS – most of the ‘good’ changes are SERENDIPITOUS -- depend on one in a million lucky CHANCE –

EXISTENCE of both the STABLE inorganic world and the stable organic world -- have come through -- Evolution propelled by -- CHANCE -- by which – a key finds its lock that fits it perfectly -- MARRIES IT -- and starts having more of the `good thing` --

example Water -- produced and propagated by -- the marriage of Oxygen with Hydrogen -- locked in neptual embrace -- in a certain way -- in cerain proportions....

after millions of blind attempts and interactions -- there is one arrow that hits the bull’s eye and -- Walla

If there is -- anything that comes closer to being GOD – it is the phenomenon of – CHANCE –

one might say God is Chance – and Chance is God – thus when we pray we pray for actually the Chance – for the success of `one hit` -- among the many failures – more or less.

Iqbal in his famous couplet -- has put this -- Chance-dependent Rarity of -- Evolutionary Success – most succinctly – if I may take some liberties:

- hazaaroN saal Fitrut/Nature apni NAKAMEE/BEY NOORI pe rotee hai
- kaheeN tub jaa ke hotaa hai chaman mein deedawar paida


ur post was quite a stimulating potion –- Aamir miaN –– thanks and please write more often -- matters scientific besides ur great poetry!


shub bukhair

Excellent article. The existence of God is debated eversince man became aware of it`s surrounding. Through the dark ages, and Renaissance time philosphers/mathematician have put forth several arguments. I happen to came across the one by Rene Descarte`s ``Eight Meditation``.
I personally believe that there exist a higher authority and I/muslims call it Allah.

freethinker

I would like to thank all the interactors who took the time to read my paper and comment on it. There is nothing much that I could say further to elaborate my point. People have devoted their lifetime to debate the question of the existence of God but so far there is no logical proof one way or the other. It is still a matter of personal faith and belief and will probably remain so for yet a long time. That being so, my hope was that this realization might help in diminishing the interfaith tension and hatred to some extent. The logic that `my God can lick your God` is irrational. I was impressed at the calmness and objectivity with which the interactors handled this sensitive question.

In reference to tahmed32`s feedback, I must first express my heartfelt sympathy for the accident that he had. The kind of free-spirited person that he seems to be, he handled it well. He had good time at the hospital and spread his good humour and cheer all around.

The question regarding the proof of the Fermat Last Theorem (FLT) that he raised is a difficult one. I had mentioned in the paper also that Wiles` proof occupied 150 pages. To describe it simply in layman`s lingo is not easy and is beyond me. To be honest, I haven`t read the proof myself. What interested me is the fact that he has provided the proof and not the details of the proof itself. Even if I try to read it, I wouldn`t understand it anyhow. I am not a mathematician although I have used it in my research to some extent. I am out of depth in `pure mathematics`. Many people still believe that there may be a simpler proof of the FLT, the kind of proof that would need simpler mathematics that existed in Fermat`s time. Many others more knowledgable about the intricacies of the FLT however reject this kind of notion.

My objective of including this hard question in the paper was to highlight the single-minded persistence of mathematicians in taming the FLT. Wiles spent much of his productive life in this work. Not many mathematicians understood what Wiles had done. Two other mathematicians who had been working at the FLT were entrusted with the task of checking Wiles` proof before it was accepted. They found an error in it and it took Wiles another year to correct it. Simon Singh`s book on FLT to which Naqshbandi has referred is a valueable resource. I had read this book cover to cover before I wrote my paper.

Regarding GhalibZaman`s comment on prime numbers, Pankaj has given the web page address which provides information regarding an algorithm, and its proof, to detrmine if a number is prime or not. This work has been accomplished by Professor Manindra Agarwal and two of his Ph. D. students.

I appreciated the comments made by AlephNull, DRUMZ, and SameerJB. nasah`s comments are subjective and explosive. As I had said in my paper, there is no proof that a God does not/cannot exist. I do not have any problem if like many others, he does not believe in the existence of God because there is no proof of the existence of God either.

Naqshbandi`s comments are mystical and philosophical in character, as usual. There is a lot of interesting thought in Sufism which again is subjective. I`ve read a lot of Sufistic literature but I don`t find any objectivity in it. I love Rumi`s and Hafiz`s poetry though.

Regarding the Theory of Everything (TOE), although not much was said about it by the interactors, I am on the watch to see when this difficult problem would be tamed. That would not be the end of Physics though as I had clarified in one of my earlier papers on Chowk (End of Physics). The search for TOE is becoming more and more interesting as the time passes. One day, this will also be brought home.

...also faith by definition is just that.
Personally I cannot imagine for a second how God (Allah) CAN NOT possibly exist...
As the Koran (and the Bible) says, ``Blessed are those who have not seen but yet believe...``

**

Also Wittgenstein himself came to the conclusion that philosophy cannot answer such a question as he says in his Tractus Logicus Philosophicus...

The ONLY way to achieve absolute certainty is via a spiritual method...

``My period of retreat had lasted about ten years,148 during which I had innumerable inexhaustible revelations. It will be enough to say that the mystic Sufi follow to an uncommon degree the Way of God. Their behavior is perfect, their Way is straight, their character is virtuous. If to this were added the good sense of the reasonable, the wisdom of the wise, and the knowledge of the doctors of law, could one be sure that this would improve their behaviour or character? Surely not! Every action or state of theirs, their outward appearance and their inward conscience, is illuminated by the flame of prophecy sitting in its niche149 beyond which there is no other light on the face of the earth.

What can be said about such a Way? Its purification consists above all of cleansing the heart of everything which is not God, the Almighty. This begins, not with the state of sacralization which opens prayer,150 but by the fusion of the heart with God`s name, and is completed by the total annihilation of the self in God.151

Even this completion is only the first step with regard to one`s free will and all that one has learned. It is the first step on the Way itself. What went before152 was only the waiting room.

Once one has started on the way, one begins to receive inspirations and visions. The mystics keep vigils in which they even see angels and the spirits of the prophets. They hear their voices and have the benefit of their counselling. From these visions of images and symbols they ascend further to degrees of spirituality which cannot be described. Nobody can attempt to express these states of the soul without failing miserably.

In a word, the mystics achieve a nearness to God which for some can be a virtual in-dwelling,153 total union,154 or fusion155 with God. This is not true, as we have shown in our treatise al Maqsid al-Asna (The Greatest Goal). A person in such a state should say nothing but these lines.156 ``Whatever has happened, I shall not speak of it. Think well about this. Do not question me about it.``
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/gz/md/IIA-02main.htm (from Deliverance from Error by al-Ghazali)

``Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.``-Tractatus, Wittgenstein Online edition..

Gill sahib, I really enjoyed this article of yours. Coming from a physical sciences background myself (though with applications in medicine) I find mathematics and the like fascinating. Simon Singh`s book on Fermat is excellent...

I also am interested in philosophy too and the arguments for/against God and also Sufism (being a murid of the Most High Naqshbandi Order)

You are right that logically (taking logic in its strict Aristotlian sense) God`s existence cannot be proven. Imam Ghazzali came to the same conclusion and suffered a nervous breakdown of sorts as he himself tells us in his autobiography al Munqidh min al Dalal...but his faith in God`s existence never left him and his faith was confirmed and proven through the spiritual path of the Sufis. Thus we can say that there IS a spiritual proof of God`s Existence which can confirm one`s blind faith; yet the path to this proof is long and ardous and full of difficulties--ie. the Sufi Path.
Becoming annihilated in God (fana) is the goal of this path and of Islam.
When one does reach it, in Ghazzali`s words one has as much certainty of the existence of God as one does of the existence of a physical object which one is holding in one`s hands. For then `God` is no longer an abstraction but a Being of which the Sufi has experience of spiritually.

#13

Hasan sahab,

As someone who works with science, I`m sure you appreciate the incredible complexity of the human body (just the variety of calcium transport mechanisms in the renal nephron is enough to stagger the mind; I know, I have to memorise them!). Contrast this with the simple unicellular zygote, which is where we all started from. It`s bewildering how so much could have gone wrong so many many times and yet it didn`t.

God doesn`t need us to worship him. Actually, God doesn`t need us, period. But can we really imagine our own nothingness?

Aamir