Documentarians Hope to Enlighten Americans about Prophet

#120 by stuka on December 27, 2002 7:30am PT
++
Umm retard, democracy does mean rule of the majority. What you have in Pakistan is apartheid, with the minority Faujis
+++

Retarded who doesnt even reads the posts properly or cant digest the fact that Im not from pakistan.

Retarded one who just jumps to what Kofi Annan said or did not say but disregards what is belived all over the world that it is a disputed territory. The UN resolutions may apply or not what is a fact is that the majority kashmiris dont want to stay with India on the present terms.

And what will you say when Mufti Mohhammed Sayeed starts negotiating with the militants and asking for political negotiations just like the Farook Abdullah of National Conference asked.

Retard is one who belives he is right regardless of all evidence available and grasps the straws of what Kofi said or not said about UN resolutins.

Retard is one who cant even take the opinon of migrant Mirpuris(from kashmir across the border)in UK who show no love for India while they would like to be independent of pakistan if possible they surely wouldnt like to go back to indian control.

Retard is one who compares even his shit with what the pakistani shat.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Ali87:

``The world is already smarter on the Bhramin talk..
Just see what the world has been saying on kashmir for 5 decades.. ``


LOL!! YES, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE WORLD HAS BEEN SAYING FOR 5 DECADES????

Kofi Annan told you guys to your face that the UN resolutions were not implementable. Compare the internation opinions on Kashmiri elections with the Pakistani elections.

Mufti Mohhamed Sayeed is a more legitimate ruler of Kashmir, compared to the Jamali led Lota government of Pakistan. At least the ruling National Conference in Kashmir was booted out by the will of the people, unlike the 98.5% referendum results of Mush.

You say:

``What we have in India is tokenism in the name of Democracy. Basically what it is Majority rule by force. ``

Umm retard, democracy does mean rule of the majority. What you have in Pakistan is apartheid, with the minority Faujis ruling it over the civillians and giving danda to your behinds when you create trouble.

#115 by nasah on December 25, 2002 1:57pm PT
#116 by hamidm2
++
The ONLY incredible part to which I object is -- for heaven sake – WHY --5 times a day! -- why NOT -- once a week... for cryng out loud...
++

````my quarrel is not with religion, it is with religiosity ````(hamidm)

exactly -- religiosity -- with its air of moronic superiority -- and stupid IMPOSITION upon others...

+++

Hmm.. like saying that you like Bread provided it is not baked
or saying `` I like dessert not the sweet in it``



Now lets see how the argument goes relogiusity wrong but religion is ok...

and you were talking about moronic... some thing....

what is the religion that you would like .......

some thing convinent.... ``Why not once a week`` why not once a year??

or why not lets worship what ever we like?? Hey the hindus are already doing it.. No worship timings.. No restrictions of where or what to worship it...

Only a few problems you are not comfortable with in that religoin

or why dont you try chirstianity.....

Shop for your salvation once a year.. good for the country as well as for the man.. convinent while bosting the economy..


Like you said that everyone should have right to their fantasies.. (the hindus perfected this until the mulsims came and spoiled their party)

The christians are trying to reach out to such salvation... Survivor salvation on prime time...
or salvation by once being against divorce and now for it.

by being racist earlier and now condemming racisim
or by intolerance of other religions and now peaching peace now
or by covering the legs of tables in case some one may be scandalised to free sex to now the learned wisdom of ``Teen age sex may not be a good Idea`` while teen agers can go about near naked all alone and still expected to restrict themselves..

You may not like various parts of religion or the moronic superiority that you enconuter but do you have any other better answer to it? You are free to not follow every thing as many dont but your consicence is against the logic of not following when you cant...

At least it is honest...

but would you also consider the honesty of those who follow what they can and ask for forgiveness for what they cant while at least beliveing that they will striving to be better....

Perhaps you should be honest enough to understand if there is no one to enforce or at least moral IMPOSITION upon others... there is nothing as the christians have discovered now..

Their present wealth is the only thing that prevents them being made fun of by the whole world.. some how wealth is suppossed to be the proof of all things correct..

````my quarrel is not with religion, it is with religiosity ````(hamidm)

exactly -- religiosity -- with its air of moronic superiority -- and stupid IMPOSITION upon others...

nasah

``The ONLY incredible part to which I object is -- for heaven sake – WHY --5 times a day! -- why NOT -- once a week... for cryng out loud``

.......... i understand your pain ......... it really doesn`t matter if you believe in the tooth fairy or a man who claims to be the son of god .... it is okay - everyone has a right to his or her fantasies of faith ......... but when religion begins to interfere with your life you have to draw the line somewhere ............my quarrel is not with religion, it is with religiosity .....

````Muhammad`s ``Night Journey,`` when the Qur`an says he went to heaven and entered the divine presence -- as historical facts.```` (Daniel Pipes in Jewish Times as quoted by Studebaker)

In the Alice`s Wonderland of world religions -- if Moses can part Red Sea -- at prime time TV -- so can Muhammad -- go on ``Night Journey`` - at prime time -- on a horse with a human head -- meet God -- and come back -- while the door chain of his house is still mving.

For incredible prophets (pbuh) -- all incredibles -- are perfectly credible history --

The ONLY incredible part to which I object is -- for heaven sake – WHY --5 times a day! -- why NOT -- once a week... for cryng out loud...

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

.... i know, i know.......the american muslim is really excited about this ``positive`` and ``unbiased`` documentary about islam which is supposed to set the record straight with christians and jews and other unbelievers, misbelievers and infidels ......... but can you imagine pbs putting on a similar shamelessly biased infomercial about christianity or judaism ..........the attempt to whitewash and gloss over the most obvious defects and shortcomings with lame and fawning excuses was pathetic .......... it might have done more harm than good by providing more anti-muslim fodder to daniel pipes and the fox news ............

.......... only when muhammad and his sahaba are lampooned on saturday night live, like christ and moses have been many times, will islam be accepted as a normal mainstream religion .......... and that, i would like to see !

Sorry to see the article go off the main page - but perhaps the thread can continue elsewhere. I`ve only just now found the time to sit and write - the program on PBS was also watched by 5 of my American friends (with various prior views on Islam).
I think we need to look at the program with the intended viewer in mind: That the program was aimed squarely at the average American viewer (perhaps someone who may be a bit more aware, being PBS watchers) - and their questions about Islam. And the Islam PBS presented was a radically different picture from the distortions the media has focused on (in general).
This program, followed by the Frontline special the next day (and combined with the PBS documentary ``Islam, Empire of Faith``) makes for riveting viewing - according to Dave, my university classmate and neighbour who just happens to be one of those people who had believed the rantings of Falwell et al. Others who watched the program were Veronica (an African-American classmate who had converted to Islam three months ago), Sara, (a dancer extraordinaire) who had converted 4 years earlier, Jim who is a 60 year old ultra-conservative believer of Muslims as `terrorists`, and Marian (Dave`s daughter) - a very intelligent and precocious 13 year old who watched all three programs.
From the viewpoints of these five, PBS has succeeded admirably - all came away with a new awareness of Islam and the Prophet. All had questions - (and our discussions have gone on all week!)
They have interesting observations on some of the Chowk comments (which I brought up) - for example the views on secularism and in particular, the comment by Sameer that ``...Pakistan, Punjabi culture, India-Pakistan neighborly relations and Islam, in my humble opinion, can not win simultaneously.``
Would like to go more in depth, but I`ll wait and see whether this should go on another thread ...

#106 by hari on December 23, 2002 12:48pm PT

++++
Indians in north and indian in east , indians in west and indians in south may not have anything similar, you are right about that. what holds them together is principle of democracy

++++
Now hari you are drooling... Use your sleeve to wipe the forth...

If that is the reason why do you need permit to visit Arunachal Pardesh. And if democracy is the principle(dont know what you guys understand by it) why were the elections rigged in kashmir for decades. For decades the kashmiris were asking for self detrmination ie a choice to be Independent. or to remain with India or to go with pakistan...

Now where does democracy or lack of it in pakistan come into picture... Rather it says about the democracy as implemented by India in Kashmir..

READ MY POST AGAIN about what i say about various areas of India and wether all are held to gether by democracy or some by force.

now such subtle points go past you... Why?? because your whole thinking is blinded by the real or imagined precived humilation on the hands of muslims for centuries. You reserve only hatred of Muslims and in particlar of pakistan.
+++++
Can a kashmiri hindu become pakistan`s prime minister?
++++++

Why dont you ask your self if a muslim can become Prime minister of India? He is not getting your vote I can see that.

Have you forgetten how the representation of Sikhs has been reduced quitely over the last decade to limit it to their population percentage in the ARMY so your argument of merit also is just a lie.

What we have in India is tokenism in the name of Democracy. Basically what it is Majority rule by force. What else can explain how a criminal like ADVANI becomes the Home Minister and next time you vote for Vajpayee remember that he follows Sarvakar who first wrote the two nation theory.

++++

the world is getting much smarter on islamic double-talk.

+++++++

The world is already smarter on the Bhramin talk..
Just see what the world has been saying on kashmir for 5 decades..

Arjun -M

Give it up before you look ridiculous.


You no INS or State Dept.

No body takes you as there spokesman to read your post .


Who knows may be you r a code coolie yourself on About to expire Hib visa feeling lost to return back to unemployment & drudgery of Indian life .With superlative of worst in everything among the tabulation of nations of the world.Mere degree & Ph.D. does not produce infra structure .No roads no hospitals no medicines no transportation short of cattle carriage of Bus & train bogey .....list goes on

Bhagat free, now Sajjan: how politics bailed politicians out
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=15385


Bhagat free, now Sajjan: how politics bailed politicians out


Cases filed after yrs, prosecution’s job tougher


Manoj Mitta






New Delhi, December 23: With the Delhi court exonerating Congress leader Sajjan Kumar today, all the six trials involving the alleged complicity of Congress leaders in the 1984 carnage have resulted in acquittals.

While three of those cases were against Sajjan Kumar, the other three were against his senior party colleague H K L Bhagat.





Besides, the police registered two carnage-related cases against another Congress leader, Jagdish Tytler, but those were dropped even before they reached the stage of trial.

None of the political cases was registered in 1984. The process of registering them began years later following a finding by the Justice Ranganath Misra Commission that the police had refused to record cases against ‘‘any person in authority.’’

The delay proved fatal as it became that much harder for the prosecution to produce evidence which stands cross-examination despite the passage of years. The acquittal of Sajjan Kumar today is a case in point.

This was in fact the first political case to be taken up. The Jain-Banerjee committee, meant to follow up on the Misra Commission’s report, asked the police in October 1987 to register the case on the affidavit of a riot widow, Anwar Kaur, who alleged that Sajjan Kumar led a mob that killed her husband Navin Singh at Sultanpuri in west Delhi in retaliation to Indira Gandhi’s assassination the previous day.

Given its political implications, the case was registered only after a change of regime. The V P Singh Government got the CBI to register the case in September 1990.

Thus, it took almost six years for the first case to be registered against any political leader in the 1984 carnage. The CBI completed its investigation and readied its chargesheet in 1992, by when the Congress was back in power at the Centre.

The case went into cold storage till the BJP formed the first government of the National Capital Territory of Delhi in 1994. It was under pressure from chief minister Madan Lal Khurana that the Centre then directed the Lt Governor of Delhi to give sanction to the CBI’s chargesheet. The trial followed and the CBI, despite the delay and other odds, produced eight eyewitnesses, including Anwar Kaur, to try and substantiate its charge of Sajjan Kumar’s complicity in Navin Singh’s murder.

The first two eyewitnesses, Salawati Kaur and Phota Singh, who were neighbours and relatives of the deceased, withstood the cross-examination by Sajjan Kumar’s counsel. The affected widow, Anwar Kaur, appeared as the third eyewitness.

When the prosecution examined her on March 22, 1999, she reiterated her charge that Sajjan Kumar instigated and led the mob that killed her husband. But, ironically, the case began to slip out of the prosecution’s hands when Anwar Kaur was cross-examined by Sajjan Kumar’s counsel on four days spread over seven months.

In a dramatic turnaround, Anwar Kaur denied having seen Sajjan Kumar in the mob on the fateful day. Worse, she added, ‘‘I had named Sajjan Kumar as I had been told by the police that he was in the mob.’’

At another point of the cross-examination, Anwar Kaur said that the mob did not even attack her husband as he was hiding in their house and that the couple later took refuge in a mosque. She claimed to have lost track of her husband while they were in the mosque.

Anwar Kaur’s contradictory deposition set the tone for the other five eyewitnesses, who too turned hostile. The trial judge, Manju Goel, took no account of the circumstances in which the eyewitnesses turned hostile as she acquitted all the accused in the case for lack of evidence. Instead, the court readily lent credence to the claims made by two Delhi police inspectors who said that in the days following the 1984 carnage no victim ever mentioned Sajjan Kumar’s name. Sajjan Kumar himself produced those inspectors as defence witnesses. The court’s acceptance of their accounts flies in the face of the Misra Commission’s indictment of the police and finding that ‘‘when oral reports were recorded, they were not taken down verbatim and brief statements dropping out allegations against men in power were written.’’

#107 by arjun_m on December 23, 2002 1:11pm PT
hmm hung up about Pakis... some thing personal??
++++
If you dont like the ``cultural ethos``, you are free to leave..the US will give you the opportunity to leave..
+++

In fact I will be soon leaving to the land of relative Unfree ``Singapore``(where Satanic Verses was banned too incedentaly) I really dont like the freedom to be shot at in the parking lot you are welcome to enjoy the local cultral ethos. dont forget to get the autograph from the guy before he shoots you.

#106 by hari on December 23, 2002 12:48pm PT
+++++
How come Pakistan jails ahmedias who recite kalima

make pakistan secular first and then talk about self-determination.
+++++
How do i know ask a pakistani..

+++++
islamic pakistan cannot claim land and people in kashmir because that land of kashmir is also home to
kashmiri hindus, kashmiri buddhists, kashmiri sikhs. if they were under islamic constitution of pakistan they would be automatically be 2nd class citizens by DESIGN
++++

May be ...

but lets do a double check on the DESIGN


In the Earl of Cromer`s (first British Viceroy of Egypt) account of why the British took over Egypt 1882, (1908)
``The population is heterogeneous and cosmopolitan to a degree almost unknown elsewhere. Although the prevailing faith is that of Islam, in no country in the world is a greater variety of religious creeds to be found amongst important sections of the community.``


It is not that such information is not available even a sample reading of Indian History gives lie to what you guys propagate about Islam. So why exactly do you repeat the same arguments over and over again in each and every post regardless of the topic. An answer could be found in the hate that you harbour for Muslims while appearing to be reasoning and civil.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#96 ali87

Indians in north and indian in east , indians in west and indians in south may not have anything similar, you are right about that. what holds them together is principle of democracy.

The problem with pakistan`s claims or for that matter any islamic nation claim to land and people is simply this: islamic pakistan cannot claim land and people in kashmir because that land of kashmir is also home to
kashmiri hindus, kashmiri buddhists, kashmiri sikhs. if they were under islamic constitution of pakistan they would be automatically be 2nd class citizens by DESIGN. it is one thing to be discriminated against by individual but another matter for the state to discriminate as OFFICIAL POLICY as it happens in Pakistan.

How come Pakistan jails ahmedias who recite kalima? what makes you state do so against an individual`s right to recite whatever they want?
Can a kashmiri hindu become pakistan`s prime minister? can a pakistani hindu become pakistan`s president?

make pakistan secular first and then talk about self-determination.
an islamic nation by design is non-secular and discriminates against non-muslims as OFFICIAL policy and design. just remember that.

the world is getting much smarter on islamic double-talk.