Documentarians Hope to Enlighten Americans about Prophet

...whatever...who cares...i doubt hardly anyone other than a bunch of romairs sat around watching this stuff...the iron chef episode running at that time on the food channel was far more interesting (and probably truthful)...

Sameer,

The Frontline episode followed through; it was a nice counterpoint to Tuesday`s program. I understood the program to highlight the debates of sharia interpretations and how women are organising to force interpretations to be reformed. Grassroots work at its finest- could we not see these examples of how women will hold archaic interpretation and its apologists accountable? Did anyone catch the woman lawyer who broke the functions of patriarchy down? This the argument that Islamacists cannot refute in any reasonable manner.
While I agree that the cases they focused on were not as brutal as some that we know, it was a good begginer`s survey.
And you are right about many of the men in this program; esp. Mr. Daoud; a complete idiot.

Them and us

Yasmin Hai grew up in a multicultural suburb of London, where Muslims and Jews, with so much in common, appeared to live happily side by side. So what went wrong? Why have some of her old friends` attitudes changed so much? And were things really so perfect then? Twenty years on, she returns to her old haunts in search of answers

Friday December 20, 2002
The Guardian

After years of exile, my father`s most cherished possession was his typewriter. It was a grey Smith Corona manual from the 1950s. The keys had been rubbed clean by the many hours spent on it. He would disappear into his study and close the door firmly behind him. I would stand outside and listen to the furious sound of him tapping his latest letter to the Times - ``the great Times of London``, as he always referred to it.
At the time I didn`t know what he was writing in those letters, but I knew they were important to him. The next morning, he would comb through the letters page, always optimistic. But whatever he was looking for was never there. Disappointed, he would quickly turn back to the front page.

My dad was a political man; a socialist from Pakistan. But he was a Muslim, too - not that religion interested him any more. Life in England was what interested him now.

We grew up in a north-west London suburb - Zadie Smith land, semi-affluent and multicultural, Muslims and Jews living happily side by side. We soon became familiar with our neighbours` ways, but for my dad, the Jews always held a different sort of fascination. And he wasn`t alone.

Our house was always filled with his friends heatedly discussing world events. They spoke of revolution, liberation and marxism. But despite their politics, they were all Asian versions of the perfect English gentleman: so desperate for their lives here to succeed. Maybe that`s why they were so interested in the Jews.

For men seeking their place in this new land, the Jews were the ultimate immigrant success story; people who had come to Britain with nothing and, through study and hard work, had prospered. My dad and his friends were so impressed by them that I remember the pride they took in recounting the similarities between Muslims and Jews. How many times did I hear that Jews, like us, didn`t eat pork? They were kosher, we were halal; they too circumcised their boys; their prophets were our prophets; and so the list went on. But soon I realised that the relationship wasn`t totally rosy. I quickly learned that there were some unpleasant references to Jewish people in the Koran. But my dad told me either to ignore those, or put them in context - and that if I really wanted to understand the relationship between Muslims and Jews, I only had to look at how the Muslim empires had embraced and protected the Jews while Christian Europe had persecuted them.

The world is different now. Just the other day I opened a newspaper and an anti-Semitic rant from a Muslim screamed out at me. Granted, these were, as always, the rantings of an extremist, but the truth is, whenever I discuss Israel with otherwise reasonable Muslim friends, I know I am likely to hear unsavoury remarks about Jews. No one cringes. No one is embarrassed. It seems it has become acceptable to speak like this. So why has it all changed? Weren`t we all brought up revering Jews? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

I go back to my mum (my father is no longer alive). I have to be reassured that my memories have not just been imagined. She still lives in the same house, though since my dad died, Islamic mementoes have appeared on the wall. She is not terribly supportive of my quest. She believes that anything to do with Jews and Muslims today spells trouble.

I recall the day when a letter arrived for my father from the Times. The great Times of London! I must have been about six. We were all excited, especially as the letter looked so official and important. It was a response to a letter he had written to them on the situation in Palestine. We gathered around as he carefully cut open the envelope. He began to read with great pleasure. Then his expression changed. Devastated, he left the room. I didn`t understand at the time, but later I discovered that when my dad had inquired as to why they had not published the letter, he was told that the content was ``anti-semitic``.

My dad an anti-semite? Since when? That is what I have thought many times over the years. But then I stop. Suddenly I want to find the letters. Were they - could they possibly have been - anti-semitic? But my mother doesn`t know where they are.

I refuse to give up. I decide to contact some of my dad`s ``political`` friends. Maybe they will know the secret of what was in those letters - and in my dad`s heart. Only one of the political men is left: Uncle Jilani, an ex-student of my dad`s. As I enter his house, I see that Islamic books line his shelves and Islamic paintings hang from the walls. We sit down. I nervously inquire about my dad`s writings to the Times. ``Were they anti-semitic?``

My uncle dismisses the question out of hand. ``Don`t be ridiculous!`` he scoffs. ``They accused him of being anti-semitic because he was criticising Israel. He was anti-Zionist. But he, we, always spoke highly of the Jews.`` He starts to cite the similarities between Jews and Muslims. ``Like us, they don`t eat pork.``

I know what he means: the old anti-Zionist/anti-semitic chestnut - but it sounds too simple an explanation for the letter`s devastating verdict on my dad. I think hard. Maybe it was the way my dad wrote, with little regard for Zionist sensibilities. But then he had come from a world where people weren`t reeling from the guilt over the Holocaust. And Jewish rights to collective self-determination - expressed through Israel - came second to the fact that those same rights were being denied to people from his part of the world, too.

Then it suddenly occurs to me that part of the problem is that the Zionist discourse and our understanding of anti-semitism have essentially been constructed in response to western prejudice. And that the Muslim attitude towards Jews had been shaped by factors very particular to their own history and experience.

I turn back to my uncle. How does he feel about the Jews today? I am not prepared for his answer. ``Today when I meet someone Jewish, my first reaction to them is: `Are they anti- Muslim? Do they hate me? Do they want me dead?`` I look at him, shocked. If my dad were alive, would he have come to feel the same? ``When you see what they are doing to the Palestinians, what else can you feel?``

I approach Dr Ghuyas Uddin Sidiqui, leader of the Muslim Parliament. I am not expecting him to appreciate my concerns - but I am wrong. First he sets me straight. ``The British media might not report it, but we have always condemned anti-semitism - even when it is from our own extremists.``

I apologise. But I am still not satisfied. I tell him that I feel uneasy that anti-semitic attitudes - conscious or not - have slipped into everyday British Muslim parlance. ``True, but in this country,`` he explains, ``you are dealing with a Muslim community that is not very sophisticated in dealing with politically complex issues. They end up expressing their frustrations over Israel and Jews using clumsy rhetoric, unaware of the offence they are causing. But I know that is no excuse and we will be looking to address this. You know, the same misunderstanding is happening in Israel and among Jewish people too - about us Muslims.``

That I know. But now something else is troubling me: those Muslims whose attitudes towards Jews are not dictated by politics, but by their extreme or fundamentalist interpretation of the Koran.

I decide to approach one of the Muslim extremist groups. Of course, the discussion does not go where I want it to. Instead, I am soon locked into a theological debate with a very articulate spokesperson. He is not budging. ``But sister,`` he replies when I press him on his anti-semitism. ``Sister, if it says in the Koran that Jews are liars, then they are liars!``

``But you`ve taken the quote out of context!`` I say, remembering what my father once told me.

``Sister, the Koran is not up for interpreting.``

I decide to contact my old friend, Ahmed - a one-time raver, but today a Muslim fundamentalist. Maybe he can help. He once had Jewish friends - he even fancied Jewish women. So how does he feel toward them today?

As I wait for him, I realise I haven`t seen him for a year. When he arrives, he is as stylish as ever. He has grown a beard, which on reflection quite suits him. I soon relax. And then I start explaining my quest. How does he really feel towards Jews today? Ahmed is emphatic. ``It says in the Koran that it is forbidden to be close to Jews.`` I squirm. ``Jews more than anyone else?`` ``For me, yes. They insulted our prophets.`` ``So you can`t be friends with Jews any more?`` ``The Koran says you can still be friends and work alongside them - which I still do - but you just can`t get closer than that.``

It seems that Ahmed`s interpretation of the Koran now totally dictates how he feels and behaves towards everything, including Jews. ``What about Israel? Should Jews have a homeland?`` I have already started writing down ``No`` when Ahmed surprises me.

``Yes, of course they should. That is not our argument with them. We say, `Have your homeland, live with us - but don`t oppress us.` And more importantly, we shouldn`t be treating Jews as scapegoats.``

It`s the last thing I expected to hear from him. ``If there are problems in the Muslim world,`` he continues, ``it is because we have lost our way, we need to look to ourselves.``

His answer throws me. Is Ahmed an anti-semite? It suddenly feels too reductive a term to describe his fundamentalist-inspired attitude towards Jews. Or even where he stands on Israel. I think hard and realise that, no matter how much I want to explain his anti-semitism away, he is still an anti-semite.

``You know Ahmed, you are an anti-semite,`` I finally say to him. ``I suppose I am.`` ``And that does not worry you?`` ``No, because I know I do not hate them. The Koran says... ``

How had it come to this? As Ahmed speaks at me, I sit there thinking: what would my dad have made of all this? More importantly, what would he have made of the fragile situation that has come to be between Jews and Muslims today? And then I realise maybe he had guessed it was coming.

It was raining hard the night my father died. But we still decided to brave it and go for a walk. I noticed he was looking preoccupied and depressed. I asked him what was wrong. ``The intifada,`` he replied. ``It`s only going to get worse - there is no turning back.``

Looking back, I sense he felt helpless. How could he help? How could his voice be heard? He had given up writing a long time back. But then I think he also felt frustrated. Perhaps it was what he had always feared - the intolerance and misunderstanding. The kind of intolerance that today allows Ahmed to say that he is an anti-semite, and the kind of misunderstanding that caused my father - who so respected his Jewish ``cousins`` - to be accused of anti-semitism. Now I see he knew where it would lead us; all of us.

My mum called last night. She had finally found one of my dad`s letters. I immediately rushed over to see it. The letter did indeed contain a fierce criticism of Israel, but among its 450 words, I could only find one reference to Jews in it. It described Jews as ``the Jewish immigrants from Europe``.

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Subject: Re: MUHAMMAD: LEGACY OF A PROPHET - Watch On PBS Wed., Dec. 18, 2002... Random and some no so random thoughts on December 20, 2002!

I was most disappointed for not having been able to see the movie after being run into so much hype about it on the Internet.

We get the PBS from Detroit which showed on the 18th the `Best of the
fund raising Programs` while not raising funds.

The result was a star studded evening of the Brothers Four, the
Kingston Trio, Peter, Paul and Mary, and such.

Having seethed inside for an hour or so boycotting the Beetles`
generation I began enjoying the music of my own younger days, at
which time I noticed that the show was almost entirely devoid of
fund-raising breaks and, secondly, at the end of every presentation
the response was a well-deserved standng ovation-- and a prolonged one at that.

The other thing that attracted my attention was the fact that all the
audience were of middle to senior middle age. My feeling was that they
must have been the baby boom products and related themselves to the
period songs hence they also sang with such a fare, well without being `heard` [audible as a chorus!]: Nostalgia was at work. They were enjoying it; as was I! And we were, all, oblivious of a world that existed out there.

At that time a diabolical thought occured to me, something that I am
not usually given to very much:

I have lived in the Detroit area. The area boasts the largest
concentration of Muslim poulation in the United States but more than that it also boasts the third largest [and the wealthiest] concentration of population of Jews on Earth [srael and New York being number one and two respectively!]. Did they have any thing towards the bypassing of this event on the 18th, I thought?? I am not a suspicious person by nature, nor given to ``conspiracy` theories of explanation as a rule, but politically tense times make our minds run on strange trajectories!!
Besides, I do not like Sharon! What is a body to do?

Yes the PBS documentary was soft , but i guess with so much hard hate oozing out of the idiot box, some thing which shows muslims in a better light, as HUMAN is needed.
As for the slaughter of the 700+ jews which was treated SOFTLY ( its that word again).
THE detailed version of the account is still much milder (if one can use such a word with regard to the slaughter of 700+ men.)
As it goes the battle was of khandaq, the muslims or rather Yathrib(including non muslim allies) dug up a trench around the city except for those places where the fotress like walls of some jewish homes stood.
The trench being hastily dug was narrow in afew places where it could traversed by riders. In short it needed to be guarded 24 hrs , man power with declining rations was stretched thin. In this comes the news that jewish tribe with houses which formed part of the defence (where there was no trench) was having some sort of deal with the enemy. MEn had to be pulled from guard duty to patrol the city street to watch out for the enemy, duty hours had to extended.
The weather turned bad the seige was lifted, What is to be done of the jewish tribe, Of Aws & khazrij, I think the jews had an orginal treaty with the Aws, so the leader of aws was called to give judgement on them, the leader had suffered an arrow wound in skirmish while guarding the trench , the wound had become septic & he was sure of his death . the leader said that he would give judgement on one condition that it should not be refused or modified . what the judgement was we all know.
Harsh yes, but by what standards, those of 7th century arabia or of 20th century where we have the atomic bomb dropped twice, napalm tokyo in a grand air raid , the highway of death in the gulfwar, Vietnam, bangla desh,palestine, holocaust, east timor , kurdistan boy the list has just started Heck! jhalian wala bagh was much worse.
I guess it was harsh by 7th century standards.
Then again Mohammed was a prophet , but the God of Abraham has been a cruel one on many a ocassions !

UMAIR: and all other proud and walking-tall Muslims

AGARCHAY BUUT HAIN JAMA`AT KEE AASTEENON MEIN,
MUJHHAY HAI HUKM E AZAAN, LA-ILAHA-IL-LILAH
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarishke chashme Muslim mein hai naisaN kaa usar paidaa,
khaleel Allah kay daryaa mein hongay phir guhr paidaa

Kitaab e millat e baizaa kee phir sheerazaa bndee hai,
Yeh shaakh e Hashmee krnay ko hai, phir brg o br paidaa

Navaa pairaa ho aye bulbul, kay ho teray tarrannum sey,
Kabootar kay tan-e khaakee mein, Shaheen ka jigar paidaa

Ugar usmaanyoN pr koh e ghum toota tO kyaa ghum hai,
Keh khoon e sad hazaar anjum sey hotee hai sahr paidaa.

____________________________________________________________

romair

``Some of us find Karen Armstrong more interesting.....Are we extremists?``

...... no you are not an extremist - you are simply an insecure little muslim boy seeking acceptance and approval from an ex catholic nun who runs around telling people that allah and the father are one and the same person and that he is all knowing and loving and kind and did not have anything to do with small pox and polio and that he does not kill innocent little children and that he did not create monsters like osama and trent lott ...............i am sure you also like old white fools like naom chomsky because they make you feel a little bit better about yourself .............

hamidm #55: Yes, you missed another torturing two hours of perpetual whining from Nigeria to Malaysia. Everybody is obsessed with defining what it means to be Muslim, living as Muslim under Islam.
Oh well, there were couple of good looking southeast Asian Muslim girls. All US Muslim men and women were overweight, hiding their obesity in loose Islamic attires.
One little African American girl in NY said it best when asked about steroetying Muslims in America. She said: ``Muslim women are obese, uneducated, not working, hijab wearing and having several children``.

I must say that I liked most of what I saw in this program.
Besides being a background into the life of the Prophet (PBUH), this
was also an attempt to re-humanize the Muslims living in the United States.
A very difficult task since the SOB`s that carried out 9/11 and the mainstream media have since presented the terrorist model to our neighbors and co-workers with a devastating effect.
My thanks to all of those that were involved in this effort.

Ras

.........am i the only one who watched barbara wawa and hte ten most fascinating people ( which included ozzie ) instead of watching this show? ...... did i miss anything? .... seems like i did ....

I thought the program was very well done. I had mentioned the name of Karen Armstrong, on this site, a while back, as a good resource. I have always found her writings to be quite interesting. She was one of the main presenters.

Programs like this will not appeal to people on the two extremes of the spectrum, i.e. the mullah brigade, and the brigade which is fed up of Islam, yet wants to leverage it gain influence by ridiculing it. This program was too mainstream and non-controversial for them. It presented Islam for what it is, i.e. a way of life, by highlighting the way of life of Prophet Mohammad. It showed a group of successful Muslims (with references from non-Muslims), who are living comfortably in the Western society, while simultaneously being comfortable with their religion.

There will always be people who are unsatisfied unless they disagree with something. They need to find a negative in everything. They are habitual debators, even when their is nothing to debate about. They will want to argue about whether someone covered every part of his fingers when performing wazoo. At the other extreme, they will want to find faults in anything that Muhammad did.

I think what is needed are more middle of the road people, like the ones presented in this program, who are happy with what they have in religion. Who have been able to live comfortably in any society, while following Islam. Who are not always being nit-picky trying to elevate Islam or trying to put it down. It was good to finally see such people on television, after seeing the mullah brigade and the Rushdie/Taslima Nasreen brigade for so long.

If people can be Muslims and live comfortably in any society, then I think they have reached a far higher plane and are far better adjusted in life, than people who are always irritated by the fact that others follow too much Islam or not enough Islam.

In my opinion, Islam needs people like those shown in this program to take the leadership positions, and define the debate on Islam.

Good job, PBS.

Hamidm2 #30: Some of us find Karen Armstrong more interesting.....Are we extremists?

Hydra,

I dont actually read anything you write anymore....just letting you know.

#29 by pmishra2 on December 18, 2002 10:32pm PT

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Is a ``Open Mind`` one that accepts your take on every matter??

I clearly said that I have no problem in any critique of Islam or Muslims. What emerges from you many posts is not critique, there is no reasoning, No examaining the various alternatives. Your way seems to be more like I dont like this paritcular thing therefore I have the right to condemm each and every aspect of Islam and muslims. You gave me the luxury to respond like you do.

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What exactly is this ethical system? Is it defined some where or is it some thing that you manufacture as you go? I dont deny that Hindu culture has given rise to many excellent Texts and in the gita and some more recent texts there are excellent ways at looking certain issues. But the problem comes when you try to look at it as a encompassing whole way of life and practices.
Then you see the immense contradictons which give rise to many abhorrent practices which are still accepted my the majority. My point is that there are simply too many contradictons and flip flops in it.
So you accept some thing a thousand years back and then not 500 years later and then again another five hundred years later. All the while there is no coherrent reasoning.
With this back ground you want to paint the whole of Islam with a negative brush??
Critique is ok but bashing is not. So give the reasons for crituque point out better ways if you have in mind or in your religon. That is critique.


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Yes Traditions you are right,
Like the treatment of women by muslims. Are these just cultural traditions being followed or are the in the sprit of what Islam outlined and what the Prophet advised.
Like the tradition of not questionig the Ulemas.
Even an examining of the various Sharia and their implementaion in todays socitey. how they uphold the liberal message of islam against the present day social organisation.
But if you mean by re-examining throwing out the basis of Islam then I dont accept it.
What you and many christians are doing is trying to project your dissatisfaction with your religion on to muslims.

If you examine both Hindusm as well as Christianity you will find that there are too many inherrent contradictions for any socitey in any period of time including our time. Which is why your socites had to manufacture various way out of the Illogic contained in them. But that is your story you are welcome to look at it any way you like and make or abandon principles any time you like for whatever reason you like.

If you have a point about certain Islamic issue/tradition/practice you are welcome to make it but give the reasoning behind it and what alternative you have or what it should be.

<< The muslim inability to accept Mohammed`s actions as defined by his era etc. will always be a major issue for non-muslims.
>>

Let me assure you Mishraji we are quite sizeable in number varied, in culture and location and dispite our present economic and social condition are not going to abandon anything to please non-muslims. And dont give me any dire predictions as to what will happen if we do not. Just check the holes in your boat before you do that.
Perhaps it would be judicuous to get off your high horse and come down to earth and you will be able to see that there is much to share with us despite all the animosity on both sides.


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I have given my opinon about ``Warlordism`` in my earlier post. Dont wait for any acknowlegment if you want to approach Islam what you need is a open mind and a clean heart(find that in the gita. It is there how to go about it-- im assuming you follow it). It is a leap of faith I agree, but do a more comprehensive reading of the history(from all sources)of early Islam put yourselves in Muhammeds(PUBH) place then ask your selves if his decisions were wrong or right.

I have done it and come to my conclusions. It is up to you to do your own work.
In my view and most muslims view Islam does not put forward pretty principles which cant be followed in real life neither does it take refuge behind convulted pschyogical reasoning to justify a tough decision.

Which means what exactly, that you support it?

How about carpet weaving and jasmine bracelet child vendors at the intersections of Karachi highways?