Documentarians Hope to Enlighten Americans about Prophet

I just watched the documentry. Very emotionally charged...but then again I am a muslim. No religion preaches vilolence, murder, rape, injustice etc...and the very fact that most religions evolve over tiem goes to show how truly ungiodly they are. The only idea Islam really needs to sell is the belief in one god (in a time where the belief of god is in question...what a paradox to the time when Islam was introduced), but as far as I am concerned most things are same all over...its called humanity.

#18 by pmishra2 on December 18, 2002 8:41am PT
MishraJi mana ke hum angrazee me baat karte hain but it does not mean that you have to repeat the same propaganda terms.

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So a American Civil war Leader is called ``Militia Leader`` and an Afghani in a similar positon is called ``Warlord``.

And what term do you have for Rama?? King?? Not that he is historical figure.

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Dont delude yourself on that. Hindu religon has changed quite a bit over the time so that now you can sit and pontificate about Islam.
Remember
Sati?
Horse Sacrifices by kings?
Animal Sacrifices with Vedic rituals?
Human Sacrifices with Tantra?
The Taboo about crossing the Samundars?
Men and Women going almost naked till 14-15 century and as late as 18th century in Kerala?
Prostitution in the name of Devdasi system practiced in most temples till a last century, Still practiced in Northen Karnataka (hmm.. those UnCultured Madrasis....)?
.....This could be long list but Ill end here....

There is a very long list of things you will realise over time that you need to remove.
Will you remove the worship of the Shiva Linga? Will you stop pouring milk on the Shiva ling (Pennis to the Uninitated)+ Parvatis Yoni(Vagina to those who may not know?)to symbolise the Semen (and what else??)?

Will you go the Arya Samaj way who advocated removal of Idol Worship and going back to the Vedic way (Only problem is Vedas are also full of Illogic)

Is this why you say ``great universalistic hymns and passages from the vedas and the upanishads`` because you have to discard those which are not ``universalistic``


When you finally discard all those things that you find offensive from time to time you will find that you take the same position as Islam.


Now some may object to this post being offensive and not conductive to harmony. I know that it is bad manners to offend others religous sense. But lets be clear this is what is the alternative prespective looks like from the Likes of Mishra.

Im not saying that muslims and thier religon is not open to crituque but lets have a more encompassing discussion. When people criticize just for the sake of criticizing then they are also opening their viewpoint up for dissection.

FOR ALL MUSLIMS
& also those who are in-transit towards Islam.

Must visit this site. Good things are already happening. Sign this petition. Muhammad Ali (champion of Islam) and Karen Armstrong (promoter of Islam) have already endorsed this. Read their comments and those of other well-known muslims in US.

PROSPECT. PROMOTE. PROSPER.

http://www.bridges.tv/Petition/petition.html

#24 Urstruly

Thanks.
I appreciate that you do understand the reasons. There IS a cultural chasm. Some stuff is not meant for `modern` plebeians.

Ghalib Zaman

That was a pleasant surprize; I was hoping a translation in English but you chose hindi - good. The English translation of first couplet is also good - I was thinking more on the lines of ``self-respect`` than the ``self-realization``. I dont think English has an equivalent word for Khuddi. Even ``self-actualization`` does not deliver.

#20 AmericanExpress

Your comments indicate your deep ignorance about Hinduism, and, indeed your own traditions. Ram and Krishna are in no way or form ``prophets`` and this concept is completely absent from all the indic traditions (jains, buddhists, sikhs,...).

The concept of a prophet (a privileged messenger from God) is peculiar to the traditions that originate from Judaism.

But dont confuse yourself with all this information, just go with what the neighborhood mullah tells you.

You can soft-soap this stuff all you want but as long as muslims cloak the political and military actions of Mohammed with a universal narrative, most reasonable people will react with concern to many aspects of Islam.

Mohammed`s actions against his opponents were no different from those of many warlords of his time. Until muslims come to an understanding of this aspect of their tradition, even people who do appreciate the other unversalistic traditions within islam (e.g., equality of all male muslims, strong communitarian ethos) will continue to have issues with islam.

This is no different than the role of caste with Hinduism. Until hindus completely remove caste from the modern understanding of their traditions, all of the great universalistic hymns and passages from the vedas and the upanishads cannot rescue them from this central disability.

In this sense, this project does not make much of a contribution. It will be seen correctly by most people as a form of inward-looking propaganda.

Banjaara #13

qarz-e-hasna zakat fund sae nikaltae rahae
uss ki badaulat hus`n ka sadqa utartae rahae
mullah siva na koi ka aik raag alaptae rahae
paan khaya, beeRi pee aur khanstae rahae

aql-o-fehm ka dushman, mullah siva na koi
mazi se jiss ka bandhan, mullah siva na koi
karobaar-e-lootmar ki, ik san`at ejaaad kee
allah siva na koi ka hasil, mullah siva na koi

Richard,

You should have emphesised the irony of the movie, it is produced by a convert married to ...( I did not bother to read)..with the intention of explaining what is the true meaning of islam to the world.

It is very funny that this movie did not come from saudi arabia, or for that matter from pakistan, a country created for islam.

The fact is what the nmovies shows is Macdonalds Islam, not the asal stuff. For the asal stuff that moves million to sacrifice their life on the islamic ideal of jihad, I would rather listen to asghar released through a highjack operation and welcomed by the pakistanis.

This movie as important in understanding of islam as reading of american constitution to understand mi-lai massecre in Vietnam by the american troops.

oops #13
last verse to read as:
jug mandir mandir mein moorat,Allah siva na koi

re: urstruly

{It takes months and even years to build a bridge, but it takes few seconds to demolish it. On one hand the efforts of some moderate Americans to understand Muslims and Islams are commendable but on the other hand one should keep in mind that Jerry Falwells, Pat Robinsons, and Rush Limbaughs are only the idiots who have access to the microphones; what about thousands of churches, ministries, monastries, and seminaries who are propagating anti-Muslim hate at this very moment as we speak; especially when anti-Muslim bigotry is being legislated, being legalized, being enforced at this very moment who is going to save the bridge? }


...all the more reason for you to put your ass on pia and get the fcuk out of here...

#13

Thanks for the suggestion.

THe diction of the original one is very unique within urdu parameters as well. Please read that l with special attention to commas. A lot of urdu readers do not read it properly & therefore do not understand it as well.

[ The secret of self-realisation (IS) : La....
Self-Realisation is sword, its keen-edge (IS) : La.....]

You get the feel?

#2
Now I know why Moollah Omar didn`t want his pictures taken! He didn`t want to get captured while he got the rest of the taliban street cadres got slaughtered by daisy cutters. Smart dude.

#10
Masha Allah. very well done. May I suggest a minor change in the first and second verses as :

mun bheetar mein gupt gyan hai, Allah siva na koi
mun bheetar talwaar dhaar daar, Allah siva na koi

ye yug dhoondhay charoN ore khoye Ibrahim ko
jug mandi mandir mein moorat, Allah siva na koi

gar qabool uftad......

Chowk editors and staff: I have a request in light of this upcoming program and the (expected) high number of interacts. I would like to request a reasonable length of time for the article and its interacts to be on the main page. I miss the earlier Chowk format where we had 100-300+ interacts easily. The new Chowk format simply does not let us interact as before (notwithstanding the ones who gamely and loyally continue to do so).
We desis like to mull over debates. We like to discuss at length. We like to ponder pro and con. We like to linger over conversations, as we like to linger over chai and good company. It is only when a few hours pass that we get into the thick of conversations (in the case of Chowk this translates to days and weeks) - but this is what made Chowk so addicting for us! I`d like to think that other Chowkies feel the same. The subject of this article is so terribly important, for so many people and nations, that we cannot afford to shortchange the responses in our small internet space.
I hope to see the program tomorrow and am looking forward to the replies ...

#5 by Urstruly on December 17, 2002 7:41am PT

Ghalib Zaman

You should have translated this masterpiece from Iqbal, as you are good at it. At least do try to translate ``Yeh daur upnay `Braheem kee talaash mein hai `` couplet.
____________________________________________________________

Janab Urstruly sahib:
zarra navazee hai huzoor.
aap kay anorodh pur aap hee kee bhaint hai. jaldee mein kee gayee sehv aur aghlaat pur paishgee muazrat. yeh mehez tafan-un-e tab`aa kay taur pur hai.

[Modi sahib kaa shukryaa kay unhoN ney humein Secularist, Commie, atheist, aur munafique congress vaaloN kay mohabbat bhurray bear-hug sey bachayaa. Four-Nation-Theory ko aazmanay kaa zamanaa aagayaa.

Sheikh sey bay-hiraas miltay hain
humnay tauba abhee naheeN kee hai ]
____________________________________________________________

Munn-bheetar kaa gupt gayaan hai: Allah siva naa koyee
Munn-bheetar talvaar, uski dhaar hai :Allah sivaa naa koyee.

Yeh yug dhoondhtaa phirtaa hai ikk apnaa Ibraheem
saraa jugg hai moortee-mundir: Allah sivaa naa koyee

Dhunn mayaa iss dhartee kaa, bay-jore unmil sambandhh
munn-budhhee kee moortyaaN ye: Allah sivaa naa koyee

tOO ney upnee laaj-dharam kaa kiyaa hai voh beopaar
Dhokaa jiss mein paana khonaa: Allah sivaa naa koyee

Geet amar yeh aisa, jiss kee hurr rut phool phulaaree
Basant mein bhee, ptjharr mein bhee: Allah sivaa naa koyee